**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
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But more importantly, I don't really consider "damage" to be independent of utility. If your champ's damage is zero, he has zero utility because he can't win any fights. Meanwhile a champ that deals a billion unavoidable damage at the start of every fight has infinite utility, because it can do every fight.
Damage has to be part of the equation. You don't necessarily need high damage to have strong utility, but you still have to win the fight. I used King Groot for some of the Variant paths. His damage is pathetic. But for the fights I used him in he had very strong utility because he could basically win every fight while more or less keeping full health. So while he was slow, he was safe to run. He didn't make unwinnable fights winnable, he made winnable fights cheap. But that lack of damage means there's tons of fights where I wouldn't use him in, because his slow damage output makes fights longer, and there are a lot of fights that get progressively more dangerous the longer they last, which makes him unsuitable.
He has no inherent utility that makes him do that fight except for pure damage to overcome the fight. Damage is part of utility
I'd argue that r3'ing a champ for utility is a bad idea because of the variance of utility needed.
I really enjoyed John's insights and thought it was a fantastic stream all and all.
Dr. Zola
I believe his comment was in the context of attack values and damage dealt. Essentially bringing up the damage of a utility champ to that of a rank lower damage dealer. Beyond that, I would also look at how "squishy" a champ is. Stealthy and sparky are good examples. They can do a lot of damage, but aren't going to sustain much block damage. Having the extra health makes sense for their survivability.
I don't believe he meant it as a hard and fast rule. There is obviously nuance and context, in the end ranking up "good" champs will save you units/pots.
R3 Dorm? Nah. R3 Ibom? Absolutely. Mr. Fan? Meh. Moleman? Right-on.
He has made so many tough fights easy for me.
Say your utility champ deals D damage. After rank up he'd deal 1.2D damage. Now you look at your "damage dealer" champ, who deals 5D damage. After rank up he'd deal 6D damage. So he benefits more. Simple math. If 1D is not enough for a fight, you most likely will struggle just as much with 1.2D damage
Vision Aou Duped deserves a Rank 3 6* or not ??
Can pump 100 signatures in him at the moment
Eg. If you take someone that can bench 50kg and double his strength, sure he can now do 100kg, but if you take someone that can do 100kg and double it, then he can now do 200kg. Isn't that better?
https://youtu.be/DvonzuPA85Q
If you go to 11.53, he begins talking about Nick and how since he already has massive damage it’s not as much of a noticeable difference between R2 and R3.
He says that characters who have loads of damage are already good enough at r2 to be useful, all you’re getting is more damage. But someone with a load of utility, but maybe less damage than ghost, may have their usefulness increased MUCH more than ghost would.
He does not mean that you should rank up your Dormamu because he has nice utility and utter awful damage. That’s not the sort of champion he is talking about here. He literally a second later used Falcon as an example. And if you’ve seen any gameplay of falcon, you know he has awesome damage. Way beyond someone like vision or dormamu.
It’s about having that extra bit of damage as an r3 to help them keep up with the likes of Ghost.
If you have an r2 ghost and an r2 falcon, you’d likely use ghost more. If you can only rank up one (I know they’re not the same class but bear with it’s just a hypothetical), and you choose Ghost, with an r3 ghost and an r2 falcon, you’re still gonna find ghost more useful. And you’ll use her more, but ghost can largely do all the fights the same as an r3 or an r2.
What John is saying is, go for falcon, because he’s still awesome, but he benefits a lot more from being r3 than ghost does.
Plucking random numbers out of the air to make a point, let’s say falcon gets a 40% benefit from being r3 in terms of usability, his higher health and more damage means his utility is more usable. Ghost however
gets a 20% benefit, because her being r3 doesn’t mean you use her that much more than before.
The sort of champions John is talking about are not Dormmamu, vision, king groot etc. He means those like Warlock, Falcon, Killmonger, Doc Oc.
Champions who don’t have those huge yellow numbers, they have very good damage already sure, but they aren’t game breaking like CGR, Ghost etc.
I get that, and I don’t necessarily agree with time after time going for the lesser damage champ. I think it depends on your skill, what you want to do in the game, where you are etc.
And let’s just switch Ghost for Nick fury for example. So they’re the same class.
I was in a similar situation to that, I made a post on it earlier in the thread I’m not sure if you saw. But I had an unduped Nick and duped falcon and I went with falcon, knowing that Nick was better. I duped Nick a few weeks later and was so glad I went for falcon first, because now I can use both falcon and Nick, because the difference between them as Nick r3 and falcon r2 is huge, but there’s much less of a difference when falcon is r3 and Nick is r2.
What I’m saying is, with falcon at r3 and Nick at r2. My roster has a lot less holes, than Nick at r3 and falcon at r2. Because I’d use Nick either way
Falcon already has ok damage in evade fights. Where else would you use him? Honestly, I don't know. Ghost can be used for so many fights, and she also can deal with evade fights easily. Choosing falcon over ghost doesn't really make scene.
Same for Nick actually imo. Say you have both r3. There are not many fights to use falcon over furry, and it's not like one rank up bumps his damage a lot. You can probably use even a small boost once you need falcon, those are always expiring anyway
Falcon is meant to be an evade counter sure, but people overlook that locked on gets rid of every single defensive ability in the game, excluding enhanced abilities. That is insane utility. No evades, no rock stacks, no limbo, no thorns. Nothing.
A few observations:
1) For many players hitting/near the TB threshold, there isn’t a “utility vs. damage” choice (see @Haji_Saab ) because their T5c-Roster match doesn’t allow it. Which means all of this is mostly academic. Players instead suck it up and R3 someone so they can unlock the promise of TB spoils (which may be a bit of a letdown—see some of my other posts).
Nevertheless...all this discussion is neat in a “how many angels could fit on the head of a pin” kind of way. Unless you are swimming in 6*’s, you rank the best options you have with the greatest expected longevity at the moment.
2) With a little margin for disagreement, there is likely a set of champs the vast majority of players agree to be “acceptable” R3 candidates. There’s also a set of champs the vast majority would consider horrible R3 choices. If certain champs (using the current featured as example, Green Goblin, Dormammu, e.g.) admittedly don’t offer anywhere near the right mix of damage/utility, the question I always return to is why does the team insist on including them in things like featured crystals? What’s the rationale for a wide deviation, gatcha-style payout in some of the game’s most valued loot box/random prizes? Perhaps MCoC really does run on crestfallen Summoner tears...
3) Going back to the first examples in this thread...Magneto is a bad example of the damage/utility trade off. Doc Ock is a great one that Kabam John should have used instead.
Dr. Zola
https://youtu.be/DvonzuPA85Q
If you go to 17.00 mins in you’ll hear the convo. The convo about damage vs utility is more around the 11.40 mark.
People have just mixed up his two points and taken it to mean that he thinks Mags has bad utility
For me, it’s more nuanced than damage or utility. But I’m lucky to have decent options remaining across most classes, so I’m not the best data point.
A binary approach, however, feels like something a new or less advanced player would use.
Simplistically, the point is dealing damage vs. avoiding damage, but the factors that go into each category are much more varied than that. Hard to get into all that in a YT chat...
Dr. Zola