A semi-hot take on recent content from a mid-game player's perspective

Hey guys, I’m Sal Hudson and I’m here to have a little bit of a discussion with you guys about recent content. But as you might have read from the title, this is from the perspective of a mid-game player. “Why does that even matter?” you may ask. Well, it kinda doesn’t, but I thought that since I’m somewhere between mid-game and endgame that it would make my take interesting to read about.

So what is my take?

I’ll tell y’all in a sec, but first, let’s analyze content released before the backlash. Firstly, 6.4. Niche as hell in some parts. But it was tough. I actually love 6.4 in it’s current state. Not too much changed, besides the absurd attack. However, there are some people that do like stupid attack values! There was also the 7.1 beta (the first one), that didn’t technically get released, but it was scheduled to. Essentially, it was 6.4 with bosses that were even more niche, attack that was even more absurd, and content that was VERY hard.

Then the backlash happened. People expressed that they were pissed about the content design, me included. Then Kabam came and completely changed things for the better!

Or did they?

As of late, the forums have been FLOODED with complaints about the game being too easy. Prior to the backlash, it was the other way around. “The game’s too hard!” “Too restrictive!” etc. Of course there are always gonna be upset people, regardless of the content, but still. So here comes my (somewhat) hot take on the two types of content design:

I think both of them are bad.
Now before y’all destroy me with comments about nothing of relevance, let me define my definition of ‘bad’ in this instance. Both had their major flaws and there’s no arguing that. The old content design was overly punishing imo. Kabam seems to be extreme with their content design, so we seem to only get one or the other. Do we NEED punishing content in game? Hell yes! But if that’s the only content you get, it can start getting frustrating for those just trying to do fun content.

But that statement goes both ways, too.

You cannot realistically tell someone who loved the old game design to just ‘get over it’ because it benefits most players. Neither should the people who loved the old game design tell people who complained about hard content to basically “F off”. But I wanna take some time to empathize for those who love hard content. Since the backlash, what content have we gotten guys? Well we’ve gotten v6/7 and 7.1. I can confidently say that as a mid-game player with slightly above average skill that none of those pieces of content are hard.

V6 was half a cheese fiesta and half of some somewhat specific content. But the hardest fight in the variant was a… stacked version of terrax? V7 is EASIER than 6! Now granted, I had a lot of fun with both, but v7 is a joke, difficulty wise. You might as well just hand me the expo shards now with how tricky it is. 7.1 is similar. I feel like 7.1 was a new beginning, so I will cut slack there. But 7.1 was also too easy. For reference, I did 7.1 expo within a week of release, with like 16 champs at r5+.

Now here’s a question: If a mid-game player finds recent content super easy, can you take a WILD guess at what deep endgame players feel like rn? If you read the forums and actually put yourself in their shoes, you know already. If you’re still in the dark, they probably feel like people who like fun content, pre-outrage. Like the content is just dull and dry and there’s no way to get something that you enjoy. That’s not healthy.

So what do I propose as a solution? And if you’re about to say, “wait for 7.2 or SOP”, don’t. I was on the 7.2 beta. Did every path. Some paths up to 4 times. It’s not hard. I soloed one of, it not the hardest fight in there first try. SOP has been delayed so many times, it’s not even funny anymore.

So anyways, my solution is a BALANCE! An alternation of sorts.

Essentially, every other piece of content that comes out follows each design philosophy. If big content was to drop every 2 months, then every 4 months, each side should get something to satisfy them. For people who love super fun content, that could be a fun variant. For the sweats, it could be summer of pain. If you wanted to take that a step further, each variant could alternate between being fun and being restrictive.

I personally think that’s a good solution, because it could finally end the drought that deep end-gamers are in, while retaining fun content that people enjoy. What are you guys’ thoughts on this? But before I go, one last thing. Let’s use our heads in the comments please. Empathize for both groups of people.
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Comments

  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 929 ★★★★
    Act 5 and act 6 both had first chapters that were significantly easier than 2/3/4. Based on that pattern and the 7.2 beta, there’s every reason to expect the same moving forward.
  • gage201205gage201205 Posts: 468 ★★★

    TyEdge said:

    Act 5 and act 6 both had first chapters that were significantly easier than 2/3/4. Based on that pattern and the 7.2 beta, there’s every reason to expect the same moving forward.

    But 7.1 is easier than 6.1? I explored both around the same time on my second account and 6.1 is more challenging than most of 7.1
    Well yes, of course it was so many things were wrong with act 6. In 6.1 there were 10 paths per level now back to 6, up to 10 or so enemies per lane now back to 6. Also random nodes on enemies along with lane nodes making such specific counters sometimes.. Now they have made it less grindy, and able to use more champions in your roster and everyone says it's easy. PATHETIC. Kabam is moving in the right direction if you guys were dictating the game you would of ran off so many people.

    If you guys want hard content maybe you guys are looking for something like some harder boss rushes or something similar to the maze. Kabam puts the out more often and maybe they can please some of you guys.
  • Ebony_NawEbony_Naw Posts: 1,535 ★★★★★
    I agree. Balance is key, and I think I've been saying something similar. There's no reason to have all the content one way or the other. One thing you could add is that hard restrictive content satisfies the deep endgame players now, and gives players like you something to build toward, so there's really no loss there for anyone.
  • TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Posts: 668 ★★★
    Most people clamoring for hard content don't usually want hard content as much as they want content geared towards teams of god-tier 6r3s -- with, most importantly, rewards to match.

    I honestly don't see it happening; 6r3s were a mistake. Maybe some special event here or there like the recent incursion push or SoP, but the rewards will be underwhelming 'cause Kabam desperately wants to put this genie back in the bottle. Well, unless you're satisfied with a title and bragging rights.

    As a company, Kabam will focus on pleasing 2 groups: the whales, and the majority. Whales are actually easy to please, surprisingly. That leaves the majority -- which for the purpose of Kabam's bottom line is probably mid-to-late tier Cav players.

    Not saying it doesn't suck, but bad design don't usually get better when you double down on it.
  • AMS94AMS94 Posts: 8
    So u had 16 R5 at time of release of 7.1,
    U did 7.1 within a week,
    Ur liking of 6.4 says that u've probably explored it as well, or at least a significant part of it
    And u were on 7.2 Beta as well
    I'm assuming u're probably a thronebreaker as well, or very close to being one
    I'm failing to understand how do u consider urself a mid-game player when clearly u're very well past that level.....???
    Endgame doesn't just mean playing high tier AW, AQ7, & having a lot of R3 6* champs
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 477 ★★★
    I believe the system they have in place now for story content is the right system. Now it’s just time for them to add more difficult node combinations as well as more difficult defenders and bosses to it to find the a good balance between fun yet challenging.
  • MoosetiptronicMoosetiptronic Posts: 910 ★★★
    edited April 16
    So many people play this game for a feeling of progression.

    Those who want dark souls esque content, how about v1 level restrictions, 14k+ attack, every month with act 7 health pools, global "psychic true strike" (bye ghost and quake), a nightmare mode of cav EQ and you only need one pass through, there is an orange title for completion and purple for exploration and no other rewards.

    Msd, bero, swedeah and others would do it.

    AND they would do it, for just the bragging rights and title.
  • KoopaKrusherKoopaKrusher Posts: 70
    I'm still waiting for them to announce another difficulty for variants, like deviant difficulty or something that targets thronebreakers. Maybe those paths bring back the root mechanic and/or severe champ restrictions (Only inhumans and Xmen). But another interesting twist I think would help would be an item limit like AW, or something that stops Unitman from clearing everything. However, I don't think Kabam would ever nerf their fav champ
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 419 ★★★

    I'm still waiting for them to announce another difficulty for variants, like deviant difficulty or something that targets thronebreakers. Maybe those paths bring back the root mechanic and/or severe champ restrictions (Only inhumans and Xmen). But another interesting twist I think would help would be an item limit like AW, or something that stops Unitman from clearing everything. However, I don't think Kabam would ever nerf their fav champ

    I’ve toyed with the item limit idea in permanent content and it’s an interesting one. I’d be in support of it, but as you point out this is ultimately a business and selling items is good for that business.

    This doesn’t solve the problem, but a cool idea would be a quest set up like incursion rooms where you’re allowed a certain number of items per room and that gets refreshed after a certain point. 3 fights in and your 5 item cap is replenished, thereby encouraging players to heal up before moving into the next quest section
  • TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Posts: 668 ★★★
    Item limitation wouldn't necessarily cut into profits. It might actually increase them, as if you can't buy the win, you have to start over and use even more items.

    I think it's a very good option to aid in making actually 'difficult' content actually difficult.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 419 ★★★

    Item limitation wouldn't necessarily cut into profits. It might actually increase them, as if you can't buy the win, you have to start over and use even more items.

    I think it's a very good option to aid in making actually 'difficult' content actually difficult.

    It just depends on the patience of the player. If the player is patient and willing to space out attempts to restore their stockpile, then they won’t buy items. But if they want to just keep throwing themselves at it until it’s done, then I agree it could increase the profitability of the content.
  • LlessurLlessur Posts: 188
    there can be fun fights and grueling fights like the grandmaster is a fun fight but still challenges but like 6.2 sinister is just a pain in the ass grueling you can have fun hard fights not just pull out my hair hard fights
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 419 ★★★
    Llessur said:

    there can be fun fights and grueling fights like the grandmaster is a fun fight but still challenges but like 6.2 sinister is just a pain in the ass grueling you can have fun hard fights not just pull out my hair hard fights

    I honestly think putting Prey on the Weak on 6.2 Sinister made him harder than he was with EMP mod. When I did my exploration runs on him, I used Warlock with Ultron for his fury synergy and was able to nuke him down before the EMP mod ate me. It was an extremely fast paced and fun fight, but only because I had that specific counter. I used Quake with the Heimdall synergy the first time and it suuuuuuucked.
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 1,836 ★★★★
    As a scrub (f2p tho), I would genuinely hate the item limit.
  • TrashyPandaTrashyPanda Posts: 668 ★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    Item limitation wouldn't necessarily cut into profits. It might actually increase them, as if you can't buy the win, you have to start over and use even more items.

    I think it's a very good option to aid in making actually 'difficult' content actually difficult.

    It just depends on the patience of the player. If the player is patient and willing to space out attempts to restore their stockpile, then they won’t buy items. But if they want to just keep throwing themselves at it until it’s done, then I agree it could increase the profitability of the content.
    That's a good point. I think it depends on the difficulty. If it's easy enough for free revs and gold potions, sure. Not so much if the average player is gonna need high-end team-items, though.

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