Champion Update Concern

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Haji_Saab said:
You get a 2* or higher on just entering the game through a PHC. This discussion has nothing to do with new players. Its all about that Variant.

That Chapter is easy enough as it is. You think people should cheese it?

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

Pulyaman said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

Corkscrew said:

Pulyaman said:

You get this text when loading the game. "Some Champions’ attacks can Stun their opponents, rendering them unable to attack, block, or even move!". So, new players will know exactly what stun means. Also, Hulk can stun with his sp1. The way you guys are talking about new players make it seem like they are a bunch of morons.
Yes... because players read loading screens...

Hulk's SP1 is completely different, he hit you which led to you being stunned, not you hit him which led to you being stunned.

You're forgetting that Kabam deals with hundreds, if not thousands of new players daily that may be:
1) New to mobile gaming, picked this up because it's Marvel
2) New to this kind of game, picked this up because it's Marvel
3) are morons

I've seen experienced players do moronic things, why would you expect more from someone that just picked up the game?

If you've ever had to build software for anyone, you know that they do stupid things and get frustrated easily. Kabam want the barrier of entry to be so low that people are hooked within 30 minutes.

So you're telling me if you never played a First Person Shooter before, loaded into your first few matches, then at one point got ko'ed up by a grenade you would say "What?! Well this game is Obviously Bugged because I didn't hear anyone shoot at me yet I still lost, disgusting, I can't fathom this Insane Sequence Of Events... I QUIT!"

Like that's what you're saying someone would do if they #1 happened to run into a 1 Star Colossus Specifically in the first hour or two of the game, then #2 the Insanely Low Chance that as they're doing their "button mashing" the 1 in a million chance of a Beginner Passive AI Blocking at The Perfect Time then would Stun them and even though there's 3 Forms of Alert In Fight that you've been Stunned the New Player would lose their mind assuming it was a Bug and delete the app...

Oh also there's the Little Tiny Tid Bit everyone seems to be forgetting here, Colossus's Built In Parry Stun only lasts 1 Second... 1 Second of being unable to move is supposed to blow the mind of some super unlucky new player, in that 1 Second the Passive Beginner AI would most likely Continue to Block or get off 1 Hit before blocking again...
I think as @Haji_Saab put it earlier, it has nothing to do with new players and more to do with colossus as a champion.

I'm talking the people's argument that New Players will lose their mind over a Stun and not want to play the game...

Corkscrew · May 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:
So you're telling me if you never played a First Person Shooter before, loaded into your first few matches, then at one point got ko'ed up by a grenade you would say "What?! Well this game is Obviously Bugged because I didn't hear anyone shoot at me yet I still lost, disgusting, I can't fathom this Insane Sequence Of Events... I QUIT!"

Like that's what you're saying someone would do if they #1 happened to run into a 1 Star Colossus Specifically in the first hour or two of the game, then #2 the Insanely Low Chance that as they're doing their "button mashing" the 1 in a million chance of a Beginner Passive AI Blocking at The Perfect Time then would Stun them and even though there's 3 Forms of Alert In Fight that you've been Stunned the New Player would lose their mind assuming it was a Bug and delete the app...

Oh also there's the Little Tiny Tid Bit everyone seems to be forgetting here, Colossus's Built In Parry Stun only lasts 1 Second... 1 Second of being unable to move is supposed to blow the mind of some super unlucky new player, in that 1 Second the Passive Beginner AI would most likely Continue to Block or get off 1 Hit before blocking again...

Nope... not what I said and your analogy isn't the same.
You're playing an FPS... the premise of the game is to run around... shoot and get shot at. Your field of vision is limited. And the first instinct of many player IS... who the hell shot me where did that come from?

And again YOU don't know if that person quit because of that. There are many players who quit FPS because they consider that learning curve and that skill beyond them. Again, it's inherent bias from someone who has already invested countless hours in a game to say... no, no one will ever get turned off by that, because I wasn't and none of my alliance mates were. You've biased the sample group - you never asked the people that quit.

The point is, new players learn that they can freely hit there opponent. But in the case of 1* Colossus their champ suddenly becomes unresponsive. You think in that moment, the new player is looking at all the icons and reading the text? I know so many "experienced" players that don't see icons, can barely remember to read nodes. Most new players are probably just looking for windows to hit and not be hit.

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

Corkscrew said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:
So you're telling me if you never played a First Person Shooter before, loaded into your first few matches, then at one point got ko'ed up by a grenade you would say "What?! Well this game is Obviously Bugged because I didn't hear anyone shoot at me yet I still lost, disgusting, I can't fathom this Insane Sequence Of Events... I QUIT!"

Like that's what you're saying someone would do if they #1 happened to run into a 1 Star Colossus Specifically in the first hour or two of the game, then #2 the Insanely Low Chance that as they're doing their "button mashing" the 1 in a million chance of a Beginner Passive AI Blocking at The Perfect Time then would Stun them and even though there's 3 Forms of Alert In Fight that you've been Stunned the New Player would lose their mind assuming it was a Bug and delete the app...

Oh also there's the Little Tiny Tid Bit everyone seems to be forgetting here, Colossus's Built In Parry Stun only lasts 1 Second... 1 Second of being unable to move is supposed to blow the mind of some super unlucky new player, in that 1 Second the Passive Beginner AI would most likely Continue to Block or get off 1 Hit before blocking again...
Nope... not what I said and your analogy isn't the same.
You're playing an FPS... the premise of the game is to run around... shoot and get shot at. Your field of vision is limited. And the first instinct of many player IS... who the hell shot me where did that come from?

And again YOU don't know if that person quit because of that. There are many players who quit FPS because they consider that learning curve and that skill beyond them. Again, it's inherent bias from someone who has already invested countless hours in a game to say... no, no one will ever get turned off by that, because I wasn't and none of my alliance mates were. You've biased the sample group - you never asked the people that quit.

The point is, new players learn that they can freely hit there opponent. But in the case of 1* Colossus their champ suddenly becomes unresponsive. You think in that moment, the new player is looking at all the icons and reading the text? I know so many "experienced" players that don't see icons, can barely remember to read nodes. Most new players are probably just looking for windows to hit and not be hit.

And again you're acting like every new player has a shorter attention span that a chicken, your example of a Defending Colossus getting off a Parry is So Unlikely to happen that's was my point with that analogy.
You'll probably run into a Defending 2 Star and above Colossus before running into a 1 Star Version and even if they did find one it's still Insanely Unlikely the Passive as hell AI would get off a Stun or even use the opportunity to attack, and again the Stun is 1 Damn Second. If people are just button mashing as you say then they probably wouldn't even Notice 1 Second of Inactivity, they again wouldn't immediately assume it's a bug (that's where your bias comes in) because they have no expectations of the game being buggy or not if they've never heard of it... Then even if they don't understand what the Icons and Text are they would Easily come to the conclusion of (if they even noticed they stopped moving) "Oh when my Champions stopped moving there was a Ping, a Red Circle appear under my Health Bar, or the Big Red Text Saying STUN must mean that's an Ability."

BlaccLotus1 · May 2021

Hey @Kabam Miike I have a question:After 6 going on 7 years why is it that there is no official guide from Kabam anywhere? For new players that would be helpful.An consistently updated PDF,a website,something,anything would be better than what we currently have.That would alleviate a lot of questions I see on this forum every time I jump on.

Pulyaman · May 2021

BlaccLotus1 said:

New players also don't know what an intercept is. They're not going to fail it unless they try. A parry stun can occur without ever trying.

I get what you guys are going for, but you're solely looking at this through the lens of an experienced player, or a player that is aware of what to do when you start a new game and want the best info available. This is not the common experience of most people that download a new game on their Mobile devices.

Hey I have a question:After 6 years going on 7 years why is it that there is no official guide from Kabam anywhere? For new players that would be helpful.An consistently updated PDF,a website,something,anything would be better than what we currently have.That would alleviate a lot of questions I see on this forum every time I jump on.

@BlaccLotus1
Useful information:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/176360/frequently-asked-questions-about-combat-and-combat-mechanics/p1

Forum Rules : specifically read No.18.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/54/forum-rules-please-read-prior-to-posting#latest

BlaccLotus1 · May 2021

Pulyaman said:

BlaccLotus1 said:

New players also don't know what an intercept is. They're not going to fail it unless they try. A parry stun can occur without ever trying.

I get what you guys are going for, but you're solely looking at this through the lens of an experienced player, or a player that is aware of what to do when you start a new game and want the best info available. This is not the common experience of most people that download a new game on their Mobile devices.

Hey I have a question:After 6 years going on 7 years why is it that there is no official guide from Kabam anywhere? For new players that would be helpful.An consistently updated PDF,a website,something,anything would be better than what we currently have.That would alleviate a lot of questions I see on this forum every time I jump on.

@BlaccLotus1
Useful information:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/176360/frequently-asked-questions-about-combat-and-combat-mechanics/p1

Forum Rules : specifically read No.18.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/54/forum-rules-please-read-prior-to-posting#latest

I saw the mistake after I posted, It’s fixed. And the useful information is not what I was referring to. Kabam has no official guide from any of their employees published anywhere.If you go to Google “Marvel Contest of Champions Official Guide” you won’t find one from Kabam. @Kabam Miike said it himself-new players don’t know what intercept is, how is this a thing 7 years in?

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

BlaccLotus1 said:

Pulyaman said:

BlaccLotus1 said:

New players also don't know what an intercept is. They're not going to fail it unless they try. A parry stun can occur without ever trying.

I get what you guys are going for, but you're solely looking at this through the lens of an experienced player, or a player that is aware of what to do when you start a new game and want the best info available. This is not the common experience of most people that download a new game on their Mobile devices.

Hey I have a question:After 6 years going on 7 years why is it that there is no official guide from Kabam anywhere? For new players that would be helpful.An consistently updated PDF,a website,something,anything would be better than what we currently have.That would alleviate a lot of questions I see on this forum every time I jump on.

@BlaccLotus1
Useful information:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/176360/frequently-asked-questions-about-combat-and-combat-mechanics/p1

Forum Rules : specifically read No.18.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/54/forum-rules-please-read-prior-to-posting#latest
I saw the mistake after I posted, It’s fixed. And the useful information is not what I was referring to. Kabam has no official guide from any of their employees published anywhere.If you go to Google “Marvel Contest of Champions Official Guide” you won’t find one from Kabam. @Kabam Miike said it himself-new players don’t know what intercept is, how is this a thing 7 years in?

Yeah I had a comment on that stuck in the approval abyss too, incase it doesn't show up I was trying to say there should be a Tutorial Quest Chain like many other Fighting Games have.
Going over the Basic Mechanics of the game like Parry and Combos different than MLLLL and later the more advanced Moves like Reparry and Backdraft Intercepts.

BlaccLotus1 · May 2021

GroundedWisdom said:
Solid question. Why are people arguing about a 1* Champ that isn't used anywhere but the beginning of game play and one Chapter of a Variant?

In my opinion, the point of the argument is the inconsistency of applied principles&logic. The reason stated why the 1* Colossus wasn’t updated should apply to all the updated champs that have 1* versions. The OP points this out using Black Panther for their example.The answer from @Kabam Miike doesn’t match up with his answer concerning Colossus,and neither does his follow-up.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

BlaccLotus1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Solid question. Why are people arguing about a 1* Champ that isn't used anywhere but the beginning of game play and one Chapter of a Variant?
In my opinion, the point of the argument is the inconsistency of applied principles&logic. The reason stated why the 1* Colossus wasn’t updated should apply to all the updated champs that have 1* versions. The OP points this out using Black Panther for their example.The answer from @Kabam Miike doesn’t match up with his answer concerning Colossus,and neither does his follow-up.

I think people fundamentally forget how it is to pick the game up for the first time.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd

That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Also, if your son had you helping him out when he started, that's not the same as someone with no knowledge picking it up at first.

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".

What kind of reasoning is that? "If this Valid Use didn't exist then no one would be talking about said Valid Use"

#1 no duh but V4 Exists so it's a Valid Use for 1 Stars, #2 "they updated one and not the other" is still a valid cause for questioning either way. We ask why that is the case and we keep getting shifting answers that contradict each other from the source (Kabam) or Extremely Unlikely+Exaggerated Scenarios from speculators (other players) that act like it would cause mass confusion for new players.

Pulyaman · May 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd
That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.

It's not even about V4. I explored V4 long back and even the updated colossus does not provide any new answers for those nodes. We have potentially new content that we could use our 1 stars on. There was the arena recently where you could use any star champion and it would give the same points. I was using colossus with parry heavy playstyle which is useless because the 1 star had the old abilities which I actually remembered after seeing that I was not getting the passive fury.

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

Excalibeer said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Extremely Unlikely+Exaggerated Scenarios from speculators (other players) that act like it would cause mass confusion for new players.
This scenario is near impossible to begin with and is not a valid reason eitherway

Exactly, the Defender Argument wasn't even used by Kabam either.
It was just another commenter who said they interpreted it like "this", but then you do a little research and realized you'd never run into a Defending 1 Star Colossus before unlocking Parry.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd
That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.
It's not even about V4. I explored V4 long back and even the updated colossus does not provide any new answers for those nodes. We have potentially new content that we could use our 1 stars on. There was the arena recently where you could use any star champion and it would give the same points. I was using colossus with parry heavy playstyle which is useless because the 1 star had the old abilities which I actually remembered after seeing that I was not getting the passive fury.

An Arena is not a logical justification. The Fights are typically over before you even notice anything at all.

LibertyPrimeV1 · May 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd
That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.
It's not even about V4. I explored V4 long back and even the updated colossus does not provide any new answers for those nodes. We have potentially new content that we could use our 1 stars on. There was the arena recently where you could use any star champion and it would give the same points. I was using colossus with parry heavy playstyle which is useless because the 1 star had the old abilities which I actually remembered after seeing that I was not getting the passive fury.
An Arena is not a logical justification. The Fights are typically over before you even notice anything at all.

I think their point was this already shows they're still interested in Making Content that's viable for Every Star Rating including 1 Stars.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd
That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.
It's not even about V4. I explored V4 long back and even the updated colossus does not provide any new answers for those nodes. We have potentially new content that we could use our 1 stars on. There was the arena recently where you could use any star champion and it would give the same points. I was using colossus with parry heavy playstyle which is useless because the 1 star had the old abilities which I actually remembered after seeing that I was not getting the passive fury.
An Arena is not a logical justification. The Fights are typically over before you even notice anything at all.
I think their point was this already shows they're still interested in Making Content that's viable for Every Star Rating including 1 Stars.

The odd occurrence, yes. Nothing that will depend on having a 1* Colossus updated. Also, I'm sorry but the reasoning for new Players sticks. The last thing you want to do is overcomplicate things if you expect people to stay.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Bottom line is, not everyone dives into the game head first and spends hours researching YouTube and various other sites when they start playing. You have a variety of people with a range of interest levels and as shady as it sounds, a variety of mental capacities. That's a reality. Some people learn at their own pace and aren't coming at it with the same fervor or knowledge that the rest of us have.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Excalibeer said:

GroundedWisdom said:
For that matter if it wasn't for V4, people wouldn't even be as bothered. It would just be "They updated one and not the other.".
Yeah. Almost like as if players talk about decisions that affect them but not about those that have no impact. Very wierd
That may be common, but they also have a tendency to go after the easiest route possible and many of us managed just fine with V4 without using Colossus 2.0.
It's not even about V4. I explored V4 long back and even the updated colossus does not provide any new answers for those nodes. We have potentially new content that we could use our 1 stars on. There was the arena recently where you could use any star champion and it would give the same points. I was using colossus with parry heavy playstyle which is useless because the 1 star had the old abilities which I actually remembered after seeing that I was not getting the passive fury.
An Arena is not a logical justification. The Fights are typically over before you even notice anything at all.
I think their point was this already shows they're still interested in Making Content that's viable for Every Star Rating including 1 Stars.
The odd occurrence, yes. Nothing that will depend on having a 1* Colossus updated. Also, I'm sorry but the reasoning for new Players sticks. The last thing you want to do is overcomplicate things if you expect people to stay.
There's nothing over complicated enough to make people quit Immediately and if they did then they probably don't really want to play, period.
Great business ethic. I'll see you in a year when your product flops.
What business ethic? 😂 This is a 1 Second Parry that you will barely notice before unlocking Parry in an hour of play, people need to stop acting like it'll drive new players mad. It won't.

The business ethic of disregarding the understanding of people who just picked the game up, because "If they really want to play, they'll learn.". Notwithstanding the idea that it's better to overcomplicate it for the newcomer than to let Mid to End-Game Players go without cheesing content with an OP buff.

Luciferiamdevil · May 2021

But updating 1* colossus can't harm much as you said not everyone will use it i mean the experienced players and to be honest i think its just so that nobody can cheese through variant 4 chapter 3 quest 2 where there are so many bleed nodes and 1* colossus would've been MVP for this if he was updated as well.

Corkscrew · May 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

This scenario is near impossible to begin with and is not a valid reason either way

Exactly, the Defender Argument wasn't even used by Kabam either.
It was just another commenter who said they interpreted it like "this", but then you do a little research and realized you'd never run into a Defending 1 Star Colossus before unlocking Parry.

Because the whole idea is to prevent the introduction of parry stun before the parry stun mastery is introduced to the player. This would be done if Colossus was a defender. Logical flow.

At this point, I really couldn't care if they updated Colossus or not. I've done 100% V4 ages ago. In the case of arenas where 1* champs are available... who cares the fights are easy. As for future content where an amped up Colossus would be beneficial, I would do what I always do and just figure out a path through.

I think Kabam messes up as much as the next guy.

My point is that their argument isn't without merit and piling on for the sake of just being a naysayer to whatever Kabam says isn't productive. I've had my own conspiracy theories about things, but saying they didn't update Colossus because he would be OP seems pretty tin foil.

I'm not going to be unhappy if they turn around and update Colossus tomorrow... I'm just not getting my pitchfork so that they do it.

Champion Update Concern

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