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Does silver surfer take Incinerate damage against Torch?

rockykostonrockykoston Posts: 1,141 ★★★
These are the nodes and I have video as well.

Does anyone know why Silver Surfer took Incinerate damage after launching SP1?


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Comments

  • RiptideRiptide Posts: 2,557 ★★★★★
    Enhanced incinerate. SS reduces the damage by 100%, but the node increases it by 40%

    So 140 -100 = 40%
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Posts: 715 ★★★
    Yes he does
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Posts: 715 ★★★

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    The game sometimes confuses me too
    In some cases it goes as u said (I forgot currently, I'll tell u when I remember) but in torch u take damage
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 4,792 ★★★★★
    edited September 2021

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    When you take percentages away from percentages, you're left with a percentage.
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 4,642 ★★★★★

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    for that they make champs incinerate immune, not resistent.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 2,468 ★★★★★
    it does not help that some percentages do work like complete immunities like omega reds tentacle and namors sig and things protection
  • JhonST33JhonST33 Posts: 425 ★★★
    SS is great for HT, just don't launch sp1 and don't block las hit of his specials.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 6,427 ★★★★★
    JhonST33 said:

    SS is great for HT, just don't launch sp1 and don't block las hit of his specials.

    I prefer to simply evade HT's sp1 in it's entirety
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    edited September 2021


    Does this also factor into the math?

    Meaning Surfer still has the Debuffs, is 100% immune, but Torch’s incinérâtes do this where other incinerates don’t affect champs this way.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 7,678 ★★★★★



    Does this also factor into the math?

    Meaning Surfer still has the Debuffs, is 100% immune, but Torch’s incinérâtes do this where other incinerates don’t affect champs this way.

    I believe that will only affect any willpower healing from them, it won’t affect the actual damage the incinerates do.

    If surfer came up against the enhanced incinerate node elsewhere it would still have the same effect on damage regardless of torches specific incinerate healing reduction.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 4,792 ★★★★★



    Does this also factor into the math?

    Meaning Surfer still has the Debuffs, is 100% immune, but Torch’s incinérâtes do this where other incinerates don’t affect champs this way.

    No, because the regeneration would only affect something like Willpower healing.

    Surfer is resistant to incinerate, not immune.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:



    Does this also factor into the math?

    Meaning Surfer still has the Debuffs, is 100% immune, but Torch’s incinérâtes do this where other incinerates don’t affect champs this way.

    No, because the regeneration would only affect something like Willpower healing.

    Surfer is resistant to incinerate, not immune.



    Does this also factor into the math?

    Meaning Surfer still has the Debuffs, is 100% immune, but Torch’s incinérâtes do this where other incinerates don’t affect champs this way.

    I believe that will only affect any willpower healing from them, it won’t affect the actual damage the incinerates do.

    If surfer came up against the enhanced incinerate node elsewhere it would still have the same effect on damage regardless of torches specific incinerate healing reduction.
    But for people seeing so much damage from Torch’s incinerates who have willpower on, wouldn’t that just enhance the visual of the amount of damage Surfer takes. Especially in AW if the opponent Torch has despair?
  • Zan0Zan0 Posts: 4,264 ★★★★★

    walkerdog said:

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    Kabam thinks percentages are units not percentages of a total. Its psychotic but thats what's going on. They don't understand that reducing 100% of anything is all of it, whether its 100%, 2%, or 150%, or they do but they don't care.
    It’s absolutely not psychotic. It’s how the game is built and works. Kabam understand this clearly, so I do i. The only example of someone not understanding it, appears to be you I’m afraid.

    They do understand that 100% of something is all of it, but they have decided to use the other method as previously explained. You can disagree with that all you want, call it psychotic, complain to your hearts content. It doesn’t change that the logic and the numbers are sound no matter how much you may think it’s not.

    What *could* change, is the in game description and clarity. Based on the fact we have these threads every couple of weeks, it could be explained a little more clearly in game to avoid this issue. Although to be fair, I have explained this to you a few times, and you still seem just as angry about it so I’m not sure it would fully solve the problem.
    It’s absolutely clear as day what @BitterSteel is saying is correct. Also at this point you can’t change it because it would massively imbalance the game both in our favour and not in our favour
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 7,678 ★★★★★
    Zan0 said:

    walkerdog said:

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    Kabam thinks percentages are units not percentages of a total. Its psychotic but thats what's going on. They don't understand that reducing 100% of anything is all of it, whether its 100%, 2%, or 150%, or they do but they don't care.
    It’s absolutely not psychotic. It’s how the game is built and works. Kabam understand this clearly, so I do i. The only example of someone not understanding it, appears to be you I’m afraid.

    They do understand that 100% of something is all of it, but they have decided to use the other method as previously explained. You can disagree with that all you want, call it psychotic, complain to your hearts content. It doesn’t change that the logic and the numbers are sound no matter how much you may think it’s not.

    What *could* change, is the in game description and clarity. Based on the fact we have these threads every couple of weeks, it could be explained a little more clearly in game to avoid this issue. Although to be fair, I have explained this to you a few times, and you still seem just as angry about it so I’m not sure it would fully solve the problem.
    It’s absolutely clear as day what @BitterSteel is saying is correct. Also at this point you can’t change it because it would massively imbalance the game both in our favour and not in our favour
    Yep, this system works in our favour with longshot’s increased ability accuracy. Hell, when using Torch on offence you can damage surfer, it saves you having to use pre fight. Oddly enough, people are only complaining about the part that negatively affects them, conveniently forgetting the part that benefits them.

    Taking 100% reduced damage from *anything* incinerate would be OP, willpower healing with no con. Game balance is a thing people.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 1,652 ★★★★★
    edited September 2021
    I understand the frustration but I think it’s best understood with a simple notation change. All of these things are additive. That’s why a 200% attack node dropping in AQ doesn’t cut Apocalypse’s attack to a third its prior value.

    We wouldn’t have these discussions as often if it was presented as

    +200% attack
    Or
    -100% damage from incinerate.

    It’s also a contrast to immune champs and no-damage champs. Electro takes no damage from shock so he’s immune to shock enhancement. Mephisto for incinerate should operate the same way. Circus’s glaive immunity too. “Does not take damage” is their “multiply by zero.” -100% is just that.
  • Zan0Zan0 Posts: 4,264 ★★★★★
    walkerdog said:

    Zan0 said:

    walkerdog said:

    Torch does 140% incinerate damage.

    Surfer reduces that by -100%.

    Surfer takes 40% incinerate damage.

    Each smoulder adds another 10%

    Hmm , makes sense in a certain way but still odd.

    Surfer reduces damage by 100%, so whatever the incoming Incinerate damage, he should reduce it. It's not like his Ability to reduce damage is affected.
    Kabam thinks percentages are units not percentages of a total. Its psychotic but thats what's going on. They don't understand that reducing 100% of anything is all of it, whether its 100%, 2%, or 150%, or they do but they don't care.
    It’s absolutely not psychotic. It’s how the game is built and works. Kabam understand this clearly, so I do i. The only example of someone not understanding it, appears to be you I’m afraid.

    They do understand that 100% of something is all of it, but they have decided to use the other method as previously explained. You can disagree with that all you want, call it psychotic, complain to your hearts content. It doesn’t change that the logic and the numbers are sound no matter how much you may think it’s not.

    What *could* change, is the in game description and clarity. Based on the fact we have these threads every couple of weeks, it could be explained a little more clearly in game to avoid this issue. Although to be fair, I have explained this to you a few times, and you still seem just as angry about it so I’m not sure it would fully solve the problem.
    It’s absolutely clear as day what @BitterSteel is saying is correct. Also at this point you can’t change it because it would massively imbalance the game both in our favour and not in our favour
    No I agree its how it works, but it is insane to think that reducing something by 100% (as Bitter notes) is not a psychotic description or result when its just subtracting 100 units not actually reducing all of it.

    I know its something they did years ago, and that the game has grown a lot, but their ability to make things function differently than the common sense interpretation of the description is incredible. Just no regard for "words mean things".

    Its not just their approach to math, its their purification messes, trying to add "cleanse" to get away with having another same-but-different-effect... and then using "cleanse" in the description of purify, adding exceptions to things with no exception (nick fury not removing aq heal blocks on Real Nick mode)... theyre truly bad at using words to define their rules in a consistent way.

    I honestly can't tell if its just a matter of them not caring or not understanding how rules in games work. They can't genuinely be this unable to do it consistently right?
    The fact that you think nick fury should bypass the aq Heal block baffles me. If you read his description you can see why he can’t bypass it.

    And no it isn’t a psychotic description. It reduces damage by 100% it’s just that it’s base damage and not the total damage (100%-100%+40%=40%)
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