I originally posted this to see other people's thoughts. I understand all of your views although I don't entirely agree with them but I appreciate seeing your inputs and I do agree to a level with them, not entirely but partially. But I'm gonna leave it here, I may be missing something in my reasoning seeing that a lot of you share the same view. Thanks guys for all the input.
Fair response. No one should be attacking you personally—the system is structured the way it is, and the team has had similar experiences with things like AW in the past to learn about the effects of *prestige* based matching.
For whatever reason, they scrapped those learnings and the result is what you see: accounts like yours that rise to the point of facing significantly more powerful accounts and accounts like others who struggle to progress because all they face are giant accounts.
It’s a problem the team claims to be working on. But it doesn't appear to be a near term fix.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
You have to be very careful wielding that logic. Because rewards are not just adjusted based on progression, their value is itself progression-relative. That's why the rewards are adjusted in the first place. We can't give everyone 6* crystals because what is a mediocre reward for Paragon players is a massive reward for Proven players. Uncollected rewards are supposed to be as meaningful to Uncollected players as Cavalier rewards are to Cavalier players (roughly).
So yes, the BG store has different costs for different progression tiers, which makes different rewards (or reward quantities) available for different progression tier players. But the devs don't design the store that way to punish lower tier players, they do so to in effect normalize the rewards across different progression tiers. So when you say that the rewards aren't the same because the prices are different, keep in mind that the prices are different to make the rewards have the same relative value. So when a Cav player spends 10000 tokens in the BG store and a Paragon player spends 10000 tokens in the BG store, they should be getting roughly the same relative value compared to their progression requirements. Which means those 10000 tokens have, in effect, comparable value between players of differing progression tiers.
From a game design perspective, it is the variable store prices in the BG store that allows the devs to award BG game mode rewards to all players regardless of progression. The store normalizes those rewards in the end.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
By the same logic, in an alliance with people of mixed progression do you think a cavalier player is earning less than a paragon from AQ even though they receive the same amount of glory each week?
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
I originally posted this to see other people's thoughts. I understand all of your views although I don't entirely agree with them but I appreciate seeing your inputs and I do agree to a level with them, not entirely but partially. But I'm gonna leave it here, I may be missing something in my reasoning seeing that a lot of you share the same view. Thanks guys for all the input.
Fair response. No one should be attacking you personally—the system is structured the way it is, and the team has had similar experiences with things like AW in the past to learn about the effects of *prestige* based matching.
For whatever reason, they scrapped those learnings and the result is what you see: accounts like yours that rise to the point of facing significantly more powerful accounts and accounts like others who struggle to progress because all they face are giant accounts.
It’s a problem the team claims to be working on. But it doesn't appear to be a near term fix.
Dr. Zola
Yeah I didn't mean for this to turn into a big debate and by some of the responses it seems like my views have annoyed some people which is why I decided to just leave it there. But I definitely understand and partially agree with what you're all saying, there are still some parts I disagree with and view differently but I won't go into detail so as not to start another thing.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
By the same logic, in an alliance with people of mixed progression do you think a cavalier player is earning less than a paragon from AQ even though they receive the same amount of glory each week?
Yes. But in an alliance, there are multiple other factors which can affect the level of involvement of different players. For the same map, it is possible for the cavalier player to be contributing less too. Realistically, there is no good way to proportionally reward individual contributors in the team game modes. BG is a solo mode, Cavaliers get the same battlechips and units for clearing arena milestones as Paragon players. Arena crystals give same gold/units for a million battlechips for normal/UC/TB crystals.
My only point is when people ask for fair matchups in BG they don't discount for the fact that rewards are not fair. If UC rewards are tailored to UC progression, then UC matches also should be tailored to UC progression. They are not fighting in the same competition, even if the leaderboards are merged.
People draw analogies with sports. But if a youth player wins a professional tournament, their prize is not attenuated - a million dollar prize money is same whether the top seed wins it or a 15 year old does and that million dollars buys the same things for everyone. The 15 year old is not given 3 Mars bars for winning the tournament.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
Yes, specially since "Rating" doesnt mean much... They should remove that stat.. everyone complains about omg 3 million rating.. 2 million rating.. im only 1 mill.. That 2-3 mill account probably has about 1 mill from useless maxed out 3* and 4* that are ranked during level up events...
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
What are these better rewards you are referring to? The UC store is 500 trophies for 1K 5-star shards and some T4B, is that what you want as a Paragon? They can't even buy T5B, let alone 6-star shards.
The UC player might be in Diamond, but they are not impacting your game in anyway. They are in Diamond in a competition for UCs, and if they win they get some 5-star shards. No Paragon player is losing out because of a few lucky UC accounts.
It is an equal amount of entitlement for Paragons to think they should progress in a competition by beating UCs but the rewards for winning should be based on who wins. Only way an open match-up works is if there is a single store. If the UC should face Paragons then they should have the same rewards as the Paragons do (since their chances of winning is miniscule - roster is a much bigger advantage than skill in BG).
It is an equal amount of entitlement for Paragons to think they should progress in a competition by beating UCs but the rewards for winning should be based on who wins. Only way an open match-up works is if there is a single store. If the UC should face Paragons then they should have the same rewards as the Paragons do (since their chances of winning is miniscule - roster is a much bigger advantage than skill in BG).
Only someone with an entitled perspective would think that demanding a competition where everyone faces everyone is special treatment, while demanding that my competition be curated to match my requirements is not special treatment.
In a progressional game, rewards are progressionally tuned. Intermediate currency allows progressional tuning through pricing. This is orthogonal to the requirements of a fair competition, in which the intent of a fair competition is to implement fairness within the context of the primary purpose to competitions: to ordinally sort the competitors by competitive strength as measured through direct competitive performance. Or to put that colloquially: to sort the players into winners and losers.
This is not just a way that competitions can work in progressional games, it is the way that they work the vast majority of the time. And I will remind for discussion purposes that the way you specify as the "only way" for open match up to work is not the way the GC works.
The problem with the concessions the devs made in VT is that it perpetuates an objective falsehood: that the purpose to competitions is to hand pick match ups for competitors so each fight is a 50/50 proposition. The primary purpose of a competition is to sort the players from strongest to weakest: to find the best, the second best, the third best, and so on. That is the definition of a competition. The practical limitation of all competitions is that this is not always possible to do with perfect precision. Random matching by ELO-like rating can be mathematically proven to have the property that across sufficient levels of activity the order of players by rating converges on the theoretical perfect order. Random matching guarantees sufficient mixing among players within rating bands to ensure there are no isolated groups of players disconnected from the rest with non-convergent ratings.
Matching by *any* criteria other than performance rating guarantees isolated groups, and provably breaks competitions by making it impossible to sort players by their ability to win matches. Everything else is subjective. The fact that roster matching breaks the definition of competitions is an objective failure. Players need to understand that random matching by ELO is the fundamental baseline, and every divergence from that is a concession. Instead, people think the roster matching of VT doesn't go far enough which is the definition of entitlement: people think they deserve special treatment over and above the norm.
It is an equal amount of entitlement for Paragons to think they should progress in a competition by beating UCs but the rewards for winning should be based on who wins. Only way an open match-up works is if there is a single store. If the UC should face Paragons then they should have the same rewards as the Paragons do (since their chances of winning is miniscule - roster is a much bigger advantage than skill in BG).
Only someone with an entitled perspective would think that demanding a competition where everyone faces everyone is special treatment, while demanding that my competition be curated to match my requirements is not special treatment.
In a progressional game, rewards are progressionally tuned. Intermediate currency allows progressional tuning through pricing. This is orthogonal to the requirements of a fair competition, in which the intent of a fair competition is to implement fairness within the context of the primary purpose to competitions: to ordinally sort the competitors by competitive strength as measured through direct competitive performance. Or to put that colloquially: to sort the players into winners and losers.
This is not just a way that competitions can work in progressional games, it is the way that they work the vast majority of the time. And I will remind for discussion purposes that the way you specify as the "only way" for open match up to work is not the way the GC works.
The problem with the concessions the devs made in VT is that it perpetuates an objective falsehood: that the purpose to competitions is to hand pick match ups for competitors so each fight is a 50/50 proposition. The primary purpose of a competition is to sort the players from strongest to weakest: to find the best, the second best, the third best, and so on. That is the definition of a competition. The practical limitation of all competitions is that this is not always possible to do with perfect precision. Random matching by ELO-like rating can be mathematically proven to have the property that across sufficient levels of activity the order of players by rating converges on the theoretical perfect order. Random matching guarantees sufficient mixing among players within rating bands to ensure there are no isolated groups of players disconnected from the rest with non-convergent ratings.
Matching by *any* criteria other than performance rating guarantees isolated groups, and provably breaks competitions by making it impossible to sort players by their ability to win matches. Everything else is subjective. The fact that roster matching breaks the definition of competitions is an objective failure. Players need to understand that random matching by ELO is the fundamental baseline, and every divergence from that is a concession. Instead, people think the roster matching of VT doesn't go far enough which is the definition of entitlement: people think they deserve special treatment over and above the norm.
In a progressional game, rewards are progressionally tuned and so are the challenges to get those rewards. In the BG format, an UC beating a Paragon is a much harder challenge than a Paragon beating a Paragon whereas a Paragon beating an UC is a trivial challenge.
I am not in favor of the current matchmaking system. I am all for ELO based ranking. If Paragons want to beat UCs to progress, that's fine. You can sort players into winners and losers - most Paragons will be winners and most UCs will be losers. But you cannot then decide the rewards for the winners based on who the winners are.
You can either have "random matchmaking and a single store" or "tiered matchmaking and tiered stores". You cannot say you want to find the best, but if the best is a UC or Cav I will give them a fraction of the rewards.
No rational UC player will bother with BGs, in a random matchmaking and a tiered store setup. 5-star shards and T4B are available easily in other game modes.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
There’s some important context you may be missing. This exact matchmaking debate has been going on for awhile, and it’s been… heated. For example, see this epic 24-page thread… which was actually a late entry into the discussion - an attempt to reset it and move it forward.
My point is that this topic is a mine field that you inadvertently walked into, and the intensity you’ve encountered here pre-existed your post. I wouldn’t take it personally.
Ngl I noticed this near the end and it was in my favor. But I was also being purposefully placed against stronger accounts unless I, A. Used a shield (almost always against a weaker accnt) or B. My first match of each tier, its almost like they don't WANT you to progress without units. I strongly believe that once you get past a certain PI you should either be graced into gladiator or have your win counts stipulation be decreased, this way 'stronger' accounts will move on out of the lower tier and allow lower accounts to progress naturally and fairly. So instead of three fights each tier you have one if you're a end game account. And all those accounts would move out of the first bracket quicker.
Simply put, if you're playing against a roster that's bigger than yours, then that person using that roster is either not very good or you yourself are very good. That's the way it should be. However the current broken system often matches even strength teams making the rankings complete chaos as it's not truly a best to worst setup. Two weaker teams fighting each other in a bronze matchup makes sense but in a diamond match doesn't make sense at all. Progression should matter and those bigger rosters usually have more content cleared and have put much more time into the game. If the system is set up though where you're just matched up with whoever is equal to you, then there's no reason to worry about rankups or progression. It just makes the matches harder.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
As a previous comment said, you inadvertently entered a minefield with your post. This has nothing to do with you and its surely not personal. I'll try to explain you why many veteran big accounts are upset: Imagine you are a 12k TB player and got X rewards from BGs and many 6k UC players got 2X rewards from BGs, because they placed much higher than you by fighting only each other. How would you feel? The answer is infuriated. That's why people were kinda aggressive responding to your post, not because of you personally, but because of the situation. I can personally assure you, that it ain't nice being a 16k 4mil veteran account with all content explored, and watch tiny newer accounts placing much higher and getting better rewards than you, in a supposed competitive mode. Many veteran accounts are at this position, were they can't escape VT because of the matchmaking. For them watching GC matchmaking complaints from smaller accounts it's irritating. I hope you try to put yourself in their shoes and understand them 🙂
The one thing no one says in this debate is why is it one sided? People ste quick to say of course you faced hard rosters or what do you think you shouldn’t face stiff competition? But you never realize like in my case. Its always people way above me. Which means 6 people a day face easy competition against me and climb the ranks. Where are ny 6 easy wins a day? They don’t exist right now. Its always dudes way higher than me. And it’s partly my fault for ranking 1 2 and 3 stars and 4 stars for arena. But my matchups are laughable
The one thing no one says in this debate is why is it one sided? People ste quick to say of course you faced hard rosters or what do you think you shouldn’t face stiff competition? But you never realize like in my case. Its always people way above me. Which means 6 people a day face easy competition against me and climb the ranks. Where are ny 6 easy wins a day? They don’t exist right now. Its always dudes way higher than me. And it’s partly my fault for ranking 1 2 and 3 stars and 4 stars for arena. But my matchups are laughable
If u only have 1-4* ranked u shouldnt even be using resources in BG.. u should be playing story mode and progressing....
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
There’s some important context you may be missing. This exact matchmaking debate has been going on for awhile, and it’s been… heated. For example, see this epic 24-page thread… which was actually a late entry into the discussion - an attempt to reset it and move it forward.
My point is that this topic is a mine field that you inadvertently walked into, and the intensity you’ve encountered here pre-existed your post. I wouldn’t take it personally.
I won't take it personally, I didn't realize this was a heated debate before I had posted the original thing. Just wanted to add that I do have no problem facing much harder accounts, my original post was about matchups that felt impossible because of a new level of harder accounts. But I understand now how the higher accounts feel and that it would be frustrating in their position.
Op, based on your logic, a really good little league team should be allowed to only go against little league teams while then being able to get the same rewards as the professional athletes (to include multimillion contract) and then compete in MLB playoffs (which many professional teams won't make it into who would squash the little league team) for chance at World Series Crown.
Sounds ridiculous right? Well that is EXACTLY what you are asking for in BGs
The rewards aren't the same however since the store costs change based on progression level.
They absolutely are the same rewards, they literally are exactly the same. The store is NOT the rewards nor so you have to spend them right away. If you decide to spend them at least value then that is a choice that YOU and YOU alone are making.
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Which champ did you acquire/rank up with BG trophies alone, without exchanging them for shards or catalysts? If you need to exchange them, then what you get in return are the rewards - they are different for different tiers.
If 2 people make $20 an hour each, but person A shops at Walmart and person B shops at an overpriced Wholefoods or Wegmans and is spending more on their groceries does that mean person A makes more than person B?
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
We don't have a Walmart and a Whole Foods to choose from. Everyone gets only one store to shop from, they are just charged different prices for the same item. In the real world that store doesn't exist, only works for an in-game economy.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
No one is picking on them, we are simply pointing out the ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face the stronger rosters.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
Sorry just wanted to check to see if there's been a misunderstanding, but when you say "The ridiculous entitlement of people thinking they should get an easy path to better rewards than those stronger than them without having to face stronger rosters", are you referring to my original comment?
As a previous comment said, you inadvertently entered a minefield with your post. This has nothing to do with you and its surely not personal. I'll try to explain you why many veteran big accounts are upset: Imagine you are a 12k TB player and got X rewards from BGs and many 6k UC players got 2X rewards from BGs, because they placed much higher than you by fighting only each other. How would you feel? The answer is infuriated. That's why people were kinda aggressive responding to your post, not because of you personally, but because of the situation. I can personally assure you, that it ain't nice being a 16k 4mil veteran account with all content explored, and watch tiny newer accounts placing much higher and getting better rewards than you, in a supposed competitive mode. Many veteran accounts are at this position, were they can't escape VT because of the matchmaking. For them watching GC matchmaking complaints from smaller accounts it's irritating. I hope you try to put yourself in their shoes and understand them 🙂
I can understand now how that would feel and that it would be very annoying for them, thanks for explaining it well
All I can add to this discussion is that match making is indeed broken. Its already so imbalanced allowing less established rosters earn the best prizes.
I decided to do some testing this season, see below (Tigra) account against my main (Kitty) account. It took me just over a week to reach Gladiator Circuit with Tigra but had to battle through and finally make the GC with Kitty just before week 3 ended. This was such a breeze with my weaker account earning the same rewards my 7 year old account earns with even less effort.
This shouldn't be the case for a competitive mode.
All I can add to this discussion is that match making is indeed broken. Its already so imbalanced allowing less established rosters earn the best prizes.
I decided to do some testing this season, see below (Tigra) account against my main (Kitty) account. It took me just over a week to reach Gladiator Circuit with Tigra but had to battle through and finally make the GC with Kitty just before week 3 ended. This was such a breeze with my weaker account earning the same rewards my 7 year old account earns with even less effort.
This shouldn't be the case for a competitive mode.
All people with alt accounts have the very same experience. I run a ftp 600k Cavalier alt account too (main is 4mil). When matchmaking changed at Season 4 last weeks, my alt account got in 3 days to GC with an over 90% win ratio, losing only to other experienced player’s low alt accounts. Don’t run BGs on my alt from then, because it feels like taking advantage of a broken system to get easy rewards, and out of respect to the other people struggling at VT. My main account from Season5 consistently ends up at Platinum 3. Same person, same skills, playing two very different accounts. The lower account can place much higher than the much bigger and progressed account, in a supposed competitive mode. If that isn’t a clear proof of how broken Prestige matchmaking is, then I don’t know what is. Kabam claims that when seeding will be implemented, matchmaking will open and be random (fair). But what happens till then? Higher accounts are suffering for over 2 seasons now, how long do they need to suffer more? Let alone that these lower accounts, after so long would be entitled to GC rewards. What will happen when those 200-300k accounts found themselves from reaching GC easily all these seasons, to having zero chances of keep doing that? Kabam needs to address seeding and matchmaking the sooner possible, because the time that passes only adds frustration to veteran players, and will create higher outrage from lower players (entitled to rewards anymore) when things change.
The one thing no one says in this debate is why is it one sided? People ste quick to say of course you faced hard rosters or what do you think you shouldn’t face stiff competition? But you never realize like in my case. Its always people way above me. Which means 6 people a day face easy competition against me and climb the ranks. Where are ny 6 easy wins a day? They don’t exist right now. Its always dudes way higher than me. And it’s partly my fault for ranking 1 2 and 3 stars and 4 stars for arena. But my matchups are laughable
Although Kabam has not specified precisely how the bG match maker works (as far as I'm aware no one outside of Kabam has been given those details, not even the CCP, nor have I been told by anyone) based on observations and testing, plus a little induction, the match system does not use player rating. Nor does it use prestige. The most likely option that appears consistent with observations as well as statements Kabam has made about their goals for the match making changes they implemented to eliminate deck manipulation is that the game probably matches players based on the strength of their top 30 or so champs. Essentially, the game pretends you made your deck using your highest champs, and matches everyone on that assumption (so you cannot manipulate your match rating by adding lower champs to your deck).
There's an idea floating around that people should not rank up champions because ranking up champs hurts your matches. The idea is the stronger your roster, the stronger your match ups will get. However, this is only half true. Yes, overall, stronger roster will lead to stronger match ups eventually, but most rank ups will not affect match ups at all, since the game doesn't look at all of them. Furthermore, many rank ups help win matches. So simply not ranking up at all can hurt more than it helps.
What's worse, if you're winning you probably don't care either way. It is the players who are losing constantly that care. And those people are precise the ones who likely are hurting themselves the most by not ranking up champs. Consider: if you're losing constantly and failing to progress, how much worse can it get than that? Ranking up champions will change who you get matched against, but that is only likely to hurt winners. It cant hurt to change up your circumstances if you're constantly losing, so you might as well take your chances and rank up your best BG champs, hoping to improve your roster more than you hurt your chances by matching against stronger rosters. If you're stuck in Bronze, what do you have to lose?
Basically, if you have a winning hand you hold your cards, and if you have a losing hand you try to draw new cards. You might still end up with a losing hand, but a chance is still a chance.
Comments
For whatever reason, they scrapped those learnings and the result is what you see: accounts like yours that rise to the point of facing significantly more powerful accounts and accounts like others who struggle to progress because all they face are giant accounts.
It’s a problem the team claims to be working on. But it doesn't appear to be a near term fix.
Dr. Zola
You could also just progress in story mode. You seem to think you deserve high BG rewards so that means you should be good enough to progress further in story mode if you think you deserve the same or better rewards than those higher progression than you.
Simply progress in the game and you won't have this issue as title isn't even believed to be one of the matchmaking criteria and is completely irrelevant. You are more than welcome to hold on to the rewards you earn while waiting to progress in game.
So yes, the BG store has different costs for different progression tiers, which makes different rewards (or reward quantities) available for different progression tier players. But the devs don't design the store that way to punish lower tier players, they do so to in effect normalize the rewards across different progression tiers. So when you say that the rewards aren't the same because the prices are different, keep in mind that the prices are different to make the rewards have the same relative value. So when a Cav player spends 10000 tokens in the BG store and a Paragon player spends 10000 tokens in the BG store, they should be getting roughly the same relative value compared to their progression requirements. Which means those 10000 tokens have, in effect, comparable value between players of differing progression tiers.
From a game design perspective, it is the variable store prices in the BG store that allows the devs to award BG game mode rewards to all players regardless of progression. The store normalizes those rewards in the end.
If one isn't using the tokens to progress, then they are not benefiting from BG in their progression (and those tokens don't affect anyone's gameplay). Why pick on those people?
Start working on progression instead of complaining on matchmaking
My only point is when people ask for fair matchups in BG they don't discount for the fact that rewards are not fair. If UC rewards are tailored to UC progression, then UC matches also should be tailored to UC progression. They are not fighting in the same competition, even if the leaderboards are merged.
People draw analogies with sports. But if a youth player wins a professional tournament, their prize is not attenuated - a million dollar prize money is same whether the top seed wins it or a 15 year old does and that million dollars buys the same things for everyone. The 15 year old is not given 3 Mars bars for winning the tournament.
If you don't like the current store you have, do what the rest of us have done and progress in the game. The problem that is going over your head is that while UC and Cav players are complaining about facing a stronger roster in Diamond or GC, there are literally thousands of paragons of 16k plus prestige that weren't able to get out of victory track.
They should remove that stat.. everyone complains about omg 3 million rating.. 2 million rating.. im only 1 mill..
That 2-3 mill account probably has about 1 mill from useless maxed out 3* and 4* that are ranked during level up events...
The UC player might be in Diamond, but they are not impacting your game in anyway. They are in Diamond in a competition for UCs, and if they win they get some 5-star shards. No Paragon player is losing out because of a few lucky UC accounts.
It is an equal amount of entitlement for Paragons to think they should progress in a competition by beating UCs but the rewards for winning should be based on who wins. Only way an open match-up works is if there is a single store. If the UC should face Paragons then they should have the same rewards as the Paragons do (since their chances of winning is miniscule - roster is a much bigger advantage than skill in BG).
In a progressional game, rewards are progressionally tuned. Intermediate currency allows progressional tuning through pricing. This is orthogonal to the requirements of a fair competition, in which the intent of a fair competition is to implement fairness within the context of the primary purpose to competitions: to ordinally sort the competitors by competitive strength as measured through direct competitive performance. Or to put that colloquially: to sort the players into winners and losers.
This is not just a way that competitions can work in progressional games, it is the way that they work the vast majority of the time. And I will remind for discussion purposes that the way you specify as the "only way" for open match up to work is not the way the GC works.
The problem with the concessions the devs made in VT is that it perpetuates an objective falsehood: that the purpose to competitions is to hand pick match ups for competitors so each fight is a 50/50 proposition. The primary purpose of a competition is to sort the players from strongest to weakest: to find the best, the second best, the third best, and so on. That is the definition of a competition. The practical limitation of all competitions is that this is not always possible to do with perfect precision. Random matching by ELO-like rating can be mathematically proven to have the property that across sufficient levels of activity the order of players by rating converges on the theoretical perfect order. Random matching guarantees sufficient mixing among players within rating bands to ensure there are no isolated groups of players disconnected from the rest with non-convergent ratings.
Matching by *any* criteria other than performance rating guarantees isolated groups, and provably breaks competitions by making it impossible to sort players by their ability to win matches. Everything else is subjective. The fact that roster matching breaks the definition of competitions is an objective failure. Players need to understand that random matching by ELO is the fundamental baseline, and every divergence from that is a concession. Instead, people think the roster matching of VT doesn't go far enough which is the definition of entitlement: people think they deserve special treatment over and above the norm.
I am not in favor of the current matchmaking system. I am all for ELO based ranking. If Paragons want to beat UCs to progress, that's fine. You can sort players into winners and losers - most Paragons will be winners and most UCs will be losers. But you cannot then decide the rewards for the winners based on who the winners are.
You can either have "random matchmaking and a single store" or "tiered matchmaking and tiered stores". You cannot say you want to find the best, but if the best is a UC or Cav I will give them a fraction of the rewards.
No rational UC player will bother with BGs, in a random matchmaking and a tiered store setup. 5-star shards and T4B are available easily in other game modes.
My point is that this topic is a mine field that you inadvertently walked into, and the intensity you’ve encountered here pre-existed your post. I wouldn’t take it personally.
This has nothing to do with you and its surely not personal.
I'll try to explain you why many veteran big accounts are upset:
Imagine you are a 12k TB player and got X rewards from BGs and many 6k UC players got 2X rewards from BGs, because they placed much higher than you by fighting only each other. How would you feel?
The answer is infuriated.
That's why people were kinda aggressive responding to your post, not because of you personally, but because of the situation.
I can personally assure you, that it ain't nice being a 16k 4mil veteran account with all content explored, and watch tiny newer accounts placing much higher and getting better rewards than you, in a supposed competitive mode.
Many veteran accounts are at this position, were they can't escape VT because of the matchmaking.
For them watching GC matchmaking complaints from smaller accounts it's irritating.
I hope you try to put yourself in their shoes and understand them 🙂
I decided to do some testing this season, see below (Tigra) account against my main (Kitty) account. It took me just over a week to reach Gladiator Circuit with Tigra but had to battle through and finally make the GC with Kitty just before week 3 ended. This was such a breeze with my weaker account earning the same rewards my 7 year old account earns with even less effort.
This shouldn't be the case for a competitive mode.
I run a ftp 600k Cavalier alt account too (main is 4mil).
When matchmaking changed at Season 4 last weeks, my alt account got in 3 days to GC with an over 90% win ratio, losing only to other experienced player’s low alt accounts.
Don’t run BGs on my alt from then, because it feels like taking advantage of a broken system to get easy rewards, and out of respect to the other people struggling at VT.
My main account from Season5 consistently ends up at Platinum 3.
Same person, same skills, playing two very different accounts.
The lower account can place much higher than the much bigger and progressed account, in a supposed competitive mode.
If that isn’t a clear proof of how broken Prestige matchmaking is, then I don’t know what is.
Kabam claims that when seeding will be implemented, matchmaking will open and be random (fair).
But what happens till then?
Higher accounts are suffering for over 2 seasons now, how long do they need to suffer more?
Let alone that these lower accounts, after so long would be entitled to GC rewards.
What will happen when those 200-300k accounts found themselves from reaching GC easily all these seasons, to having zero chances of keep doing that?
Kabam needs to address seeding and matchmaking the sooner possible, because the time that passes only adds frustration to veteran players, and will create higher outrage from lower players (entitled to rewards anymore) when things change.
There's an idea floating around that people should not rank up champions because ranking up champs hurts your matches. The idea is the stronger your roster, the stronger your match ups will get. However, this is only half true. Yes, overall, stronger roster will lead to stronger match ups eventually, but most rank ups will not affect match ups at all, since the game doesn't look at all of them. Furthermore, many rank ups help win matches. So simply not ranking up at all can hurt more than it helps.
What's worse, if you're winning you probably don't care either way. It is the players who are losing constantly that care. And those people are precise the ones who likely are hurting themselves the most by not ranking up champs. Consider: if you're losing constantly and failing to progress, how much worse can it get than that? Ranking up champions will change who you get matched against, but that is only likely to hurt winners. It cant hurt to change up your circumstances if you're constantly losing, so you might as well take your chances and rank up your best BG champs, hoping to improve your roster more than you hurt your chances by matching against stronger rosters. If you're stuck in Bronze, what do you have to lose?
Basically, if you have a winning hand you hold your cards, and if you have a losing hand you try to draw new cards. You might still end up with a losing hand, but a chance is still a chance.