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What does Kabam have against mystics champions
BabyMiike
Posts: 1,147 ★★★★
Why does Kabam keep adding new cosmic champs that are immune to nullify? Like the one of the whole points of class advantage it's to have a counter against that class! It's honestly getting ridiculous
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It keeps the game fresh by shaking up the meta, but is annoying because it renders some older champions useless against newer ones.
With Adam Warlock, that makes 2. Galan and Adam. Once A.W comes to the contest, there will be 46 comics. Hardly fits the bill of "keep adding" cosmics. You're overreacting.
Apoc(mutant)=skill
Nimmy(Tech)=Muatant
Kingpin(skill)=science
Torch(science)=mystic
Hercules/Galan(Cosmic)=Tech
Apoc can certainly beat Kingpin, but it gets a bit uphill in longer matches (KP can't exchange his eight Rage debuffs for Overpower. So he just goes to nine Rage... Ten Rage... And gets more and more Attack+Combat Power as he stacks them up). You're better off using Bishop, who can Parry Kingpin to death without even landing a hit.
Nimrod can beat Bishop, but he's going to take serious Feedback damage doing it. You're better off using options like War Machine, Vulture or Punisher-2099
Torch can beat Absorbing Man and Mephisto but has to play it right and use his Prefight on the latter. Void and Quake work beautifully, and can both win without landing a hit.
Galan don't have any particular advantage against most non-armour champs like Rocket, Yondu, Star Lord. One of my favourite options for dealing with him on defense is with Punisher-2099.
Kingpin manages debuffs incredibly well, but there are much better Skill options if you're fighting Electro or MODOK.
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Personally, I'm not particularly bothered about Adam Warlock having access to immunity to Nullify, Neutralise and so on. Mordo, Chavez, Loki, Mojo and Dragon Man will get around that just fine, since they don't rely on removing or preventing buffs.
What i really don't like is the highly specific vulnerability to something (Soul Barb) that only one champion in the game does. Designing a champion with such a specific counter doesn't really seem healthy for game balance, in a game where you acquire champions (largely) randomly.
I'm sure there'll be a new champion coming in the next few months who has Soul Barb, but that's not really the best solution for most of us.
However, lately things have begun to change. We've seen cosmic champions be immune to nullify, which means that other ways to deal with their buffs are necessary. Tigra and Mojo are still viable options, but we've gotten more options as well. I enjoy Rintrah, Absorbing Man and Wiccan because they interact with buffs in a different way.
And now we have another evolution within the Cosmic class. I'm all for that as long as it leads to another evolution within the Mystic class as well. I think it will, and when that happens, it's going to be really fun.
The Mystic class really needed these changes in order to be revitalised.
Notice that Adam is countering nullify, fate seal, neutralise etc, but he is still weak to buff control in other areas, like duration manipulation, buff punishment etc. It’s the same way Galan is still weak to mystics, just not all mystics.
This isn’t Adam fighting up against the class wheel, this is him iterating the class wheel. Creating a new challenge for mystics to overcome, whether that’s Mojo’s buff duration control, Chavez’ punishment, Claire’s buff immunity, soul barb, potency reduction etc.
As pointed out before, it’s the same way Peni changed life for the cosmic class. It used to be “have buffs” and you counter techs. Whether that was specific buffs, like true strike for guardian/IMIW, or just unique ones for Warlock/Psychoman. But peni came along and cancelled out that, true strike didn’t work, and challenged you to have power burn immunity, or an autoblock counter outside of what we had before - unblockable, undermine etc. It’s why Hulkling, Galan and Gorr all came out after, to counter Peni.
Peni was a great thing for the cosmic/tech relationship, and a great example of how changing meta dynamics is a good thing. Now the cosmic requirement isn't just have buffs, but also watch out for power burn/drain. And future ant man took that a little further with pierce being a counter to him, and also Peni.
The same is happening to mystic, when we had neutralise added, that was an addition to the class dynamic. It changed how mystics countered cosmics in a pro-attacker way. But now with 3 strong neutralisers and purgatory, cosmic needed something to bite back, or the class dynamic stays weighted on the attacker. We can’t just have it one way where our class attackers (mystics) are always easily countering defenders (cosmics) or it gets stale and boring. New cosmic defender added? Can I nullify? Great, done.
We have a few options to counter Adam already, and more will be added in the future. (I’m also ignoring the fact that Adam isn’t particularly hard to fight, he can be annoying but he’s not Peni levels when she was added).
“Like the one of the whole points of class advantage it's to have a counter against that class”
Yes, but it’s not the point of class advantage to completely counter everything the other class can do, and never let them have any sort of counter, or challenge them to grow as a class whatsoever. Nullify, stagger, fateseal, neutralise are not the only ways mystics punish buffs. There are many more ways, and many more to come in the future.
TL:DR Class relationship is important to iterate, Adam isn’t countering “the mystic class” he’s countering an aspect of the mystic class, and allowing for room for growth in the dynamic.
Not to mention it doesn't (or didn't) used to count for certain nodes where you have to stop X amount of buffs can't remember the exact path but people with Tigra were really upset about it.
Think of it like this. You’re using Nick fury against colossus, you have 100% concussion on you and you hit colossus with a medium attack which would trigger a bleed. Does this cause an “immune” call out?
It doesn’t, because the ability accuracy of your bleed is reduced to 0, so even though colossus *would* be immune to the bleed, the bleed never triggers, so how can he be immune to it.
Now replace Nick with Titania, colossus with rintrah, bleed with dex buff and concussion with neutralise.
You try to dex with Titania, but neutralise reduces your ability accuracy to 0. Is there an immune call out when Titania dexes? No, because the buff never attempts to trigger, because neutralise stops it.
Because Rintrah has failed a buff, he then gains mystical charges and power gain.
Buff immunity getting punished for attempting to gain buffs seems silly on the surface reading, but the second you think about what is really happening here, and in other parts of the game, it makes a ton of sense.
Neutralize prevents buffs from being triggered. So logically, neutralize will prevent buffs from being triggered even in cases where the target of those buffs would have been immune to them. People who think this is a mess want these effects to work in the most beneficial way, not in the way that makes the most sense mechanically, in the most straight forward step by step manner. They appeal to higher purpose. This effect was put in the game to specifically benefit me in a specific way. But game mechanics are not put into games to serve higher purpose. They are put into the game to work in a specific self consistent way to allow designers to create content with them
Also when it didn't count for preventing buffs on a path a few months ago it was working fine? But now it prevents buffs on buff immune it was also fine? 🤔
Also, good explanation. It’s just like the MCOC developers stated in the livestream, they introduce difficult defenders with counters planned to release in the near future. For now we’ll have to deal with Adam using what we have: mordo, mojo, Clair, abs man, etc.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we get 2 or 3 soul barb champions who counter his kit throughout the rest of 2023/early 2024.
Your second paragraph needs more context. If the champion has any sort of increased ability accuracy then neutralise will not always suffice