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Arena top grinder

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    ThomildoThomildo Posts: 456 ★★★
    Master of multitasking, i envy that guy..
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    obsidimanobsidiman Posts: 763 ★★★
    I would think his 1.2+ million PvP wins would raise a red flag or two. That's close to double the next highest number I've seen in game.

    I'm not going to figure the math but the time numbers for that amount of PvP wins is staggering.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    edited July 2023

    DNA3000 said:

    How difficult is it to divide the number of arena fights by the number of active days and ban everyone who exceeds a certain threshold?

    Sounds simple, and it is, and it doesn't work. If we attempt to use a simplistic criteria like that and then, as the poster above you suggests just ban them instantly on the basis of that criteria, the bot operators will instantly know what the criteria is, and then just tune their bots to do one less round than that.

    That is, essentially, the cat and mouse game they have been playing. Every time you ban a bot, you leak information to the bot operators about the criteria you are using to ban them. If you ban on one simplistic criteria and you ban them as soon as they satisfy that criteria, you tell them how to avoid that criteria in the future. You'll catch one excessive idiot today, and miss everyone else tomorrow.

    This guy is not the real problem. He's dumb enough to bot while waving a giant flag in the air that says "look at me, I'm botting the game." We can get him any time. Most botters are not quite that stupid, and they react to bans by trying to figure out the criteria that was used to find them. You compare the bots that survived against the bots that got banned, and look for the thresholds at play. And since accounts are free, bots are free. You can just start over.

    Years ago the bot farms were making a very stupid error that had nothing to do with how many hours a day they were operating, and lots of them were banned because of it. However (and this is a deduction because I haven't been told this directly) they figured it out and now very few are caught because of this mistake. The bans themselves eventually told them by process of elimination what they were doing that made them stick out like a sore thumb. And now they don't do this thing. I myself am not a botter so this didn't even occur to me until I was troubleshooting a completely independent problem with the game and stumbled across what I now believe to be a once and former anti-cheat tactic.

    The bot operators are not the brightest bulbs in the box, but they aren't complete idiots and they do learn and evolve. The tactics of how they are detected *and* how they are banned have also had to evolve to counter their ability to mutate to avoid detection.
    Actually it is that simple. You’re over complicating a very simple issue. This is not a solution for constant monitoring. It’s a one time sweep of prior arenas up until this point.

    Perma ban those accounts then figure out a nuanced way forward.
    The problem isn't just that it would be a temporary solution, it would also be a permanent problem. If cheaters find out exactly how many fights they need to fly under the radar, they'll just do that every time. There comes a cutoff point where Kabam will not ban a player for being too active, because what they achieve will seem difficult but too doable to ban them over. If they find out what that point is, catching them will forever be much more difficult. Just finding another solution isn't exactly an idea worth causing a permanent problem over.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,831 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    How difficult is it to divide the number of arena fights by the number of active days and ban everyone who exceeds a certain threshold?

    Sounds simple, and it is, and it doesn't work. If we attempt to use a simplistic criteria like that and then, as the poster above you suggests just ban them instantly on the basis of that criteria, the bot operators will instantly know what the criteria is, and then just tune their bots to do one less round than that.

    That is, essentially, the cat and mouse game they have been playing. Every time you ban a bot, you leak information to the bot operators about the criteria you are using to ban them. If you ban on one simplistic criteria and you ban them as soon as they satisfy that criteria, you tell them how to avoid that criteria in the future. You'll catch one excessive idiot today, and miss everyone else tomorrow.

    This guy is not the real problem. He's dumb enough to bot while waving a giant flag in the air that says "look at me, I'm botting the game." We can get him any time. Most botters are not quite that stupid, and they react to bans by trying to figure out the criteria that was used to find them. You compare the bots that survived against the bots that got banned, and look for the thresholds at play. And since accounts are free, bots are free. You can just start over.

    Years ago the bot farms were making a very stupid error that had nothing to do with how many hours a day they were operating, and lots of them were banned because of it. However (and this is a deduction because I haven't been told this directly) they figured it out and now very few are caught because of this mistake. The bans themselves eventually told them by process of elimination what they were doing that made them stick out like a sore thumb. And now they don't do this thing. I myself am not a botter so this didn't even occur to me until I was troubleshooting a completely independent problem with the game and stumbled across what I now believe to be a once and former anti-cheat tactic.

    The bot operators are not the brightest bulbs in the box, but they aren't complete idiots and they do learn and evolve. The tactics of how they are detected *and* how they are banned have also had to evolve to counter their ability to mutate to avoid detection.
    Actually it is that simple. You’re over complicating a very simple issue. This is not a solution for constant monitoring. It’s a one time sweep of prior arenas up until this point.

    Perma ban those accounts then figure out a nuanced way forward.
    If only I thought of that. Oh wait, I suggested that to Kabam already. Although, even this is not simple. It is simple to say ban everyone that exceeds a certain threshold, but which threshold? And divide which count by which days? And then just perma ban them all? On whose authority? You think a dev can just write a script to do this and just ban whoever they want without oversight?

    If you just want to catch a couple idiots, fantastic. But that wouldn't be worth anyone's time. If you're going to do this at all, you should actually try to land more impact than just catching the handful of morons who have been running bots for twenty nine hours a day. And that requires "overcomplicating things" in the real world.
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    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 781 ★★★★
    I thought the recent 7-day ban wave was to send a message. Was this account banned in that last wave? If it was, the cat is out of the bag on it being detected so just permanently ban it now that they’ve done it in another arena…

    If it wasn’t in that ban wave, how was it missed with those account stats?

    I get the cat and mouse game and all the other context but it’s not lining up with what many were saying recently about permanent bans coming if they cheated again.
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    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 781 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    zuffy said:

    Some of these are high profile accounts are so obvious you don’t need a complex detection system to perm ban them. All these talk of we’re keeping an eye on it, 7 days ban non sense did nothing to stop the cheaters.

    Exactly right, it’s not like they can rewind the odometer.

    Figure out what a reasonable threshold is (look up someone very active like Brian Grant, add 50%) and ban everyone above it. This will clean up the game tremendously and allow them to have a cleaner base to build their new tech on.

    I suspect the real reason they won’t do this is that half of masters and Plat 1 would be wiped out.
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    laserjohn26laserjohn26 Posts: 1,519 ★★★★★

    zuffy said:

    Some of these are high profile accounts are so obvious you don’t need a complex detection system to perm ban them. All these talk of we’re keeping an eye on it, 7 days ban non sense did nothing to stop the cheaters.

    Exactly right, it’s not like they can rewind the odometer.

    Figure out what a reasonable threshold is (look up someone very active like Brian Grant, add 50%) and ban everyone above it. This will clean up the game tremendously and allow them to have a cleaner base to build their new tech on.

    I suspect the real reason they won’t do this is that half of masters and Plat 1 would be wiped out.
    It's more prestige alliances that cheat in arena. There is some overlap but not that much. For instance tcn finishes in masters when they don't get docked for piloting but they just buy a masters placement with the millions of units they steal. There are zero actual good players in tcn, the only guy who finished high in bg from tcn got banned for cheating in that mode. Actually a good start would be to just ban everyone in tcn, they are all guilty by Rico standards.
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    SammyDeSammyDe Posts: 918 ★★★
    That probably means they spend quite a bit on the game to not want to ban them. Also to be this blatant, they could be someone up high in the food chain like Walt or Kevin? Let me take that tin foil hat off…
    Or he does have all the infinity stones and the team don’t want to ban him in case he snaps all of us out of existence! So we should be grateful that we are still here with only on arena bot in the whole game.
    Wait, the hat is still on!
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    WayWorn2525WayWorn2525 Posts: 825 ★★★
    2nd place for silver centerion and 6th for yellow jacket.

    He's slipping a bit for yellow jacket. He might be human after all

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    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 781 ★★★★

    2nd place for silver centerion and 6th for yellow jacket.

    He's slipping a bit for yellow jacket. He might be human after all

    How embarrassing. Talk about a fall from grace.

    As much as I support Kabam when they do good, I'd be highly embarrassed if I run this game. Can't wait for the inevitable cluster**** during the BattleRealm Brawl event.
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    BayouemBayouem Posts: 98
    Imagine how much he will be able to get for this account when he turns around and sells it to a whale. Loaded with bcs and every six star. This summoner has created a new revenue stream.
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    ChiliDogChiliDog Posts: 884 ★★★
    edited July 2023
    Unless there is some short term master plan by Kabam and waiting for sales to end and weekend to be over(...don't laugh), this guy and the many other cheaters in arena and BGs like them are making Kabam all look like idiots or they really don't care as long as $$ rolling in. We shall see....

    The bans need to be every going on every event. I'm really worn out with the cheating on top of the input issues. One may be difficult. This one takes 10 seconds to realize.
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    MagicBentonMagicBenton Posts: 283 ★★★
    Kabam Jax said:

    The team has eyes on this.

    What good does this do if it doesn't result in a ban? He's still active, along with all the other blatant botters. How long do you need to keep "eyes on this" before you take action? It's such absurdly blatant botting, what more proof do you need?

    Meanwhile legit grinders are losing out on rewards they should have earned. Ridiculous.
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    Ghost_FanGhost_Fan Posts: 273 ★★★
    Does anyone really believe that this guy is gonna get a permanent ban? If so, sorry to break the news to you but you are delusional
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    vz2fbxvz2fbx Posts: 89
    Ghost_Fan said:

    Does anyone really believe that this guy is gonna get a permanent ban? If so, sorry to break the news to you but you are delusional

    He is MCOC god. We shall follow his footstep. Kabam shall send him more gifts.
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    vz2fbxvz2fbx Posts: 89
    Eventually, Kabam makes him stop being online 24/7. It is not good for his health. Thank you Kabam for taking care of his well-being :)@Kabam Miike Thank you.


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    NukeNuke Posts: 67
    It’s not his first account. He must jack it up and sell it. Rinse and repeat. Kabam should care but they don’t. And we suffer. They think it’ll blow over amidst the next issue. C’mon.
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    Nuke said:

    It’s not his first account. He must jack it up and sell it. Rinse and repeat. Kabam should care but they don’t. And we suffer. They think it’ll blow over amidst the next issue. C’mon.

    Read the thread kabam posted. This dude is permabanned
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    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 781 ★★★★

    Nuke said:

    It’s not his first account. He must jack it up and sell it. Rinse and repeat. Kabam should care but they don’t. And we suffer. They think it’ll blow over amidst the next issue. C’mon.

    Read the thread kabam posted. This dude is permabanned
    I think the more accurate statement is that this account is permanently banned.

    Hopefully Kabam have a way to detect and prevent this type of cheating going forward.

    Whether they can stop the person behind this account from making a new account is less clear.
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    WayWorn2525WayWorn2525 Posts: 825 ★★★
    If a player is permabanned, does that mean the account won't be found in the search menu? I still see the alleged cheater during a search.
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    SyndicatedSyndicated Posts: 589 ★★★
    edited July 2023

    If a player is permabanned, does that mean the account won't be found in the search menu? I still see the alleged cheater during a search.

    Yeah, You can still finding him, but You can check last time logged in yo verify if is banned or not
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    The_only_leaderThe_only_leader Posts: 112
    I’d like to see how many point top player put up in each arena. I bet 60-70 mil, especially for lady death strike. I wish I had the time to grind like that haha. He or she is a true beast.
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