The buff program (the initial one that saw so many useless champs get an account changing revamp for those who owned them) was the most exciting thing in mcoc, while it lasted.
@Kabam Miike why does no one see a post like this and jump in to give us some information, at this point I would go as far to say that we should actually deserve something. It’s so silent it’s scary, and there’s a 3 month track event coming up which is going to cost £30.
At least communicate with us on things, even the roadmaps have gone, there used to be so many encouraging posts about being open with us and so forth and I’ve no idea what’s happened.
Well, I kind of agree with the sentiment; but expecting a response here and now, in this thread is unlikely: this is a forum for us to discuss the game amongst ourselves, not a direct line to the Dev team.
I wouldn't especially expect a forum mod to comment any time soon.
It's conceivable, if a few threads like this got traction (and there are YouTube videos by people like KT1 on this subject too, recently) that the perspectives shared in it might come up at a meeting some time, and there might be some kind of update at some time, or maybe in a Livestream, or something.
I wouldn't expect anything more than that: the mods will monitor this kind of conversation, but don't expect them to get involved unless/until they've got something to say.
Yeah I agree with what your saying, I would just like to think if I was a mod, I would 100% want to jump in and give the players some news, even if it isn’t great.
All we have recently are if, buts and maybes, but no solid answers etc.
Just a shame, but you’re right, we can’t expect replies all the time, just some subjects should at least maybe warrant some to a degree 🤷🏻♂️
@Kabam Miike why does no one see a post like this and jump in to give us some information, at this point I would go as far to say that we should actually deserve something. It’s so silent it’s scary, and there’s a 3 month track event coming up which is going to cost £30.
At least communicate with us on things, even the roadmaps have gone, there used to be so many encouraging posts about being open with us and so forth and I’ve no idea what’s happened.
Well, I kind of agree with the sentiment; but expecting a response here and now, in this thread is unlikely: this is a forum for us to discuss the game amongst ourselves, not a direct line to the Dev team.
I wouldn't especially expect a forum mod to comment any time soon.
It's conceivable, if a few threads like this got traction (and there are YouTube videos by people like KT1 on this subject too, recently) that the perspectives shared in it might come up at a meeting some time, and there might be some kind of update at some time, or maybe in a Livestream, or something.
I wouldn't expect anything more than that: the mods will monitor this kind of conversation, but don't expect them to get involved unless/until they've got something to say.
All we have recently are if, buts and maybes, but no solid answers etc.
Historically, a lot of what Kabam has said publicly has also been taken as a promise, and sometimes one that's held against them by the community (not necessarily always in a super negative way - but any word from them can spawn expectations).
I doubt they wanna commit to anything they can't follow through with. That's happened enough already. Plenty of us are still waiting on Wish Crystals, Masteries 2.0 and the Black Panther (Civil War) buff. Granted, 2 of those were announced via a "Road Map", so they weren't 100% concrete, but my point remains. Something else to be said about this, is that if information is given out too early, what if they decide/need to change things later? Plans change all the time.
I don't think they'd give any response until there IS news to share. I know it's disheartening to hear all the if's, but's, maybe's etc, but I'd like to hear that more than a flat out "no" any day.
Edit: just a standard disclaimer, this message is all my own personal thoughts and speculation. I am purely speaking for myself.
I don't know how to monetize the process, so surely the answer is to reduce costs, basically centering on: reduce the developer time required (and our expectations) -
Build on existing abilities
Keep designs simple (particularly bearing early players in mind)
Use mechanics already in game (e.g. hit counters, abilities that trigger on critical hits, dodges or well-timed blocks; nothing fancy. Don't give Symbiote Spiderman a funky new webbing ability - just repurpose the one you've just used for Classic Spidey)
Avoid graphics changes (or copy/paste animations from another champ, if they're really necessary)
So, reduce costs by reducing the developer load required, and then reduce the beta load by having potentially 4-6 of those buffs per month, and a really interesting beta trying them all out at once.
These are suggestions that they have gotten multiple times over the years. They want to make things harder on themselves for some reason. Maybe because if it was easy, there'd be no excuses and no good reason for foot dragging on it. In that Symbiote Spidey example, they'd totally give him some odd mechanic that no one asked for, take away the few things that people liked, give him that funky new webbing in a way that their prior experience won't help with at all and will be harder to work with in the future. It would take 5 months even though he didn't get new animations and half of his abilities wouldn't work right, and his synergies would need to be changed too because of the new mechanic breaking them.
We're supposed to get buffed champions when there aren't newer champs going through the review process that don't need changes.
Its been a few months in a row now that something has required a change... so no buffs.
while I would love to see more buffed champions... I'd much rather see focus spent on stabilizing that which isn't working first. Buffing Groot doesn't do much good if it there is no alliance wars. Buffing Cyclops/making them different doesn't help much if players can't parry.
While I know there are different teams/members involved... at the end of the day there is a budget for staff, (permanent and possibly temps)... one way or the other you have to rob Paul to pay Peter... and I'd just assume have more focus spent on fixing bugs and game econonmy, and living with "only new champions" for a little while than have more buffed champs.
That also includes "QOL tweaks" noone is asking about... other than how to turn them off, like the new input display. Unless that is a part of a larger effort to "record all fights" for anti-fraud / other reasons... very little good comes from it / much more likely to cause a player to just want to turn it off or possibly be the cause of a bug than to actually be of benefit.
I was hoping something might change with the shocker and sand man balance update, but that didn't happen this time either. It just seems like they're just focused on buffing/fixing new characters, leaving real characters in need of a real buff behind everything. Not that I'm against these improvements but so it starts to be unnerving and also sad to see terrible characters remain totally useless, at this point we no longer have any old character buffs until November, but I'm afraid that time may also increase with the next one balance update, because surely they will find a bug to fix or something and they will pass it off as an improvement to the pg. Not to mention the relic thing, you were carrying some cool relics that was the closest thing to a specific character buff, but now that too is paused and will resume at a later date. I think if you in kabam don't have the desire, time or resources to buff the old characters anymore you should tell us all clearly. @Kabam Miike@kabam Jax
I was hoping the announcement about the decrease in relic release cadence would be an opportunity for them to reallocate those resources to the buff program.
The silence has been deafening though, so I'm guessing that's not gonna be the case.
I'm surprised that Kabam hasn't taken the next step in the monetization of relics by using that as the "Buff Program". For instance, the Sentry relic adds something minor to other champs, but on Sentry, it basically rewrites his abilities and gives them something to sell.
Based on other stuff on this thread i imagined a 1000% buff in attack for psicoman and how ridiculous would it look They kinda did with spidey2099 making spiderman taunts longer and thus more reliable
I'm surprised that Kabam hasn't taken the next step in the monetization of relics by using that as the "Buff Program". For instance, the Sentry relic adds something minor to other champs, but on Sentry, it basically rewrites his abilities and gives them something to sell.
Based on other stuff on this thread i imagined a 1000% buff in attack for psicoman and how ridiculous would it look They kinda did with spidey2099 making spiderman taunts longer and thus more reliable
It takes a great deal of work to rework older Champs. I haven't seen anything official indicating they've stopped. They've also been quite busy as of late. I'm sure we'll hear word of something eventually, but for now, it's not reasonable to assume they've given up.
It takes a great deal of work to rework older Champs. I haven't seen anything official indicating they've stopped. They've also been quite busy as of late. I'm sure we'll hear word of something eventually, but for now, it's not reasonable to assume they've given up.
The question is when? Until the game is closed?
A fire doesn't tell you when it's gone out, guys.
I'm quoting the end summary from each of the rebalancing announcements here on the forums since October last year (my words are in italics): Hulkling and Wiccan With Hulkling needing no changes and Wiccan only needing a small one, we had the time to invest in a value-only update for someone else, too–Iron Man (Infinity War)
Gorr & Valkyrie Like last month, we had enough time to pair Gorr’s changes with another small value-only update… America Chavez!
Galan & Quicksilver (Neither needed a change) What’s next? We’re going to be working on giving Hulk (Classic) a brand new kit!
Titania & iDoom (Neither needed a change) What’s next? We’re still in the early stages, but will be working on a brand new kit for Spider-Man (Classic) to follow Hulk (Classic)’s new kit!
Spidey Supreme & Spot (Neither needed a change) What’s Next? We’re currently working on a lighter update to Iceman! We’ll be looking to bring his base damage up and make some tweaks to his Utility. Yes, he will be Immune to Coldsnap.
Attuma & Shuri What’s Next? Tuneups for both Characters! (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Mantis & Jessica Jones What’s Next A Mantis tuneup! (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Zemo & Abs man What’s Next? Changes for both Characters! As mentioned before, we don’t have their changes locked in and are still working on them. (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Future Ant-Man & Cassie Lang What’s Next? A balance cycle to add Glancing effects for Ant-Man (Future)! (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else, even before noticing Cassie's bugged Taunt ability)
Viv Vision & Kate Bishop What’s Next Viv Vision’s timeline will look like: 41.0 (August) + 41.1 (September) Beta 42.0 (October): Full release with changes (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Sandman and Shocker What's Next Changes to both Shocker and Sandman! Their timeline will look like: 41.1 (September) + 41.2 (October) Beta builds 41.3 (November): Full release with changes (And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
So, the relationship between new champion balancing and old champion reworks is quite apparent. Suggesting otherwise is to be disingenuous.
It's now been six months since any work was planned for a single older champion. Three older champion reworks in the last nine months, and six in the last twelve months (if we go right back to Juggernaut, in August 2022).
The buff program isn't going to be officially 'cancelled'. And maybe two or three times a year, maybe we'll get a buff, when there's a bit of spare time.
Comments
All we have recently are if, buts and maybes, but no solid answers etc.
Just a shame, but you’re right, we can’t expect replies all the time, just some subjects should at least maybe warrant some to a degree 🤷🏻♂️
I doubt they wanna commit to anything they can't follow through with. That's happened enough already. Plenty of us are still waiting on Wish Crystals, Masteries 2.0 and the Black Panther (Civil War) buff. Granted, 2 of those were announced via a "Road Map", so they weren't 100% concrete, but my point remains. Something else to be said about this, is that if information is given out too early, what if they decide/need to change things later? Plans change all the time.
I don't think they'd give any response until there IS news to share. I know it's disheartening to hear all the if's, but's, maybe's etc, but I'd like to hear that more than a flat out "no" any day.
Edit: just a standard disclaimer, this message is all my own personal thoughts and speculation. I am purely speaking for myself.
In that Symbiote Spidey example, they'd totally give him some odd mechanic that no one asked for, take away the few things that people liked, give him that funky new webbing in a way that their prior experience won't help with at all and will be harder to work with in the future. It would take 5 months even though he didn't get new animations and half of his abilities wouldn't work right, and his synergies would need to be changed too because of the new mechanic breaking them.
Its been a few months in a row now that something has required a change... so no buffs.
while I would love to see more buffed champions... I'd much rather see focus spent on stabilizing that which isn't working first. Buffing Groot doesn't do much good if it there is no alliance wars. Buffing Cyclops/making them different doesn't help much if players can't parry.
While I know there are different teams/members involved... at the end of the day there is a budget for staff, (permanent and possibly temps)... one way or the other you have to rob Paul to pay Peter... and I'd just assume have more focus spent on fixing bugs and game econonmy, and living with "only new champions" for a little while than have more buffed champs.
That also includes "QOL tweaks" noone is asking about... other than how to turn them off, like the new input display. Unless that is a part of a larger effort to "record all fights" for anti-fraud / other reasons... very little good comes from it / much more likely to cause a player to just want to turn it off or possibly be the cause of a bug than to actually be of benefit.
It just seems like they're just focused on buffing/fixing new characters, leaving real characters in need of a real buff behind everything.
Not that I'm against these improvements but so it starts to be unnerving and also sad to see terrible characters remain totally useless, at this point we no longer have any old character buffs until November, but I'm afraid that time may also increase with the next one balance update, because surely they will find a bug to fix or something and they will pass it off as an improvement to the pg.
Not to mention the relic thing, you were carrying some cool relics that was the closest thing to a specific character buff, but now that too is paused and will resume at a later date.
I think if you in kabam don't have the desire, time or resources to buff the old characters anymore you should tell us all clearly.
@Kabam Miike @kabam Jax
The silence has been deafening though, so I'm guessing that's not gonna be the case.
They kinda did with spidey2099 making spiderman taunts longer and thus more reliable
I'm quoting the end summary from each of the rebalancing announcements here on the forums since October last year (my words are in italics):
Hulkling and Wiccan
With Hulkling needing no changes and Wiccan only needing a small one, we had the time to invest in a value-only update for someone else, too–Iron Man (Infinity War)
Gorr & Valkyrie
Like last month, we had enough time to pair Gorr’s changes with another small value-only update… America Chavez!
Galan & Quicksilver
(Neither needed a change)
What’s next?
We’re going to be working on giving Hulk (Classic) a brand new kit!
Titania & iDoom
(Neither needed a change)
What’s next?
We’re still in the early stages, but will be working on a brand new kit for Spider-Man (Classic) to follow Hulk (Classic)’s new kit!
Spidey Supreme & Spot
(Neither needed a change)
What’s Next?
We’re currently working on a lighter update to Iceman! We’ll be looking to bring his base damage up and make some tweaks to his Utility. Yes, he will be Immune to Coldsnap.
Attuma & Shuri
What’s Next?
Tuneups for both Characters!
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Mantis & Jessica Jones
What’s Next
A Mantis tuneup!
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Zemo & Abs man
What’s Next?
Changes for both Characters! As mentioned before, we don’t have their changes locked in and are still working on them.
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Future Ant-Man & Cassie Lang
What’s Next?
A balance cycle to add Glancing effects for Ant-Man (Future)!
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else, even before noticing Cassie's bugged Taunt ability)
Viv Vision & Kate Bishop
What’s Next
Viv Vision’s timeline will look like:
41.0 (August) + 41.1 (September) Beta
42.0 (October): Full release with changes
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
Sandman and Shocker
What's Next
Changes to both Shocker and Sandman! Their timeline will look like:
41.1 (September) + 41.2 (October) Beta builds
41.3 (November): Full release with changes
(And, sadly, no time left for any other changes to anyone else)
So, the relationship between new champion balancing and old champion reworks is quite apparent. Suggesting otherwise is to be disingenuous.
It's now been six months since any work was planned for a single older champion. Three older champion reworks in the last nine months, and six in the last twelve months (if we go right back to Juggernaut, in August 2022).
The buff program isn't going to be officially 'cancelled'. And maybe two or three times a year, maybe we'll get a buff, when there's a bit of spare time.
But as an active 'program'?
It's done.
One month add a special quest.
One add a Varient
One add some special arenas, they must be easy to sort.
and then 3 months worth of old champs can be balanced, updated etc