Battlegrounds needs balancing

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Comments

  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,954 ★★★★★

    There is little competition in a preset outcome.

    WTF does this even mean? How, exactly, is BGs a preset outcome?
  • A_FungiA_Fungi Member Posts: 999 ★★★★
    I can't believe this thread is still so heated. Like a dog chasing its tail at this point.
  • WinterFieldsWinterFields Member Posts: 786 ★★★★

    There is little competition in a preset outcome.

    WTF does this even mean? How, exactly, is BGs a preset outcome?
    I'm assuming he means that "unequal" matches are guaranteed losses which takes away any chance of truly competing. However, that's not a valid assumption, as I have beaten many accounts that are much stronger than mine
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★

    I doubt people are brute forcing their way through. Perhaps they are, but eventually they will hit a roadblock that way. Personally, I resort to Shields when I'm one Win away from advancing. Quite honestly, it's less infuriating than up and down and up and down.
    Kabam has determined that people are ready when they meet the requirements. Unless they change, that's what we're looking at.

    Some people just go on 15+ match winning streaks to get out of the VT. That's what I did and would recommend to everyone else. Of course to do that I've spent years building my roster and skills by clearing all the content in the game. If someone chooses not to put in the time and effort, I don't want to hear their sob story about no being able to compete in a competition.
    I've seen some pompous responses on here, but this one takes the cake.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    edited August 2023

    I doubt people are brute forcing their way through. Perhaps they are, but eventually they will hit a roadblock that way. Personally, I resort to Shields when I'm one Win away from advancing. Quite honestly, it's less infuriating than up and down and up and down.
    Kabam has determined that people are ready when they meet the requirements. Unless they change, that's what we're looking at.

    Some people just go on 15+ match winning streaks to get out of the VT. That's what I did and would recommend to everyone else. Of course to do that I've spent years building my roster and skills by clearing all the content in the game. If someone chooses not to put in the time and effort, I don't want to hear their sob story about no being able to compete in a competition.
    I've seen some pompous responses on here, but this one takes the cake.
    No more pompous than refusing to put in the time and effort that I have and demanding the same rewards.
    Rewards aren't the only issue.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★

    I doubt people are brute forcing their way through. Perhaps they are, but eventually they will hit a roadblock that way. Personally, I resort to Shields when I'm one Win away from advancing. Quite honestly, it's less infuriating than up and down and up and down.
    Kabam has determined that people are ready when they meet the requirements. Unless they change, that's what we're looking at.

    Some people just go on 15+ match winning streaks to get out of the VT. That's what I did and would recommend to everyone else. Of course to do that I've spent years building my roster and skills by clearing all the content in the game. If someone chooses not to put in the time and effort, I don't want to hear their sob story about no being able to compete in a competition.
    I've seen some pompous responses on here, but this one takes the cake.
    No more pompous than refusing to put in the time and effort that I have and demanding the same rewards.
    Rewards aren't the only issue.
    Rewards are the only issue. If it wasn't you'd just play friendlies and stop complaining about not being able to rank in the VT.
    Why is everything personal to you? I'm in my 40s. I'm not a child. Not every comment I make is self-serving. I'm talking about the game mode as a whole. That game mode includes a range of Players, and no matter how you protest it, they're going to be in it. Unless something drastic changes, they're there. Which means you can't tell everyone and anyone who isn't as "skilled" as you are that their progress in the competition doesn't matter.
    I mean, you can. You just don't add anything productive.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Member Posts: 1,096 ★★★★

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    If I repeat multiple times I'm not talking about my own situation specifically and people keep making pointed judgments about me and where I'm at, then it's not my reading comprehension in question.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    If you want to keep repeating that narrative, then I'm not going to respond to it. It has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
  • Vergeman78Vergeman78 Member Posts: 133 ★★
    This feels like a GW against the world thread. Lemme get my popcorn. But maybe you should wonder why you are the only white knight fighting this battle.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Member Posts: 1,096 ★★★★

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
  • AIRxJ0RDANx23xAIRxJ0RDANx23x Member Posts: 21
    I wish kabam would just get rid of the hand holding at lower tiers. I'm paragon and only fight other paragon players in bronze tier. What's the point of having to climb though low level tiers if you are only fighting people at the same progression level. Victory track should either be a free for all or automatically start everyone at different tiers based on progression level.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,033 ★★★★★

    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
    Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★

    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
    Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
    I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
    Your very first sentence begs to differ.

    "No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
    Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,033 ★★★★★

    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
    Your concern is UC,Cav,TB will quit the game mode because they can't succeed in a competition, what I am going to say might sound horrible; but do you think active Paragons who in a way set the pace of the game really care if UC and Cavs quit BGs? We never face them anyway.
    I said they will stop caring about BGs. If you think the game mode doesn't depend on a range of Players for Matchmaking, you would be wrong.
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    I like how people don't even read what I say and then make condemnations based on their own narratives. Honestly, it's useless even discussing it when that's all they hear.

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    Well that's been one of my points all along. If you allow those Players to participate and make it fruitless, they're going to drop off. No one wants to play something they're not able to have much progress in at all. Sure, some people will keep trying. Not when you make anything from Gold 1 and up nothing short of consecutive Wins. W-W-L-W-L-L-W-W-L-W......ad nauseum.
    My argument isn't solely about Rewards, but they're always a factor in these cases. It's impossible to discuss a competition without them. That isn't an indication I want much smaller Players to have more. Would I be okay with that? If they earned them, absolutely. That's just not what I'm talking about. This idea that lower Accounts don't deserve to move ahead is just not in my vernacular. I've been beaten by smaller Accounts. I would suspect they're Alts for seasoned Players in many cases. Sometimes they get lucky and just play better than me. It happens, and I don't take personal injury from it.
    I'm not saying I think lower Players should get better Rewards. I don't know why that keeps being the focus. I'm not saying higher Players should either. I'm saying people SHOULD have a reasonable start to their journey and earn the Rewards they earn. You can't have a competition and then weight it so heavily to one side, and call it a competition. GC, sure. Both VT and GC, and that's just greedy.

    You can earn 17,100 trophy tokens climbing from the start up to Platinum, where lower accounts tend to hit a wall.

    If they don't try to race there in one day, instead choosing to play a few matches each time the objectives pop up, they can probably get a few thousand more. Then even when they hit their wall, they can still compete to get the completion objectives each time they show.

    I'd venture to say that even a low level account could get about 25,000 tokens in a season. That's not even taking into account the solo and alliance event quests that give even more rewards.

    That number of tokens can get plenty of t5b, t2a, t4c, etc, necessary to rank up champs for the next season.

    So where is this notion that low level accounts are being excluded from rewards coming from?

    Is it that they're not getting enough? If so, what's the right amount of rewards for an Uncollected or Cav account to receive in a single season?

    I'd suggest that this is perfectly reasonable, as the goal is NOT to catapult these players accounts so high that they steamroll the story content designed for progression and learning how the game is played.
    Their Rewards are not up for group concensus. They're up to Kabam, and that's why they're limited in the BG Store based on what is available to them. Also, we have UC and Cav Accounts with R3s and 7*s now, so that's really moot.
    So the rewards are decided by Kabam, and as pointed out, virtually anyone can get about 25,000 tokens as they climb to their peak, so that's obviously what Kabam has decided is reasonable for those summoner.

    To your comment regarding UC and Cavs having 6*R3 and 7*, I don't know what that has to do with anything. Just because they have them doesn't mean they've reached a point where they need them as r4 or r2.

    But even still, they have the opportunity to save those tokens each season to buy t6b, t3a, and t6c when they have enough. No one is stopping them from doing that.

    There's 16 year old kids with sports cars. That doesn't mean they should be racing in the Indy 500.
    No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever. For that matter, I can hold on to Glory for years, but I can only buy what's accessible to me, and at what cost, NOW. Not down the road.
    Also, that view sounds more self-serving than anything. Is the concern what is best for their Accounts, or trying to keep them from progressing when they come up? Sounds more to me like people want to keep others frozen where they're at.
    The game and what we deem appropriate for a UC or Cav Player, have changed now. That's my point in indicating they have 7*s and higher Champs. When you or I were at that level, things were different. It's past the point of trying to keep them from getting those Resources, and when they're available to them through the Store, evidently Kabam considers it acceptable.
    The majority of this argument is based on "what we feel they deserve", and it's not our call to make. It's not up to us, and it's not up to a Kangaroo Court to decide what lower Players get and what they don't get.
    So now we've come full circle to the topic I've debated you on in the past.

    Progression.

    If someone's spending power is diminished in the BG store, that is ONLY that individuals fault. As you well know, story content is targeted for progression. It's why every progressive title has a tie to story content completion.

    BGs is a competitive mode, against everyone who plays the game, meant to reward those (very nicely) who can climb the highest. Although you can choose to spend those rewarded tokens on items to rank up champs, it is not, and never has been, intended to be a path to progression where everyone gets 7*r2 champs from the rewards.

    So here we are again, reiterating that BGs is for everyone, and everyone is given the opportunity to compete. If you hit a wall based on the strength of your account, you need to make a choice:

    A) Be content with the wall you hit

    B) Take advantage of the countless other game modes to advance your account while continuing to make a best effort in BGs.

    Bottom line, everyone is afforded the same opportunities in this game. What you do with those opportunities is a matter of choice though, and not one that should be rewarded if you choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given.
    This has nothing to do with what I said at all.
    Your very first sentence begs to differ.

    "No one who is trying to progress is going to hold on to Tokens forever."
    Yes, people who are trying to advance their Accounts are going to use them to hit Cav/Tb/Para. Not hoard them. That's logical.
    Why does the range matter when players like myself never get to face them?...
    So UCs I have not been able to face in 10 season and been matching each other will affect me how?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★

    Honest,y I have no idea what I'm going to do when players who will never make it to my level quit playing BGs. All those matches that would never happen will go away. It will have a HUGE affect on my and others at the top.

    Yes, because they never meet anyone in Plat, and the only priority is when you look for a Match.
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