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How exactly is Herc bad for the game?

245

Comments

  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,302 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 2,664 ★★★★★
    edited January 28

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    I think everyone here knows why, let's not try to come up with another reason other than the obvious one cause deep inside we all know lol he gets ascended cause he's broken.
    Even that's a white lie...
    Everyone ascended Hercules on the assumption that he will never be released as a 7* comming from the Quake and Magik experience. Kitty Pride might be on that list as well... Which makes for the 2 most common ascensions.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    I think everyone here knows why, let's not try to come up with another reason other than the obvious one cause deep inside we all know lol he gets ascended cause he's broken.
    Even that's a white lie...
    Everyone ascended Hercules on the assumption that he will never be released as a 7* comming from the Quake and Magik experience. Kitty Pride might be on that list as well... Which makes for the 2 most common ascensions.
    And why is it that he will never be a 7*? Cause he's broken, I'm not saying him being broken is the only reason I'm sure some have other reasons, but him being broken is the main one and the root of the problem. Him being stuck as a 6* for the rest of the game's existence is the byproduct of him being broken.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
  • PandingoPandingo Posts: 711 ★★★
    He isn't. Logically he just isn't. Story content. Which is finite. AQ which is the worst thing in mcoc. And incursions. Where imo he shines and makes them super fun rather than a chore
  • Skydad23Skydad23 Posts: 539 ★★★

    I admit that he's busted, but precisely how is his existence bad for the game?

    1. Content

    EQ is not difficult and is built around classes anyway
    Story content has been easy for years
    He's blacklisted and banned in war most of the time, and globals are making him less relevant
    AQ is a slog so let us have him
    He's not affecting Everest content like necropolis and carina objectives target specific classes and champions

    So what content is being ruined because he exists? If he was nerfed would we see a reduction in difficulty that needs less revives? I don't see it.


    2. Herc's effect on player skills

    He's arguably made players less skilled, but we have defenders like photon, maestro, onslaught, and bullseye that players have to get around. If we nerf Herc, players will just move on to using the next busted champ, like Hulkling or somebody else.


    3. Devs lives are much harder

    How much harder are their jobs with him in the game? Are they not able to do things because he exists? What things can they not do?


    You’re right on point!
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    edited January 28
    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,302 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
    So you are trying to dictate how others should play/enjoy the game?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
    So you are trying to dictate how others should play/enjoy the game?
    Not at all but if they want to nerf Herc because he's bad for the game they're free to do so and I'm not going to cry about it.
    If the real reason you rely on Herc is because you enjoy playing him then you have nothing to worry about cause a nerf probably wouldn't change his playstyle, in fact they'd probably just get rid off immortality and leave his damage as is so he can still be the strongest cosmic.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
    So you are trying to dictate how others should play/enjoy the game?
    Not at all but if they want to nerf Herc because he's bad for the game they're free to do so and I'm not going to cry about it.
    If the real reason you rely on Herc is because you enjoy playing him then you have nothing to worry about cause a nerf probably wouldn't change his playstyle, in fact they'd probably just get rid off immortality and leave his damage as is so he can still be the strongest cosmic.
    I honestly don’t give a damn whether they nerf herc or not. I am just talking about your constant habit of calling anyone who uses herc lazy. Can you stop that and focus on the real argument if you have any?
    Why are you so mad about what I say or don't in a forum? Does the shoe fit?

    Anyways, the reason I say what I say is because that's the only logical explanation to some of the whining about a Herc nerf. If you play him because he's fun, a nerf would not affect his playstyle in the slightest so that wouldn't be a reason to be complaining about a nerf, his playstyle isn't broken it's some of his kit (immortality).
    If the reason you play him is because you suck at the game, there are plenty of other champs in the game that are extremely powerful who can get the job done and don't have a high skill ceiling, so in that case a nerf wouldn't affect you either it's not like the game would be unplayable without Herc (which again they wouldn't make Herc trash, they would just take him from broken to #1 in the cosmic class no big deal).
    Therefore, the only other explanation is that you're too lazy to learn other champs so you'd rather just grab the one that's broken and call it a day since he requires zero effort (infuriate allows you to intercept easily) or resources (immortality almost guarantees you'll be able to ko the opponent no matter how much you screw up in the beginning). You get it now or still nothing?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,239 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    If he wasn't overpowered, would we even be having this discussion at the very thought of them changing him?
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,302 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    If he wasn't overpowered, would we even be having this discussion at the very thought of them changing him?
    That comment was directed at the number of ascensions. Can you say with absolute certainty and with proof that the ascensions are solely because herc is OP?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    If he wasn't overpowered, would we even be having this discussion at the very thought of them changing him?
    That comment was directed at the number of ascensions. Can you say with absolute certainty and with proof that the ascensions are solely because herc is OP?
    Not solely but mainly, I don't think anyone can really argue against that cause it's obvious. You don't need proof to state obvious.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,302 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
    So you are trying to dictate how others should play/enjoy the game?
    Not at all but if they want to nerf Herc because he's bad for the game they're free to do so and I'm not going to cry about it.
    If the real reason you rely on Herc is because you enjoy playing him then you have nothing to worry about cause a nerf probably wouldn't change his playstyle, in fact they'd probably just get rid off immortality and leave his damage as is so he can still be the strongest cosmic.
    I honestly don’t give a damn whether they nerf herc or not. I am just talking about your constant habit of calling anyone who uses herc lazy. Can you stop that and focus on the real argument if you have any?
    Why are you so mad about what I say or don't in a forum? Does the shoe fit?

    Anyways, the reason I say what I say is because that's the only logical explanation to some of the whining about a Herc nerf. If you play him because he's fun, a nerf would not affect his playstyle in the slightest so that wouldn't be a reason to be complaining about a nerf, his playstyle isn't broken it's some of his kit (immortality).
    If the reason you play him is because you suck at the game, there are plenty of other champs in the game that are extremely powerful who can get the job done and don't have a high skill ceiling, so in that case a nerf wouldn't affect you either it's not like the game would be unplayable without Herc (which again they wouldn't make Herc trash, they would just take him from broken to #1 in the cosmic class no big deal).
    Therefore, the only other explanation is that you're too lazy to learn other champs so you'd rather just grab the one that's broken and call it a day since he requires zero effort (infuriate allows you to intercept easily) or resources (immortality almost guarantees you'll be able to ko the opponent no matter how much you screw up in the beginning). You get it now or still nothing?
    So I guess you cannot stop. I tried reasoning with you but I am too lazy to continue this. You can go on with your tirade.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    phil56201 said:

    Gomezlink said:

    The problem is that other champions are very bad, in the game there are 200 champions, less than 10% are worth something

    There are 260 champions in the game. That would mean that there are less than 26 useable champions.



    That would be less than the 1st row in the list above. Not to mention the 73 additional champions in row 2. I think most would agree that the 112 champions above are worth quite a bit. And that's close to 45% of the champions in the game. And there's still a bunch of champions not on that list that a very valuable like Dragon Man, Sunspot, Rulk, iHulk, Spark, Silver Cent, KM, and many others.
    I'm glad someone actually took the time to post how many strong champs we have in the game. Precisely why I say most people who rely on Herc too much aren't absolutely terrible at the game, they're just too lazy to find another way.
    You keep saying lazy but I guess you keep forgetting it’s a game really. People can work hard in their real life. Game is supposed to be for fun. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp that some people just want to login and bash some opponents and just log off?
    I'm in college and I have a job, I never use Herc and he's still sitting at r3 lol.

    The answer to your question is in the same comment you replied to, you can bash opponents with the other 100 strong champs that exist in the game and log off too.
    So you are trying to dictate how others should play/enjoy the game?
    Not at all but if they want to nerf Herc because he's bad for the game they're free to do so and I'm not going to cry about it.
    If the real reason you rely on Herc is because you enjoy playing him then you have nothing to worry about cause a nerf probably wouldn't change his playstyle, in fact they'd probably just get rid off immortality and leave his damage as is so he can still be the strongest cosmic.
    I honestly don’t give a damn whether they nerf herc or not. I am just talking about your constant habit of calling anyone who uses herc lazy. Can you stop that and focus on the real argument if you have any?
    Why are you so mad about what I say or don't in a forum? Does the shoe fit?

    Anyways, the reason I say what I say is because that's the only logical explanation to some of the whining about a Herc nerf. If you play him because he's fun, a nerf would not affect his playstyle in the slightest so that wouldn't be a reason to be complaining about a nerf, his playstyle isn't broken it's some of his kit (immortality).
    If the reason you play him is because you suck at the game, there are plenty of other champs in the game that are extremely powerful who can get the job done and don't have a high skill ceiling, so in that case a nerf wouldn't affect you either it's not like the game would be unplayable without Herc (which again they wouldn't make Herc trash, they would just take him from broken to #1 in the cosmic class no big deal).
    Therefore, the only other explanation is that you're too lazy to learn other champs so you'd rather just grab the one that's broken and call it a day since he requires zero effort (infuriate allows you to intercept easily) or resources (immortality almost guarantees you'll be able to ko the opponent no matter how much you screw up in the beginning). You get it now or still nothing?
    So I guess you cannot stop. I tried reasoning with you but I am too lazy to continue this. You can go on with your tirade.
    So no counter arguments to any of the points I made? Just a "I'm out" lol figures.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,239 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    If he wasn't overpowered, would we even be having this discussion at the very thought of them changing him?
    That comment was directed at the number of ascensions. Can you say with absolute certainty and with proof that the ascensions are solely because herc is OP?
    All of them? I don't believe generalizations like that are logical. Overall, the idea is he's so popular because he's OP, and the idea is if he's that good without it, he must be a beast after. I'd say that's how the logic primarily went.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,302 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zuro said:

    Herc discourse in 2024 is wild lol. Besides incursions and AQ people hardly use him anymore especially endgame players

    This really, really isn’t true. He’s used an incredible amount in high tier wars, and he’s an incredibly strong BGs champ too.

    I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share specifics, but the amount of Herc ascensions are wild compared to other champs.
    Could that just be due to him being a fan favorite? He of course was the first ever summoners choice champ.
    If he wasn't overpowered, would we even be having this discussion at the very thought of them changing him?
    That comment was directed at the number of ascensions. Can you say with absolute certainty and with proof that the ascensions are solely because herc is OP?
    All of them? I don't believe generalizations like that are logical. Overall, the idea is he's so popular because he's OP, and the idea is if he's that good without it, he must be a beast after. I'd say that's how the logic primarily went.
    He won the summoners choice vote. So I guess he was popular to begin with. Him being really really good just added to the popularity.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★

    I find it so strange that people that use Herc are called lazy. What exactly is the benefit of learning to play champs? I mean, I learn to play new champs every now and then but is not compulsory, I believe.
    Also, I don’t know about you guys, but if in a game I find a gun, I’ll drop the knife I’ve been carrying. I wouldn’t be thinking “nah, too easy, I’ll stick to the knife”.
    It’s some sort of masochism mixed with snobbery.

    If they refuse to learn other champs who are also very powerful and fully capable, what else would you call it? Sure fun could be one reason since fun is subjective but if the playstyle is what's fun then what's the problem with Kabam nerfing him. They probably wouldn't change his playstyle cause the thing that makes him so broken is his immortality not the whole intercepting playstyle which other champs in the game also have.

    Not sure I'm following here, are you implying Herc compared to the rest of the cosmic class (Hulkling Galan Adam etc) is like comparing a gun and a knife? Cause if you are, it's not really helping your case, instead it's showing why he needs to be nerfed even more. There should never be champ that towers over every other playable character in the game like that, it's not good for the game.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,239 ★★★★★

    I find it so strange that people that use Herc are called lazy. What exactly is the benefit of learning to play champs? I mean, I learn to play new champs every now and then but is not compulsory, I believe.
    Also, I don’t know about you guys, but if in a game I find a gun, I’ll drop the knife I’ve been carrying. I wouldn’t be thinking “nah, too easy, I’ll stick to the knife”.
    It’s some sort of masochism mixed with snobbery.

    Well I don't know about the lazy aspect, but there is a point to having a vast knowledge of Champs. Metas change, Champs rise and fall, and you can't rely on the same Champ for the duration of the game. I mean, you can use whoever you want. You just can't expect them to be the best option for everything.
    The game is as much about making the right choices as it is skills using them.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 2,664 ★★★★★
    Its quite funny to me some people think others want Hercules to be netfed...
    Personally I don't really care if they do, reason? I just don't use him anymore...
This discussion has been closed.