I know crystals are not rigged but it’s so hard not to think this way when…

Valroz · March 7

You pull 5 x 6* featured crystals and you get 4 of these out of 5. The fifth an equally old and useless champ, Green Goblin,

Really really weird level of being unlucky, lol.

Slig · March 7

I opened 40 and didn’t get either of the two champs I was looking for. The RNG gods were not smiling down upon me.

DrZola · March 7

“Rigged” is a strong term to use.

I agree that pRNG seems in many instances to tilt against us. Some of that is our own cognitive bias, some of it is our own distorted sense of what *random* means, and some of it (I think) is the way the game’s pRNG sometimes seems to produce clumpy outcomes.

I’ve wondered often over the past decade of this game about all of this. I don’t believe anything is purposefully meant to confound us, but I’m also a believer that there’s some much code overwritten on code that it’s difficult for anyone to know how things actually work sometimes.

Dr. Zola

Chobbly · March 7

I agree @DrZola.

It would be nice, and I don't know if this would ever happen, if maybe in a future segment of the Twitch stream Kabam did a section on how the crystals work - to clarify and inform.

But the clumping point you make is interesting. I don't know if the randomisation happens on the fly every time, or is from a randomised number table and when you open a crystal you just get the next row, or something else entirely. Cognitive bias is certainly a factor we should bear in mind, but at the same time it just feels a bit ...odd sometimes, like a glitch in the matrix.

Vanitelia · March 7

I have a hard time believing that the drop rates are spread evenly across the entire pool, hence why it says it's 100% probability of pulling a 6*. Plenty of bias to be had, considering I've opened 10 and got exactly 0 of the 6 new. Similar story to last crystal. Is what it is!

laserjohn26 · March 7

I opened 7 on my really bad mini account. Paragon but like 12k prestige. When I make a bg deck I don't even have 30 5*+ champs that are even max level r1. Got onslaught x2, white tiger, cheelith, and iron heart. I'm tired of this game being rigged and giving away all the new champs. Really wanted to dupe more old champs for the iso.

PT_99 · March 7

Opening 6* featured crystals instead of saving up for 7* crystals 🤣

Revile · March 7

Considering they have a patent for weighted RNG that changes based on other algorithmic factors I'd say most logically one should assume that it is isn't pRNG, and believe otherwise when there is tangible data to negate the usage of the patented code. After confirming that so many major mobile games have been weighted based on algorithms, it's naive to think this one isn't, until we have real evidence. I think it's a great idea, now that they are claiming greater transparency, for them to explain exactly how these things work on a live stream. Let's make that happen!

Terminatrix · March 7

Valroz said:
You pull 5 x 6* featured crystals and you get 4 of these out of 5. The fifth an equally old and useless champ, Green Goblin,

Really really weird level of being unlucky, lol.

I won't say they're "rigged", BUT it sure looks suspiciously "programmed" to give us certain champs. Right before Nightcrawler's buff, I got him in a Nexus crystal. And last year when Zemo was hyped up, I got him from a Paragon Daily crystal* crystal. Never pulled ANY champ from that crystal. Ijs 😂

13579rebel_ · March 7

It is hard when you pull the same champ frequently in a featured crystal I understand your pain

But calling Anti Venom Old (2021) and comparing his usefulness to be equal with green goblin is not right he is very useful and can do some cool things along with a rare set of immunities

DrZola · March 7

DrZola said:
“Rigged” is a strong term to use.

I agree that pRNG seems in many instances to tilt against us. Some of that is our own cognitive bias, some of it is our own distorted sense of what *random* means, and some of it (I think) is the way the game’s pRNG sometimes seems to produce clumpy outcomes.

I’ve wondered often over the past decade of this game about all of this. I don’t believe anything is purposefully meant to confound us, but I’m also a believer that there’s some much code overwritten on code that it’s difficult for anyone to know how things actually work sometimes.

Dr. Zola

I’d be genuinely curious to know the views of the folks who have disagreed with this comment. I’ve no problem with disagrees, but what precisely is your point of disagreement?

I don’t ask this for any other reason than to understand better what the position is here. Do you think crystals are actually “rigged”? If so, how? Do you disagree about cognitive bias or the tendency of people to misunderstand how statistics play out in real life? Do you not find results to sometimes seem “clumpy”?

Seriously, not a poke at anyone’s critique. I’d like to know what the actual reasons for disagreement might be. After popping crystals for nearly a decade, I’m always willing to learn something new.

Dr. Zola

Roggam · March 7

Clumpy can be good - opened 2 onslaughts and asked to cash my chips

Kabam Jax · March 7

Let's get ahead of this (or kinda "behind this," since we've talked about this many times before):

This will not be a topic on a future livestream, because it would be incredibly short and likely wouldn't move the needle in any way. haha

We would simply say the truth: RNG is random.

I'm convinced there isn't any evidence we can provide you all that will make everyone nod in agreement, and we know this because we've tried. We can bring in DNA to show his massive spreadsheets to showcase how, with a large enough sample size, RNG proves to be RNG.

But we do these things time and time again. And there's always claims of foul play. I am willing to wager that even if we showed everyone the code that governs these mechanics, it would convince even fewer people as not everyone has coding experience, myself included.

I understand the frustration that comes from not getting what we're looking for in crystals, and even moreso the larger the sample size gets. And yes, sometimes we see weird clumping of crystal openings that make you raise an eyebrow. Dr Zola makes some excellent points about personal bias and potential misunderstanding of statistics, and we find it seems to be the answer most frequently when we have claims of rigged RNG.

It's an important reminder that rigging crystals would be unethical and illegal. We would never risk the future of the Contest on such shady approaches.

Deacon · March 7

We often only remember the horrors of RNG ... BUT there are instances of awesomeness that RNG provides too lol

Terminatrix · March 7

Deacon said:
We often only remember the horrors of RNG ... BUT there are instances of awesomeness that RNG provides too lol

I'd love some more of that awesomeness and would permanently declare MCOC as the best game, in the business if I can get a 7* CMM....

.....x 10 😆

PT_99 · March 7

Deacon said:
We often only remember the horrors of RNG ... BUT there are instances of awesomeness that RNG provides too lol

I agree, pulled Vox from my Necro Titan, he was one roll before Jabari 💀

Terminatrix · March 7

PT_99 said:

Deacon said:
We often only remember the horrors of RNG ... BUT there are instances of awesomeness that RNG provides too lol
I agree, pulled Vox from my Necro Titan, he was one roll before Jabari 💀

ST🛑🛑🛑🛑PPPP 😂😂😂😂

Ayden_noah1 · March 7

The past three feature crystals I got all the feature champs within 20 crystals but this month the RNG gods wasn't with me. Out of 40 crystals got Bulleyes twice, white tiger twice, Chee-ilth once and a brand new Green Goblin. Didn't even know that I haven't pull GG yet. Wanted Bullyese and Onslaught the most so at least I got one of them. Will be opening more feature crystal till I get Onslaught.

Wicket329 · March 7

PT_99 said:

Deacon said:
We often only remember the horrors of RNG ... BUT there are instances of awesomeness that RNG provides too lol
I agree, pulled Vox from my Necro Titan, he was one roll before Jabari 💀

I managed to scrounge together enough shards for a Titan this morning, had it verrrrryyyyyyyy slowly roll over from a Jabari dupe to a new Big Dog and I was stoked.

GroundedWisdom · March 7

RNGesus giveth, and RNGesus taketh away.

Vegeta9001 · March 7

I've opened 13 and got 2 champs 3 times and one 4 times so far.

o_o · March 7

Revile said:
Considering they have a patent for weighted RNG that changes based on other algorithmic factors I'd say most logically one should assume that it is isn't pRNG, and believe otherwise when there is tangible data to negate the usage of the patented code. After confirming that so many major mobile games have been weighted based on algorithms, it's naive to think this one isn't, until we have real evidence. I think it's a great idea, now that they are claiming greater transparency, for them to explain exactly how these things work on a live stream. Let's make that happen!

Prof? That you?

McFin · March 7

I know it’s not rigged but…. I opened 4 features and got 3 of the same champ. Thankfully it’s a fairly good one but it would be nice to hit a new one every once in a while 😃

Pikolu · March 7

You make a compelling argument Jax, however I haven't gotten Sersi from my 2 Titan crystals I've opened so they're definitely rigged! /s

Shamir51 · March 7

I present exhibit A as evidence for the good side of RNG…

Quicksilver89 · March 7

Kabam Jax said:
Let's get ahead of this (or kinda "behind this," since we've talked about this many times before):

This will not be a topic on a future livestream, because it would be incredibly short and likely wouldn't move the needle in any way. haha

We would simply say the truth: RNG is random.

I'm convinced there isn't any evidence we can provide you all that will make everyone nod in agreement, and we know this because we've tried. We can bring in DNA to show his massive spreadsheets to showcase how, with a large enough sample size, RNG proves to be RNG.

But we do these things time and time again. And there's always claims of foul play. I am willing to wager that even if we showed everyone the code that governs these mechanics, it would convince even fewer people as not everyone has coding experience, myself included.

I understand the frustration that comes from not getting what we're looking for in crystals, and even moreso the larger the sample size gets. And yes, sometimes we see weird clumping of crystal openings that make you raise an eyebrow. Dr Zola makes some excellent points about personal bias and potential misunderstanding of statistics, and we find it seems to be the answer most frequently when we have claims of rigged RNG.

It's an important reminder that rigging crystals would be unethical and illegal. We would never risk the future of the Contest on such shady approaches.

Explain how I have opened 24 xmagica paragon crystals (bought with money from store) 5 of the daily valiant special crystals (from store with real money) and 10 of the new serpent paragon crystals (units) in the past 24 hours, and not even a single one did I get so much as a 6*?!

GroundedWisdom · March 7

Quicksilver89 said:

Kabam Jax said:
Let's get ahead of this (or kinda "behind this," since we've talked about this many times before):

This will not be a topic on a future livestream, because it would be incredibly short and likely wouldn't move the needle in any way. haha

We would simply say the truth: RNG is random.

I'm convinced there isn't any evidence we can provide you all that will make everyone nod in agreement, and we know this because we've tried. We can bring in DNA to show his massive spreadsheets to showcase how, with a large enough sample size, RNG proves to be RNG.

But we do these things time and time again. And there's always claims of foul play. I am willing to wager that even if we showed everyone the code that governs these mechanics, it would convince even fewer people as not everyone has coding experience, myself included.

I understand the frustration that comes from not getting what we're looking for in crystals, and even moreso the larger the sample size gets. And yes, sometimes we see weird clumping of crystal openings that make you raise an eyebrow. Dr Zola makes some excellent points about personal bias and potential misunderstanding of statistics, and we find it seems to be the answer most frequently when we have claims of rigged RNG.

It's an important reminder that rigging crystals would be unethical and illegal. We would never risk the future of the Contest on such shady approaches.
Explain how I have opened 24 xmagica paragon crystals (bought with money from store) 5 of the daily valiant special crystals (from store with real money) and 10 of the new serpent paragon crystals (units) in the past 24 hours, and not even a single one did I get so much as a 6*?!

R......N......G.

Ironside47 · March 7

I was doing the tech advancement objective yesterday. I opened 40 signature stone crystals. How many tech stones do you think I got? That’s right, absolutely zero. It’s hard not to be a bit suspicious.

Shamir51 · March 7

Quicksilver89 said:

Kabam Jax said:
Let's get ahead of this (or kinda "behind this," since we've talked about this many times before):

This will not be a topic on a future livestream, because it would be incredibly short and likely wouldn't move the needle in any way. haha

We would simply say the truth: RNG is random.

I'm convinced there isn't any evidence we can provide you all that will make everyone nod in agreement, and we know this because we've tried. We can bring in DNA to show his massive spreadsheets to showcase how, with a large enough sample size, RNG proves to be RNG.

But we do these things time and time again. And there's always claims of foul play. I am willing to wager that even if we showed everyone the code that governs these mechanics, it would convince even fewer people as not everyone has coding experience, myself included.

I understand the frustration that comes from not getting what we're looking for in crystals, and even moreso the larger the sample size gets. And yes, sometimes we see weird clumping of crystal openings that make you raise an eyebrow. Dr Zola makes some excellent points about personal bias and potential misunderstanding of statistics, and we find it seems to be the answer most frequently when we have claims of rigged RNG.

It's an important reminder that rigging crystals would be unethical and illegal. We would never risk the future of the Contest on such shady approaches.
Explain how I have opened 24 xmagica paragon crystals (bought with money from store) 5 of the daily valiant special crystals (from store with real money) and 10 of the new serpent paragon crystals (units) in the past 24 hours, and not even a single one did I get so much as a 6*?!

Explain how I opened 12 of these and got 7* serpent?

Quicksilver89 · March 7

Explain how I have opened 24 xmagica paragon crystals (bought with money from store) 5 of the daily valiant special crystals (from store with real money) and 10 of the new serpent paragon crystals (units) in the past 24 hours, and not even a single one did I get so much as a 6*?!

R......N......G.

How about B..S.. all I’m saying is the odds of not getting a single 6* in all of those are extremely low. Yes I’m salty and I know the risks but come on 39 crystals with the same % odds of 6* and to get 0 is baffling how that can be rng. I’m not even mentioning 7* cause I don’t expect one with those odds, nor do I care about 6* especially, it just seems a tad off to me…

Kabam Jax · March 7

Quicksilver89 said:

How about B..S.. all I’m saying is the odds of not getting a single 6* in all of those are extremely low. Yes I’m salty and I know the risks but come on 39 crystals with the same % odds of 6* and to get 0 is baffling how that can be rng. I’m not even mentioning 7* cause I don’t expect one with those odds, nor do I care about 6* especially, it just seems a tad off to me…

Yeah, that sure sounds random.

(edited to confirm that I am not going off about RNG, hahaha, that was weird)

I know crystals are not rigged but it’s so hard not to think this way when…

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