Enough, enough with these immunity penalty nodes

Demonzfyre · June 12

Buzerk1969 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Buzerk1969 said:

captain_rogers said:
I do agree reverse controls shouldn't be forced upon players. But this content is meant to be tough, hair pulling, irritating and even makes you think about quitting the game. That's the point of SOS. So I don't mind these nodes being unfair, cuz that's the intention.
Onslaugth was "hair pulling", they have over 200 champs to pick from for a boss and countless nodes to make them difficult. Laziness or lack of creativity, you pick.

Your argument is lazy and lacks creativity. You don't like reverse controls so you call it lazy. I'm sick of seeing these posts when hard content comes out. They warn you way ahead time that it won't be a cake walk but we get dozens of posts complaining about node combinations as if they weren't aware this is difficult content.

Go replay act 1. Seems more your skill level.
No don't like it, never will and that's why we have reverse control immune champs. But with Necro and this week SOS, Kabam decided to penalize their use, and it's even worse this week. Not just removing their immunities.

Git gud.

Buzerk1969 · June 12

DNA3000 said:

Buzerk1969 said:

DNA3000 said:

If reverse controls is not a skill, then neither is forward controls.
Cute...almost funny
You say that like I was trying to be funny. This is my serious face.

Ok, now you are really being funny, Kabam? looking for some help in the community mgmt? We got a candidate here.

If so, then it should be everywhere in the game, but Kabam knows better, they would rapidly loose the player base, no player base, no revenue, no game. We can coun't on 1 hand where that node is, why do you think that is? And except for the 2 example I gave, you can use your reverse control immune champs, Kabam even encourage you to do exactly that.

DarkGuardian · June 12

Buzerk1969 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Buzerk1969 said:

captain_rogers said:
I do agree reverse controls shouldn't be forced upon players. But this content is meant to be tough, hair pulling, irritating and even makes you think about quitting the game. That's the point of SOS. So I don't mind these nodes being unfair, cuz that's the intention.
Onslaugth was "hair pulling", they have over 200 champs to pick from for a boss and countless nodes to make them difficult. Laziness or lack of creativity, you pick.

Your argument is lazy and lacks creativity. You don't like reverse controls so you call it lazy. I'm sick of seeing these posts when hard content comes out. They warn you way ahead time that it won't be a cake walk but we get dozens of posts complaining about node combinations as if they weren't aware this is difficult content.

Go replay act 1. Seems more your skill level.
No don't like it, never will and that's why we have reverse control immune champs. But with Necro and this week SOS, Kabam decided to penalize their use, and it's even worse this week. Not just removing their immunities.

You can do the phase 3 reverse controls phase with Juggs, becasue the degen only takes 2% per second of your current health. This is similiar to Bane, which gates weaker the lower your or the defender HP Bar is

Another fact is that Necro GM Phase 4 can be done with Reverse Control imunne champ, but i am sure you already know that

Cantona59 · June 12

While on the one hand it may seem “cheap” to stop reverse control immune champs, on the other hand Spring of Sorrow is meant to be one of the hardest bits of content in the game. Stopping reverse controls immune champs is part of that challenge of the controls flicking from normal to backwards.

Overall I think it’s fine for a node like this to exist, as long as it’s limited to special difficult content such as this. It shouldn’t bleed into stuff like EQ or story where a path has reverse controls, because having that immunity is a counter and that content should be testing your roster width, meanwhile Spring of Sorrow is meant to test your skill at playing the actual game.

Also in the Necropolis, the node stopping reverse controls immune didn’t outright ban them. It was “-2% of current health” so you couldn’t actually die due to the tick damage. That seemed fair to me, as the “punishment” for trying to go round the Grandmasters abilities was to play at low health. They could have chose to outright kill them like here, but they didn’t. Necropolis was meant to be hard, if you wanted to “balance the scales” by removing Reverse controls then the game balanced the scales back at you to still keep it difficult. Otherwise the Grandmaster would have been easy to just use a reverse controls the whole time and probably solo for good players

Buttehrs · June 12

You say it's lazy to use reverse control and then basically ban reverse control.immune champs. But out of 9 separate SoS fights this year it's the first one with reverse controls. So, how exactly is that lazy node design?

Buzerk1969 · June 12

DarkGuardian said:

Buzerk1969 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Buzerk1969 said:

captain_rogers said:
I do agree reverse controls shouldn't be forced upon players. But this content is meant to be tough, hair pulling, irritating and even makes you think about quitting the game. That's the point of SOS. So I don't mind these nodes being unfair, cuz that's the intention.
Onslaugth was "hair pulling", they have over 200 champs to pick from for a boss and countless nodes to make them difficult. Laziness or lack of creativity, you pick.

Your argument is lazy and lacks creativity. You don't like reverse controls so you call it lazy. I'm sick of seeing these posts when hard content comes out. They warn you way ahead time that it won't be a cake walk but we get dozens of posts complaining about node combinations as if they weren't aware this is difficult content.

Go replay act 1. Seems more your skill level.
No don't like it, never will and that's why we have reverse control immune champs. But with Necro and this week SOS, Kabam decided to penalize their use, and it's even worse this week. Not just removing their immunities.
You can do the phase 3 reverse controls phase with Juggs, becasue the degen only takes 2% per second of your current health. This is similiar to Bane, which gates weaker the lower your or the defender HP Bar is

Another fact is that Necro GM Phase 4 can be done with Reverse Control imunne champ, but i am sure you already know that

And I'm sure you know it's phase 3 that penalized the use of reverse control champs in Necro

DarkGuardian · June 12

DarkGuardian said:

Buzerk1969 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Buzerk1969 said:

captain_rogers said:
I do agree reverse controls shouldn't be forced upon players. But this content is meant to be tough, hair pulling, irritating and even makes you think about quitting the game. That's the point of SOS. So I don't mind these nodes being unfair, cuz that's the intention.
Onslaugth was "hair pulling", they have over 200 champs to pick from for a boss and countless nodes to make them difficult. Laziness or lack of creativity, you pick.

Your argument is lazy and lacks creativity. You don't like reverse controls so you call it lazy. I'm sick of seeing these posts when hard content comes out. They warn you way ahead time that it won't be a cake walk but we get dozens of posts complaining about node combinations as if they weren't aware this is difficult content.

Go replay act 1. Seems more your skill level.
No don't like it, never will and that's why we have reverse control immune champs. But with Necro and this week SOS, Kabam decided to penalize their use, and it's even worse this week. Not just removing their immunities.
You can do the phase 3 reverse controls phase with awakened Juggs, becasue the degen only takes 2% per second of your current health and his sig ability reduces incoming damage by x% depending on the sig level. Granted, it is horrible, but awakened Juggs makes it much easier.
This is similiar to Bane, which gates weaker the lower your or the defender HP Bar is

Another fact is that Necro GM Phase 4 can be done with Reverse Control imunne champ, but i am sure you already know that

Bendy · June 12

captain_rogers said:
Well why don't you give 2 weeks of your time and see whether your opinions change or not? Until now we had 9 fights (6 wow and 3 sos) and I'll confidently say gwenpool isn't even the top 3 toughest boss on them.

Id say to me shes probs third best fight first being dani as was actually a cool design learned something second best its out of hulkling and aegon both are tied then proper third is gwenpool as shes challenging but skill needed as invert controls back and fourth that u gotta get brain power but in terms of difficult onslaught and abs are just top then id say that iron fist but might change if anniluhs in 2 weeks time

Glads · June 12

Bendy said:
They made nodes to penalty as other wise it be too easy like if u used jugs it would take 2 sp2s most likely to almost kill her

Not everyone has juggs and that's only 1 quest

Glads · June 12

Buzerk1969 said:

captain_rogers said:
I do agree reverse controls shouldn't be forced upon players. But this content is meant to be tough, hair pulling, irritating and even makes you think about quitting the game. That's the point of SOS. So I don't mind these nodes being unfair, cuz that's the intention.
Onslaugth was "hair pulling", they have over 200 champs to pick from for a boss and countless nodes to make them difficult. Laziness or lack of creativity, you pick.

Onslaught wasn't nerfed before SOS as the announced. Yet in teir 3 wars our Onslaught gets between 3 to 5 kills every war work that out

OGAvenger · June 12

Wasn’t Iron Fist debuff immune? Why even put debuffs into the game then? They’re penalizing us for having champs that rely on debuffs!

DNA3000 · June 12

Buzerk1969 said:

DNA3000 said:

Buzerk1969 said:

DNA3000 said:

If reverse controls is not a skill, then neither is forward controls.
Cute...almost funny
You say that like I was trying to be funny. This is my serious face.
Ok, now you are really being funny, Kabam? looking for some help in the community mgmt? We got a candidate here.

If so, then it should be everywhere in the game, but Kabam knows better, they would rapidly loose the player base, no player base, no revenue, no game. We can coun't on 1 hand where that node is, why do you think that is? And except for the 2 example I gave, you can use your reverse control immune champs, Kabam even encourage you to do exactly that.

Now there's some logic. If reverse controls is an actual skill, then it should be everywhere. Just like intercepting is a skill, so every fight requires it. Reading is also a skill, so every fight should start with a comprehension quiz.

Then again.

Once upon a time, the game was dominated by Perfect Block teams. We still have perfect block, but we no longer have perfect block teams, and the meta of the game has for the most part moved on. I'm sure we lost a few players when Kabam removed perfect block synergy teams from the game. But we seemed to have managed just fine without them.

The game moves on. Not everyone moves on with it. But these arguments have been used before many times to claim that because we didn't do it before, we shouldn't do it now. They always lose, and always will lose. And if that means the game loses some players, that's unfortunate, but they will be replaced by players willing to deal with the game as it is, not as they demand it to be.

Greed_Exodus · June 12

I did the fight with a r3 6* blade and got both paragon objectives, it’s honestly the easiest one of these fights so far imo, yeah some people struggle with reverse controls I get that, but it’s gwenpool, be glad it wasn’t a character with a more difficult sp1 to dex, this was easily played around by skill, unlike some of the other fights have had unavoidable damage or crazy regen that negates 90% of the damage you just dealt in the last attempt.

the_eradicator · June 12

I somewhat get the point.
Reverse controls are a sort of thing that your brain will not comprehend straightaway if you are not used to it.

I used to hate this stuff but somehow I decided to practise this against a reversed controls Kindred in one of the previous event quests.
Cos it was like 2 energy or something and free practise.
You have to let your brain naturally adapt and develop an automatic reflex for revere controls.
But in this particular fight, there is a trick, keep pushing her to her special 1 while the controls change, pick a champion with fast specials, you have a sp1 power gain...put in just for that reason. This actually made it doable. Cos you just have to handle the RC on sp1 evades.
Rest of the time just parry and heavy and wait out the timer if its in between the switch..you basically screwed if the controls change in between the special evade.

NüΚΞ · June 12

I suck at reverse controls, and undulating between normal and reverse gave my brain a headache. I will say stick with it. I failed like 20-30 times then it started to make sense I ended up using about 4 revives total. If I can do this fight you can.

I found that once you can get into a rhythm you can use your specials and striker to help transition from reverse to normal. It helped my smooth brain, it might help you too 😂😂.

AI can be tricky, plenty of my attempts the ai waited to throw specials the second it transitioned from normal to reverse or the opposite. All of the fights you can get into the flow and I especially found the striker clutch during transitions between control switches.

Finish every combo with a light attack and you’ll get it. All these WOW AND SOS fights are highlighting some specific muscle memory. I tell myself that when I get especially pissed off.

You can parry to slow the fight down and transition that way as well. GL

Nemesis_17 · June 12

Ok then, let’s say we remove just that node. If there’s no reverse controls immunity punishment, we get to steamroll through the fight with anyone who is immune. If that’s the case, then the difficulty has to be made up somewhere else by adding in other difficult nodes.

But then that means the champs who don’t have immunity have twice as many annoyances to worry about compared to those immune, so now any champ that isn’t immune is immediately considered an unideal option. Now we have like 3 champs who do the fight well, because there’s a major imbalance between the champs who are immune to reverse controls versus the ones who aren’t.

Ok, then let’s remove the reverse controls altogether. But then what’s the point of the fight? Again they’d have to add a different node set to keep the difficulty balanced since the defender is gwenpool. Then we have another fight like iron fist where people complained anyways.

The point of this node immunity punishing node being here is so that you have to play the fight mechanics as intended and can’t just cheese through. It’s like how they replaced 6.3.6 capIW’s fury buffs with passives so you couldn’t just stunlock the whole fight with Ronan. He was meant to be a challenging boss, and so is this gwenpool. I just don’t understand what your advocating for, because if they just removed that node this fight would be completely unbalanced.

NüΚΞ · June 12

I’ll take this fight over that absman. Even watching the videos of people doing the she hulk thing annoyed me 😂🤣

OldManHop · June 12

Buttehrs said:
Odd. Plenty of normal people have already finished the fight with lots of champs. It honestly is a skill issue.

Bold of you to assume that anyone who plays this game could be considered "normal."

(I'm just playing, don't yell at me.)

Gercas · June 12

They put one of the easiest defenders they could choose and your complaining they try to made it “hard”

Wozzle007 · June 12

I hate reverse controls, but this fight was honestly quite fun. Not the first 15 or so attempts where if took off 10k of damage I was lucky. Or the next 15 where 150k was a good effort. But then after that it all clicked and I was able to get into a rhythm and then old Gwenpool was getting shredded. It was really fun. All Valiant objectives now cleared and even did cleared an objective on my Alt Account.

If this fight allowed champions immune to reverse control it would be about as hard as a Winter Soldier fight in ROL.

Honestly the fights are supposed to be taxing and they are aimed at end game players or those willing to revive through the sorrow.

Dirty_Dozz · June 12

Reverse control immunity is already a niche one. There's maybe what, a dozen or so Champs that are immune to it? So it's not like they started making it super popular just to screw people.

The point of "punishing" immunities is so you don't just take the easy way out. Necro GM punishes you for reverse control immunity because otherwise, it's just a generic GM fight, which most people doing Necro should be familiar with, and it wouldn't be any harder. This fight punishes it because the reversed controls are the only thing making this fight even slightly challenging.

Further, aside from Necro and this fight, where do you get punished for bringing an immunity?

This fight isn't even that bad. I'm nowhere near the most skilled at this game, and I was able to get a solo with Vox on my second try (then I realized using Vox was pointless), then I got a solo with Angela after a handful of tries.

peixemacaco · June 12

Pikolu said:
Miike did say Spring of Sorrow would live up to its name. Isn't called spring of pleasant strolls for a reason.

You also have to realize this is endgame content for endgame players

Priyabrata · June 13

It's Gwen pool man, you can literally keep watching the timer the whole fight and play out of your peripheral vision , SHE'S THAT EASY TO FIGHT, I don't think you have a problem with dexing her specials or baiting them out, so why not just look at the counter throughout the fight?

Crimson8399 · June 13

My only issue I had with this fight was sometimes the timing on the reverse controls was so close that I couldn’t get the evade right and would dash into the special at the last second lol. This one was annoying but way easier than last fight IMO.

OldManHop · June 13

Priyabrata said:
It's Gwen pool man, you can literally keep watching the timer the whole fight and play out of your peripheral vision , SHE'S THAT EASY TO FIGHT, I don't think you have a problem with dexing her specials or baiting them out, so why not just look at the counter throughout the fight?

This is honestly the message I needed... I might actually have to attempt this one. I let the last two pass me by (I only recently got Paragon and I'm still kinda intimidated by the true endgame content... also, I'm tapped out on revives/potions/units at this point, so it's gonna be a minute before I go attempting anything too novel.)

I've essentially given up on getting any of the Deathless champs within the foreseeable future and, frankly, I'm enjoying the game a heck of a lot more without all the FOMO.

PantherusNZ · June 13

I haven't managed a single solo in these fights to date, but I just now managed the solo with Black Cat 7R1 - you just gotta play around that controls timer and it's a piece of cake.

Rustyoneil · June 13

While I do agree that this was one of the easier bosses once you get into a rhythm. It does get super irritating when you place an objective like “Brotherhood of Mutants” which only has 10 options, then take away 2 of those options because of this node.

Venoween · June 13

Pikolu said:
Miike did say Spring of Sorrow would live up to its name. Isn't called spring of pleasant strolls for a reason.

You also have to realize this is endgame content for endgame players

For those of us that, like pulling our own teeth, this mode is for you..

OldManHop · June 13

Venoween said:

Pikolu said:
Miike did say Spring of Sorrow would live up to its name. Isn't called spring of pleasant strolls for a reason.

You also have to realize this is endgame content for endgame players
For those of us that, like pulling our own teeth, this mode is for you..

It's up to every player to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze... either it is or it isn't.

J0eySn0w · June 13

Bendy said:
They made nodes to penalty as other wise it be too easy like if u used jugs it would take 2 sp2s most likely to almost kill her

People complaining about the reverse controls are not necessarily saying take that node off and keep the rest. Maybe it sounds that way but that’s not what they’re saying. They’re basically saying, I hate reverse controls, give me something else other than that. And I completely understand. This game has taking a turn for some months now, I don’t know if people have realized. If they keep going at this pace, it will become more obvious. The hiring and consulting from these top tier players and YTers has raised the difficulty level, and it’s causing frustration to many players. They might want to bring people from mid level to balance things out. Look back to recent champs, you have disabling dex, willpower, guaranteed damage, etc. What next?

Enough, enough with these immunity penalty nodes

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