If the titan pool is going to be so meh, we need more opportunities to open them

PT_99 · June 22

Imagine you buy Titan Nexus on July-4 deals and you get choice between Thing, Nova or Sable ☹️

PT_99 · June 22

Fit_Fun9329 said:
And here we are finally after gathering for months

I am disappointed, what a crushing defeat

??
Buffed redskull is menace on both defence and attack in BG
??

JLordVileJ · June 22

Just joining the chat without reading anything written beforehand to say I have only ever opened 1 titan crystal and I got bullseye. I got my first r2 gem the day before and r2d him immediately. Sucks to be you

Seriously though, I feel fir you, I would hate for my first and so far only titan to be like blade or smth

captain_rogers · June 22

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...

Nimgod exists.....

Sachhyam257 · June 22

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....

Ngl I forgot he existed. But I still back prowler over him here.

captain_rogers · June 22

Sachhyam257 said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
I forgot he existed.

PIN OF SHAME

Seriously tho, Nimrod isn't the fastest domino counter, But he is the safest. I've finished fights at 90% health despite taking a sp2 on the face.

Donno much about prowler but ik he has 115% AA just to counter domino, so he might be the best.

Bendy · June 22

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....

Hasnt people remembered we have a omega sent whos my all time best domino counter

captain_rogers · June 22

Bendy said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Hasnt people remembered we have a omega sent whos my all time best domino counter

Omegod sent is my fav domino counter in war, I really like her autoblock mechanism which is a lifesaver. But she's slow in bgs.

EdisonLaw · June 22

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....

Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?

ItsClobberinTime · June 22

EdisonLaw said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?

He can't, that's why I never use Nimrod anymore lol

EdisonLaw · June 22

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?
He can't, that's why I never use Nimrod anymore lol

That’s why Nimrod should be a future 7 star, so he can earn back his godly status

ItsClobberinTime · June 22

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?
He can't, that's why I never use Nimrod anymore lol
That’s why Nimrod should be a future 7 star, so he can earn back his godly status

I don't think Kabam wants that for any God tier tbh. Same reason there are so many techs with many armor buffs that can't get harvested in 20 secs with Galan, same reason so many cosmics are immune to power steal or shock cause Doom exists. They don't want any of them back at the top so I doubt they'll be 7* anytime soon.

EdisonLaw · June 22

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?
He can't, that's why I never use Nimrod anymore lol
That’s why Nimrod should be a future 7 star, so he can earn back his godly status
I don't think Kabam wants that for any God tier tbh. Same reason there are so many techs with many armor buffs that can't get harvested in 20 secs with Galan, same reason so many cosmics are immune to power steal or shock cause Doom exists. They don't want any of them back at the top so I doubt they'll be 7* anytime soon.

True but once we see rank 4, 5, 6, or ascended 7 stars, they may consider it

ItsClobberinTime · June 22

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

captain_rogers said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Nimgod exists.....
Can he take down r3 Dominos faster than Red Skull, Prowler or other techs however?
He can't, that's why I never use Nimrod anymore lol
That’s why Nimrod should be a future 7 star, so he can earn back his godly status
I don't think Kabam wants that for any God tier tbh. Same reason there are so many techs with many armor buffs that can't get harvested in 20 secs with Galan, same reason so many cosmics are immune to power steal or shock cause Doom exists. They don't want any of them back at the top so I doubt they'll be 7* anytime soon.
True but once we see rank 4, 5, 6, or ascended 7 stars, they may consider it

Well, we're probably more than a year and a half away from r4s lol eventually I think everyone but Herc will be a 7* though.

EdisonLaw · June 22

Sachhyam257 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Debatable
Not really imo. Aside from countering domino's aar shenanigans, his mediums cannot be evaded. The sp1 pursuit also fully shuts down any evade. So no risk of a jammy domino evade while she's lucky.

I don't have red skull r5 ascended so I can't do a direct dmg comparison; but I'm guessing prowler's dmg is just as good, if not better than red skull's.

Well you could just block and not let her throw any specials, works every time

Herbal_Taxman · June 22

Part of the issue is also that the new champs aren’t as reliably outstanding as what we saw in 2023. They are fine and in many cases quite good, but not nearly as compelling is what we’ve seen in the recent past. So B or B+ new champs combined with unexciting older champs makes the Titan less exciting.

EdisonLaw · June 22

Herbal_Taxman said:
Part of the issue is also that the new champs aren’t as reliably outstanding as what we saw in 2023. They are fine and in many cases quite good, but not nearly as compelling is what we’ve seen in the recent past. So B or B+ new champs combined with unexciting older champs makes the Titan less exciting.

Most of the new champs are pretty good, they have a use, but agreed, they aren't as great as the champs from 2023.

ItsClobberinTime · June 22

EdisonLaw said:

Herbal_Taxman said:
Part of the issue is also that the new champs aren’t as reliably outstanding as what we saw in 2023. They are fine and in many cases quite good, but not nearly as compelling is what we’ve seen in the recent past. So B or B+ new champs combined with unexciting older champs makes the Titan less exciting.
Most of the new champs are pretty good, they have a use, but agreed, they aren't as great as the champs from 2023.

I think pretty good is a massive overstatement lol.

EdisonLaw · June 23

ItsClobberinTime said:

EdisonLaw said:

Herbal_Taxman said:
Part of the issue is also that the new champs aren’t as reliably outstanding as what we saw in 2023. They are fine and in many cases quite good, but not nearly as compelling is what we’ve seen in the recent past. So B or B+ new champs combined with unexciting older champs makes the Titan less exciting.
Most of the new champs are pretty good, they have a use, but agreed, they aren't as great as the champs from 2023.
I think pretty good is a massive overstatement lol.

By pretty good, l meant like ok, obviously not on the level of last year’s bangers

Sachhyam257 · June 23

EdisonLaw said:

Sachhyam257 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Sachhyam257 said:

Emilia90 said:
He’s a decently fast attacker that’s easily the best domino counter since Shuri is so slow.
Prowler imo is the best domino counter, red skull can be second tho...
Debatable
Not really imo. Aside from countering domino's aar shenanigans, his mediums cannot be evaded. The sp1 pursuit also fully shuts down any evade. So no risk of a jammy domino evade while she's lucky.

I don't have red skull r5 ascended so I can't do a direct dmg comparison; but I'm guessing prowler's dmg is just as good, if not better than red skull's.
Well you could just block and not let her throw any specials, works every time

Well that's not as fast as just hitting her though...

IvarTheBoneless · June 23

DNA3000 said:

IvarTheBoneless said:

IvarTheBoneless said:

DNA3000 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Joker1976 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not sure what you're seeing, but I counted at least 8 really good options off the top of my head in that Crystal.
Respectfully the OP has 47 yea’s to 13 nay’s,.,i can see where he’s coming from.
He’s not questioning the great champs you can get,..but rather the value of the crystal itself if you have irrelevant or unrealistic champs in it.
Spinning a Titan crystal shouldn’t be considered a “bonus”,..and it also shouldn’t be a “total loss”.
Blade,..Thing,..or Nova,..from a Titan,.,is a total waste and loss imo.
But on the bright side there is an easy solution,…just don’t put garbage in the Titan crystal.
See how easy that was?
They stated themselves that the numbers are how they made the Crystal more advantageous, not a Crystal full of OP Champs. We're a decade into this game, and it still puzzles me how people are in denial about the fact that most everything is based on RNG when it comes to Champ acquisition. In that amount of time, I've seen people be hyper critical of Champs all the while, simply because they're comparing all Champs to the ones they think are the best. The reality is, there are a scarce few in comparison that have very little use. Now, this may be exacerbated by the fact that there are a number of very powerful Champs out lately, but the value of the other Champs, in my opinion, has been somewhat understated.
Why are you talking about crystal RNG when the complaint is about the champs in the pool being meh? Nobody's in denial about the RNG aspect of crystals it's the fact that none of the champs (other than Serpent) that were added to the last pool and this one are meta relevant.
The value of the champs is a matter of opinion, but both the thread title and the discussion has revolved around a presumption that because the crystal is hard to get, the pulls people get from it should always be as valuable as they want.

That’s specifically contrary to the design intent of the crystal. Titans were explicitly intended to *break* that notion. If you think that, the Titan is supposed to convince you otherwise. The original intent of the featured crystals was to be a crystal where some players got some of the things that they were targeting in the crystal, but the players twice broke the crystal by simply trading basic pulls for featured pulls, practically guaranteeing that they would pull at least some of, if not all of their targets.

The Titan crystal simultaneously is supposed to be hard to get and have a sufficiently diverse pool that players would not just get whatever they want. The idea that it should either be easy to get or have every champ be what the player wants implies the player should always have full control over at least some aspect of their drops. The game does not allow for that level of player agency in champion pulls.

In other words, the devs *intend* for players to think the crystal is either too rare or insufficiently curated. Players want a lot of things, but the devs explicitly avoid giving all of those things. This is one of those things the devs want players to have, but they will not give. Ironically, this thread is positive feedback.

Yeah I know. Economic design reality is very unpopular. Flag away.
If that's the intent then what's the desired outcome of that intent? I've anecdotally seen some feedback that players just stop caring about titan crystals, don't open them anymore until there's enough champs that they perceive as desirable (I thought Kabam didn't want to incentivise hoarding?), or are so dissapointed with their pulls they stop playing the game as intensely as they did. This is what I read on the forums and seen on different line chats.

Those don't seem like a positive outcome that benefits kabam so I'm really wondering: if that's the intent then what's the intended outcome?
@DNA3000 Just a tag because I'm curious what your speculations are about the intended outcome and don't want you to forget this thread
Sorry I failed to respond. I can't speak for the devs, but in my opinion, the rationale for the Titan crystal and the intended player behavioral outcome has to do with the fact that it replaces the old featured crystals, and Kabam in fact explicitly articulated this position when the Titan was introduced. It would be useful to go over what drove the change from featureds to Titans for context.

The previous featured crystal had two flaws. The first was that they were purchased with the same currency as basics. The reason why that's a problem is that it presents a choice the devs did not want players to have to make: to choose whether to open basics in general, or forgo basics in order to, in effect, manipulate the odds of the featured crystal. The featured crystal was always intended to be, at least in part, the in-game way to earn chances at early access to champs (the paid offers being the monetization path to that early access). But the *original* featured crystal had a problem. It was basically five to one odds to get the featured champ. All you had to do was save enough shards and you could almost guarantee getting the featured immediately. This encouraged shifting shards from basics to featureds to specifically overpower the odds and eliminate the random nature of the crystal.

Why this is a problem is that the devs intend the featured to only provide a chance for the featured, and the only way to regulate that chance is to either adjust the odds of the crystal, or reduce the amount of shards available. But since the shards for the featured are the same as for basic crystals, if they reduce the supply of shards, that impacts everyone everywhere, not just featured hoarders. They couldn't really constrain those.

Their first attempt to address this was to switch from the old school featureds to the previous iteration, the one with 24 champs in the pool. This was an attempt to tackle the problem from the odds side of the equation. If they didn't want to starve players of shards, they had to reduce the odds of getting the featured champ from the crystal. They chose to do that by creating a crystal with six featured and eighteen basic champs. This reduces the odds of pulling any one specific champ from five to one to 24 to 1. However, what I believe they clearly saw from the data was that this did not deter the players from hoarding 6* shards and using huge numbers of pulls to still target featured champs quickly. I was one of those people in fact. And over time they continued to increase the supply of 6* shards (as part of the normal process of expanding the game economy over time) which made it even easier to hoard up enough shards to once again essentially overwhelm the crystal odds with pulls.

This continued behavior exposed the second flaw with the featureds, which was that they weren't really strong incentive rewards. If the players are saving and sitting on hundreds of thousands of shards waiting for the next featured crystal, putting a featured crystal into the rewards for a piece of content would have no real incentive power. In fact, the second iteration 24 champ featured was in many ways even less valuable than the previous iteration one in five featured crystal for this reason. Game inflation made it possible to open 6* featured crystals in numbers impossible with the original featured crystal, and made the value of any one featured crystal very low.

(I once opened 72 featureds in a single cycle, and that was not a singular aberration. I also opened 69 crystals in a different cycle).

The Titan crystal, and the system surrounding it, is intended to address both problems: eliminate the option that allows players to shift basic currency into featured currency, which forces the devs to continuously decide whether they are giving too much basic currency, and to ensure the Titan crystal's value isn't obliterated by players saving up for huge numbers of them. Titan crystal currency is completely different from 7* currency, and in fact the best way to get Titan crystal currency is to *burn* 7* shards, not hoard them. And because Titan crystals cannot be purchased in large quantities, they still have significant incentive value in the game. Very few players can claim to have so many Titans they don't really care if they get one more.

The question you're asking is: given that some players do not like the Titan structure, don't value it much, or even check out of the pursuit of them, what was the intent of the developers in terms of player behavior. And I believe the answer is, in spite of some players expressing those feelings, the vast majority do not agree, or at least behave differently. I don't have access to spending or activity data, but my suspicion is that across the entire playerbase, players value Titans more than they did Featureds. They get fewer, they are harder to get, so they appreciate all opportunities to get more. Even the title of this thread bears this out. When players say they need more Titans, that's the intended purpose of Titans. You didn't see players begging for more featureds.

People say the Titan crystal is meh, but if it was meh we wouldn't be talking about it. The featured crystal was meh. It wasn't that it had no value, because if it didn't players wouldn't bother with it. Rather, it had pedestrian value. It was just a thing to use to get the featured champs, in the same way the login calendar gives units. But players *feel* the Titan, in a way they didn't feel the featured. They think if only they had one more pull, or five more, they might get what they want. They chase Titan shards, and they post threads saying the players deserve more shards.

In my opinion, that was the intended outcome of the Titan.

Thanks for your explanation. I agree actually with what you're saying. I slightly disagree with your reasoning in the end.

You say the fact that the titan crystal is talked about means it isn't "meh". But the reason it's talked about is that it's turning into a meh crystal.

I agree that it's getting talked about necaise it has such high prizes. Onslaught, serpent, prowler, bullseye etc are high value champs for everyone. But the fact that they put in mediocre champs or champs that absolutely need sig200 to be good is what is annoying people so much.

But I see that the annoyance makes people want to open more to have a better chance at a pull they find desirable. And that pull is an immediate jackpot for most top options in the crystal so in that regard it kinda makes sense.

High risk high reward type crystal I guess?

1199345 · June 23

Fixing an annoying feature with a slightly less annoying yet equally questionable feature isn't a good look...

If the titan pool is going to be so meh, we need more opportunities to open them

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