How does bullseye having a theoretical infinite duration evade on standby any fair to players?

Heruzu369Heruzu369 Member Posts: 139 ★★
edited July 2 in General Discussion


I’ve brought this months ago but I dont understand why Bullseye can pocket an automatic “cant hit me” mechanic for literally however long he(the AI) wants to simply because the evade will not go away unless it’s 3 seconds AFTER a special or upon the evade triggering. As an attacker, for a low damage champ it’s pretty helpful. But as a defender who already has unavoidable “fun and interactive damage”, why does he need a guaranteed infinite duration evade on his defensive kit that sets him up for a GUARANTEED punish??? How is that not deemed excessive??

With all the AI problems and reliance in the game already, why would a champion be allowed to theoretically completely stop a fight??? I’ve had fights in war and battlegrounds where the fight literally had just became me dashing back hoping he uses a special, while he just continues to rush me into the corner. If the time alone spent being FORCED to bait a special doesn’t cost you a match In BGs(on top of the fun and interactive damage) then getting rushed into a corner simply because the AI decided you won’t hit him again will. So altogether this is by far one of the worst and most asinine decisions I’ve ever come across from a gaming company in a fighting game.

SOLUTION
Obviously I didn’t come here just to point out a horrible toxic mechanic in the game without offering a simple solution of my own that’s still true to the champ. I believe if WHILE AS A DEFENDER, he evade timer DIDNT pause except for when uses a special it’ll be much more fair for players attacking. This would mean he still has his evade after gaining a bar of power like usually, but instead of the timer WAITING for him to use a special, it’s just begins immediately. This would allow bullseye to still create hiccups on the flow of a match by preventing attackers from being too aggressive, while also stripping the champ Ai of the ability to completely deadlock a match EVERY 5-7 HITS.
Also, this would allow attackers to actually push him to his sp2 which most champs in the game cannot do because of the mechanic above.

Conclusion
Having a mechanic that can completely remove the players ability to control any aspect of a match while already being on a stacked defended who can be placed on hundreds of different nodes creates a defensive powerhouse who is essentially gamebreaking.
I’d argue this is the most unjustified defensive champ in MCOC history since even Domino required at the very least a high investment. Bullseye requires NO investment, has MORE unavoidable fun and interactive damage, AND possesses a counter-attack evade that not only works through stuns(which only lands 50% of the time anyways) but also has theoretical infinite duration that GUARANTEES a special punishment.
So yeah… if that’s not completely BROKEN and unjustified then I really don’t know what is at this point 🤷🏾‍♂️
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Comments

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  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★


    Great solution, one champ 👍

    Maybe negasonic too? Unless obviously he's dropped an sp1 already then she's useles.ls... so onslaught? I mean you'd have to sacrifice a top defender to use him on attack but he does work
    You could also use the million other bullseye counters there are. Nova and Emma can also stop his evade and nuke him. You can also turn his evade off by hitting him right into a relic or special and his evade goes back on cooldown
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    altavista said:

    Emilia90 said:


    Great solution, one champ 👍

    Maybe negasonic too? Unless obviously he's dropped an sp1 already then she's useles.ls... so onslaught? I mean you'd have to sacrifice a top defender to use him on attack but he does work
    You could also use the million other bullseye counters there are. Nova and Emma can also stop his evade and nuke him. You can also turn his evade off by hitting him right into a relic or special and his evade goes back on cooldown
    I more have an issue with passive AI and the interaction with infinite killer instinct.

    Setting aside getting instant bleed damage, if you’re not using an evade counter then you’re at the mercy of Bullseye’ AI being nice enough to throw his special.

    Imagine Necropolis type content, which is already a long fight, but is made even longer just cause the Bullseye AI doesn’t want to throw their special. You can’t do anything (without using an evade counter) and just have to dance around.

    In contrast, look at Negasonic. There is a chance she won’t evade, or you can skillfully heavy counter, or you can bring in a tech, or you can bring in an evade counter. That is a much better design that doesn’t rely strictly on hard counters or friendly AI behavior.
    I agree that the AI can be bad, but I’ve fought bullseye a ton and even on his worst AI day, he’s not that hard to get an sp1 out of. He seems more trigger happy with it than most other champs in the game

    It’s definitely an issue in Necro type content, but as it stands now, I haven’t had much of an issue. I also sometimes turn off his killer instinct by using a hit into a relic or special. It sucks that he wasn’t tuned down more, but this is what we have to work with and he does have a ton of counters
  • Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Member Posts: 1,708 ★★★★★
    How does a champion exist that gets lowered to 1% then gain 4 bars of power? How does a champion exist that gives unavoidable damage only lowered by blocking, on a brute force node. Or applying effects no-one is yet immune to made worse if you're metal. That's defenders these days.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,027 ★★★★★
    I'm not saying domino/peni is as tough as bullseye.
    What I'm saying is, they messed up by introducing a Very OP defender and from now every other mutant released have to pass the bullseye test like how every other tech/cosmic champ is expected to pass the domino test/peni test.
  • Heruzu369Heruzu369 Member Posts: 139 ★★
    Emilia90 said:

    altavista said:

    Emilia90 said:


    Great solution, one champ 👍

    Maybe negasonic too? Unless obviously he's dropped an sp1 already then she's useles.ls... so onslaught? I mean you'd have to sacrifice a top defender to use him on attack but he does work
    You could also use the million other bullseye counters there are. Nova and Emma can also stop his evade and nuke him. You can also turn his evade off by hitting him right into a relic or special and his evade goes back on cooldown
    I more have an issue with passive AI and the interaction with infinite killer instinct.

    Setting aside getting instant bleed damage, if you’re not using an evade counter then you’re at the mercy of Bullseye’ AI being nice enough to throw his special.

    Imagine Necropolis type content, which is already a long fight, but is made even longer just cause the Bullseye AI doesn’t want to throw their special. You can’t do anything (without using an evade counter) and just have to dance around.

    In contrast, look at Negasonic. There is a chance she won’t evade, or you can skillfully heavy counter, or you can bring in a tech, or you can bring in an evade counter. That is a much better design that doesn’t rely strictly on hard counters or friendly AI behavior.
    I agree that the AI can be bad, but I’ve fought bullseye a ton and even on his worst AI day, he’s not that hard to get an sp1 out of. He seems more trigger happy with it than most other champs in the game

    It’s definitely an issue in Necro type content, but as it stands now, I haven’t had much of an issue. I also sometimes turn off his killer instinct by using a hit into a relic or special. It sucks that he wasn’t tuned down more, but this is what we have to work with and he does have a ton of counters
    As I noted earlier, I’ve personally on many occasions been rushed down and forced into a corner simply because he didn’t want to throw a special. Even if his AI is coded to throw specials a lot(which isn’t stated anywhere) that doesn’t mean it’s gonna work. I mean we see intimidate and infuriate not work right as well, or how many of us had a taunt on a champ and they didn’t throw a special? These things definitely happen in the game and aren’t rare. The champ possesses an ability to deadlock a fight every 5-7 hits. Regardless on the likelihood he does decide to do that, he shouldn’t even posses it. It shouldn’t even be theoretically possible for a game like this. Especially in competitive modes
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    edited July 2
    Dab_west said:

    should be talking about how bs serpent is instead of bullseye but yea. many bullseye counters exist, the evade isnt the most annoying thing about bullseye

    Serpent is a million times worse. Bullseye can be countered by everyone and their grandma on an average battlegrounds deck and while he is annoying, he’s not nearly as bad fr

    Also he’s not getting tuned down. OP made 3 threads on this but now you’ll just have to learn to fight him lmao
  • Heruzu369Heruzu369 Member Posts: 139 ★★
    Sheesh this game is spiraling so poorly that a thread can’t be made on one champ without x,y,z being mentioned all because EVERY.SINGLE.DEFENDER since December(8 Months ago) has been an unhealthy predatory addition to the game. So I can’t even blame ya(unless ya defend these practices)

    Maestro(gets a pass since he’s Necro related)
    Onslaught(unavoidable dmg)
    Bullseye(unavoidable dmg)
    Serpent ( Tanky, won’t die, lots of power, unavoidable dmg)
    Destroyer(LOTS OF POWER, unavoidable sp3💀🤣though science class does have options)
    Dust(Unavoidable dmg)

    What makes this even more of a joke is only 2/6 of these champs are even remotely viable offensively. The rest just exist to frustrate the player playing the game
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    Heruzu369 said:

    Sheesh this game is spiraling so poorly that a thread can’t be made on one champ without x,y,z being mentioned all because EVERY.SINGLE.DEFENDER since December(8 Months ago) has been an unhealthy predatory addition to the game. So I can’t even blame ya(unless ya defend these practices)

    Maestro(gets a pass since he’s Necro related)
    Onslaught(unavoidable dmg)
    Bullseye(unavoidable dmg)
    Serpent ( Tanky, won’t die, lots of power, unavoidable dmg)
    Destroyer(LOTS OF POWER, unavoidable sp3💀🤣though science class does have options)
    Dust(Unavoidable dmg)

    What makes this even more of a joke is only 2/6 of these champs are even remotely viable offensively. The rest just exist to frustrate the player playing the game

    Ok now you’re just whining for the sake of whining

    Destroyer isn’t even close to being hard and has a ton of counters, tons of champs nuke and turn off dust, maestro has a ton of counters, and onslaught can be nuked by a lot. Bullseye has a ton of counters too and Serpent is the only truly bs one

    Maybe try getting good
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    Heruzu369 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Heruzu369 said:

    Sheesh this game is spiraling so poorly that a thread can’t be made on one champ without x,y,z being mentioned all because EVERY.SINGLE.DEFENDER since December(8 Months ago) has been an unhealthy predatory addition to the game. So I can’t even blame ya(unless ya defend these practices)

    Maestro(gets a pass since he’s Necro related)
    Onslaught(unavoidable dmg)
    Bullseye(unavoidable dmg)
    Serpent ( Tanky, won’t die, lots of power, unavoidable dmg)
    Destroyer(LOTS OF POWER, unavoidable sp3💀🤣though science class does have options)
    Dust(Unavoidable dmg)

    What makes this even more of a joke is only 2/6 of these champs are even remotely viable offensively. The rest just exist to frustrate the player playing the game

    Ok now you’re just whining for the sake of whining

    Destroyer isn’t even close to being hard and has a ton of counters, tons of champs nuke and turn off dust, maestro has a ton of counters, and onslaught can be nuked by a lot. Bullseye has a ton of counters too and Serpent is the only truly bs one

    Maybe try getting good
    WOW your mouth stay full doesn’t it?
    You started with destroyer when he’s the specific one I noted has counters in the opposite class.
    No matter how delusional you are, 2024 being the year of trash attackers and overbearing defenders is a rather known one in the community atp.
    Sheesh! a muncher for A mobile game is outlandish
    The attackers being disappointing is a sentiment that a lot of us share, but half the defenders you pointed out aren’t even hard to fight. 2 of them are also from 2023…

    Serpent is the only truly bs defender this whole year. Bullseye has like 20+ counters and you’d know that if you actually played the game or watched guides on YouTube

    Funny calling me what when you’re writing essays because you can’t fight bullseye. 3rd thread on it and you still spend more time complaining then learning how to get good
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,707 ★★★★★
    I never understood why he evades at all.. He can't miss... Doesnt mean he can evade 😤
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★
    edited July 2
    Dab_west said:

    should be talking about how bs serpent is instead of bullseye but yea. many bullseye counters exist, the evade isnt the most annoying thing about bullseye

    They are both BS but Serpent is more BS
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,062 ★★★★★

    I never understood why he evades at all.. He can't miss... Doesnt mean he can evade 😤

    It's a counter evade. He evades then throws a card into someone's face
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Dab_west said:

    should be talking about how bs serpent is instead of bullseye but yea. many bullseye counters exist, the evade isnt the most annoying thing about bullseye

    They are both BS
    Most bleed immunes with good damage take him out easily and he doesn’t have cheat death or massive resistances. Serpent is a million times more limited while bullseye can be killed in 30-45 seconds by about 25 different champs
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,462 ★★★★★
    Heruzu369 said:

    Sheesh this game is spiraling so poorly that a thread can’t be made on one champ without x,y,z being mentioned all because EVERY.SINGLE.DEFENDER since December(8 Months ago) has been an unhealthy predatory addition to the game. So I can’t even blame ya(unless ya defend these practices)

    Maestro(gets a pass since he’s Necro related)
    Onslaught(unavoidable dmg)
    Bullseye(unavoidable dmg)
    Serpent ( Tanky, won’t die, lots of power, unavoidable dmg)
    Destroyer(LOTS OF POWER, unavoidable sp3💀🤣though science class does have options)
    Dust(Unavoidable dmg)

    What makes this even more of a joke is only 2/6 of these champs are even remotely viable offensively. The rest just exist to frustrate the player playing the game

    I agree with the sentiment of not liking so many new defenders lately, but out of who you listed only bullseye and serpent are truly toxic.

    Maestro: I don’t love his damage when staying close to him but that’s only after ramp, and many counters can kill him before reaching that stage of ramp. He also has a lot of counters, some of whom make him a complete joke (Cgr, juggs, etc.) imo he’s a great example of how difficult a top defender should be. He’s not an insta draft but a strong option nonetheless.

    Onslaught: I used to not like him as a defender, but as we’ve had more practice with him he’s become more reasonable. He’s supposed to be a 5/5 defender, and he is that. Other than the neuroshocks every mechanic of his can be managed with skill, which is a stark contrast to bullseye and serpent. To me he is a true representation of a 5/5 defender, which is why when I compare serpent or bullseye to him I say they’re overtuned. The only part of him that makes him worse than a 5/5 defender is his awful ai lmao, but in terms of his kit I don’t think he’s higher than a 5.

    Bullseye: yes he has lots of counters now, but fighting him just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. His mechanics punish skillful play, and also leave little you can do to get around them. While yes new counters have made him far more manageable in bgs, his design is still absolutely terrible. He feels like if OG daredevil got 8 different toxic nodes thrown into his base kit.

    Serpent: serpent takes everything I said about bullseye but he does a little less chip damage, r has 1/3 of the counters, adds much more health, adds ridiculous power gain, and cheats death.
    Serpent is NOT a 5/5 defender, he’s a 7/5. Maestro and onslaught are 5/5 defenders, and to me they almost perfectly achieve that level of difficulty. I also like the point someone made about nodes adding even more unnecessary difficulty, serpent has undexable specials, so what happens when he’s unblockable? Brute force was also mentioned. Bullseye and serpent are awful on block pen nodes, as if they weren’t already a pain with no nodes. As I said before it’s just terrible design.

    Destroyer: his power gain and sp3 is not at all unavoidable. You can bait 2 sp1s before he gets it which is plenty of time to kill him before he reaches 100 charges. You can also bring someone who controls power gain like Chavez, or blocks unblockable specials like shuri or Kushala. Or the easiest and best option is to just bait sp2s. It’s unblockable yes but it’s also a very easy dex, not very mechanically challenging you just have to learn it and practice a little bit.

    Dust: also not unavoidable damage, if you don’t hit block or wait a little bit for the sand debuff a to fall off before they stack, she never has to get pushed into sandstorm. She also isn’t particularly tanky and quite a few champs completely nuke her. Right now I just think a lot of ppl don’t know how to fight her, as more learn she’ll get easier. The only thing about her that’s bs is the amount of particles on the screen during her sandstorm lmao. Like seriously it’s a bit excessive.

    I’d say all of them are viable attackers, but only onslaught is a particularly strong attacker. I do wish a couple of these champs were a little toned down on defense and tuned up on attack, but I’ve seen examples of all of these champs putting up good scores on attack in the right matchups.
  • JT_SupremeJT_Supreme Member Posts: 1,246 ★★★★
    I had a bullseye with 1% left when he got his evade. So I stopped attacking and he didn’t throw his special for 10 seconds. So I got tilted dashed into his block and then took 50% damage plus another 20 seconds. I lost that round lol
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,183 ★★★★★
    I don't like it either but I've also done no research into countering. I should probably do something about that.

  • Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Member Posts: 1,708 ★★★★★
    edited July 2
    EdisonLaw said:

    I never understood why he evades at all.. He can't miss... Doesnt mean he can evade 😤

    It's a counter evade. He evades then throws a card into someone's face
    But evading isn't part of bullseyes kit. Daredevil for example has radar sense. Bullseye is just a peak human dude with expert marksmanship also adamantium laced bones,could've done something with that. But I digress, criticals make sense, never missing, sure, instant bleeds annoying but sure, but evading is just silly.

    For the record, I haven't struggled with bullseye since his release, just pointing out that that specific choice in character design doesn't fit bullseye.
  • GrO_ot78GrO_ot78 Member Posts: 688 ★★★
    edited July 2
    Knull, Odin, AA, Kitty, both Storms, Molegod, Venom, Sinister +++ plenty great options for him.
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