Deep Dive: The Leader

EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
in General Discussion
https://youtu.be/k3g8DQsf0zk?si=nGk22O2J6xmCuhRM

Thoughts? Post them here
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Comments

  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    Mysterio said:

    My first impressions:
    1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
    2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
    3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

    Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

    He should be decent for attack against mystics, power gain champs like Hype, regen champs like Gorr, etc. His big damage however is the sp3
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

    It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

    Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

    He looks ugly

    I think power dissolve deals damage when their power is drained, not when it hits zero.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,012 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    captain_rogers said:

    There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

    It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

    Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

    He looks ugly

    I think power dissolve deals damage when their power is drained, not when it hits zero.
    I wonder how it interact with serpent.
  • ShashankGuptaShashankGupta Member Posts: 539 ★★★
    Mysterio said:

    My first impressions:
    1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
    2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
    3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

    Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

    That one disagree has been given by me
    Your first point is totally wrong in bg he will probably a nuke with the sp3 rotation when you will use sp3 opponent would probably lost so much hp because of willpower reverse
    Your second point is right
    Your third point is also right

    Your last words are also wrong he is not that difficult to use just need to keep opponent above the green door and FYI sandman counters unstoppable with the sp2 decelerate debuff
  • Fit_Fun9329Fit_Fun9329 Member Posts: 2,196 ★★★★★
    Eb0ny-O-M4w said:

    Man I really dislike these silly "floor/trap" mechanics ...

    Yes. As soon as I see those mechanics at a champ - i am out
  • MysterioMysterio Member Posts: 1,107 ★★★★
    ShashankGupta said:

    Mysterio said:

    My first impressions:
    1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
    2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
    3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

    Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

    That one disagree has been given by me
    Your first point is totally wrong in bg he will probably a nuke with the sp3 rotation when you will use sp3 opponent would probably lost so much hp because of willpower reverse
    Your second point is right
    Your third point is also right

    Your last words are also wrong he is not that difficult to use just need to keep opponent above the green door and FYI sandman counters unstoppable with the sp2 decelerate debuff
    I'll wait to see his usefulness in BG, see potential but also risk.
    I know Sandman counters unstoppable. That's what I meant with the final part.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    The green door does make them more aggressive and allow for intercepts, so the ramp may be faster than usual, but we’ll see
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,479 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    The green door does make them more aggressive and allow for intercepts, so the ramp may be faster than usual, but we’ll see
    Yes but that won't make the fight quicker cause you'll also be constantly baiting sp1s, that's the main reason Punk is so slow and he sucks. You're so busy baiting sp1s what could've been a 40 sec fight turns into 60.
    Leader might be slightly quicker since he shuts down MD completely but I doubt he'll be fast enough even then, we'll see though.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    No matter how many times we go through this, the community insists on judging champs before we get our hands on them.

    Take a beat, y’all. Once content creators start actually playing them and we start seeing where they fit, then we’ll have enough information to begin forming opinions. Right now we can see a bunch of individual parts, but not necessarily the whole pictures.

    He just asked for first impressions though, nobody's saying he will definitely be trash for sure. Just doesn't look that impressive at first glance is all.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
    So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
    So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
    It's not meant to be used on WP, it's meant to be used on actual regen effects.
  • ShashankGuptaShashankGupta Member Posts: 539 ★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
    So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
    That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
    So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
    But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    No matter how many times we go through this, the community insists on judging champs before we get our hands on them.

    Take a beat, y’all. Once content creators start actually playing them and we start seeing where they fit, then we’ll have enough information to begin forming opinions. Right now we can see a bunch of individual parts, but not necessarily the whole pictures.

    So far he does look good though from a first glance. Great regen and power gain counter
  • ShashankGuptaShashankGupta Member Posts: 539 ★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    ShashankGupta said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
    So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
    That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
    So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
    But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀
    Pushing to sp3 is death against most defenders tbh
    Yes but sometimes you get saved by abilities like titania indestructible or war indestructible boost heimdall and many more my point is that degen is scary probably the biggest base dot damage in the game
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,044 ★★★★★
    Also this is kinda unrelated but I can’t find the champion spotlights on the actual MCOC website, are they not there yet?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    ShashankGupta said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Emilia90 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

    As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

    As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
    Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

    Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
    So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
    That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
    So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
    But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀
    In order to use the spectre the way you want to use it you'd have to remove the despair mastery which I'm pretty sure almost everyone has cause without it, a lot of science champs get absolutely ruined by WP.
    If you don't remove Despair you will have 20 debuffs on them during most of the fight and because Despair is already shutting down WP 100% you won't be reversing any healing except when the vitality passive is up but it's only 25% potency you will probably be better of going for sp3 than spamming sp1 at that point.
    I could be wrong though, it's very hard to tell if he'll be good or not cause a lot of masteries interact with his kit and it makes everything very confusing.
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