I remember after the 12.0 fiasco kabam posted a whole “we’ve listened and we’ve learned” apology. Let’s hope they see the 30+ pages of negative feedback and are smart enough to listen and learn again.
I remember after the 12.0 fiasco kabam posted a whole “we’ve listened and we’ve learned” apology. Let’s hope they see the 30+ pages of negative feedback and are smart enough to listen and learn again.
I seen SEATIN the youtuber discuss this and i agree with SEATIN. I dont agree with this new featured 5 star crystal.
Even Brian Grant is against this UNLESS:
As it stands, I'm not a fan of this change. But I'm hoping there is more to this update than we can see, and I would be all for this new system if it allowed Kabam to make the following game improvements:
- More shards from AW
- More shards from Alliance events
- 5stars added to Arena
With all due respect to Brian (and he does lightly touch on this in his video) it is entirely possible, and likely, that this crystal change is part of a longer term plan to change how 5* champions and shards work that has already started that includes making 5* shards much more available.
We're getting 5* shards at least three times faster for higher tier players than we were getting them originally, and I suspect that 5* shards will continue to get easier to get over time. 5* champions used to be a pursuit goal of the game: a very rare very powerful reward to chase after. Every game like this has one. But with the planned release of 6* champions, it is obvious that 6* champions are going to replace 5* champions as the hard to get pursuit goal of the game. 5* champions are going to become just a very valuable commodity.
With that shift, the game is changing over time to treat 5* champions as less of a very rare thing you are lucky to get one or two of, and more of a "collect them all" thing like 4* champions currently are. In that kind of game, the current 5* featured crystal is a bit out of place. We got used to using them as essentially a near-guaranteed shot at a specific desirable champion if we can just save enough shards. But they were originally designed in a game where you might only get two or three shots at that one-in-five chance for that champion, and only after a long time saving. 5* shards are now plentiful enough that for many people, that crystal is an 80% or even 90% chance of getting a specific champion.
Back when we had something closer to two or three shots at the featured, the featured crystal was offering in effect a 30% to 50% chance at a specific featured, and only for the very few players that could save that much. With three times as many tries as before (6 to 9), the new crystal now offers approximately a 23% to 32% chance to get one specific champion. To reach the same 30% to 50% chance you'd have to open about 8 to 16 crystals respectively. I would not be surprised at all to discover that by the end of the year I earning five times as many 5* shards as I was before the game started ramping them up.
We're comparing the almost guaranteed shots we have at the featured with this new crystal, but that might not be a fair comparison. If this crystal is part of the overall game trajectory that includes the rise of 5* shard availability, then we should really compare the original 5* crystal with original 5* shard availability compared to the new crystal with both the current and the projected 5* shard availability. They actually aren't all that different in terms of getting a specific featured champ. But what's different is the sheer number of 5* champions players can now get. To put it another way, the old crystal was designed for a game where for every featured champion you got you also got four other 5* champs. The new crystal is designed for a game where for every *specific* featured champion you get, you also (on average) get five other featured champions and eighteen other basic champions.
In other words, the new crystal is designed for a game where players are going to be earning 5* champions at about six times the original rate.
One more thing. The current featured crystal is better if you want one specific champion and you are a part of the very small group of players that can reasonably save enough shards to make it reasonable to go for. I'm a member of that group, but it is a very small group of players relative to the total. The new system, which is giving players a lot more tries for a lower probability crystal has the side effect of giving all players more 5* champions. Players like me are getting numerically more of them. Lower players than me are getting 5* champions that would have been completely out of reach to obtain under the old game.
When we say the new crystal is bad for players, it isn't bad for all players. It is bad for only a small subset of players. For all the players that couldn't reasonably save for a reasonable number of shots at featured, the new game benefits them quite a bit. First, because the new featured has a lower chance for genuine squibs, regardless of hyperbole that says otherwise. And second, because even if they don't go for featured, the fact that the game is moving to a model with a higher abundance of 5* shards means they will get more 5* champions either way, whether they buy the new featured or just buy basics.
I think Brian was on the right track basically, but I think he incorrectly prefaces a lot of statements with "ifs" as if those things didn't already happen and aren't continuing to happen. I think he sees the huge increase in 5* shard availability has something that we can just take for granted as a given, but the change in crystals is something we can separate from it and demand ala carte. That's not how game design works. Systems and system evolution is designed as parts of a whole, and you can't just pick the parts you like and jettison the parts you don't like. They are designed to be balanced against each other, and it seems likely to me that the new featured crystal is balanced for an environment where 5* shards are much more available, and the goal of the game is to make sure everyone has more 5* champions to use. In a game where you are giving people several times more tries at the bullseye, the bullseye has to get smaller.
When 6* champions arrive, duping 5* champions will become a more valuable event. For a player buying basics, the odds of a dup are relatively low, and will rise over time (as they fill their roster). For a player buying featureds, the odds of a dup become much higher: maybe four times higher on average, rising over time. Which crystal generates more 6* shards becomes a function of the contents of the featured and the roster you currently possess, but the featured crystal is likely to generate more 6* shards more often. In a game where we are earning maybe twice as many 5* shards as we are now (which is where I think the game will eventually head, over a time scale of a year or two) and six times the amount we were earning when the original crystals were designed, I think it will become more important over time to build a large diverse 5* roster and generate dups than it will be to land one single specific 5* champion. It will just take time to get there.
People are using your highly "effective" champs out of necessity because that's all they've been able to pull and that's all they've been able to afford to go after.
I remember once in another game I used to play a developer once said that a certain game change was "impractical." A year later the game made that change, and for years afterward that developer was accused of lying to the playerbase when they claimed the game change was "impossible."
Even though the original post was produced, along with several contemporaneous discussions which proved the developer said "impractical" and not "impossible" literally hundreds of players over the years continued to claim the developers lied when they said it was "impossible."
I have never been able to figure out precisely how this mental error occurs, but its high frequency of occurrence has always fascinated me while also annoying me.
Guys it's not Kabam doing this. Let's not forget the in game message said it was the Grandmaster doing it. The negative feedback on how ridiculous this change is should be directed to him.
Will champs that are not available (Thor, Widow, Dr. Strange, Scarlett Witch, etc) now make it into the featured 5* crystal as part additional champions or maybe (hoping here) into the basic pool atleast.
Maybe someday? We still don't have any plans to release those Champions yet, but this might change in the future.
This change would not have the community in an uproar if the FGMC did not exist, or if the FGMC was changed to be in line with the new crystal (same possible pulls as the new crystal, except in 3-5 star versions instead of guaranteed 5-star version).
The way the changes go, if you want to get that exclusive new champ when s/he is released, the only way to get him/her is via the fgmc, which is very expensive at 300 units. And we all know the chances of getting the 5* version of that champ from the FGMC is very low... but we all love the game and so we still take the shot. It is not hard to see why everyone sees this as a "money grab" move by the company since it will encourage players to spend real money to buy these crystals. I can't say this is true, but it certainly looks that way because this is the situation that will be created by these changes.
before the change, you could just play regular EQ / AW/ Arena and get 5-star shards and get the champ with the 5-star featured crystal. With the changes, you can't, you'd have to 1) wait for the champ to go into the new crystal, which could be along time, and your chances are only 4% instead of the current estimation of ~20% 2) buy the expensive FGMC at 300 units a pop and pray for the best, and the vast majority of players will be disappointed
Yes, kabam is a business, it needs to make money. We don't have an issue with this. However, it's a two-way street. Treat us, the player base, with respect and we will return the favor by spending. Don't try to "rob" us by creating this situation where we feel forced to buy these expensive crystals in order to fully enjoy a game that we love. it was nice having the option there, but now you are taking away the other option that we had were we had a shot without spending money on a bad-odds slot machine.
It's not exactly a fair price at $10 a shot where it's a basically almost a guarantee it's a 3 star. The odds to cost ratio is bad, and while kabam has the right to price it however they want, and we the players aren't literally forced to buy it, it just seems that you don't care about the player base as much as you purported to. You said you appreciate us and want to do all these great content for us, but then you do this? What is the average wage of the typical player? US$10 a pop? Really? Why do you spit in our faces when we've done nothing but support the game? When we've tolerated so many missteps?
honestly, I understand that you can't please everyone and people will complain about every change, no matter what it is, even with changes that prove better in the long term. Steve Jobs built a successful business by banning focus groups and not listening to the customer. Maybe this crystal is good for the longer term... but really, with the FGMC being the same, and with the price tag at 300 units a piece, that just looks like greed.
Soo as for february 22, instead of opening a Blade 15,000 shard crystal with increased chance on Blade, we will be opening a 15,000 shard crystal from a fix 24 champion pool, with no increased chance on Blade, but a rather equal chance on Blade or Sentry?
Dude, you guys really need to read closer... there will be a re-release of the Blade Feature 15K shard crystal which will be the original Feature crystal for him that was released with an increased chance on Blade. The new 1:24 chance crystal will not include Blade.
This change would not have the community in an uproar if the FGMC did not exist, or if the FGMC was changed to be in line with the new crystal (same possible pulls as the new crystal, except in 3-5 star versions instead of guaranteed 5-star version).
We have all had **** jobs for the most part. What if Kabam Miike is a regular player like us and is extremely pissed about the new crystal too, but because of his **** job he has to come here and argue things that dont even make sense to him.
The cognitive dissonance Miike must feel working for this company...
Man, you would think after 31 pages of complaints and anger the greedy meatheads would do something. Clearly not.
(This isn't calling them out. Its just fact, proven by their lack of a response.)
Forumites would just complain about something else. I'm surprised Miike responds to anything at all.
It’s not so much a disconnect as it is bordering on disdain...”just shut up and give us your money, these changes benefit us and quite frankly your enjoyment of the game is of very little importance to us”.
@Kabam Miike Why not make a GOOD crystal that costs 20k that ONLY gives you a chance at 1 of 6 featured GOOD heroes? No increased chance, but an equal chance at a god tier champ. You could call it the...... GOD Tier crystal............. Just a thought, because this new one is to put it nicely..... Trash.
That would a) defeat the purpose of a random system, and b) end up being the only Crystal anyone opens.
OK, you don't have a 5 star in your profile but here you are with an opinion. Let me correct you:
1. It's still random. It's a 1 in 6 chance. So you're 100% off there.
2. So what? You're giving up one basic hero for a 1 in 6 chance of a new hero of which at least 2 are likely terrible heroes. If you spent 40K in shards you still wouldn't be likely to dupe that champ on 2 pulls.
I keep wondering why you post so much and play so little but think your opinion is something we all need on every subject. In this particular case your first statement is objectively false. You represent a demographic that does not keep the lights on here. I think you refer to this as being personal. It's statement of fact.
You keep trying to take shots at my Profile, which I never shared with anyone by the way, but I am a full grown adult. That has no effect on me. If you want to continue to have a conversation with me, you will have to do so without making it personal, which is what it is. Not "fact". Just cheap insults.
They didn't go through the process of creating that many Champs and releasing them as 5*s, just so they can pick out the God Tier ones and segregate them. Lol. We all earn the Shards the same as everyone else. The system is built on RNG. It doesn't get more fair than an equal chance at each Champ. What people are asking for is a way to beat the RNG and just jump to the favorable drops. This wouldn't happen for many reasons. If that was the case, they'd just do away with the Crystals and hand out God Tier Champs to everyone.
Everyone has to roll something they don't want. That's a part of RNG. No one is more entitled to better drops than anyone else. That's called fairness.
Everyone has to roll something they don't want. That's a part of RNG. No one is more entitled to better drops than anyone else. That's called fairness.
If Kabam wants to keep a 5 star featured crystal, there is one easy and sensible solution:
Make the champions in the crystal the 24 newest champions. End of story. Update the crystal every month, dropping the two oldest champions for the two newest ones. There would be no mystery as to which champions are included, no conspiracy theories, and no need for any ridiculous spin from staff.
Everyone has to roll something they don't want. That's a part of RNG. No one is more entitled to better drops than anyone else. That's called fairness.
That system was put in place a long time ago, when there were much less Shards floating around, and different Champs to go for. Everyone works for their Resources (not withstanding a small group that just logs on). It doesn't matter what stage you are at in the game. That doesn't entitle people to more favorable drops in a random system. The idea that one demographic works harder than the other is moot.
It's a random system for a reason. What people are asking for is them to pick and choose their own product and that would not be smart or fair on their part. The new changes have a range, and there's a reason for that.
@Kabam Miike Why not make a GOOD crystal that costs 20k that ONLY gives you a chance at 1 of 6 featured GOOD heroes? No increased chance, but an equal chance at a god tier champ. You could call it the...... GOD Tier crystal............. Just a thought, because this new one is to put it nicely..... Trash.
That would a) defeat the purpose of a random system, and b) end up being the only Crystal anyone opens.
OK, you don't have a 5 star in your profile but here you are with an opinion. Let me correct you:
1. It's still random. It's a 1 in 6 chance. So you're 100% off there.
2. So what? You're giving up one basic hero for a 1 in 6 chance of a new hero of which at least 2 are likely terrible heroes. If you spent 40K in shards you still wouldn't be likely to dupe that champ on 2 pulls.
I keep wondering why you post so much and play so little but think your opinion is something we all need on every subject. In this particular case your first statement is objectively false. You represent a demographic that does not keep the lights on here. I think you refer to this as being personal. It's statement of fact.
You keep trying to take shots at my Profile, which I never shared with anyone by the way, but I am a full grown adult. That has no effect on me. If you want to continue to have a conversation with me, you will have to do so without making it personal, which is what it is. Not "fact". Just cheap insults.
They didn't go through the process of creating that many Champs and releasing them as 5*s, just so they can pick out the God Tier ones and segregate them. Lol. We all earn the Shards the same as everyone else. The system is built on RNG. It doesn't get more fair than an equal chance at each Champ. What people are asking for is a way to beat the RNG and just jump to the favorable drops. This wouldn't happen for many reasons. If that was the case, they'd just do away with the Crystals and hand out God Tier Champs to everyone.
Everyone has to roll something they don't want. That's a part of RNG. No one is more entitled to better drops than anyone else. That's called fairness.
Being classified as an adult is a subjective thing.
Here is what is objective:
You said the proposal by someone to have a 20k crystal with the 6 champs on it wasn’t random. It is. You’re wrong.
Those 6 champs aren’t god tier champs necessarily.
I have not posted your profile but I could. I have not posted your twitter account but I could. In fact I won’t.
It’s not “personal” when I note you have 3 r5 4 stars in your profile with Doctor Voodoo as your avatar. I think people should know where you’re coming from. That’s your frame of reference.
I don’t know why that upsets you. Your opinion on 5 stars should be noted in the context of the game you play. Nothing to be ashamed by. It’s a game. You don’t have 5 star heroes in your profile. As an adult I think you could accept that.
Comments
yea ok lol
With all due respect to Brian (and he does lightly touch on this in his video) it is entirely possible, and likely, that this crystal change is part of a longer term plan to change how 5* champions and shards work that has already started that includes making 5* shards much more available.
We're getting 5* shards at least three times faster for higher tier players than we were getting them originally, and I suspect that 5* shards will continue to get easier to get over time. 5* champions used to be a pursuit goal of the game: a very rare very powerful reward to chase after. Every game like this has one. But with the planned release of 6* champions, it is obvious that 6* champions are going to replace 5* champions as the hard to get pursuit goal of the game. 5* champions are going to become just a very valuable commodity.
With that shift, the game is changing over time to treat 5* champions as less of a very rare thing you are lucky to get one or two of, and more of a "collect them all" thing like 4* champions currently are. In that kind of game, the current 5* featured crystal is a bit out of place. We got used to using them as essentially a near-guaranteed shot at a specific desirable champion if we can just save enough shards. But they were originally designed in a game where you might only get two or three shots at that one-in-five chance for that champion, and only after a long time saving. 5* shards are now plentiful enough that for many people, that crystal is an 80% or even 90% chance of getting a specific champion.
Back when we had something closer to two or three shots at the featured, the featured crystal was offering in effect a 30% to 50% chance at a specific featured, and only for the very few players that could save that much. With three times as many tries as before (6 to 9), the new crystal now offers approximately a 23% to 32% chance to get one specific champion. To reach the same 30% to 50% chance you'd have to open about 8 to 16 crystals respectively. I would not be surprised at all to discover that by the end of the year I earning five times as many 5* shards as I was before the game started ramping them up.
We're comparing the almost guaranteed shots we have at the featured with this new crystal, but that might not be a fair comparison. If this crystal is part of the overall game trajectory that includes the rise of 5* shard availability, then we should really compare the original 5* crystal with original 5* shard availability compared to the new crystal with both the current and the projected 5* shard availability. They actually aren't all that different in terms of getting a specific featured champ. But what's different is the sheer number of 5* champions players can now get. To put it another way, the old crystal was designed for a game where for every featured champion you got you also got four other 5* champs. The new crystal is designed for a game where for every *specific* featured champion you get, you also (on average) get five other featured champions and eighteen other basic champions.
In other words, the new crystal is designed for a game where players are going to be earning 5* champions at about six times the original rate.
One more thing. The current featured crystal is better if you want one specific champion and you are a part of the very small group of players that can reasonably save enough shards to make it reasonable to go for. I'm a member of that group, but it is a very small group of players relative to the total. The new system, which is giving players a lot more tries for a lower probability crystal has the side effect of giving all players more 5* champions. Players like me are getting numerically more of them. Lower players than me are getting 5* champions that would have been completely out of reach to obtain under the old game.
When we say the new crystal is bad for players, it isn't bad for all players. It is bad for only a small subset of players. For all the players that couldn't reasonably save for a reasonable number of shots at featured, the new game benefits them quite a bit. First, because the new featured has a lower chance for genuine squibs, regardless of hyperbole that says otherwise. And second, because even if they don't go for featured, the fact that the game is moving to a model with a higher abundance of 5* shards means they will get more 5* champions either way, whether they buy the new featured or just buy basics.
I think Brian was on the right track basically, but I think he incorrectly prefaces a lot of statements with "ifs" as if those things didn't already happen and aren't continuing to happen. I think he sees the huge increase in 5* shard availability has something that we can just take for granted as a given, but the change in crystals is something we can separate from it and demand ala carte. That's not how game design works. Systems and system evolution is designed as parts of a whole, and you can't just pick the parts you like and jettison the parts you don't like. They are designed to be balanced against each other, and it seems likely to me that the new featured crystal is balanced for an environment where 5* shards are much more available, and the goal of the game is to make sure everyone has more 5* champions to use. In a game where you are giving people several times more tries at the bullseye, the bullseye has to get smaller.
When 6* champions arrive, duping 5* champions will become a more valuable event. For a player buying basics, the odds of a dup are relatively low, and will rise over time (as they fill their roster). For a player buying featureds, the odds of a dup become much higher: maybe four times higher on average, rising over time. Which crystal generates more 6* shards becomes a function of the contents of the featured and the roster you currently possess, but the featured crystal is likely to generate more 6* shards more often. In a game where we are earning maybe twice as many 5* shards as we are now (which is where I think the game will eventually head, over a time scale of a year or two) and six times the amount we were earning when the original crystals were designed, I think it will become more important over time to build a large diverse 5* roster and generate dups than it will be to land one single specific 5* champion. It will just take time to get there.
I remember once in another game I used to play a developer once said that a certain game change was "impractical." A year later the game made that change, and for years afterward that developer was accused of lying to the playerbase when they claimed the game change was "impossible."
Even though the original post was produced, along with several contemporaneous discussions which proved the developer said "impractical" and not "impossible" literally hundreds of players over the years continued to claim the developers lied when they said it was "impossible."
I have never been able to figure out precisely how this mental error occurs, but its high frequency of occurrence has always fascinated me while also annoying me.
Maybe they will come in the 5 star arenas?
The way the changes go, if you want to get that exclusive new champ when s/he is released, the only way to get him/her is via the fgmc, which is very expensive at 300 units. And we all know the chances of getting the 5* version of that champ from the FGMC is very low... but we all love the game and so we still take the shot. It is not hard to see why everyone sees this as a "money grab" move by the company since it will encourage players to spend real money to buy these crystals. I can't say this is true, but it certainly looks that way because this is the situation that will be created by these changes.
before the change, you could just play regular EQ / AW/ Arena and get 5-star shards and get the champ with the 5-star featured crystal. With the changes, you can't, you'd have to 1) wait for the champ to go into the new crystal, which could be along time, and your chances are only 4% instead of the current estimation of ~20% 2) buy the expensive FGMC at 300 units a pop and pray for the best, and the vast majority of players will be disappointed
Yes, kabam is a business, it needs to make money. We don't have an issue with this. However, it's a two-way street. Treat us, the player base, with respect and we will return the favor by spending. Don't try to "rob" us by creating this situation where we feel forced to buy these expensive crystals in order to fully enjoy a game that we love. it was nice having the option there, but now you are taking away the other option that we had were we had a shot without spending money on a bad-odds slot machine.
It's not exactly a fair price at $10 a shot where it's a basically almost a guarantee it's a 3 star. The odds to cost ratio is bad, and while kabam has the right to price it however they want, and we the players aren't literally forced to buy it, it just seems that you don't care about the player base as much as you purported to. You said you appreciate us and want to do all these great content for us, but then you do this? What is the average wage of the typical player? US$10 a pop? Really? Why do you spit in our faces when we've done nothing but support the game? When we've tolerated so many missteps?
honestly, I understand that you can't please everyone and people will complain about every change, no matter what it is, even with changes that prove better in the long term. Steve Jobs built a successful business by banning focus groups and not listening to the customer. Maybe this crystal is good for the longer term... but really, with the FGMC being the same, and with the price tag at 300 units a piece, that just looks like greed.
Dude, you guys really need to read closer... there will be a re-release of the Blade Feature 15K shard crystal which will be the original Feature crystal for him that was released with an increased chance on Blade. The new 1:24 chance crystal will not include Blade.
I would take that bet.
oh yes, so am I man
The cognitive dissonance Miike must feel working for this company...
Forumites would just complain about something else. I'm surprised Miike responds to anything at all.
It’ll bite them beyond recovery, sooner or later.
You keep trying to take shots at my Profile, which I never shared with anyone by the way, but I am a full grown adult. That has no effect on me. If you want to continue to have a conversation with me, you will have to do so without making it personal, which is what it is. Not "fact". Just cheap insults.
They didn't go through the process of creating that many Champs and releasing them as 5*s, just so they can pick out the God Tier ones and segregate them. Lol. We all earn the Shards the same as everyone else. The system is built on RNG. It doesn't get more fair than an equal chance at each Champ. What people are asking for is a way to beat the RNG and just jump to the favorable drops. This wouldn't happen for many reasons. If that was the case, they'd just do away with the Crystals and hand out God Tier Champs to everyone.
Everyone has to roll something they don't want. That's a part of RNG. No one is more entitled to better drops than anyone else. That's called fairness.
Also, the system THEY put in place allowed ppl to WORK towards better odds at a desired champ.
RNG has to be part of this game but what exactly is so wrong about an element of effort = desired reward as opposed to effort = more gamble?
Make the champions in the crystal the 24 newest champions. End of story. Update the crystal every month, dropping the two oldest champions for the two newest ones. There would be no mystery as to which champions are included, no conspiracy theories, and no need for any ridiculous spin from staff.
That system was put in place a long time ago, when there were much less Shards floating around, and different Champs to go for. Everyone works for their Resources (not withstanding a small group that just logs on). It doesn't matter what stage you are at in the game. That doesn't entitle people to more favorable drops in a random system. The idea that one demographic works harder than the other is moot.
It's a random system for a reason. What people are asking for is them to pick and choose their own product and that would not be smart or fair on their part. The new changes have a range, and there's a reason for that.
Being classified as an adult is a subjective thing.
Here is what is objective:
You said the proposal by someone to have a 20k crystal with the 6 champs on it wasn’t random. It is. You’re wrong.
Those 6 champs aren’t god tier champs necessarily.
I have not posted your profile but I could. I have not posted your twitter account but I could. In fact I won’t.
It’s not “personal” when I note you have 3 r5 4 stars in your profile with Doctor Voodoo as your avatar. I think people should know where you’re coming from. That’s your frame of reference.
I don’t know why that upsets you. Your opinion on 5 stars should be noted in the context of the game you play. Nothing to be ashamed by. It’s a game. You don’t have 5 star heroes in your profile. As an adult I think you could accept that.