A START to appeasing the community regarding banquet

JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★
So, as paragon and valiant players were the only ones who had access to a majority of the banquet tickets (showcase, etc.), or were the only ones with rosters to be able to finish those higher level pieces of content to get the tickets how would it not make sense to make the token purchases crystals worth 400 points as well. I opened 12 of those + over 6k units worth and didn’t even make it to the 2x tier 6 class cat selector. This would have at least provided a little separation since really on valiant and paragon had those tickets available to them and if you were lower progression you would have had to spend money. Another point, people spent money on the bundles because they’re a 1 to 1 trade in for 10 tickets - token - crystal. I think this could be just the tip of the iceberg in trying to please the community. This post isn’t for the whales as most of them already have the points but for the ftp or light spenders who grinded out the tickets. This whole event is just a big mess because how would they now justify that with all this money spent and people would have spent less because they would have started higher up in milestones
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Comments

  • JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★
    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
  • JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★

    There's no pleasing the community. If they didn't change those calculations from the beginning, they won't do it 4 days before the end.

    I agree with you, which is why I said I’m not sure at this point how they would do so since people were planning on that number of points. I guess the only fix for this would be to compensate 4x the amount of crystals (so 48) purchased with tokens, but then that actually might be game breaking.
  • JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★

    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
    EVEN HAD A DANG SCREENSHOT OF ME ASKING IN THE POST lol. I was actually advocating that this would have been at least a little separation between valiant and paragon from TB since WE were able to get all those tickets
  • JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★

    So, as paragon and valiant players were the only ones who had access to a majority of the banquet tickets (showcase, etc.), or were the only ones with rosters to be able to finish those higher level pieces of content to get the tickets how would it not make sense to make the token purchases crystals worth 400 points as well. I opened 12 of those + over 6k units worth and didn’t even make it to the 2x tier 6 class cat selector. This would have at least provided a little separation since really on valiant and paragon had those tickets available to them and if you were lower progression you would have had to spend money. Another point, people spent money on the bundles because they’re a 1 to 1 trade in for 10 tickets - token - crystal. I think this could be just the tip of the iceberg in trying to please the community. This post isn’t for the whales as most of them already have the points but for the ftp or light spenders who grinded out the tickets. This whole event is just a big mess because how would they now justify that with all this money spent and people would have spent less because they would have started higher up in milestones

    The SBC tokens were a bonus. The main prize was 7* sinister, 7* sigs, and a 1-2 gem. Those items were well worth. the grind.
    I can agree there. The main problem doesn’t lie in the bundles though, it lies in the value of the tokens as people bought tokens by themselves with tickets that could be bought with money. The structuring of the trade in system is the problem.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,077 ★★★★

    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
    Literally anyone could have gotten 7* sinister. It wasn’t progression locked.
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 5,324 ★★★★★
    edited December 2024
    Shamir51 said:

    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
    Literally anyone could have gotten 7* sinister. It wasn’t progression locked.
    You couldn't if you were f2p and cav for example but if you spent you could
  • JackTheSnackJackTheSnack Member Posts: 992 ★★★
    Shamir51 said:

    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
    Literally anyone could have gotten 7* sinister. It wasn’t progression locked.
    Oh? I thought thronebreaker couldn’t get it. Well, if all of that doesn’t prove it to these guys I literally had a thread asking who should be my second r3 for valiant the other day and I’ve already completed act 8 lol
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,077 ★★★★

    Shamir51 said:

    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    lol I’m valiant. Hence I’m advocating for paragon and valiant players and did the showcase and all the other content to get all 129 tickets. I was literally in another thread asking if I should r3 7 STAR SINISTER…that I could only get if I was paragon or valiant
    Literally anyone could have gotten 7* sinister. It wasn’t progression locked.
    You couldn't if you were f2p and cav for example but if you spent you could

    Hence why I said literally anyone. It was there for anyone playing the game to get that 7* sinister. Just because it was locked behind a paywall if you couldn’t do the content, doesn’t mean it wasn’t attainable.
  • JESUSCHRISTJESUSCHRIST Member Posts: 220 ★★
    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,559 ★★★★★

    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing

    Not the point of a gift but I agree.

    I think I’m over the Banquet as a concept. Gifting was superior in execution and spirit of the season. Too bad some turds had to enter the punch bowl and ruin it.

    If rewards are structured to be guaranteed next year as well I’d love to see the forced opening of disappointing crystals to be removed from the event.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,458 ★★★★★

    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing

    There has been. When we got a 6* generic AG, people loved it. There's been many times where the Xmas gift surpassed expectations.

    But how do you know they changed the Xmas gift?
  • JESUSCHRISTJESUSCHRIST Member Posts: 220 ★★

    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing

    There has been. When we got a 6* generic AG, people loved it. There's been many times where the Xmas gift surpassed expectations.

    But how do you know they changed the Xmas gift?
    I wouldn't say for sure but in previous years there were also complaints and it wasn't verging on rioting and the holiday gift turned out to be normal
    This year, the complaints literally went through the roof, every major youtuber complained about it, all the players were out with pitch forks and the holiday gift turned out to be way beyond my expectations
    Somehow I see a link
    You wouldn't expect a titan nexus normally would you?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,953 Guardian
    BigBlueOx said:

    If rewards are structured to be guaranteed next year as well I’d love to see the forced opening of disappointing crystals to be removed from the event.

    That's kind of like asking for the arena to remove all the grindy matches and just hand players the rewards directly.

    And when I say kind of, I mean in the sense that it is exactly like that. Buying and opening those crystals *is* the grind to get the milestone rewards. It is the spending version of arena grinding in a very literal sense.
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,559 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    If rewards are structured to be guaranteed next year as well I’d love to see the forced opening of disappointing crystals to be removed from the event.

    That's kind of like asking for the arena to remove all the grindy matches and just hand players the rewards directly.

    And when I say kind of, I mean in the sense that it is exactly like that. Buying and opening those crystals *is* the grind to get the milestone rewards. It is the spending version of arena grinding in a very literal sense.
    Since the replacement of gifting with the banquet it’s been a much more hollow event, and the SBCs are the epitome of it.

    And this year there was a distinct pivot on the reward balance from the crystals themselves to guaranteed rewards and making the realm event look good. Which is probably better for most people but it sucked all anticipation and joy out of the act of opening crystals.

    I at least find arena relaxing and sometimes enjoyable. This was neither of those things. I’d be happy to see it go away… or if it’s kept I’d love to see them bring gifting back instead of this celebration of gluttony.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,953 Guardian

    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing

    For reference, the top progression holiday gift from previous years:

    2023: Valiant - 7* Crystal, Abyss Nexus crystal
    2022: Paragon: Abyss Nexus Crystal, 50 6* sig stone crystals
    2021: Thronebreaker: 6* Nexus, 20 6* sig stone crystals
    2020: Thronebreaker: 6* R1->R2 rank up gem crystal, 20 6* sig stone crystals, 10% T5CC crystal
    2019: Cavalier: 5* AG

    My recollection is the 2019 one and the 2022 one was considered really good, and last years one was considered pretty good. The 2020 one was considered okay. There was some interesting controversy over the 2021 gift as Cavs got a 6* R1->R2 gem which some argued was actually better value than the Thronebreaker one, because of the guaranteed value in the rank up gem (back when those catalysts were pretty hard to get) compared to the Nexus crystal.

    I am reasonably certain Kabam did not alter the holiday gift due to player unrest. Most of the staff was out of the office by then, and mass mail outs like the Holiday gift require special handling. There would be a huge risk associated with making a last minute change to that during a period where there would be few resources available to fix it if something went wrong with those changes.
  • TotemCorruptionTotemCorruption Member Posts: 174
    FishSkin said:

    The majority of the community are pleased - hence the current and ever increasing realm score.

    You can't ever please everyone, but by gosh those who aren't will make their best efforts to be heard - whilst those who are happy, generally carry on in silence.

    This is a good post and I agree.
    I'll just add that there is definitely a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" dynamic going on, and Kabam doesn't hesitate obliging to this dynamic, so you get even more people piling on just to trigger some of that extra grease. Not that I'm complaining, I've enjoyed the extra grease myself. Thanks whiners!
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,953 Guardian
    BigBlueOx said:

    And this year there was a distinct pivot on the reward balance from the crystals themselves to guaranteed rewards and making the realm event look good. Which is probably better for most people but it sucked all anticipation and joy out of the act of opening crystals.

    I don't disagree. I'm simply stating the reality that there are practical limits to how much that can likely change. Especially given the fact that however many complaints that are out there, the playerbase itself seems to be undeterred from participating in the event either way.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 6,008 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    These damn TBs are now hiding behind the mask of "lower progression" to ask for more rewards

    I bet u they are Cavs hiding behind the fake TB title
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,458 ★★★★★

    The holiday gift wouldn't been so spicy had it not been so many complaints about SBC
    It's sorta a compensation in a way
    I don't remember any holiday gift been that great in previous 9 years of playing

    There has been. When we got a 6* generic AG, people loved it. There's been many times where the Xmas gift surpassed expectations.

    But how do you know they changed the Xmas gift?
    I wouldn't say for sure but in previous years there were also complaints and it wasn't verging on rioting and the holiday gift turned out to be normal
    This year, the complaints literally went through the roof, every major youtuber complained about it, all the players were out with pitch forks and the holiday gift turned out to be way beyond my expectations
    Somehow I see a link
    You wouldn't expect a titan nexus normally would you?
    My expectation isn't anything. It's a gift. It's something they are doing because they want you. Is this how you are during actual Christmas? Do you expect people to give you extravagant gifts because you require it? I don't care what Kabam gives us as a holiday/Christmas present. They aren't required to do it and they especially aren't required to make it extra great because this community whines and complains about how they can't R4 25 champs from 4 SBC's.

    While the event could have done some things different and I agree with much of what Crashed said, most of the complaining is self inflicted. Kabam didn't need to "make up for it" with a better x-mas gift and certainly doesn't need to give compensation.
  • BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Member Posts: 2,559 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    And this year there was a distinct pivot on the reward balance from the crystals themselves to guaranteed rewards and making the realm event look good. Which is probably better for most people but it sucked all anticipation and joy out of the act of opening crystals.

    I don't disagree. I'm simply stating the reality that there are practical limits to how much that can likely change. Especially given the fact that however many complaints that are out there, the playerbase itself seems to be undeterred from participating in the event either way.
    No argument here. It does seem that as long as there’s a paltry chance and the realm event minimums strongly encouraging participation… the data will show the event being successful in the face of the loud negative feedback loops about the crystals and how it feels to open them.

    The one thing to be optimistic about is the current community team does seem much more thoughtful and open to feedback so maybe there will be more attempts at positive change
  • JESUSCHRISTJESUSCHRIST Member Posts: 220 ★★
    My objective this year is to start buying Netmarble shares and get a board seat one day so I can march to Kabam HQ in Canada and have lunch with Kabam CEO and tell him to improve on the banquet crystals in future
    It's really damn awful
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,806 ★★★★

    So, as paragon and valiant players were the only ones who had access to a majority of the banquet tickets (showcase, etc.), or were the only ones with rosters to be able to finish those higher level pieces of content to get the tickets how would it not make sense to make the token purchases crystals worth 400 points as well. I opened 12 of those + over 6k units worth and didn’t even make it to the 2x tier 6 class cat selector. This would have at least provided a little separation since really on valiant and paragon had those tickets available to them and if you were lower progression you would have had to spend money. Another point, people spent money on the bundles because they’re a 1 to 1 trade in for 10 tickets - token - crystal. I think this could be just the tip of the iceberg in trying to please the community. This post isn’t for the whales as most of them already have the points but for the ftp or light spenders who grinded out the tickets. This whole event is just a big mess because how would they now justify that with all this money spent and people would have spent less because they would have started higher up in milestones

    The SBC tokens were a bonus. The main prize was 7* sinister, 7* sigs, and a 1-2 gem. Those items were well worth. the grind.
    I can agree there. The main problem doesn’t lie in the bundles though, it lies in the value of the tokens as people bought tokens by themselves with tickets that could be bought with money. The structuring of the trade in system is the problem.
    No one bought tokens by themselves
  • monkeysmonkeys Member Posts: 15

    There's no pleasing the community. If they didn't change those calculations from the beginning, they won't do it 4 days before the end.

    That's just not true there aren't ways to please the community.... case in point the Christmas gift referenced above. Now is it possible to please everyone at the same time, no it isn't.

    There are many different things kabam could have done to make the banquet a better experience for most people. It's tiring for them to hide behind this idea of not being able to please people to double down on bad execution of ideas.
  • JESUSCHRISTJESUSCHRIST Member Posts: 220 ★★
    3,000 mysterium for 1 banquet ticket
    30,000 mysterium for 10 banquet tickets for 1 banquet crystal token for 1 SBC which doesn't give you anything much unless you strike the rare prize (I got a 7* nexus and that's it and I got 27k banquet points by now)
    30,000 mysterium can buy more stuff in store
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,953 Guardian
    BigBlueOx said:

    DNA3000 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    And this year there was a distinct pivot on the reward balance from the crystals themselves to guaranteed rewards and making the realm event look good. Which is probably better for most people but it sucked all anticipation and joy out of the act of opening crystals.

    I don't disagree. I'm simply stating the reality that there are practical limits to how much that can likely change. Especially given the fact that however many complaints that are out there, the playerbase itself seems to be undeterred from participating in the event either way.
    No argument here. It does seem that as long as there’s a paltry chance and the realm event minimums strongly encouraging participation… the data will show the event being successful in the face of the loud negative feedback loops about the crystals and how it feels to open them.

    The one thing to be optimistic about is the current community team does seem much more thoughtful and open to feedback so maybe there will be more attempts at positive change
    Well, the crystal value change itself was a response to complaints about the overall banquet rewards being too heavily dependent on RNG. So if anything, the crystals themselves should make people optimistic that the devs are open to changing things. They just aren’t always going to change them in ways everyone is ultimately going to like.

    As I’ve been saying for a long time now, you can always get the devs to look, you can sometimes get the devs to act, but you can never control what the outcome will be when they do. They aren’t going to just do what you want. They will act in accordance with their own rules and perspectives to react to the feedback, not just blindly follow it.

    They heard players wanted less randomness. But players assumed the devs would just put guaranteed good rewards in the crystals. But that would be problematic, because the banquet is a spending event and spenders can buy unlimited amounts of crystals. if the crystals have guaranteed good value, that would place too much stuff into the game economy concentrated into too few hands. So they shifted that value to the milestones, because the milestones can only be earned once no matter how much you spend. That seemed to be a reasonable compromise to them, and it does to me as well. It does make the crystals a whole lot boring for most, but that’s the price to pay to get what the players were asking for - more guaranteed rewards - without giving too much stuff to the largest spenders.

    We can ask them to try to square that circle again, but it is impossible to a) make the crystals have good value, b) make that value guaranteed, and c) allow players to buy an unlimited number of them. At least one has to go, and in a spending event it isn’t going to be (c). It will have to be less about what the crystals are, and more about what they are perceived to be. And that’s never going to be a sure thing.
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