Can someone help me here with my math ???

LatamayoLatamayo Member Posts: 34 ★
in General Discussion
So what's going on here am I thinking crazy or are these numbers crazy and not anywhere near correct???

Comments

  • LatamayoLatamayo Member Posts: 34 ★
    Squidopus said:

    Stats have diminishing returns. It’s not a linear scale (i.e. you do not get 10% crit rating for every 200 raw stat gains). As an example:
    Raw stat: actual percentage
    500: 20%
    1000: 33%
    2000: 50%
    …f
    8000: 80%

    So if this is the case why have numbers or details explaining partially what the numbers are even there for. If it doesn't follow math or logic or any type of common principles we could just be all over the place and it could be just random nonsense for example
    2637: 3%
    346: 15%
    876539:16%
    42: 20%
    So I don't know about you but this sure doesn't seem to be reasonable or understandable at all
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 821 ★★★★
    Latamayo said:

    Squidopus said:

    Stats have diminishing returns. It’s not a linear scale (i.e. you do not get 10% crit rating for every 200 raw stat gains). As an example:
    Raw stat: actual percentage
    500: 20%
    1000: 33%
    2000: 50%
    …f
    8000: 80%

    So if this is the case why have numbers or details explaining partially what the numbers are even there for. If it doesn't follow math or logic or any type of common principles we could just be all over the place and it could be just random nonsense for example
    2637: 3%
    346: 15%
    876539:16%
    42: 20%
    So I don't know about you but this sure doesn't seem to be reasonable or understandable at all
    Because it does follow math and logic. The conversion is just closer to exponential rather than linear. Nothing in your screenshot is lying to you.

    You have a base block proficiency of 3670, which translates to 64.7% reduced damage while blocking. The stat focus adds 1093 block proficiency. Your new stat total is now 4763, which translates to 70.4%, a 5.7% increase. This is all correct information that has been conveyed to you.
  • FeuerschwerFeuerschwer Member Posts: 454 ★★★
    It’s a diminishing returns scale: increasing the flat stat always does increase the percentage, but the higher the stat is the less increase you get from the next point. For example, and not using the exact calculations, say 1000 armor translates to 50% damage reduction. That causes problems once you scale up to 100%, because you’d never take damage. so the way it scales can never hit 100%. Instead the first 1000 gets you to 50%, then adding another 1000 only pushes you to 75%, then the next 1000 increases to 85%… you always benefit from increased armor but the increase slows down the higher the rating is.
  • LatamayoLatamayo Member Posts: 34 ★
    Squidopus said:

    Latamayo said:

    Squidopus said:

    Stats have diminishing returns. It’s not a linear scale (i.e. you do not get 10% crit rating for every 200 raw stat gains). As an example:
    Raw stat: actual percentage
    500: 20%
    1000: 33%
    2000: 50%
    …f
    8000: 80%

    So if this is the case why have numbers or details explaining partially what the numbers are even there for. If it doesn't follow math or logic or any type of common principles we could just be all over the place and it could be just random nonsense for example
    2637: 3%
    346: 15%
    876539:16%
    42: 20%
    So I don't know about you but this sure doesn't seem to be reasonable or understandable at all
    Because it does follow math and logic. The conversion is just closer to exponential rather than linear. Nothing in your screenshot is lying to you.

    You have a base block proficiency of 3670, which translates to 64.7% reduced damage while blocking. The stat focus adds 1093 block proficiency. Your new stat total is now 4763, which translates to 70.4%, a 5.7% increase. This is all correct information that has been conveyed to you.
    Hahaha . Bro you are so wrong that math is nowhere near correct! If 5.7% = 1,093
    That would mean 64.7% = 12,406 . I really hope you can comprehend this !
  • LatamayoLatamayo Member Posts: 34 ★
    Feuerschwer said:

    It’s a diminishing returns scale: increasing the flat stat always does increase the percentage, but the higher the stat is the less increase you get from the next point. For example, and not using the exact calculations, say 1000 armor translates to 50% damage reduction. That causes problems once you scale up to 100%, because you’d never take damage. so the way it scales can never hit 100%. Instead the first 1000 gets you to 50%, then adding another 1000 only pushes you to 75%, then the next 1000 increases to 85%… you always benefit from increased armor but the increase slows down the higher the rating is.

    In this theory that is completely idiotic though Why have numbers and math which have been scientifically proven and can only be determined and solved in one correct answer, to go in throw that principal away and come up with your own formulas that do not follow numbers and math at all. That is ignorant to use math that doesn't abide by math. Which is also then becoming a false untrue claim or statement. When you could just be honest and simply say an increase with no numbers or math at all that are just going to be incorrect!
  • Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★★★
    edited March 1
    When base stats are modified in MCOC (by a champ ability, a node, etc) it’s almost always a curve (non-linear) instead of a straight increase like the kind of math you are referencing (linear).

    I can’t think of a champ example off the top of my head, but for certain champs you will see in their description something like “when X happens, attack increases by Y amount.” Sometimes those numbers seem huge — you might have a base attack of 4000 that gets increased by 2x or 3x or 5x. But when the fight is happening and you get the increase, it’s not like your champ starts hitting 3x harder with 3x bigger numbers. Yeah, there is a noticeable increase but it’s not an insane change. That’s diminishing returns in action.

    *not a mathematician, I’m sure others can do a better job explaining
  • TotemCorruptionTotemCorruption Member Posts: 1,531 ★★★★
    Latamayo said:

    Feuerschwer said:

    It’s a diminishing returns scale: increasing the flat stat always does increase the percentage, but the higher the stat is the less increase you get from the next point. For example, and not using the exact calculations, say 1000 armor translates to 50% damage reduction. That causes problems once you scale up to 100%, because you’d never take damage. so the way it scales can never hit 100%. Instead the first 1000 gets you to 50%, then adding another 1000 only pushes you to 75%, then the next 1000 increases to 85%… you always benefit from increased armor but the increase slows down the higher the rating is.

    In this theory that is completely idiotic though Why have numbers and math which have been scientifically proven and can only be determined and solved in one correct answer, to go in throw that principal away and come up with your own formulas that do not follow numbers and math at all. That is ignorant to use math that doesn't abide by math. Which is also then becoming a false untrue claim or statement. When you could just be honest and simply say an increase with no numbers or math at all that are just going to be incorrect!
    It does abide by math, it's just that the formula isn't presented, so it's not possible to predict how much % increases those additional raw points will add to an ability.
    So yes, you're correct that without the hidden formula, it's not really math because we're just operating blindly and speculatively about the precise % increases.
  • TotemCorruptionTotemCorruption Member Posts: 1,531 ★★★★
    Herbal_Taxman said:

    When base stats are modified in MCOC (by a champ ability, a node, etc) it’s almost always a curve (non-linear) instead of a straight increase like the kind of math you are referencing (linear).

    I can’t think of a champ example off the top of my head, but for certain champs you will see in their description something like “when X happens, attack increases by Y amount.” Sometimes those numbers seem huge — you might have a base attack of 4000 that gets increased by 2x or 3x or 5x. But when the fight is happening and you get the increase, it’s not like your champ starts hitting 3x harder with 3x bigger numbers. Yeah, there is a noticeable increase but it’s not an insane change. That’s diminishing returns in action.

    *not a mathematician, I’m sure others can do a better job explaining

    Yeah this is correct. DLL (MCOC designer) talks about some of the math stuff in this video if anyone is interested:

    https://youtu.be/ga-SliROcps
  • ViperOfChampionViperOfChampion Member Posts: 322 ★★
    edited March 1
    TotemCorruption said:

    Herbal_Taxman said:

    When base stats are modified in MCOC (by a champ ability, a node, etc) it’s almost always a curve (non-linear) instead of a straight increase like the kind of math you are referencing (linear).

    I can’t think of a champ example off the top of my head, but for certain champs you will see in their description something like “when X happens, attack increases by Y amount.” Sometimes those numbers seem huge — you might have a base attack of 4000 that gets increased by 2x or 3x or 5x. But when the fight is happening and you get the increase, it’s not like your champ starts hitting 3x harder with 3x bigger numbers. Yeah, there is a noticeable increase but it’s not an insane change. That’s diminishing returns in action.

    *not a mathematician, I’m sure others can do a better job explaining

    Yeah this is correct. DLL (MCOC designer) talks about some of the math stuff in this video if anyone is interested:

    https://youtu.be/ga-SliROcps
    was just about to say that :) I am a certified DLL glazer just serpent pisses me off, otherwise DLL is the GOAT
  • RiderofHellRiderofHell Member Posts: 4,742 ★★★★★
    I came here to read the posts not learn about math!. 🤣
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 20,438 Guardian
    Latamayo said:

    Feuerschwer said:

    It’s a diminishing returns scale: increasing the flat stat always does increase the percentage, but the higher the stat is the less increase you get from the next point. For example, and not using the exact calculations, say 1000 armor translates to 50% damage reduction. That causes problems once you scale up to 100%, because you’d never take damage. so the way it scales can never hit 100%. Instead the first 1000 gets you to 50%, then adding another 1000 only pushes you to 75%, then the next 1000 increases to 85%… you always benefit from increased armor but the increase slows down the higher the rating is.

    In this theory that is completely idiotic though Why have numbers and math which have been scientifically proven and can only be determined and solved in one correct answer, to go in throw that principal away and come up with your own formulas that do not follow numbers and math at all. That is ignorant to use math that doesn't abide by math. Which is also then becoming a false untrue claim or statement. When you could just be honest and simply say an increase with no numbers or math at all that are just going to be incorrect!
    I’m going to ignore the gibberish about “scientifically proven math” except to say please permanently remove that from your vocabulary. Anyone who knows anything about anything will assume you have no idea what you’re talking about, and they would be right. There’s no such thing as “scientifically proven math” in this context. That’s a borderline oxymoron.

    There’s an actual diminishing returns formula: StatValue = Stat / (Stat + 5 x CR + 1500), where CR is the challenge rating of the opponent (not the champion, what they are fighting at the moment). It’s crude, I would have done something different, but it encapsulates the basic idea that stats affected by DR have a dynamic range of 0.0 through 1.0 (sometimes described as zero to one hundred percent) and the incremental effect of increasing the stat diminishes as the stat approaches 1.0.

    There’s a number of reasons for doing this, it makes logical sense for stats whose effects are expressed as percentages or chance, and it roughly encapsulates the proportional effect if stats that have inverse beneficial effects. In fact if you calculate survivability in terms of flat stat resistances the effect of the DR formula results in a roughly linear survivability curve. This is something done deliberately in other games.
  • JESUSCHRISTJESUSCHRIST Member Posts: 957 ★★★
    It's the same with signature ability

    Level 200 and level 1 are not 200 times difference between them
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,846 ★★★★
    Hah. Dude forgot to carry the 1.
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