Been sleeping on it all night. And I think I agree with many in this post. Probably going to cancel my subscription after this month. I'll suffer through arena without express mode. Been a sigil subscriber since day 1. The consistent ability to trade in for potions and purchase boosts for gold every week WAS the highlight long before arena express mode came in.
Yeah, a 7* was nice every 6 months, but that's not the highlight, that's a long term subscription bonus. I wouldn't pay 60 bucks for a 7*. If the extra boosts and pot trade ins are gone, I don't see enough value in the sigil, yes there is still some, but not worth the money for me.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
Also agree with how ridiculous some of the purchases are. 700 sigil credits for 1 Titan crystal just seems way too steep.
I think most people are looking at the price of the Titan and Nexus in terms of how much they think they are supposed to be able to buy in a year or how frequently they should be able to buy them relative to how much would be often enough for them to think of it as a regular benefit. But to me the question is whether the price is fair, because the intent of the Sigil is not to make it a mandatory purchase. The benefits within are supposed to be roughly what the players actually pay for, plus a bit more, such that its a nice to have, but players don’t start seeing it as a necessary pay to play feature.
I look at the Sigil credit value this way. Suppose I look at only the two currencies from the Sigil subscription: the units and the Sigil credits. And limit this to only a discussion of the value in the in-game App Store subscription, not the web store (the web store has more value). We get 300 units plus 60 Sigil credits per cycle (30 days) plus an additional 20 units per week. In a year, that is about 300-x12 + 20x52 = 4640 units and about 720 credits. If I prorate the cost for a year of Sigil that’s about $122 USD ($10 x 12 plus a bit more for the last five days). If I focus my Sigil credits on Titans, that’s basically one Titan. So for a year’s subscription of $122 USD, I am getting 4640 units and a Titan. Is that worth it?
At 3100 units per $100 USD I would expect to get 3782 units for $122 USD. So the units themselves are already more value than normal for the sub. 4640 units and a Titan is thus very good value for $122 USD. If it was a bundle, it would be above average value. If the only two benefits in the Sigil were the units and the Sigil credits and there was literally only one trade in the store, the Titan crystal, it would *still* be worth buying relative to the normal costs of those things. Given that, it is hard to say the price of the Titan is too high.
I’ve seen many comments recently about the Sigil of the form “well, its fine, but the devs *could* have done a lot more, so they *should* have done a lot more.” I’ve heard the store update called “lazy” in reference to this. But our economy designers have consistently taken the position that the goal for MCOC monetization is to sell as little as possible, not as much as possible, to minimize the spending gap in the game. Some players would say the spending gap is so big it doesn’t matter anymore, but I don’t see it that way and the devs certainly don’t see it that way. Wide spending gaps are an existential threat to games like MCOC: push that too far and you enter a death spiral of being unable to attract new players to your game while driving too many way. It is probably the single biggest worry about the long term future of the game within the studio, and thus it is something they have to take way more seriously than players who think eh, whatever.
Players can switch games much faster than developers can switch jobs when games fail.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
Also agree with how ridiculous some of the purchases are. 700 sigil credits for 1 Titan crystal just seems way too steep.
I think most people are looking at the price of the Titan and Nexus in terms of how much they think they are supposed to be able to buy in a year or how frequently they should be able to buy them relative to how much would be often enough for them to think of it as a regular benefit. But to me the question is whether the price is fair, because the intent of the Sigil is not to make it a mandatory purchase. The benefits within are supposed to be roughly what the players actually pay for, plus a bit more, such that its a nice to have, but players don’t start seeing it as a necessary pay to play feature.
I look at the Sigil credit value this way. Suppose I look at only the two currencies from the Sigil subscription: the units and the Sigil credits. And limit this to only a discussion of the value in the in-game App Store subscription, not the web store (the web store has more value). We get 300 units plus 60 Sigil credits per cycle (30 days) plus an additional 20 units per week. In a year, that is about 300-x12 + 20x52 = 4640 units and about 720 credits. If I prorate the cost for a year of Sigil that’s about $122 USD ($10 x 12 plus a bit more for the last five days). If I focus my Sigil credits on Titans, that’s basically one Titan. So for a year’s subscription of $122 USD, I am getting 4640 units and a Titan. Is that worth it?
At 3100 units per $100 USD I would expect to get 3782 units for $122 USD. So the units themselves are already more value than normal for the sub. 4640 units and a Titan is thus very good value for $122 USD. If it was a bundle, it would be above average value. If the only two benefits in the Sigil were the units and the Sigil credits and there was literally only one trade in the store, the Titan crystal, it would *still* be worth buying relative to the normal costs of those things. Given that, it is hard to say the price of the Titan is too high.
I’ve seen many comments recently about the Sigil of the form “well, its fine, but the devs *could* have done a lot more, so they *should* have done a lot more.” I’ve heard the store update called “lazy” in reference to this. But our economy designers have consistently taken the position that the goal for MCOC monetization is to sell as little as possible, not as much as possible, to minimize the spending gap in the game. Some players would say the spending gap is so big it doesn’t matter anymore, but I don’t see it that way and the devs certainly don’t see it that way. Wide spending gaps are an existential threat to games like MCOC: push that too far and you enter a death spiral of being unable to attract new players to your game while driving too many way. It is probably the single biggest worry about the long term future of the game within the studio, and thus it is something they have to take way more seriously than players who think eh, whatever.
Players can switch games much faster than developers can switch jobs when games fail.
I appreciate the calculations but remember to take into account that this game is also played by many people who cannot afford to spend $122 a year on it. And even with those calculations, I would rather spend the $100 on black friday than on the sigil.
And for arguments sake, if they are going to charge 700 sigil credits for a Titan, they could have at least made it a nexus.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
I wasn't arguing against his suggestion. I was offering an explanation as to why I thought they went the direction they did. There are a few things that have been changed that I think is curious, and I have no objections to the current prices of Tokens or Shards, but I also said getting rid of the Shard exchange was somewhat negative. So I'm in agreement for the most part. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between personal expectation and what the goal is, and I also made the point that for $10 a month, I don't expect a mind-blowing value.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is not bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Trying to argue my points with speculations is mental gymnastics. If it were facts would be a different story...
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Trying to argue my points with speculations is mental gymnastics. If it were facts would be a different story...
I'd like to know who (besides DNA) is qualified to use facts besides Kabam. This is a Forum, for Players to discuss the game. None of us are operating on the facts you're talking about.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Trying to argue my points with speculations is mental gymnastics. If it were facts would be a different story...
I'd like to know who (besides DNA) is qualified to use facts besides Kabam. This is a Forum, for Players to discuss the game. None of us are operating on the facts you're talking about.
I didn't say you weren't qualified, good old Groundedwisdom playing the victim. If you don't want the mental gymnastics don't bring out your own speculations. That's is exactly what your Own speculations are, your own mental gymnastics.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Trying to argue my points with speculations is mental gymnastics. If it were facts would be a different story...
I'd like to know who (besides DNA) is qualified to use facts besides Kabam. This is a Forum, for Players to discuss the game. None of us are operating on the facts you're talking about.
I didn't say you weren't qualified, good old Groundedwisdom playing the victim. If you don't want the mental gymnastics don't bring out your own speculations. That's is exactly what your Own speculations are, your own mental gymnastics.
No one is playing a victim. The mental gymnastics are your attempt to create an argument over the wording I use. Keep it at an adult level.
I wrote earlier on the thread, so I'll jump in... I agree with @DNA3000 last points...
Personally... - I'm fine with the prices of the crystals, 7*, Titans, etc... it's an extension of what was there in the past... I see it as same old system with the credits, new options. Choose how long you want to save up for... That's it, that's all... - I'm fine about the trade-in stuff as well, those are choices people make as well. I'm not going to judge if it's too much or too little... If the perceived value is there for you, make the move, if not, don't... it's a choice you can make.
To me, it's about the overall perceived value on a monthly basis. If you're not spending credits to accumulate them instead, you are losing out over the previous system. It's nice having some agency and fun of being able to get some things every week and wait for others. The new system with the credits takes away a lot of that flexibility.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
if you think a Titan crystal every 10 months is incentivizing you and I are playing a completely different game. What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active? Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The Sigil Credits are cumulative as well. You're looking at it from the perspective of what you personally want out of it, and not all of what they're offering. I'm talking about what I suspect their intentions are.
And you are pretending you are in my shoes when you are not?... You said the Titan Crystal was for Valiant. Now telling people that the new Sigil has a Valiant perk on a 10 month Titan crystal, in which at least 3 champion pools will roll over doesn't seem like something made for Valiants? The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
You're distorting what I said. I said the previous Sigil had less that appealed to Valiants. Which had nothing to do with what I'm saying here, and there is still more that comes with it if we're being technical. I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards. If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory. If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
So you are moving your post? You replied to me to a post, you don't get to take the conversation where you want and then tell me I am distorting it lol. It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it. Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
I'm not responsible for you, your choices, or the choices of anyone else. Neither is Kabam. Obviously they want to appeal to as many people as they can, but my speculation on their decisions has nothing to do with making it more appealing for anyone. It's a theoretical discussion to try to make sense of the changes. That's about it bud.
You are not reponsible on trying to convice me that it has something for Valiants either but here you are. Using "speculation" to try to explain why this sigil is pretty bad. Not data, not examples, speculation.
Hence the indication that it's my speculation. I'm not really interested in doing mental gymnastics.
Trying to argue my points with speculations is mental gymnastics. If it were facts would be a different story...
I'd like to know who (besides DNA) is qualified to use facts besides Kabam. This is a Forum, for Players to discuss the game. None of us are operating on the facts you're talking about.
I didn't say you weren't qualified, good old Groundedwisdom playing the victim. If you don't want the mental gymnastics don't bring out your own speculations. That's is exactly what your Own speculations are, your own mental gymnastics.
No one is playing a victim. The mental gymnastics are your attempt to create an argument over the wording I use. Keep it at an adult level.
The argument is that I presented a better option that would keep people engaged and keep on buying the sigil in a monthly bases and all you got to try to discredit my option is speculations. Mental gymnastics see? Keep it at adult level, funny comming from you. Didn't you try to ridicule my points by asking if I wanted a Titan Crystal per month?...
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
I wasn't arguing against his suggestion. I was offering an explanation as to why I thought they went the direction they did. There are a few things that have been changed that I think is curious, and I have no objections to the current prices of Tokens or Shards, but I also said getting rid of the Shard exchange was somewhat negative. So I'm in agreement for the most part. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between personal expectation and what the goal is, and I also made the point that for $10 a month, I don't expect a mind-blowing value.
I can't say the designer wasn't thinking in terms of lock in when they designed those trades: I haven't discussed it with whomever did the design and no basis upon which to speculate, but I'm still going to have to side with Popcorn that this is not something that's likely to work. You can try to force people to subscribe continuously for a year to get things of value, but I believe that is likely to backfire by reducing the perceived value of the subscription. You can't lock people in if they don't subscribe in the first place. I don't see the net incentivizing power of that design choice myself.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
I wasn't arguing against his suggestion. I was offering an explanation as to why I thought they went the direction they did. There are a few things that have been changed that I think is curious, and I have no objections to the current prices of Tokens or Shards, but I also said getting rid of the Shard exchange was somewhat negative. So I'm in agreement for the most part. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between personal expectation and what the goal is, and I also made the point that for $10 a month, I don't expect a mind-blowing value.
I can't say the designer wasn't thinking in terms of lock in when they designed those trades: I haven't discussed it with whomever did the design and no basis upon which to speculate, but I'm still going to have to side with Popcorn that this is not something that's likely to work. You can try to force people to subscribe continuously for a year to get things of value, but I believe that is likely to backfire by reducing the perceived value of the subscription. You can't lock people in if they don't subscribe in the first place. I don't see the net incentivizing power of that design choice myself.
Thank You!... My initial thought might be a bit too much on the player side I do believe there is room for compromise; but expecting players to subscribe for 10 months to get a Titan crystals is a bit ridiculous. Yes I understand it has more perks like units, revives and arena express, 10 months though thats almost 3 Titan Pool roll overs.
Bring back the old sigil for what I used it for is now gone. What a disappointment. Such a missed opportunity. Nothing in here is a great value, this should just be available to everyone. Everything is basically and even trade up you not getting great value. I used to be able to trade my 5* shards for 6* to buy feature 6* crystals. now all I can go is get a basic 6* from them which has no value to me. This is a huge disappointment. Everything you buy with your sigil bucks is way overpriced and who want to spend this currency on potions...seems like a waste.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
I wasn't arguing against his suggestion. I was offering an explanation as to why I thought they went the direction they did. There are a few things that have been changed that I think is curious, and I have no objections to the current prices of Tokens or Shards, but I also said getting rid of the Shard exchange was somewhat negative. So I'm in agreement for the most part. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between personal expectation and what the goal is, and I also made the point that for $10 a month, I don't expect a mind-blowing value.
I can't say the designer wasn't thinking in terms of lock in when they designed those trades: I haven't discussed it with whomever did the design and no basis upon which to speculate, but I'm still going to have to side with Popcorn that this is not something that's likely to work. You can try to force people to subscribe continuously for a year to get things of value, but I believe that is likely to backfire by reducing the perceived value of the subscription. You can't lock people in if they don't subscribe in the first place. I don't see the net incentivizing power of that design choice myself.
Well of course, it's a long time to wait for a payout, with 60 Credits upfront each month, and little to motivate between. I've felt lackluster myself, afrer the T4A and picking up the 7* SW I was ready for pre-revision. I'm just trying to make sense of it. I haven't begun to form my suggestions or thoughts on what's missing. I would agree with your point of view overall on the lack of drive. Even with the Test of the Valiant, that was something to look forward to each week. Now it's just a deposit each month and a waiting game.
Am I missing something here? Kabam decided to make a monthly recurring payment subscription feature that is better to buy intermittently? Let me explain, the only way to squeeze the most juice out of this new Sigil is if you have gathered everything to trade in the Black ISO store and manage to get the items within their reset timers. For example if you are at 50k 6* shards that trade for 1 7* crystal at 150k shards is worthless unless you manage to get 100k more within the month. And that goes for every single item that has better value in trade.
If you're thinking in terms of relative to the usual purchases, it's more value than the Star Lord Loot Bag for example. Now, in terms of the 6* Featured leaving, I'm not sure why that was removed, or the Shard trade-in. That would make more sense to keep and just gate the 7* Crystals if the concern was choices. That much I'm not sure of. I think the overall idea is to have some higher-end value that Players can save towards and some smaller value on an ongoing basis. Which this certainly achieves. It's only 10 dollars USD a month, after all.
I am not thinking on unit value. I am comparing old sigil to this one. This is a monthly renewed subscription that is better to buy whenever you have the most items to trade and cancel when you don't. This is completely backwards.
I'm talking the total value. The previous Sigil didn't even have anything to appeal to Valiant besides the 7* Crystal and the usual building lower Items up.
This one doesn't have much either....
It has a Titan, an extra 7* to trade in for, and a T4A.
Yes, so it has crapshoots on a 1 month timer, except for the t4a that is the only certain item. Would have made more sense to be able to buy everything in shards for instead of full crystal.
What do you expect? Access to a Titan and another 7* every month for $10?
So you just omit the part where it says access to shards instead of full crystals? I mean you also say 1 titan and an extra 7* as if earning those was easy to buy together, its more of 1 or the other. And if you are talking about the trade you gotta have the 150k 6* shards to actually do the trade, They could have made it 10k 6* shards for 1k 7* shards.
Having Shards and a one-stop trade-off is counterintuitive to promoting a subscription. Of course people can cancel at any time, but I suspect they want to encourage people to maintain a subscription over time with the biggest Rewards being cumulative, rather than a few Shards here and there.
Counterintuitive, interesting. So it takes what to grab a Titan crystal? Like 9 months or so? I mean you get 75 credits if you do it by the webstore on renewal. 700 credits for a Titan crystal. What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
You do know how incentivizing works, don't you?
Actually, I'm going to have to side with Popcorn on this one. I'm fine with the price of the Titan, but I believe the devs erred in making the trades so "chunky." 700 credits for a Titan and, say, 150k 6* shards for a 7* shard are in my opinion reasonable costs, but there's the separate matter to consider about how frequently you can make that trade.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
I wasn't arguing against his suggestion. I was offering an explanation as to why I thought they went the direction they did. There are a few things that have been changed that I think is curious, and I have no objections to the current prices of Tokens or Shards, but I also said getting rid of the Shard exchange was somewhat negative. So I'm in agreement for the most part. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference between personal expectation and what the goal is, and I also made the point that for $10 a month, I don't expect a mind-blowing value.
I can't say the designer wasn't thinking in terms of lock in when they designed those trades: I haven't discussed it with whomever did the design and no basis upon which to speculate, but I'm still going to have to side with Popcorn that this is not something that's likely to work. You can try to force people to subscribe continuously for a year to get things of value, but I believe that is likely to backfire by reducing the perceived value of the subscription. You can't lock people in if they don't subscribe in the first place. I don't see the net incentivizing power of that design choice myself.
Well of course, it's a long time to wait for a payout, with 60 Credits upfront each month, and little to motivate between. I've felt lackluster myself, afrer the T4A and picking up the 7* SW I was ready for pre-revision. I'm just trying to make sense of it. I haven't begun to form my suggestions or thoughts on what's missing. I would agree with your point of view overall on the lack of drive. Even with the Test of the Valiant, that was something to look forward to each week. Now it's just a deposit each month and a waiting game.
So you were just trolling my suggestion with your mental gymnastics?... You haven't thought about it, form your own suggestions, or even think about it; but i was the one doing mental gymnastics. What a joke
Comments
Yeah, a 7* was nice every 6 months, but that's not the highlight, that's a long term subscription bonus. I wouldn't pay 60 bucks for a 7*. If the extra boosts and pot trade ins are gone, I don't see enough value in the sigil, yes there is still some, but not worth the money for me.
What you might call counterintuitive, actually has better value. I much rather top off the shards I already have in a monthly bases than wait a whole bunch of months looking at a store of things I can't buy yet. The sigil looks good right now cause we got the marks to spend. Next month it will be just a store of items you can't buy or trade until the 3rd month or so.
Also agree with how ridiculous some of the purchases are. 700 sigil credits for 1 Titan crystal just seems way too steep.
I look at the Sigil credit value this way. Suppose I look at only the two currencies from the Sigil subscription: the units and the Sigil credits. And limit this to only a discussion of the value in the in-game App Store subscription, not the web store (the web store has more value). We get 300 units plus 60 Sigil credits per cycle (30 days) plus an additional 20 units per week. In a year, that is about 300-x12 + 20x52 = 4640 units and about 720 credits. If I prorate the cost for a year of Sigil that’s about $122 USD ($10 x 12 plus a bit more for the last five days). If I focus my Sigil credits on Titans, that’s basically one Titan. So for a year’s subscription of $122 USD, I am getting 4640 units and a Titan. Is that worth it?
At 3100 units per $100 USD I would expect to get 3782 units for $122 USD. So the units themselves are already more value than normal for the sub. 4640 units and a Titan is thus very good value for $122 USD. If it was a bundle, it would be above average value. If the only two benefits in the Sigil were the units and the Sigil credits and there was literally only one trade in the store, the Titan crystal, it would *still* be worth buying relative to the normal costs of those things. Given that, it is hard to say the price of the Titan is too high.
I’ve seen many comments recently about the Sigil of the form “well, its fine, but the devs *could* have done a lot more, so they *should* have done a lot more.” I’ve heard the store update called “lazy” in reference to this. But our economy designers have consistently taken the position that the goal for MCOC monetization is to sell as little as possible, not as much as possible, to minimize the spending gap in the game. Some players would say the spending gap is so big it doesn’t matter anymore, but I don’t see it that way and the devs certainly don’t see it that way. Wide spending gaps are an existential threat to games like MCOC: push that too far and you enter a death spiral of being unable to attract new players to your game while driving too many way. It is probably the single biggest worry about the long term future of the game within the studio, and thus it is something they have to take way more seriously than players who think eh, whatever.
Players can switch games much faster than developers can switch jobs when games fail.
What would incentive more people to buy it and keep it active?
Omg I am missing 6K titan shards I can buy from the sigil store!!... Or buy a Titan shard in 10 monthly payments?
The difference in here is that I am making a point that probably fits a lot of people in my situation. Meanwhile all you are doing is contraficting it with things that suit you. Hey if access to a Titan crystal every 10 months is good for you so be it. Don't expect others to agree with you. And before you try to twist it into me saying "I want more titan crystals" I wanna be able to top off the ones I earn monthly from content in a monthly bases.
I'm talking about why they may prefer to add Crystals rather than Shards.
If you're turning it into a Subscription service, you would likely want people to build towards Rewards rather than topping some Crystals off with Shards once in a while. That's my theory.
If you're not interested, by all means don't subscribe. It's evident they want to make it something purchase on an ongoing basis and not when they want a few extra Shards.
It shouldn't matter, and it wouldn't matter to a robot, but most humans would see more value from more engagement. A thing you can only do once per year is not a psychologically satisfying return for something you have to pay for every month. No one more than I constantly tries to remind people that the devs aren't about trying to sell as much stuff as possible, it is to sell as little as possible. But it is precisely because of this that they should try to make the things they sell as psychologically appealing as possible. 700 credits for a Titan is economically identical to 70 credits for 2000 Titan shards. But I suspect the latter would be perceived as having higher value, because a) you end up using the trade more often, providing engagement activity on a more frequent timescale, and b) there's the separate psychological impact of being able to "top off" your shards. 2000 shards is 2000 shards and on a spreadsheet 2000 shards is always worth 2000 shards, but the value to a player who has 18000 shards is far different than one who has 1800 shards.
Incentivizing is not just about value. It is about perceived value, and smaller trade options have more perceived value, because they are perceived to be more engaging (we just plain do them more often) and they offer more time sensitive use options (even if those average out in the end). The game must obey the economic realities of design balance, but it must also remember it is designed for humans to play, not economic androids.
This is really about agency. People value agency more than they value actual things. A smaller trade provides more agency - more things to ponder, more options to consider, more events to look forward to. And when you are trying to sell as little as possible, you have to wrap those things up in the best possible way. In my opinion, the Sigil doesn't do that in these cases.
It would build better towards rewards in shard form because we are always getting shards from content. Unless you don't do content at all. If I have a chance this month to buy a few shards I can, I would still spend next month and so on. Right now its basically paying a Titan crystan in 10 monthly payments. Like I said if a Titan crystal on a 10 month period is good for you, so be it. Don't expect people to be ok with it.
Truth is I am pointing out what I believe are flaws. You are pointing out speculation. What I believe is flawed is making them lose a sigil user since day one. Your speculation won't make back the ammount of players that will cancel the subscription.
And for arguments sake, if they are going to charge 700 sigil credits for a Titan, they could have at least made it a nexus.
Personally...
- I'm fine with the prices of the crystals, 7*, Titans, etc... it's an extension of what was there in the past... I see it as same old system with the credits, new options. Choose how long you want to save up for... That's it, that's all...
- I'm fine about the trade-in stuff as well, those are choices people make as well. I'm not going to judge if it's too much or too little... If the perceived value is there for you, make the move, if not, don't... it's a choice you can make.
To me, it's about the overall perceived value on a monthly basis. If you're not spending credits to accumulate them instead, you are losing out over the previous system. It's nice having some agency and fun of being able to get some things every week and wait for others. The new system with the credits takes away a lot of that flexibility.
Keep it at adult level, funny comming from you. Didn't you try to ridicule my points by asking if I wanted a Titan Crystal per month?...
My initial thought might be a bit too much on the player side I do believe there is room for compromise; but expecting players to subscribe for 10 months to get a Titan crystals is a bit ridiculous. Yes I understand it has more perks like units, revives and arena express, 10 months though thats almost 3 Titan Pool roll overs.