My absolute favorite reward structure is to have rng rewards that are offered in an rng fashion.
We completed the same difficulty. We should totally get different rewards value for our effort because... there's a big prize in the package.
10% of a r4 material. If i play raids every month and win the grand prize each of those months, well in 10 months I'd earn 1 tier 7 basic. Game breaking!!!
Totally justifies my ally mates getting 10 valiant crystals.
All so I can possibly, maybe, by chance, in a year get a single tier 7 basic crystal from raids.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
In short — gambling is addictive, rng = gamble, and gambling is very profitable.
Somebody could argue that in a long run rng averages out, but it's clearly not the case with raids, as you only get to do them once per month. Don't worry about it too much, the rewards will be more or less outdated in couple of months
There has to be a compelling reason why they shouldn't be random that overrides all of the benefits of them being random, and the general "random isn't fair" is not sufficiently compelling.
I agree that it isnt nefarious, but dont you think players being so sick of the chests being rng should at least provide them with a hint that maybe we shouldn do this?
Name me a situation in the game where players aren't complaining about randomness in the rewards? Everyone knows that people will complain when rewards are random. All the while continuing to choose the games that implement them while deserting the ones that don't because they complain about the randomness when they don't get the best possible reward, but they straight up quit games where that isn't at least a possibility.
Nobody thinks McDonalds food is healthy or high quality. But they buy tons of it. McDonalds makes what people will pay for, not what they will congratulate them for. McDonalds actually attempted to make their menu more healthy in the 90s. It was a commercial disaster. People *said* they wanted healthy options, and then didn't buy them. Because the people who said they wanted healthy options were not going to McDonalds to get it.
Again, this is not a specific statement about Raid chests themselves. This is about the general principle that the raid chests aren't special until someone proves they are. And saying people complain about it is like saying water is wet. More players complain about champion crystal randomness than complain about raid chests by several orders of magnitude.
Volume doesn't matter. Signal matters. And when the playerbase complains about everything all of the time, the signal to noise ratio is very low. But the response to this tends to be just complain louder.
As long as Raid rewards are random, players are going to feel as if they were scammed because Kabam (Casino) is already asking for a 180 Raid Ticket entry fee (money) on a game mode that might not even provide players with a shot at playing the "mini game"(slot machine) they want.
Which brings the inevitable question, why play raids at all if I am unable to get the resource type I'm looking for in the first place?
I'm looking to open a 7* Titan crystal but all I get are t6b, I'm looking for t7b but I'm getting 10 valiant crystals. That doesn't look promising nor incentivizing.
Data showing less people playing raids will be a signal that matters regardless the numerous complaints taking place.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
The game mode rewards are the exploration rewards you get on monday. The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive. The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
Same with Epoch when you complete 6 paths and you can't choose which class rank up gem you want
And the same defenders in forums will speak up to defend RNG as something good
People lie to themselves so they don't get the rewards they deserve for doing difficult content
At least in your example, everyone gets an AG of some class. It’s not like we finish epoch and then you get some random reward that could be an AG or could be 10 valiant crystals.
There’s a reason they took the AQ crystals away and standardized the rewards in that mode. It was to address this very issue of imbalance between rewards in a cooperative game mode. Same reason everyone gets the same season rewards for AW.
I think there’s only one likely answer for why there are RNG rewards in raids (a premium alliance mode). It’s because the rewards budget probably doesn’t support giving everyone something of equal value. They can’t afford it.
When the disagree button was first added to the forums, I stated my opinion on it. I said it is basically the close door button in most elevators. It’s there to give people something to do so they don’t punch the door, but it often isn’t actually connected to anything except an indicator light.
I still treat it that way. It is an indicator light that doesn’t do anything. I care about why people disagree, not that they disagree. If someone doesn’t care enough to explain why they disagree, I don’t really care that they disagree.
Which brings the inevitable question, why play raids at all if I am unable to get the resource type I'm looking for in the first place?
That’s a good question, and I don’t have a good answer. I’m not sure it is. The question I answered was why the rewards are random in the first place, what possible good reason could there be for them to be random. I can answer that question, because that is a game design question for which I believe I am qualified to answer. But whether the Raid reward structure is a good value proposition has more to do with whether the players believe it to be, not whether they are objectively so.
Why they are the way they are is a completely neutral statement. It doesn’t advocate for or against any particular thing. If you like the way it is, knowing why it is the way it is might be intellectually interesting. If you don’t like the way it is, knowing why it is the way it is seems to me to be the most valuable piece of information you can possess when it comes to advocating for change, because never in the history of ever has a game designer just done something because a player told them to, or any number of players did. Never. They make changes because circumstances change, or their thinking about those circumstances change. Players can change the circumstances by choosing what they play or don’t play, and they can change their thinking by presenting arguments that align with their current thinking.
But if you think if only we complain loud enough and often enough they will have to listen and obey, well, good luck with that. I’ve personally never seen that work before, but I guess there has to be a first time for everything. If it was me, I would not be complaining about everyone hating randomness, I’d be trying to construct a case where some other reward structure would be measurably better in terms of encouraging players to participate while remaining within the bounds of the current reward economy, which is the metric by which the devs would judge the success or failure of any suggestion.
Then again, what do I know about advocating for game changes.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
The game mode rewards are the exploration rewards you get on monday. The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive. The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
So in other words you are telling me that game mode exploration rewards should be seen as the core reason to play Raids given the 180 entry fee, instead of an insignificant Raid chest.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that exploration rewards are as well as bad, if not worse, than the value those insignificant chests have. And if that were the case, we would be talking about a very badly designed game mode reward structure which should be addressed yesterday.
The fact that other currency stores are in a very bad shape does not help sustain your argument, it rather magnifies how devaluated they are and, if anything, exposes the need for those stores to be updated while questioning how are those resources even relevant in today's game economy.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
I don't think the casino example was 100% accurate ( I have never been to one )
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
The only reason why you are wrong is that when you initially joined raids you already knew about the RNG. You went in knowing you could win or lose.
Why play a game mode that is not going to provide you with the resources you are looking for while also paying a 180 entry fee?
The game mode rewards are the exploration rewards you get on monday. The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive. The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
So in other words you are telling me that game mode exploration rewards should be seen as the core reason to play Raids given the 180 entry fee, instead of an insignificant Raid chest.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that exploration rewards are as well as bad, if not worse, than the value those insignificant chests have. And if that were the case, we would be talking about a very badly designed game mode reward structure which should be addressed yesterday.
The fact that other currency stores are in a very bad shape does not help sustain your argument, it rather magnifies how devaluated they are and, if anything, exposes the need for those stores to be updated while questioning how are those resources even relevant in today's game economy.
Yeah yeah everything is bad and RNG is bad blablablahhh... Maybe you should play candy crush and not a gacha game if you don't like RNG. Nevermind candy crush also has RNG god forbid you get something you don't want on a tumble. And the cost... Well everyone knows about the cost and how to get the tickets and what rewards are on the RNG table. Its on the player to decide if they want to join or not at the risk of getting the lowest rewards possible. If RNG on chests is bad, if exploration reward is bad, if the cost is too high, WHY ARE PEOPLE JOINING RAIDS?
I say it every time I see this type of thread come up, I hate RNG Raids chests.
I put up 90m points this raids, the highest in my BG. Someone on my line, that puts up 12m gets a 7* Ultron, I got 10 valiant crystals with 9x 5* and 1x 6* crystal. How is that fair. Happy for him getting Ultron, but why should I get rubbish when I’m the one putting in more effort. The other cheats were 4k of 7* shards and 2x 25% T6cc selectors. This is an awful part of the Raids game design and should be removed.
I’m not saying I should get more for putting up more points but I shouldn’t be getting less! We should all be getting the same value of the rewards. Now those rewards might have RNG built in, e.g. if we all get 7* crystals or all get valiant crystals as rewards. But the value of rewards should never be rng based. Imagine completing 9.2 when it comes out and the rewards value is RNG based. Some people get a Titan nexus, some get a T6cc selector, some get 5k of 7* shards. It wouldn’t happen so was is still happening for raids.
I say it every time I see this type of thread come up, I hate RNG Raids chests.
I put up 90m points this raids, the highest in my BG. Someone on my line, that puts up 12m gets a 7* Ultron, I got 10 valiant crystals with 9x 5* and 1x 6* crystal. How is that fair. Happy for him getting Ultron, but why should I get rubbish when I’m the one putting in more effort. The other cheats were 4k of 7* shards and 2x 25% T6cc selectors. This is an awful part of the Raids game design and should be removed.
I’m not saying I should get more for putting up more points but I shouldn’t be getting less! We should all be getting the same value of the rewards. Now those rewards might have RNG built in, e.g. if we all get 7* crystals or all get valiant crystals as rewards. But the value of rewards should never be rng based. Imagine completing 9.2 when it comes out and the rewards value is RNG based. Some people get a Titan nexus, some get a T6cc selector, some get 5k of 7* shards. It wouldn’t happen so was is still happening for raids.
Can't imagine 9.2 rewards being RNG based cause it would have a completion reward table and an exploration rewards table Now the chests you are going to see on the paths are usually RNG.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
See posts like this are the things that bother me personally. Thinking that you put more work or others put less... No one told you to do it. You did it on your own cause you were bored or wanted to flex the chart in your alliance. No one in your alliance said "Hey save us we suck, do it all please". No you went in over and over on your own. You had bad luck on the chests, it upsets you. Well next time don't put in so much work and it might upset you less.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
See posts like this are the things that bother me personally. Thinking that you put more work or others put less... No one told you to do it. You did it on your own cause you were bored or wanted to flex the chart in your alliance. No one in your alliance said "Hey save us we suck, do it all please". No you went in over and over on your own. You had bad luck on the chests, it upsets you. Well next time don't put in so much work and it might upset you less.
If I don’t put the effort we don’t clear our lane. I don’t care others can’t get the same amount of points as me. I do care that the rewards we get are different. We all get the same value of rewards for act content, it should be the same for raids.
If you’re happy for RNG rewards for raids, great for you. I’ll continue to give my feedback.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
See posts like this are the things that bother me personally. Thinking that you put more work or others put less... No one told you to do it. You did it on your own cause you were bored or wanted to flex the chart in your alliance. No one in your alliance said "Hey save us we suck, do it all please". No you went in over and over on your own. You had bad luck on the chests, it upsets you. Well next time don't put in so much work and it might upset you less.
If I don’t put the effort we don’t clear our lane. I don’t care others can’t get the same amount of points as me. I do care that the rewards we get are different. We all get the same value of rewards for act content, it should be the same for raids.
If you’re happy for RNG rewards for raids, great for you. I’ll continue to give my feedback.
I didn't say I was happy. I just knew there was RNG before I entered so I am fine with it. If you have to put that much "effort" its in internal alliance problem. The game mode was designed to be a collaboration, not 1 person making up for others.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
See posts like this are the things that bother me personally. Thinking that you put more work or others put less... No one told you to do it. You did it on your own cause you were bored or wanted to flex the chart in your alliance. No one in your alliance said "Hey save us we suck, do it all please". No you went in over and over on your own. You had bad luck on the chests, it upsets you. Well next time don't put in so much work and it might upset you less.
If I don’t put the effort we don’t clear our lane. I don’t care others can’t get the same amount of points as me. I do care that the rewards we get are different. We all get the same value of rewards for act content, it should be the same for raids.
If you’re happy for RNG rewards for raids, great for you. I’ll continue to give my feedback.
I didn't say I was happy. I just knew there was RNG before I entered so I am fine with it. If you have to put that much "effort" its in internal alliance problem. The game mode was designed to be a collaboration, not 1 person making up for others.
Absolutely it is a collaboration as AW is a collaboration, which used to have RNG value based rewards. This stopped as it was almost universally disliked. Even if we all put in exactly the same amount of points my personal view is the value of the rewards shouldn’t be RNG based.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
ur example is missing half the idea. raids is like a slot machine saying oh if u get the exact same result as ur friend, u can get 100$ OR 50$ OR 10$ like no we paid the same amount to play we got the same results why is it that even if WE BOTH WIN, there is still an additional layer of rng. Its like u need to get lucky twice, once to get the titan shards for example, and another time to get the good amount of them which is hella unnecessary and doesnt exist anywhere else in the game.
If you and 4 other buddies go to a casino with 100 dollars each, not all 5 are going to win. Most likely chance is all 5 will lose; but there is a chance 1 wins and the other 4 lose. Are you going to blame the casino or yourself for going?
ur example is missing half the idea. raids is like a slot machine saying oh if u get the exact same result as ur friend, u can get 100$ OR 50$ OR 10$ like no we paid the same amount to play we got the same results why is it that even if WE BOTH WIN, there is still an additional layer of rng. Its like u need to get lucky twice, once to get the titan shards for example, and another time to get the good amount of them which is hella unnecessary and doesnt exist anywhere else in the game.
Did you know it was a possibility to get random rewards that you might not like? Is the sum of the 3 crates and exploration rewards + glory worth less than the 180 tickets?... You knew exactly what you were getting into and what types of rewards were available for the price of 180 tickets. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Some of the rewards are set some are RNG, if you don't like it you got the choice of not doing it
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Raids are not the same as a normal weeks AQ. The rewards available are massively different, otherwise we would just run Map 6 on raids weeks and be happy with the normal glory and rank rewards. We do raids for the raids rewards of which the chests are not just a bonus, but a fundamental part of using the 180 raids credits it takes to do raids.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
The Glory is increased as well, that goes into the overall.
I'm still curious why we're debating RNG in a game that was built around RNG. The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
Because we are not debating the existence of RNG, we are debating how it's being implemented which are two different things.
If RNG chests are bonus rewards, rank rewards that have set values, should be exponentially increased according to the proportion values of all the aquirable resources in these "Bonus" chests. If the bulk of rank rewards is glory, the Glory Store should be updated at all times to have better value than the rng chest rewards. Otherwise there is a flaw in reward system design.
With the current reward system, (chests are not the prime asset) every player should, at the very least, be able to purchase all of the aquirable resources in RNG chests through the glory store at larger cuantities and with better value because that would be the only way actual reward system would have any reasonable meaning while rewarding rank positions properly. Why? Because chests are seen as "Bonus Chests", it's that simple.
Otherwise, if the bulk of the rewards in Raids are going to be rng chests, (like it currently feels) rng rewards should ALL be enticing in order for the reward system design to make any sense. And at the very least rng should not decide cuantity of resource, it should decide the type of resources which all should already have set value cuantities.
Comments
We completed the same difficulty. We should totally get different rewards value for our effort because... there's a big prize in the package.
10% of a r4 material. If i play raids every month and win the grand prize each of those months, well in 10 months I'd earn 1 tier 7 basic. Game breaking!!!
Totally justifies my ally mates getting 10 valiant crystals.
All so I can possibly, maybe, by chance, in a year get a single tier 7 basic crystal from raids.
Lol OK.
but since you have made this comment let me make one
yes when 5 people go to a casino, there is definitely a chance that 1 wins and other 4 lose or all 5 lose or any other combination of winning and losing
but every single one gets the same amount of chips/slot machine tokens or whatever else for $100 correct?
so think of rewards from chests as those chips, everyone should get the same amount
let's say the reward was a fully formed titan crystal and what everyone gets from the titan be the gamble some will win and get okoye or a champ they want, some will lose and get a 4th dupe on BWDO or a champ they don't want
( also don't say the conqueror and exploration rewards are the chips/slot machine tokens they are rewards for completing and exploring the raids same as completing and exploring ordeal
again I have never been to a casino )
Which brings the inevitable question, why play raids at all if I am unable to get the resource type I'm looking for in the first place?
I'm looking to open a 7* Titan crystal but all I get are t6b, I'm looking for t7b but I'm getting 10 valiant crystals. That doesn't look promising nor incentivizing.
Data showing less people playing raids will be a signal that matters regardless the numerous complaints taking place.
The chests are rng chest, same RNG chest one can find in paths of EQ or any other chest. You could get some lame iso or a revive.
The cost? Aren't all players complaining about the loyalty store, glory store, incursion store? So why is the 180 tickets an issue when you can use the currency from those useless stores?
There’s a reason they took the AQ crystals away and standardized the rewards in that mode. It was to address this very issue of imbalance between rewards in a cooperative game mode. Same reason everyone gets the same season rewards for AW.
I think there’s only one likely answer for why there are RNG rewards in raids (a premium alliance mode). It’s because the rewards budget probably doesn’t support giving everyone something of equal value. They can’t afford it.
I still treat it that way. It is an indicator light that doesn’t do anything. I care about why people disagree, not that they disagree. If someone doesn’t care enough to explain why they disagree, I don’t really care that they disagree.
Why they are the way they are is a completely neutral statement. It doesn’t advocate for or against any particular thing. If you like the way it is, knowing why it is the way it is might be intellectually interesting. If you don’t like the way it is, knowing why it is the way it is seems to me to be the most valuable piece of information you can possess when it comes to advocating for change, because never in the history of ever has a game designer just done something because a player told them to, or any number of players did. Never. They make changes because circumstances change, or their thinking about those circumstances change. Players can change the circumstances by choosing what they play or don’t play, and they can change their thinking by presenting arguments that align with their current thinking.
But if you think if only we complain loud enough and often enough they will have to listen and obey, well, good luck with that. I’ve personally never seen that work before, but I guess there has to be a first time for everything. If it was me, I would not be complaining about everyone hating randomness, I’d be trying to construct a case where some other reward structure would be measurably better in terms of encouraging players to participate while remaining within the bounds of the current reward economy, which is the metric by which the devs would judge the success or failure of any suggestion.
Then again, what do I know about advocating for game changes.
In standard difficulty it was annoying but whatever, but in Nightmare it's just outright insulting.
25% T4A ~= 4 T6B ~= 4 T3A ~= 1T6 CC =/= 10K Titan Shards =/= 10 Valiant Crystals =/= 25% T4A
It's wild. What internal calculator actually suggested those were evenly balanced?
Also, why no selectors?
The RNG aspect is whatever. The rewards themselves for Nightmare are not okay.
The only flaw behind this reasoning is that exploration rewards are as well as bad, if not worse, than the value those insignificant chests have. And if that were the case, we would be talking about a very badly designed game mode reward structure which should be addressed yesterday.
The fact that other currency stores are in a very bad shape does not help sustain your argument, it rather magnifies how devaluated they are and, if anything, exposes the need for those stores to be updated while questioning how are those resources even relevant in today's game economy.
The Chests are bonus Rewards. The focus in AQ has always been Rank Rewards, and the acquisition of Glory since its addition.
And the cost... Well everyone knows about the cost and how to get the tickets and what rewards are on the RNG table. Its on the player to decide if they want to join or not at the risk of getting the lowest rewards possible.
If RNG on chests is bad, if exploration reward is bad, if the cost is too high, WHY ARE PEOPLE JOINING RAIDS?
I put up 90m points this raids, the highest in my BG. Someone on my line, that puts up 12m gets a 7* Ultron, I got 10 valiant crystals with 9x 5* and 1x 6* crystal. How is that fair. Happy for him getting Ultron, but why should I get rubbish when I’m the one putting in more effort. The other cheats were 4k of 7* shards and 2x 25% T6cc selectors. This is an awful part of the Raids game design and should be removed.
I’m not saying I should get more for putting up more points but I shouldn’t be getting less! We should all be getting the same value of the rewards. Now those rewards might have RNG built in, e.g. if we all get 7* crystals or all get valiant crystals as rewards. But the value of rewards should never be rng based. Imagine completing 9.2 when it comes out and the rewards value is RNG based. Some people get a Titan nexus, some get a T6cc selector, some get 5k of 7* shards. It wouldn’t happen so was is still happening for raids.
Now the chests you are going to see on the paths are usually RNG.
When some people are getting 7* Ultrons and Titan crystals for putting in the same or less effort than me, they are absolutely not bonus items. There’s a massive disparity between the rewards and it’s a level of unfairness that shouldn’t be in the game.
If you’re happy for RNG rewards for raids, great for you. I’ll continue to give my feedback.
If you have to put that much "effort" its in internal alliance problem. The game mode was designed to be a collaboration, not 1 person making up for others.
Ie.
You get a crystal with rng of which t6cc you get.
You get a crystal with rng of which 7 star you get.
The initial reward value should be the same in each chest for each person.
The only variable should be in type of reward, but stay within the same quality of reward.
The rng as it is just leaves a sour taste in everyone mouth, and leaves most people feeling cheated and disenchanted.
Like what? 💀
Is the sum of the 3 crates and exploration rewards + glory worth less than the 180 tickets?...
You knew exactly what you were getting into and what types of rewards were available for the price of 180 tickets. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Some of the rewards are set some are RNG, if you don't like it you got the choice of not doing it
If RNG chests are bonus rewards, rank rewards that have set values, should be exponentially increased according to the proportion values of all the aquirable resources in these "Bonus" chests. If the bulk of rank rewards is glory, the Glory Store should be updated at all times to have better value than the rng chest rewards. Otherwise there is a flaw in reward system design.
With the current reward system, (chests are not the prime asset) every player should, at the very least, be able to purchase all of the aquirable resources in RNG chests through the glory store at larger cuantities and with better value because that would be the only way actual reward system would have any reasonable meaning while rewarding rank positions properly. Why? Because chests are seen as "Bonus Chests", it's that simple.
Otherwise, if the bulk of the rewards in Raids are going to be rng chests, (like it currently feels) rng rewards should ALL be enticing in order for the reward system design to make any sense. And at the very least rng should not decide cuantity of resource, it should decide the type of resources which all should already have set value cuantities.