This is not what people wanted from the beta program

BahamutBahamut Posts: 2,307 ★★★★
edited June 2018 in General Discussion
Kabam, people (including me) have been begging for some of the trash champs to get buffs so that they’re actually playable after the masssive success with Red Hulk and Luke Cage. One if these champions for example:
Magneto
Colossus
DP X-Force
Kamalah Khan
Spider Gwen
Netflix Daredevil
Groot
Iron Patriot
Hulkbuster
Venom
Carnage
Ant Man
I’m sure there are others that I just can’t think of at the moment. It’s been months since you’ve used this, and when you finally use it again, it’s to change Dexterity and Mystic Dispersion? No one asked for that. No one. I know that some people have asked for Dexterity to be a passive so that it doesn’t trigger MD, but that doesn’t seem like something you’d need to use the beta program for.
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Comments

  • na_na_ Posts: 55
    You don't represent me. I want the interaction between dex and MD changed.
  • AegonTAegonT Posts: 155
    Maybe people had stopped asking for a change to the way MD and dexterity interact, but only because they’d been begging for it for so long they’d given up on it ever actually getting fixed.

    I’m thrilled they’re taking a look at this. It’s long overdue.
  • batatobatato Posts: 30
    Not cool...

    beta should be for fun things. Champs being improved ... not messing with dexterity
  • SagetrofholzSagetrofholz Posts: 125
    I agree this seems like something very strange to beta test. Make dexterity a passive effect so it doesn't trigger MD, end of story spend the time and resources on something else
  • DrOctavius2_2DrOctavius2_2 Posts: 430 ★★
    I wanted it lol
  • Dale_DobacDale_Dobac Posts: 41
    Less people were asking for it because Blade has basically killed all of the mystic Defenders.

    Having MD5 was the only thing salvaging any value for defenders like Dorm, Juggs and Magik. It’s why you’re seeing less and less of them in AW.

    If MD is nerfed I’m going to really regret using T2As on Dorm and using so many units on unlocking MD5.
  • AxeCopFireAxeCopFire Posts: 1,115 ★★★
    Bahamut wrote: »
    It’s been months since you’ve used this, and when you finally use it again, it’s to change Dexterity and Mystic Dispersion? No one asked for that. No one.

    You are completely delusional if you really believe this.
    I know that some people have asked for Dexterity to be a passive so that it doesn’t trigger MD, but that doesn’t seem like something you’d need to use the beta program for.

    When you're using hyperbole to make a point, immediately contradicting yourself doesn't really help.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,979 ★★★★★
    batato wrote: »
    Not cool...

    beta should be for fun things. Champs being improved ... not messing with dexterity

    The problem with this statement is that Beta Testing is useful for just about anything you want to ensure feedback on. It's not really about what's fun. It's about gathering feedback on changes in a controlled experiment.
  • BCdiscmanBCdiscman Posts: 348
    edited June 2018
    Sorry double post *deleted*
  • BCdiscmanBCdiscman Posts: 348
    But to the people losing their cool and calling for boycotts and worse... please remember that we don't even know what KABAM's proposed changes even are. Maybe it is not a nerf at all. Maybe it is just a fix to the problem of dexterity feeding mystic dispersion when you evade (which I believe a majority of players agree is BS).
  • ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 836 ★★★
    I think a cooldown timer might be implemented, for things like Morningstar's sp2 where you can either block it and take huge damage, or dex it and watch her power go straight back up to 2 bars. That's one of the biggest issues with it. I don't think they're completely removing it, more just making it a bit more manageable.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★
    edited June 2018
    Players have spent months (some 1+ year) refining their shallow evading skills to avoid feeding MD in Alliance War. Learning this skill has carried over to both old and recent game content, like Labyrinth of Legends Agent Venom (still bugged) and Act 5.2's introduction of buffet, respectively. We'll know soon what the proposed beta changes for dexterity and MD will be, but regardless this situation could've been handled more effectively and with some transparency. I don't understand the strategy behind observing 100s+ of players complain for over a year about dexterity and MD's interaction and then deciding to consider changing these masteries without warning.

    Technically Kabam hasn't broken their promise about nerfing champions since 12.0 if they do decide to nerf dexterity or MD in any way. Score one for semantics if either do end up being nerfed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,979 ★★★★★
    Players have spent months (some 1+ year) refining their shallow evading skills to avoid feeding MD in Alliance War. Learning this skill has carried over to both old and recent game content, like Labyrinth of Legends Agent Venom (still bugged) and Act 5.2's introduction of buffet, respectively. We'll know soon what the proposed beta changes for dexterity and MD will be, but regardless this situation could've been handled more effectively and with some transparency. I don't understand the strategy behind observing 100s+ of players complain for over a year about dexterity and MD's interaction and then deciding to consider changing these masteries without warning.

    Technically Kabam hasn't broken their promise about nerfing champions since 12.0 if they do decide to nerf dexterity or MD in any way. Score one for semantics if either do end up being nerfed.

    Without warning? What more than an Announcement and a Beta Test could they do to give warning?
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★
    Without warning? What more than an Announcement and a Beta Test could they do to give warning?

    When the beta program was announced we were told that champions were being considered for changes, not masteries. 6+ months later we get an announcement two masteries are under consideration for changes through the beta program.

    So many players ranked up and awakened mystic champions for AW defense for this reason alone. They hated mystic wars but still did this because until Blade was released because before Blade the most effective mystic wars strategy was if you can’t beat them join them.

    If you had gone over my entire post you’d see part of it said “...observing 100s+ of players complain for over a year about dexterity and MD’s interaction and then deciding to consider changing these masteries without warning.” Ignoring a large % of the community’s constructive feedback in the form of not responding to such feedback, then announcing changes are being considered is “without warning” in my opinion.

    If you choose to respond this this comment, please address it in its entirety. It can be non-constructive to misrepresent the opinions of others by cherrypicking specifics out of context.
  • ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 836 ★★★
    @DTMelodicMetal I really hope I understand it right because I really hate when things are taken out of context. If it is, let me know.
    I think the beta test does work as a warning, because the beta test itself is not indicative that changes will be put in place. It could also have been that all the players complaints were being taking into consideration and being looked at as potential solutions within the confines of the game mechanics, which have been shown to be very complicated (as evidenced by Magik's l2 bug and the issue that required evade buffs to be turned into passive ones). I think the biggest problem is a lack of communication on the part of Kabam, if they had someone say "Great idea!! I'm sending this to the game developers, and we'll try and find a solution which works for everyone," then it'd probably be a different situation. Again, you can't assume that they did ignore all the feedback, and announcing that there is a beta test doesn't mean there will be changes. The fact that they even announced that it was happening, instead of, say involving the content creators in it and swearing them to secrecy seems to me like fair warning. Now all we can do is wait and let it play out.

    Again, if I took anything out of context or misunderstood, please let me know and I'll try and fix it!
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 5,306 ★★★★★
    Speak for yourself. I want it.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bahamut wrote: »
    It’s been months since you’ve used this, and when you finally use it again, it’s to change Dexterity and Mystic Dispersion? No one asked for that. No one. I know that some people have asked for Dexterity to be a passive so that it doesn’t trigger MD, but that doesn’t seem like something you’d need to use the beta program for.

    I don't know why people keep saying very obviously false things like "no one asked for this" when literally hundreds of players asked for this. No amount of repetition is going to make me forget that happened, but is the purpose to use the Jedi Mind Trick on the weaker willed forum readers?

    Yeah because before this was one of the main and unfair issues causing loads of resources spent/generated. After blade and some tweaks to other chars...not anymore.
    As much as i welcome the change i also dont have ham on my eyes.

    MD has progressively become irrelevant and not a source of either annoyance or units spending. No wonder now can be reworked. It's almost like an excuse to show "we listen",Tbh given the game progression and the new forms of unavoibale, unparryable and unblockabke dmg, i would have rather liked improvements in other sectors.
  • BmanBman Posts: 177
    I’ve asked for this for 1yr now! Hope they get it right! Dexterity should not only NOT REFRESH WITH EVERY EVADE, it should b 100% PASSIVE AND CAUSE 0 effects!! When it was introduced it was NOT a buff! They only changed it to separate the difference between passive evade (spidey) and u actually evading. That’s when it became a buff. The fact that it’s not 100% passive and doesn’t contribute to MD, masocism, bane of dembollah is BS! Kabam please get this right. Just put it back tonwhrre it was 1.5yrs ago. Stop changing things
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Without warning? What more than an Announcement and a Beta Test could they do to give warning?

    When the beta program was announced we were told that champions were being considered for changes, not masteries. 6+ months later we get an announcement two masteries are under consideration for changes through the beta program.

    So many players ranked up and awakened mystic champions for AW defense for this reason alone. They hated mystic wars but still did this because until Blade was released because before Blade the most effective mystic wars strategy was if you can’t beat them join them.

    If you had gone over my entire post you’d see part of it said “...observing 100s+ of players complain for over a year about dexterity and MD’s interaction and then deciding to consider changing these masteries without warning.” Ignoring a large % of the community’s constructive feedback in the form of not responding to such feedback, then announcing changes are being considered is “without warning” in my opinion.

    If you choose to respond this this comment, please address it in its entirety. It can be non-constructive to misrepresent the opinions of others by cherrypicking specifics out of context.

    it does not need to be addressed in its entirety as the one thing that stands out to me is you say they are changing masteries without warning......
    HELLO!!!!!!!
    BETA TEST!!!!!!!!
    nothing changed yet......
    beta test will begin.......
    then.....
    after the beta test is done some changes may or may not be made.....

    this is warning and plenty of time. if last beta is anything to go by it will be atleast one month before changes are made if changes get made.
  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 420 ★★★
    edited June 2018
    Here’s what I see as the major issue. Yes, MD may have been annoying at some point, especially in AW. And yes, the interaction with Dexterity is somewhat questionable. However, those issues have already been largely resolved. Mystic wars are a thing of the past. Sure, you still see some mystic champs on defense (and there should be, right?) but they’re not prevalent anymore. In fact, there are now ‘uber’ defenders that strike way more fear in the hearts of players than any mystic. E.g., the completely OP Iron Man IW, Modok, Medusa, Void, Sentinel, et cetera. So from an AW-perspective, tinkering with MD makes little sense at this time. It’s basically an offensive mastery now. And one that many players paid good money for.

    When they introduced a range of mystic slayers (e.g. Blade and Rulk) those players (let’s call them what they are from now on: paying customers) shrugged it off. Everyone ‘secretly’ knew Mystic Wars had to be countered. And besides, the mastery would still be an ace in the hole from an offensive standpoint. But by suggesting the mastery now needs a change (sure, it’s speculation at this point, but you don’t start a pilot if you don’t want to change anything) those same customers get upset. And rightfully so, because it would (yeah, yeah, could) not only mean their investment in the mastery won’t have the return they were initially promised, but also that the value of their mystic champs is reduced even further. First as defenders. Now as offensive champs. And I think a lot of people ranked up mystics. For a lot of units and money. So not only does any change to MD not help players out in any meaningful way, it’s also a kick in the teeth of customers who invested in mystics in general, and this mastery in particular.

    Now, had they announced this BEFORE the introduction of mystic counters, it would have made sense. It wouldn’t have been the most elegant solution, but, hey. But they didn’t. Instead they apparently only started working on it now, when it won’t have much of an impact on anyone, except the customers who actually bought the mastery and ranked up a bunch of mystics. It’s almost as if Kabam is purposefully living in the past. "Hey, you wanted this? Look at us making short work of it!" Except players wanted this when it actually was an issue. Now now.

    What I find even more annoying, is that other expensive masteries – including the Inequity/Resonate combo – that are confirmed broken, aren’t looked into first. After all, those are actually broken (!) while MD (whatever you think about it) is not. Broken stuff should get fixed first! Lastly, and more in general: dexterity’s interaction with certain nodes in Act V is way more annoying than it triggering MD ever was.
  • borntohulaborntohula Posts: 420 ★★★
    Here’s what I see as the major issue. Yes, MD may have been annoying at some point, especially in AW. And yes, the interaction with Dexterity is somewhat questionable. However, those issues have already been largely resolved. Mystic wars are a thing of the past. Sure, you still see some mystic champs on defense (and there should be, right?) but they’re not prevalent anymore. In fact, there are now ‘uber’ defenders that strike way more fear in the hearts of players than any mystic. E.g., the completely OP Iron Man IW, Modok, Medusa, Void, Sentinel, et cetera. So from an AW-perspective, tinkering with MD makes little sense at this time. It’s basically an offensive mastery now. And one that many players paid good money for.

    When they introduced a whole range of mystic slayers (e.g. Blade and Rulk) those players (let’s call them what they are from now on: paying customers) shrugged it off. Everyone ‘secretly’ knew Mystic Wars had to be countered. And besides, the mastery would still be an ace in the hole from an offensive standpoint. But by suggesting the mastery now needs a change (sure, it’s speculation at this point, but you don’t start a pilot if you don’t want to change anything) those same customers get upset. And rightfully so, because it would (yes, could) not only mean their investment in the mastery won’t have the return they were initially promised, but also that the value of their mystic champs is reduced even further. And I think a lot of people ranked up mystics. For a lot of units and money. So not only does any change to MD not really help players out in any meaningful way, it’s also a kick in the teeth of customers who invested in mystics in general, and this mastery in particular.

    Now, had they announced this BEFORE the introduction of mystic counters, it would have made sense. It wouldn’t have been the most elegant solution, but, hey. But they didn’t. Instead they apparently only started working on it now, when it won’t have much of an impact on anyone, except the customers who actually bought the mastery and ranked up a bunch of mystics. It’s almost as if Kabam is living in the past. “Hey, you guys wanted this fixed, right?” Except people wanted it fixed when it actually was in issue. What I find even more annoying, is that other expensive masteries – including the Inequity/Resonate combo – that are confirmed broken, aren’t looked into first. After all, those are actually broken, while MD (whatever you think about it) is not. Fix what’s broken first, then go after the rest. Lastly, and more in general: dexterity’s interaction with certain nodes in Act V is way more annoying than it triggering MD ever was.
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