I'm not being obtuse. I'm being ginger. However, that's not making a point, so let me try the blunt approach.
Whether the Mod made a mistake or not, they were doing their job. That's what they do. Identify bugs and close Threads that aren't. They were wrong, yes. However, they weren't continually spreading misinformation. They believed it wasn't a bug, for whatever reason. Then they went on doing their job.
6 months later, someone digs up the Thread, as this community loves to look for inconsistencies, and it becomes some sort of platform for injustice. At this point, it's barely even about the change. It's about getting a charge out of someone being wrong.
In simple words I have to say if I do mistake during fight and get KO then I use revive and potions and bring back my champ on his feet (basically I pay for my champ and throw units), and if kabam employees do mistake then you close the topic and saying it's a bug. Thats cheating in any game . and tell me what is use of 5* rank 4 AA if I can't use him in LOL I like him only because he can bypass limber and stun for main bosses. Except it he is trash for me, similar like others 90% champions in game which is already trash. All I want AA specific rank down tickets please. And also my all 80 generic and 40 mutunt signature stones. I already fed up with this things,
You can even wait if it's not gonna stop here, kabam factory coming with blade regen bug, Spiderman SE taunt bug, iceman cold snap bug, gwenpool bleed bug, quake shock bugs, Hyperion power gain, medusa fury bug, everything will gonna bug in next few months, but auto block thing never gonna bug.
Quick question... Have they ever given out champion specific RDTs? I am guessing the minor backlash is preferable to them having to do the work to create them.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
I was about to go through this section by section exposing the many, many problems with this but I just don't have the energy lol. You are against rank down tickets per se, so you aren't going to see reason regarding why they are appropriate in this case. There really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
I was about to go through this section by section exposing the many, many problems with this but I just don't have the energy lol. You are against rank down tickets per se, so you aren't going to see reason regarding why they are appropriate in this case. There really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.
I think the only thing keeping me interested in the ongoing saga is the hope that there WILL be RDTs issued and GroundhogWhiteknight will have egg all over his or her face. Or it's face. Whatever.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
I was about to go through this section by section exposing the many, many problems with this but I just don't have the energy lol. You are against rank down tickets per se, so you aren't going to see reason regarding why they are appropriate in this case. There really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.
It was an aside, really. I'm not for Tickets, but the real point I have is he's not altered in a significant or detrimental way. He's a great Champ. I have him and use him everyday, and it never even crossed my mind to use him to bypass Immunity. Plus, it was a fix, not a nerf.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
I was about to go through this section by section exposing the many, many problems with this but I just don't have the energy lol. You are against rank down tickets per se, so you aren't going to see reason regarding why they are appropriate in this case. There really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.
It was an aside, really. I'm not for Tickets, but the real point I have is he's not altered in a significant or detrimental way. He's a great Champ. I have him and use him everyday, and it never even crossed my mind to use him to bypass Immunity. Plus, it was a fix, not a nerf.
Wrong. They took an ability away that he was the only champ in the whole game to have. That is as significant and detrimental as it is possible to get. He's still a great champ, but that's beside the point. He has been nerfed.
We've already established that it was a mistaken comment 6 months ago. Which people have had 6 months to use it to their advantage. Irregardless, if you're Ranking for one reason alone, whether confirmed on the Forum or not, you are limiting your own use of a Champ. That's not the extent of his use by far. A few Nodes in LOL. He's highly useful as-is.
Gosh. That highlighted part is clear evidence you have no idea what you are talking about.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
A few issues with your comment:
(1) I’m pretty sure I’ve been around the forums about as long as anyone—I’m aware how things work. I’ve kept the same forums handle the whole time and except for the period it’s the same as my IGN. Anyone who wants to see if I actually play the game can readily check me out.
(2) Actually, that is how information disclosure works, especially if you are selling a product, which they are. The fact is that customers shouldn't be willing to accept less candor from a phone game than they would be for something they purchase in the real world. Relieving a company from any obligation to correct false information on their website is problematic—period.
(3) Miike said this was a known bug that had been creating more and more issues for the team. In my world, that’s not a novel issue that just got looked at “recently.” I’m guessing the content he was worried about AA plowing through wasn’t Act 1 or Tier 18 AW either. There’s realistically no way the team couldn’t have known the impact this change would have on high level play.
(4) In my opinion, the AA mess is an outgrowth of a game team policy that emphasizes closed threads, deliberate ignorance on the part of support personnel and limited communications with the community. It’s no wonder bad information gets out and continues to circulate in that kind of environment. Ad0ra was a ready source of information and discussion who actually seemed to enjoy dishing with the players. We haven’t had that kind of presence since she left and the game suffers for it.
Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
1) I'm looking to get VPN software
2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.
My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.
I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.
I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.
For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him
then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
A few issues with your comment:
(1) I’m pretty sure I’ve been around the forums about as long as anyone—I’m aware how things work. I’ve kept the same forums handle the whole time and except for the period it’s the same as my IGN. Anyone who wants to see if I actually play the game can readily check me out.
(2) Actually, that is how information disclosure works, especially if you are selling a product, which they are. The fact is that customers shouldn't be willing to accept less candor from a phone game than they would be for something they purchase in the real world. Relieving a company from any obligation to correct false information on their website is problematic—period.
(3) Miike said this was a known bug that had been creating more and more issues for the team. In my world, that’s not a novel issue that just got looked at “recently.” I’m guessing the content he was worried about AA plowing through wasn’t Act 1 or Tier 18 AW either. There’s realistically no way the team couldn’t have known the impact this change would have on high level play.
(4) In my opinion, the AA mess is an outgrowth of a game team policy that emphasizes closed threads, deliberate ignorance on the part of support personnel and limited communications with the community. It’s no wonder bad information gets out and continues to circulate in that kind of environment. Ad0ra was a ready source of information and discussion who actually seemed to enjoy dishing with the players. We haven’t had that kind of presence since she left and the game suffers for it.
Dr. Zola
This is where things like this should have been done in a User Acceptance Testing environment. Many of these issues which we are seeing as a result of the the newest release would have been exposed by proper use of UAT.
They are doing a wide spread UAT to test MD and Dexterity interaction, there was no reason this could not also have been part of that testing.
More and more content is simply being rejected by users. I don't know how much longer alliances are going to be able to handle the impact these types of changes are having.
Comments
In simple words I have to say if I do mistake during fight and get KO then I use revive and potions and bring back my champ on his feet (basically I pay for my champ and throw units), and if kabam employees do mistake then you close the topic and saying it's a bug. Thats cheating in any game . and tell me what is use of 5* rank 4 AA if I can't use him in LOL I like him only because he can bypass limber and stun for main bosses. Except it he is trash for me, similar like others 90% champions in game which is already trash. All I want AA specific rank down tickets please. And also my all 80 generic and 40 mutunt signature stones. I already fed up with this things,
You can even wait if it's not gonna stop here, kabam factory coming with blade regen bug, Spiderman SE taunt bug, iceman cold snap bug, gwenpool bleed bug, quake shock bugs, Hyperion power gain, medusa fury bug, everything will gonna bug in next few months, but auto block thing never gonna bug.
No gold issue - Kabam introduces dungeons, reduces arena gold costs
No alpha1 issue - more alpha given in special events
No RDT without change in champion functionality - Christmas rank down tickets
Actually, every day that thread labeled “not a bug” was left up on the forums, they responded with that specific answer to the community. That’s how official guidance works—it’s not a one-time only thing when you leave it up day after day.
It also wasn’t just one lone guy sitting at a terminal by himself. That’s also not how it works. There was surely game team consultation before the answer was given, the thread title changed and the thread locked down.
And it wasn’t the day after that statement was issued that the change was contemplated or made. The “fix” was part of discussions for a period of time. And according to Miike it was done because the “bug” was growing more inconvenient for existing and future content. When something is in the works for one of your more popular products, it’s not ridiculous to think that you need to begin preparing your customers for the change via official communication. That’s how it works.
Regardless of whether you think RDTs are warranted, or whether you think stunning stun immune is fair, the game team induced customer reliance on their official guidance. And they sold products based on that reliance, quite possibly when they already knew that guidance was wrong. In most non-gaming environments, that would present a case where a refund or restitution of some kind is appropriate.
That’s my problem with all of this in a nutshell.
Dr. Zola
Exactly the reason why I am annoyed.
How long prior to the changelog was this decided?
That's not their practice in general. They don't pop in to say what they're kind of, sort of, working on. They notify us when changes are confirmed. Had someone posted again about the issue, that response would likely have been different than 6 months ago. However, it's not the way things work here, and those of us who have been around for some time are aware of that.
I'm not even convinced the heads-up would have made a difference. The reaction would have been the same on both sides. People are generalizing, as if they were sitting on this for months, when it's entirely possible that it was something they revisited recently. Who knows? Yes, someone was wrong. However, my standpoint is people still Ranked for their own reasons and have had ample time to use that bug, and it is not a major change to how he performs, not in the sense of his usefulness at all. This is not a 12.0 alteration. If people want Tickets, that should accompany a recompense of all the Rewards they earned as a result of using that bug, which is my opinion, and it is not logical of course. Just makes the point that people benefited up until this point, and that should be enough. Anyone who can look at him and say he's useless or not worth Ranking after that change is not really seeing his value, in my opinion.
As I said before, it's less about the change and more about accosting them for being wrong.
Then again, I don't agree with the idea of Tickets in general. Not only do they contradict the design of the game as well as the TOS and open a myriad of issues, they suggest negating the use people get out of Champs up to the point of the change.
I was about to go through this section by section exposing the many, many problems with this but I just don't have the energy lol. You are against rank down tickets per se, so you aren't going to see reason regarding why they are appropriate in this case. There really isn't any point in continuing the discussion.
I think the only thing keeping me interested in the ongoing saga is the hope that there WILL be RDTs issued and GroundhogWhiteknight will have egg all over his or her face. Or it's face. Whatever.
It was an aside, really. I'm not for Tickets, but the real point I have is he's not altered in a significant or detrimental way. He's a great Champ. I have him and use him everyday, and it never even crossed my mind to use him to bypass Immunity. Plus, it was a fix, not a nerf.
Wrong. They took an ability away that he was the only champ in the whole game to have. That is as significant and detrimental as it is possible to get. He's still a great champ, but that's beside the point. He has been nerfed.
Gosh. That highlighted part is clear evidence you have no idea what you are talking about.
A few issues with your comment:
(1) I’m pretty sure I’ve been around the forums about as long as anyone—I’m aware how things work. I’ve kept the same forums handle the whole time and except for the period it’s the same as my IGN. Anyone who wants to see if I actually play the game can readily check me out.
(2) Actually, that is how information disclosure works, especially if you are selling a product, which they are. The fact is that customers shouldn't be willing to accept less candor from a phone game than they would be for something they purchase in the real world. Relieving a company from any obligation to correct false information on their website is problematic—period.
(3) Miike said this was a known bug that had been creating more and more issues for the team. In my world, that’s not a novel issue that just got looked at “recently.” I’m guessing the content he was worried about AA plowing through wasn’t Act 1 or Tier 18 AW either. There’s realistically no way the team couldn’t have known the impact this change would have on high level play.
(4) In my opinion, the AA mess is an outgrowth of a game team policy that emphasizes closed threads, deliberate ignorance on the part of support personnel and limited communications with the community. It’s no wonder bad information gets out and continues to circulate in that kind of environment. Ad0ra was a ready source of information and discussion who actually seemed to enjoy dishing with the players. We haven’t had that kind of presence since she left and the game suffers for it.
Dr. Zola
This is where things like this should have been done in a User Acceptance Testing environment. Many of these issues which we are seeing as a result of the the newest release would have been exposed by proper use of UAT.
They are doing a wide spread UAT to test MD and Dexterity interaction, there was no reason this could not also have been part of that testing.
More and more content is simply being rejected by users. I don't know how much longer alliances are going to be able to handle the impact these types of changes are having.