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Alliance Wars Season 3 Discussion Thread

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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,831 Guardian
    deenaps1 wrote: »
    Why not leave everything the way it is, but make synergies work and have a "synergy" node in the description as you would global or local. This will add a lot of strategy to the war and another level of complexity while meeting the goal of increasing difficulty, keeping diversity and adding a degree of teamwork in each group.

    I'm a little nervous about synergies, because those are not defensively balanced at all.

    One comment about my idea (which was more of a point of discussion than anything else) for revamping AW was that it was "overengineered" and it is true that however nice the idea might be, it wouldn't be something the developers could implement in a relatively short period of time: it would likely be a months-long project to accomplish. So I've been thinking about the *simplest* idea that would add diversity to defensive placements and could be implemented immediately. And the best idea I can come up with is weekly defensive buffs.

    The current model for AW is a four week season, and two week offseason. Each week there would be a set of node buffs that benefit some defenders and disadvantage others. No champion would become worthless permanently, but they could be less valuable in one particular week. For example suppose that in week one there was a global node that said all tech defenders would get a 25% attack penalty, and all cosmic attackers would get a 25% attack buff. In week two, it would be tech attackers that get the 25% attack buff and mutant defenders that would get the 25% attack penalty. That's a simplified example to illustrate the idea. In each week, some defenders would be better than others in that week, and ditto attackers. But that would change from week to week.

    Picking the right buffs/debuffs and the right cycle (you'd want to probably have a four week cycle during the season and a two week separate cycle during the off season) would require some thought, but it wouldn't be difficult to implement. And while this can make defenders that are worthless today worth something tomorrow, it cannot make a defender that is worth something today worthless tomorrow, because the buffs would change week to week. You could make IMIW potentially not worth placing in one week, but no one who ranks him up as a defender would lose all of his value, because he would still be super good in other weeks.

    The best way to handle this is to make the buffs get stronger and more complicated with tier, rather like the individual node buffs. But the idea would be to make them strong enough that in the right week even a mediocre defender could be great, and meanwhile bringing the right attack team on the right week would have significant advantages to counter the defense that was placed. This would encourage players to rank up more diverse attackers and defenders, and it would make alliance war fundamentally different from week to week. Ideally, you'd want representatives from every war tier suggesting and testing the buffs, which would take time. But implementing a (set of) global node buffs seems to be a relatively straight forward thing, because such things already exist in the game.
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    Echoing the comment of many other players, with the changes being made to the overall game play, some players who have spent the last nine months leveling up champions that are now essentially benched because of lack of usability in Alliance War. I understand that those same now less useful overall heroes can still be used for other aspects of game play, but the resources that were spent are now gone forever. Please Kabam, offer rank down tickets to the community to help address this huge change in game play.
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    NorthwestbrosefNorthwestbrosef Posts: 156
    ASV27 wrote: »
    ASV27 wrote: »
    like the shorter season but the price to complete the maps just quadrupled. No more free fights and harder nodes.

    So, with the exception of those Nodes on Challenger and Expert that we mentioned, we haven't made any other nodes harder. The new Nodes are meant to make things more difficult, but will also be visible from the get go, so Attackers are able to bring in champions to specifically counter whatever Champion they see there.

    Removing diversity is much more important than the new nodes. There's gonna be 10+ IMIWs and Dorms on every map. I get why you did it, but it just stinks for the players.

    I don't think anybody wants to place 10 Dormammu on a Map anymore... The Meta has shifted quite a bit since Diversity was introduced, and some of the former best Defenders have met their match now. Others may seem difficult right now, but Players have already started to find the counters needed for them! This will continue to happen in cycles, because that's just the nature of a game like this!

    If I had them, I would place the following champions every single war, regardless of diversity: Medusa, Spider-Man , M.O.D.O.K, Void, DORMAMMU. If everyone in my battlegroup did this, it would ensure that every person on the opposite team would need a Blade, ability accuracy reducer, and a Medusa counter. This is what the game is shifting to right? 100 champions, 10 that you actually use?
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    Goll3m_1Goll3m_1 Posts: 29

    ASV27 wrote: »
    ASV27 wrote: »
    like the shorter season but the price to complete the maps just quadrupled. No more free fights and harder nodes.

    So, with the exception of those Nodes on Challenger and Expert that we mentioned, we haven't made any other nodes harder. The new Nodes are meant to make things more difficult, but will also be visible from the get go, so Attackers are able to bring in champions to specifically counter whatever Champion they see there.

    Removing diversity is much more important than the new nodes. There's gonna be 10+ IMIWs and Dorms on every map. I get why you did it, but it just stinks for the players.

    I don't think anybody wants to place 10 Dormammu on a Map anymore... The Meta has shifted quite a bit since Diversity was introduced, and some of the former best Defenders have met their match now. Others may seem difficult right now, but Players have already started to find the counters needed for them! This will continue to happen in cycles, because that's just the nature of a game like this!

    If I had them, I would place the following champions every single war, regardless of diversity: Medusa, Spider-Man , M.O.D.O.K, Void, DORMAMMU. If everyone in my battlegroup did this, it would ensure that every person on the opposite team would need a Blade, ability accuracy reducer, and a Medusa counter. This is what the game is shifting to right? 100 champions, 10 that you actually use?

    I completely agree. Not looking forward to fighting the same 5 champs in war over and over again (Already doing this in AQ) but that's what's about to happen. For as much as people are figuring out how to counter Medusa, IMiW, Dorm, etc., they're still a far cry more difficult than Loki, WS, Abom, Electro, Storm, Colossus...and the list goes on and on. There's no incentive to diversify without being 'forced to do so'.
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    Goll3m_1Goll3m_1 Posts: 29
    Kabam needs a Player's Advisory Board or semi-dedicated Focus groups so that they can get feedback LONG before things escalate like this. A group of players who can sign NDA's and work with them during the ideation/development phases. Representation from multiple Tiers and Perspectives to help ensure the players' perspectives are really being listened to. I've no confidence at this point that any of this feedback ever gets heard...
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    ThespusThespus Posts: 45
    I think it’s okay to make nodes and maps tougher, I just ask that they consider the players and the pressure to use pots and revives when 29 other people are depending on you. Lower the number of items you can use per war, or cut the cost of those items in half. I’ll continue to buy units and offers and crystals and masteries.... but I will not pay units for war potions war after war. I think the obvious attempt to increase potion usage is more outrageous than the diversity issue was.
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    Jac094Jac094 Posts: 198
    Sorry your going to need to do a little more than just acknowledging that you were wrong. This movement shouldn’t end here. We need more assurances that future changes are giving a 2 month notice to allow players to adjust and prepare. We are going to need more up front communication and moderation that isn’t rude and abrasive

    Hey there,

    In regards to your comment about timelines on notice for changes, those are always going to differ depending on what exactly we're referring to. On major changes like this, we definitely want to work on giving you guys more notice, and more context, so that we can have discussions well in advance. But when it comes to minor changes (bug fixes, node updates, etc.), it's a lot harder to give an exact timeline, because development timelines can be very aggressive on a game like ours. That doesn't mean we can't give more general information (Hey guys, we're working on some Node updates for the next season of Alliance Wars, etc.), and then give more specific information as we get closer to the date.

    We can't promise an exact timeline that will be able to be applied to every single update and change, but do understand why you would want this, and will work to give you all as much notice as possible!

    Still new minibosses are damn unfair.
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    RJ03RJ03 Posts: 67
    Thespus wrote: »
    I think it’s okay to make nodes and maps tougher, I just ask that they consider the players and the pressure to use pots and revives when 29 other people are depending on you. Lower the number of items you can use per war, or cut the cost of those items in half. I’ll continue to buy units and offers and crystals and masteries.... but I will not pay units for war potions war after war. I think the obvious attempt to increase potion usage is more outrageous than the diversity issue was.

    I agree... cut of AW potions price, reduce AW item use, or simple just remove at all..
    If you make map harder = rewards should be better too!!!
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    TensioTensio Posts: 173
    So summarizing: you keep diversity but increase difficulty for higher alliances without increasing rewards or decreasing the cost of healths and revives. Seriously people do you think that this is enough?
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    FixxxFixxx Posts: 234
    sbb75 wrote: »
    Sooo does bringing back Diversity make up for 5 more mini bosses? And one with Buffet that is based on inflated health... and im still bringing 3 champs and get less rewards.

    Good strategy. Throw out a bunch of unwanted and unpopular changes. Have everyone unite against the worst change.. Then don’t do that 1 bad change and say you love your customers...
    Kabam Meta is changing

    Yes, this is exactly what happened. They threw an inedible feast and simply removed the one we said was the smelliest to show they listen when we pointed it out. Meanwhile, the rest of the vile buffet remains, befouling the air
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    AlexVanDamme81AlexVanDamme81 Posts: 83
    @Kabam Miike

    You not “ask” if erase diversity is worth. You “announced” Kabam will nerf diversity in wars.
    People, in those 2 days, try to fix their rooster for a new season “whitout diversity”.
    Now, you changed idea.
    And you don’t wanna give us some rank down tickets??? That’s ridiculous and fraudulent.
    People aren’t plenty of TA2 or Tb5!
    You changing mystic dispersion, you increase the difficult of the map, you left diversity and add again diversity and community must shut up???
    Is an offense for us!
    “At minimum” you MUST give us some RDT! YOU MUST!
    People need to fix their roosters for be able to be competitive in war season!

    And, again, no news for Aq! Aq is BORING and senseless from MONTHS!

    What you doing??? Veterans players are tired of those monthly micro events for a ridiculous quantity of red fragments or ta2!

    Is time to make something more for who feed you! 😡
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    marcusbluemarcusblue Posts: 12
    I think their revenue on alliance war are decreasing due to too many alliances are able to complete 100% war without spending many revive, by increasing the difficulties of the war can make us unable to completely explore war 100% and if any alliance want to win the war, they have to spend, spend and spend, this is their ultimate intention. Revenue first, player last
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    Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Posts: 289 ★★
    so a few things that could help aw

    @DNA said it last time when u guys announces diversity that u should also try to have multiple maps and have them run randomly

    personally I think this was a good idea the meta has not change a in a way u guys over at kabam would think if u want to push better diversity then having maps that complement different things would be a good start

    also what ever happened to when u deleate commentcoments u would tell the user why
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    Scmex21Scmex21 Posts: 85
    We really need a hall of heal event Kabam Miike.. it helps
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    EhDubbEhDubb Posts: 10
    4 week war = half normal rewards.
    2 weeks off in between.
    Over the course of a Longer period of time we get significantly less rewards.
    Add in to it the new mini bosses and harder nodes, less completion rewards due to more difficult maps and that equals every one of us getting the short end of the stick. But yay, diversity lives on! Don’t be fooled, this still sucks.
    I’m not spending a cent on AW.
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    TensioTensio Posts: 173
    Fixxx wrote: »
    sbb75 wrote: »
    Sooo does bringing back Diversity make up for 5 more mini bosses? And one with Buffet that is based on inflated health... and im still bringing 3 champs and get less rewards.

    Good strategy. Throw out a bunch of unwanted and unpopular changes. Have everyone unite against the worst change.. Then don’t do that 1 bad change and say you love your customers...
    Kabam Meta is changing

    Yes, this is exactly what happened. They threw an inedible feast and simply removed the one we said was the smelliest to show they listen when we pointed it out. Meanwhile, the rest of the vile buffet remains, befouling the air

    Kabam didn't listen the community. Its not all about diversity, They have added a new 5 mini bosses that will make us spend more and for the same rewards? Three options:

    1. Remove new buffs
    2. Cut by half the price of healths and revives
    3. Increase rewards

    If they will earn more money, at least give the player base better rewards.
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    Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    marcusblue wrote: »
    I think their revenue on alliance war are decreasing due to too many alliances are able to complete 100% war without spending many revive, by increasing the difficulties of the war can make us unable to completely explore war 100% and if any alliance want to win the war, they have to spend, spend and spend, this is their ultimate intention. Revenue first, player last

    The answer to that is to release more rank up materials, increase rates on crystal drops for features and to increase 6* shards.

    The game becomes more balanced the more top ranked defenders there are. Instead of trying to make a T2a worth $500 they should be giving us faster schedules to rank defensive players if they want to increase revenues in AW.
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    RJ03RJ03 Posts: 67
    Three options:

    1. Remove new buffs
    2. Cut by half the price of healths and revives
    3. Increase rewards
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    BrainimpacterBrainimpacter Posts: 578 ★★★
    edited June 2018
    That they think its about diversity and reinstating it will calm people down, proves how much out of touch the decision makers are with the community, this has be bubbling for a while, AW changes just happen to be the point where people have had enough, It is just one of many decisions that led to the uproar.
    Nerfing champs "accidently" and not fixing them, being lenient with Whales that are piloting, colluding and cheating which affects every other alliance playing legit, introducing way OP defenders for the purpose of just making people spend, these are a few other things that people are mad about that have all happened in the last month or two.

    It just seems like all recent decisions have been made for the sole purpose to make money and no thought has been put into the players enjoyment of the game, which should be the number one priority because if people are enjoying it they are more likely to use real money to enhance their enjoyment even further
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    Animejay70Animejay70 Posts: 400 ★★★
    Hey everybody,

    We've just posted an update to our plans for Alliance Wars Season 3 here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/77579/alliance-wars-season-3-an-update/

    Thank you all for all the feedback you gave us, as well as your patience today as we worked to get this together for you.

    you still have increased difficulty with more mini bosses and haven't adjusted rewards!

    How can you guys be so stupid?
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