It's not a bug, it's just maths. Three low-PI 1/25 heroes won't cut it in a Featured or Catalyst arena. It used to, but it doesn't any more - this is the new normal; and it's not going to change back.
If these death matches forces players to rank up five stars, then make rank up materials more accessible read: affordable, available like t1a. I am more than willing to rank up my five stars to r2 if this is the case. I just used up the 3 t1a from the recent alpha arena. Hehe
It is unthinkable that a 5* maxed at level 1 should trigger a death match. WHich seems to be tailored exactly on letting you lose regardless. In my case, 3 science champs with debuffs, matching 2 r5 and 1 r4 with maxed WP, ending up in regening 120 x tic while taking barely 100 dmg per hit.
Can we have this trash fixed? We should NOT be forced to waste resources just to do one streak of arena, and this doesn't really make sense. @Kabam Miike
When you have all 3 champs below 3000 it triggers a death match... need to all be above 3000 or average above 3000. Why shouldn’t your super low pi champs trigger a death match again? For Low prestige champs like rhino and ant man unduped you’ll need to take them to rank 2 or use higher prestige champs with them. Not gonna change so don’t whine about it. Either rank 2 the low ones, use higher prestige with the low ones, or don’t use em. 6* and rank 5 5* are raising prestige so the minimum for not triggering death match is raising also. Deal with it, don’t use the champs or don’t play arena.
Just run a R2 with 2 R1s, I haven't had a problem that way. Every one of these death match screenshots has a R1 Rhino in it, you need to play smarter now to avoid these situations. I tried a R2 Colossus (about the lowest PI R2 you can get) with my bottom 2 R1s, including Rhino, and I still didn't get a death match.
Just let people play and be rewarded we're spending time and money but the arena is no longer fun when your fighting mini bosses for no reason this is the product kabam puts it's only worth it until it's not
It is unthinkable that a 5* maxed at level 1 should trigger a death match. WHich seems to be tailored exactly on letting you lose regardless. In my case, 3 science champs with debuffs, matching 2 r5 and 1 r4 with maxed WP, ending up in regening 120 x tic while taking barely 100 dmg per hit.
Can we have this trash fixed? We should NOT be forced to waste resources just to do one streak of arena, and this doesn't really make sense. @Kabam Miike
Yeah but what was your streak at? Once you get to at least 25 matches, you can bring 1/25 5* champs.
I play the 4/5 arena.
After streak 18 I cannot use three champs with a combined total of less than 11,000. It doesn’t matter who the champs are or what streak after 18. It doesn’t matter their rank level. If those three numbers under their head add up to less than 11k, if they are 10,999 it triggers a death squad.
Streak isn’t accomplished until after match 20 has completed.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
I did the latest yellowjacket arena, got hard matches almost all the time, but they were reasonable for what I had. I just got used to it. Of course, I was using high teams only. Mostly 5 and 6 stars. So even if they are hard matches, they are beatable. Didn't had issues using my four stars, but I tend to use my rank 5's mostly.
Sometimes I am not even sure how the AI determines a match is harder. I know it is related to class disadvantage and rating, but I would pick a hard match and find out that there was nothing hard about it, so perhaps someone knows how that works?
I did the latest yellowjacket arena, got hard matches almost all the time, but they were reasonable for what I had. I just got used to it. Of course, I was using high teams only. Mostly 5 and 6 stars. So even if they are hard matches, they are beatable. Didn't had issues using my four stars, but I tend to use my rank 5's mostly.
Sometimes I am not even sure how the AI determines a match is harder. I know it is related to class disadvantage and rating, but I would pick a hard match and find out that there was nothing hard about it, so perhaps someone knows how that works?
The "hard" "medium" and "easy" tags I believe refer to the AI profile that is selected for that match, it is not a judgment on the combined PI of the champions in the team. I've had lots of matches in which the top team was "hard" and the middle team with higher PI was "medium."
I did the latest yellowjacket arena, got hard matches almost all the time, but they were reasonable for what I had. I just got used to it. Of course, I was using high teams only. Mostly 5 and 6 stars. So even if they are hard matches, they are beatable. Didn't had issues using my four stars, but I tend to use my rank 5's mostly.
Sometimes I am not even sure how the AI determines a match is harder. I know it is related to class disadvantage and rating, but I would pick a hard match and find out that there was nothing hard about it, so perhaps someone knows how that works?
The "hard" "medium" and "easy" tags I believe refer to the AI profile that is selected for that match, it is not a judgment on the combined PI of the champions in the team. I've had lots of matches in which the top team was "hard" and the middle team with higher PI was "medium."
Streak isn’t accomplished until after match 20 has completed.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
As I've continued to study this, I don't think there is a "formula" in the sense many players think. I think there is a system that takes inputs and calculates the range of PI for the next fight, and I've become increasingly convinced that the system has a memory. In other words, which fights you select to fight now have an effect on the fights you get later. I've noticed, for example, that when I pick the highest fight in the set of three consistently, it is much more likely that a lower team will draw the death match. But when I consistently fight the top (easiest) match consistently, not only do I not draw the death match as often (if at all) but the teams I pull when my own attack team drops to around 9k is even lower.
In other words, if I keep fighting the strongest team in the set, then when I get down around 9k I seem to draw a death match more often. If I usually fight the easy team but sometimes fight the middle team, when my attack team drops to around 9k I seem to be fighting teams also around 9-10k. If I always fight the easy team, by the time my attack team reachs 9k I seem to be fighting teams that are 8k or even lower, as if I haven't just avoided death matches, I'm actually pulling very weak fights instead.
I haven't been keeping written records or anything, I've just been experimenting with the fights. So far this *seems* to be a trend.
Streak isn’t accomplished until after match 20 has completed.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
As I've continued to study this, I don't think there is a "formula" in the sense many players think. I think there is a system that takes inputs and calculates the range of PI for the next fight, and I've become increasingly convinced that the system has a memory. In other words, which fights you select to fight now have an effect on the fights you get later. I've noticed, for example, that when I pick the highest fight in the set of three consistently, it is much more likely that a lower team will draw the death match. But when I consistently fight the top (easiest) match consistently, not only do I not draw the death match as often (if at all) but the teams I pull when my own attack team drops to around 9k is even lower.
In other words, if I keep fighting the strongest team in the set, then when I get down around 9k I seem to draw a death match more often. If I usually fight the easy team but sometimes fight the middle team, when my attack team drops to around 9k I seem to be fighting teams also around 9-10k. If I always fight the easy team, by the time my attack team reachs 9k I seem to be fighting teams that are 8k or even lower, as if I haven't just avoided death matches, I'm actually pulling very weak fights instead.
I haven't been keeping written records or anything, I've just been experimenting with the fights. So far this *seems* to be a trend.
This could be the reason then. Because sometimes you only get hard teams, you cannot pick anything else but "hard". In my case, going there with a full team of six stars will mostly guarantee hard teams in that arena. But there is another turn on this plot.
On the yellowjacket arena, I was getting almost always the same players to fight against, with the same team. When the arena was over, those players were close to me in the top 30. So I am going to assume that the AI can only show you teams from a pool of active players in the arena. Because there were issues with the iPhones this weekend, perhaps there were less players, and only harder teams. So we wouldn't encounter this lack of easy teams under normal circumstances.
This would mean that this is not a bug, but a consequence of the other problems going on.
Thoughts?
It's not simply 1/25 champs, but rather low-end, unduped 1/25 champs that are causing the issue (i.e.the 10k minimum "rule"). I face the same issue in the 4* basic arena with my 3/30 champs which is why I stopped using them altogether. Champs like OG Capt America, Rhino, Antman, and Juggy significantly increase the risk of a death match. I don't have that luxury with 5* champs simply because I don't have as many and the resources are harder to build up.
The part that I find frustrating is that grinding the points for these arenas is such a long-tedious slog and Kabam have made it so that we are forced to either rank up those low-end champs (who would otherwise never be used), or to burn units to revive our higher champs. Either case forces us to either spend more time or currency (or real money) on the game.
An underlying reason I suspect death matches exist is that Kabam knows their servers cannot handle a lot of arena helps, and knowing that we aren't going to (or can't) rank up all of our champs, they built in this safeguard to reduce the load. Essentially make it a "user problem" instead of a supplier one with the added benefit of potentially increased revenue.
In the 3* Featured arena, I have almost 70x 3* champs ranked up to 4/40. If I'm not getting helps quickly, by the end of the run the lag can get insanely bad (even before 19.0 issues).
IMO, a good middle ground would be to eliminate both death matches and the help system. If Kabam allows 4 & 5* champs into an arena, then they should truly allow all versions of those champs regardless of PI. If I want to grind a 5* Featured with my R1 4* champs, then I should be able to even if that means I'm only earning 2k points at a time. The "penalty" (that already exists) is the scaled-down points I would get for it.
You are not doing the arena correctly bro. If you care to use R1 5*, you have to mix matches, like pair them with 5\50 4*s. For once, this is on you, not Kabam.
You are not doing the arena correctly bro. If you care to use R1 5*, you have to mix matches, like pair them with 5\50 4*s. For once, this is on you, not Kabam.
While I do not agree completely... having an infinite streak is not a feature Kabam promised us... so I wouldn't really blame them for it. I have been using my rank 1 five stars with no problems.
I started getting DM after the update. People still had 2 or 3 5/65 before the update but i never got any DM before.
Yes, but I think most people were grinding the 4* featured arena, for the pym particles. So that could explain that the AI has a smaller pool to choose from.
You are not doing the arena correctly bro. If you care to use R1 5*, you have to mix matches, like pair them with 5\50 4*s. For once, this is on you, not Kabam.
I've gone the last three cycles without a death match using 1/25s all the way down. I am only taking one additional precaution, I am mixing up the last teams so that I am using 2700s and 2800s with a pair of 3400s so that I do not use a team where every member is below 3000. When I do that, even teams of all 1/25s have not yet drawn a death match when I've been using the strategy of only selecting the top team in the group of three choices.
The strategy you've mentioned is an alternate version of the tactic, but I haven't found it necessary to ever mix 5*s with 4*s in my experiments.
Streak isn’t accomplished until after match 20 has completed.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
As I've continued to study this, I don't think there is a "formula" in the sense many players think. I think there is a system that takes inputs and calculates the range of PI for the next fight, and I've become increasingly convinced that the system has a memory. In other words, which fights you select to fight now have an effect on the fights you get later. I've noticed, for example, that when I pick the highest fight in the set of three consistently, it is much more likely that a lower team will draw the death match. But when I consistently fight the top (easiest) match consistently, not only do I not draw the death match as often (if at all) but the teams I pull when my own attack team drops to around 9k is even lower.
In other words, if I keep fighting the strongest team in the set, then when I get down around 9k I seem to draw a death match more often. If I usually fight the easy team but sometimes fight the middle team, when my attack team drops to around 9k I seem to be fighting teams also around 9-10k. If I always fight the easy team, by the time my attack team reachs 9k I seem to be fighting teams that are 8k or even lower, as if I haven't just avoided death matches, I'm actually pulling very weak fights instead.
I haven't been keeping written records or anything, I've just been experimenting with the fights. So far this *seems* to be a trend.
This could be the reason then. Because sometimes you only get hard teams, you cannot pick anything else but "hard". In my case, going there with a full team of six stars will mostly guarantee hard teams in that arena. But there is another turn on this plot.
On the yellowjacket arena, I was getting almost always the same players to fight against, with the same team. When the arena was over, those players were close to me in the top 30. So I am going to assume that the AI can only show you teams from a pool of active players in the arena. Because there were issues with the iPhones this weekend, perhaps there were less players, and only harder teams. So we wouldn't encounter this lack of easy teams under normal circumstances.
This would mean that this is not a bug, but a consequence of the other problems going on.
Thoughts?
Possible in general, but the death matches seem to have been appearing since long before the overheating problems became prevalent. However, which players are using which teams in the arena may have some influence. Consider how often "sandbag" teams show up in the arena on the computer side. I doubt the computer believes in sandbagging. Also, and this is anecdotal, but I used to see a lot of sandbag-like teams in the old days, but they became increasingly rare after the arenas were updated and the 5* featured was added. But recently, meaning in the last two months, I think I've seen them more often.
It is possible that I'm seeing them more often because the computer is using them more often because the players are using them more often, because players are less confident in infinite streak when their teams get lower. Which would mean the teams we use influence the teams the computer selects.
Streak isn’t accomplished until after match 20 has completed.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
As I've continued to study this, I don't think there is a "formula" in the sense many players think. I think there is a system that takes inputs and calculates the range of PI for the next fight, and I've become increasingly convinced that the system has a memory. In other words, which fights you select to fight now have an effect on the fights you get later. I've noticed, for example, that when I pick the highest fight in the set of three consistently, it is much more likely that a lower team will draw the death match. But when I consistently fight the top (easiest) match consistently, not only do I not draw the death match as often (if at all) but the teams I pull when my own attack team drops to around 9k is even lower.
In other words, if I keep fighting the strongest team in the set, then when I get down around 9k I seem to draw a death match more often. If I usually fight the easy team but sometimes fight the middle team, when my attack team drops to around 9k I seem to be fighting teams also around 9-10k. If I always fight the easy team, by the time my attack team reachs 9k I seem to be fighting teams that are 8k or even lower, as if I haven't just avoided death matches, I'm actually pulling very weak fights instead.
I haven't been keeping written records or anything, I've just been experimenting with the fights. So far this *seems* to be a trend.
This could be the reason then. Because sometimes you only get hard teams, you cannot pick anything else but "hard". In my case, going there with a full team of six stars will mostly guarantee hard teams in that arena. But there is another turn on this plot.
On the yellowjacket arena, I was getting almost always the same players to fight against, with the same team. When the arena was over, those players were close to me in the top 30. So I am going to assume that the AI can only show you teams from a pool of active players in the arena. Because there were issues with the iPhones this weekend, perhaps there were less players, and only harder teams. So we wouldn't encounter this lack of easy teams under normal circumstances.
This would mean that this is not a bug, but a consequence of the other problems going on.
Thoughts?
Possible in general, but the death matches seem to have been appearing since long before the overheating problems became prevalent. However, which players are using which teams in the arena may have some influence. Consider how often "sandbag" teams show up in the arena on the computer side. I doubt the computer believes in sandbagging. Also, and this is anecdotal, but I used to see a lot of sandbag-like teams in the old days, but they became increasingly rare after the arenas were updated and the 5* featured was added. But recently, meaning in the last two months, I think I've seen them more often.
It is possible that I'm seeing them more often because the computer is using them more often because the players are using them more often, because players are less confident in infinite streak when their teams get lower. Which would mean the teams we use influence the teams the computer selects.
Yes, but I do think that although it is not a bug... it should be fixed in this case. Because some arenas, like Alpha Catalyst, allow you to use 3-stars. And it is a nice opportunity to use those arena boosts.
However, I got punished by using maxed 3 stars. 4/40 3 stars were always in the range of champions we were able to use in a streak. I suppose players could still use 1, 2 and 3 stars to do sandbagging, but it wouldn't make sense to allow 3 stars for only 11 matches.
Plus as long as you can bait out speacials most death matches are easily winnable
That is true. Most of the time, I can bait the specials and rack up some sweet points for the win. Sometimes, for whatever reason, an opponent just will not use that special at all, and then I get one shot by the L3.
Are these death matches player specific? For example, if a player only has a roster size of 100k, would they have the same chances of running into a death match as someone with a 500k roster? Or is it based on Prestige? Once you break 5k prestige, then you're bumped up into a higher tier?
The issue I'm seeing is that Kabam is trying to control how we rank up our rosters. They want us to collect as many champs as we can and rank them all up. They don't want us focusing on specific teams, but rather trying to emphasize the use of every champ in our roster.
But then they limit the resources to do it, so the player base is forced to be selective with who we rank up. As a consequence, we're not able to upgrade every champ we receive, so we use who we have.
Putting this all together, it seems that Kabam wants us to rank up our teams uniformly. Do not take a champ to 4/40 until all of your other champs are at 3/30. They don't appear to want us to have R5 and R1 at the same time. Do not make our best better, but instead focus on the weakest link first.
I don't consider myself an intense arena grinder as in I don't go for the champs often it is very rare that I do go for one. With that said I hit every milestone in the 4* feature, 4* basic and 5* feature arenas for milestones. I have ran into many death matches before but after running multiple test and watching not only which champs I use but what the total PI is I have noticed that once I reach the infinite streak, if I put in 3 champs and their total PI is less than 1200 I get a death match. If I want to run every 4* in my roster along with every 5* what I do is the following; I run all my 5*s together so they come back at similar time like most grinders do but I throw in my lowest r1 5* (rhino) and 2 r2s and try put him with a synergy team if possible in my case I put him with hood and puniser that way all 3 champs get a PI increase from the synergy and I just work my way up from my roster using my 5*s. With my 4*s I put my 2 lowest r3 4*s with a max r5 4* and so on and avoid death matches that way. If you having issue with maintaining the streak and want better clarity or have questions hit me up on line and Ill do my best to make better sense.
Comments
It happens to us all sooner or later:
Oops. Back to a multiplier of 1 for me!
When you have all 3 champs below 3000 it triggers a death match... need to all be above 3000 or average above 3000. Why shouldn’t your super low pi champs trigger a death match again? For Low prestige champs like rhino and ant man unduped you’ll need to take them to rank 2 or use higher prestige champs with them. Not gonna change so don’t whine about it. Either rank 2 the low ones, use higher prestige with the low ones, or don’t use em. 6* and rank 5 5* are raising prestige so the minimum for not triggering death match is raising also. Deal with it, don’t use the champs or don’t play arena.
I play the 4/5 arena.
After streak 18 I cannot use three champs with a combined total of less than 11,000. It doesn’t matter who the champs are or what streak after 18. It doesn’t matter their rank level. If those three numbers under their head add up to less than 11k, if they are 10,999 it triggers a death squad.
That’s how it is for me at least.
There are also more R5 champs now so the numbers have shifted a little. The formula is user provided and based in the availability of champs at the time. It’s moving higher and higher, little by little though.
Sometimes I am not even sure how the AI determines a match is harder. I know it is related to class disadvantage and rating, but I would pick a hard match and find out that there was nothing hard about it, so perhaps someone knows how that works?
The "hard" "medium" and "easy" tags I believe refer to the AI profile that is selected for that match, it is not a judgment on the combined PI of the champions in the team. I've had lots of matches in which the top team was "hard" and the middle team with higher PI was "medium."
Any guesses on how it determines the profile?
As I've continued to study this, I don't think there is a "formula" in the sense many players think. I think there is a system that takes inputs and calculates the range of PI for the next fight, and I've become increasingly convinced that the system has a memory. In other words, which fights you select to fight now have an effect on the fights you get later. I've noticed, for example, that when I pick the highest fight in the set of three consistently, it is much more likely that a lower team will draw the death match. But when I consistently fight the top (easiest) match consistently, not only do I not draw the death match as often (if at all) but the teams I pull when my own attack team drops to around 9k is even lower.
In other words, if I keep fighting the strongest team in the set, then when I get down around 9k I seem to draw a death match more often. If I usually fight the easy team but sometimes fight the middle team, when my attack team drops to around 9k I seem to be fighting teams also around 9-10k. If I always fight the easy team, by the time my attack team reachs 9k I seem to be fighting teams that are 8k or even lower, as if I haven't just avoided death matches, I'm actually pulling very weak fights instead.
I haven't been keeping written records or anything, I've just been experimenting with the fights. So far this *seems* to be a trend.
This could be the reason then. Because sometimes you only get hard teams, you cannot pick anything else but "hard". In my case, going there with a full team of six stars will mostly guarantee hard teams in that arena. But there is another turn on this plot.
On the yellowjacket arena, I was getting almost always the same players to fight against, with the same team. When the arena was over, those players were close to me in the top 30. So I am going to assume that the AI can only show you teams from a pool of active players in the arena. Because there were issues with the iPhones this weekend, perhaps there were less players, and only harder teams. So we wouldn't encounter this lack of easy teams under normal circumstances.
This would mean that this is not a bug, but a consequence of the other problems going on.
Thoughts?
The part that I find frustrating is that grinding the points for these arenas is such a long-tedious slog and Kabam have made it so that we are forced to either rank up those low-end champs (who would otherwise never be used), or to burn units to revive our higher champs. Either case forces us to either spend more time or currency (or real money) on the game.
An underlying reason I suspect death matches exist is that Kabam knows their servers cannot handle a lot of arena helps, and knowing that we aren't going to (or can't) rank up all of our champs, they built in this safeguard to reduce the load. Essentially make it a "user problem" instead of a supplier one with the added benefit of potentially increased revenue.
In the 3* Featured arena, I have almost 70x 3* champs ranked up to 4/40. If I'm not getting helps quickly, by the end of the run the lag can get insanely bad (even before 19.0 issues).
IMO, a good middle ground would be to eliminate both death matches and the help system. If Kabam allows 4 & 5* champs into an arena, then they should truly allow all versions of those champs regardless of PI. If I want to grind a 5* Featured with my R1 4* champs, then I should be able to even if that means I'm only earning 2k points at a time. The "penalty" (that already exists) is the scaled-down points I would get for it.
While I do not agree completely... having an infinite streak is not a feature Kabam promised us... so I wouldn't really blame them for it. I have been using my rank 1 five stars with no problems.
I got it on the last arena.
Yes, but I think most people were grinding the 4* featured arena, for the pym particles. So that could explain that the AI has a smaller pool to choose from.
Many people got the july 4th rank up deal
I've gone the last three cycles without a death match using 1/25s all the way down. I am only taking one additional precaution, I am mixing up the last teams so that I am using 2700s and 2800s with a pair of 3400s so that I do not use a team where every member is below 3000. When I do that, even teams of all 1/25s have not yet drawn a death match when I've been using the strategy of only selecting the top team in the group of three choices.
The strategy you've mentioned is an alternate version of the tactic, but I haven't found it necessary to ever mix 5*s with 4*s in my experiments.
Possible in general, but the death matches seem to have been appearing since long before the overheating problems became prevalent. However, which players are using which teams in the arena may have some influence. Consider how often "sandbag" teams show up in the arena on the computer side. I doubt the computer believes in sandbagging. Also, and this is anecdotal, but I used to see a lot of sandbag-like teams in the old days, but they became increasingly rare after the arenas were updated and the 5* featured was added. But recently, meaning in the last two months, I think I've seen them more often.
It is possible that I'm seeing them more often because the computer is using them more often because the players are using them more often, because players are less confident in infinite streak when their teams get lower. Which would mean the teams we use influence the teams the computer selects.
Yes, but I do think that although it is not a bug... it should be fixed in this case. Because some arenas, like Alpha Catalyst, allow you to use 3-stars. And it is a nice opportunity to use those arena boosts.
However, I got punished by using maxed 3 stars. 4/40 3 stars were always in the range of champions we were able to use in a streak. I suppose players could still use 1, 2 and 3 stars to do sandbagging, but it wouldn't make sense to allow 3 stars for only 11 matches.
That is true. Most of the time, I can bait the specials and rack up some sweet points for the win. Sometimes, for whatever reason, an opponent just will not use that special at all, and then I get one shot by the L3.
The issue I'm seeing is that Kabam is trying to control how we rank up our rosters. They want us to collect as many champs as we can and rank them all up. They don't want us focusing on specific teams, but rather trying to emphasize the use of every champ in our roster.
But then they limit the resources to do it, so the player base is forced to be selective with who we rank up. As a consequence, we're not able to upgrade every champ we receive, so we use who we have.
Putting this all together, it seems that Kabam wants us to rank up our teams uniformly. Do not take a champ to 4/40 until all of your other champs are at 3/30. They don't appear to want us to have R5 and R1 at the same time. Do not make our best better, but instead focus on the weakest link first.
line ID: Angelocrtz