I’m trying my best. And judging by ur post I think you agree that master teir players have little interest in 5* shards. Why? Because with the 5* arenas they can have whichever champion they want immediately upon release. Not because they are chasing t5b.
5* champions should be obtained through 5* crystals.
Players can effectively generate as many 5* champions as they was via FGMC.
And the can manipulate which ever champions they want via Arena.
@NickMerks Appreciate the follow up. I'm gonna take a guess and say that collecting every 5* champion is much less important than achieving five or more 5* champions with a max signature ability. Having all 5* champions doesn't win your alliance top AQ rewards, you just need five of them with a max signature ability to do that. All the FGMCs in the game won't accomplish that, the only way to work towards that goal is placing top 30 in the four alliance events.
Kabam hasn't received enough credit for their peak milestones update. Players who spend 50-100K+ a year on MCOC have dominated most aspects of the game since before I started playing. The new peak milestones gives F2P players a chance to catch up with the game's top AQ rewards, which in turn lets them catch up in AW Seasons because top AQ rewards give T2AC shards which mean more 4/55+ defenders.
Returning to your OP's point, you're trying to say that obtaining all of the MCOC's champions is the goal of the MCOC? If so I can see why you would say that, although IMO the goal of MCOC is to earn the game's best rewards. 5* arena has little impact on that.
[quote="DNA3000;c-507221I'm quite certain COW did not invent player disappointment. Individual players have been complaining about being disappointed about one particular part of the game or another since forever. Vastly more people have been complaining about being disappointed about being unable to get the champion they want or even have a reasonable chance at them than I can recall being disappointed in actually being able to get them all or seeing someone else spend their way to getting them all.
As far as I'm concerned, Crystal Opening Whale is subsidizing Brian Grant, and it all evens out. ContestChampion can only exist in the same world as COW. WIthout the big spenders buying their way to the top, or sometimes even just the middle, there are no free to play players of any kind.
To get more technical, all games like this have progress curves and they have resource earning curves. I'm not really in a position at the moment to grind for the 5* featured (unless it is Ant Man or similarly low scoring champ) but players like me benefit all the same: far more players are getting 2000 or 1000 5* shards out of that arena, and we are only getting those second tier and third tier rewards because the juicy carrot at the top is in a sense counter-weighting them. The 5* featured is encouraging players to engage, to grind, and to spend. And the 200 5* featured champion rewards in a technical design sense subsidizes the 5* shards that several thousand more players get.
The game was fine before. But in this particular area, it is also fine now. Maybe it is causing a problem for some of the players that are acquiring all of the top champions quickly and getting bored. But I'm quite certain that there are only a tiny group of players that could be having that problem, and only a tiny fraction of them are actually having that problem, and it is a very small price to pay for the game to be giving much better champion earning opportunities for everyone else.
If Elon Musk offered to buy the game from Netmarble and he said he was going to keep it free to play forever, and he was going to cut the costs of all unit packages in half for everyone, but in exchange he wanted all of the champions in the game for himself to play, I doubt if many players would vote against that purchase. It would be a ridiculously small price to pay for the game to be cheaper for everyone else to play. That is exactly what I see when I see the Crystal Opening Whale's videos. I'm not at all disappointed. I see one person helping to make the game cheaper for everyone else. Collectively, that's the economic effect of the whales. We just don't see it, because we cannot visualize how expensive the game would be without them: it has never existed without them.
What's more, COW and players like him spend an awful lot for relatively little return on that investment comparatively speaking. He's probably spending dozens if not hundreds of times more than me, but he isn't getting dozens of times more gameplay. When players complain about the top end offers having low value, I can only shake my head and wonder why they can't see how much that actually benefits the rest of the players that don't spend much or anything. I can't convince anyone that's a good idea, I can only take solace in the fact that no amount of player complaints will change it, fortunately for 99% of the player population whether they know it or not.[/quote]
DNA, I really liked your post. made me think a bit. And I really wasn't trying to call out COW. I enjoy his content as well. But from the perspective of making a "good game" 5* arena and Unlimited supply of fgmc are issues.
but from a business perspective I'm not sure. you had mentioned "resource earning curves" I have no idea. but I would assume these companies were already making large amounts of money before these features we added to the game.
you had mentioned "resource earning curves" I have no idea. but I would assume these companies were already making large amounts of money before these features we added to the game.
It isn't exactly a money issue per se, although in any F2P game ultimately everything is at least indirectly tied to monetization. It is more a situation where when a game developer makes an activity like this in a game like this, they are usually thinking about the rewards in terms of "well, about this many people will get the top reward, then this many will get the second best reward, and a few more will get the third best reward" etc. The rewards are designed from the top downward, not from the bottom up, at least for the important stuff.
When the game devs make an activity with a really juicy reward, they often limit it in some fashion to limit how much of it gets out there. Thus, the 200 player limit for the 5* featured champion, rather than a percentage range. They know that only a very limited number of players will go for it, so they can make it a very valuable reward (which the 5* featured generally is). They can then give out proportionately lower rewards as consolation prizes for the players who don't make it, thus the 2000 5* fragments and the 1000 5* fragments, both of which are very valuable rewards for most players. Outside of the very top players, those rewards are enabling a large percentage of the arena grinders to be earning as much as one 5* champion a week or more, which would have been an almost unthinkable earning rate just one year ago. Those rewards take significant (but not ludicrous) effort to get. The devs feel comfortable putting those rewards there because they believe the 5* featured arena is going to attract enough attention that those rewards won't be easy to get.
In other words, the devs have a rough idea that the top 1% of players will tend to get this much rewards, and the top 10% will get somewhat less, and the next 20% will get somewhat less than that, and the rewards in the game tend to be designed with this in mind. The larger the rewards are for the top 1%, the larger the rewards are for the next 10% below them because the rising tide lifts all the boats. People at the very very very top, like you seem to be, are running into the ceiling because the tide that is lifting most people quite a bit is lifting you even higher. But for most people, that rising tide is a huge benefit. And that ceiling is there in part to make it easier for the devs to lift most players upward without lifting the top 1% into outer space. At some point, you reach diminishing returns, deliberately so that the very top don't get too far ahead of everyone else.
@DNA3000 I agree with you 100%. and I'm defiantly feeling that celling brother. your wave analogy made perfect sense. I didn't realize it was pushing up the middle teir players as you described. and I can see a few are angry.
but before game had a sense of mysticism to it. a "secret sauce" I would call it.
But that's gone now. Now its just pay me, and its yours.
Any champion you want, just pay me for it and you can have it now.
you don't actually have to play the game anymore. just pay.
in the past you would be counting your shards. calculating how many shards you would have by the time your champion was coming to the crystal. that's how the game was made to be played imo.
its almost like if you were taking a girl on a date, would you want her to say pay me $100 now.
OR
would you want her to show some self respect and not make it so damn easy.
in the past you would be counting your shards. calculating how many shards you would have by the time your champion was coming to the crystal. that's how the game was made to be played imo.
It was, and that particular metagaming has changed. But it has only changed into what you describe for a very tiny amount of players. For a far larger number of players, that particular metagame has changed into the "weekly 5* let see what we get" game. There's even a slow gradual build up to the next 6* crystal, which in many ways has a similar feel to the prior 5* featured crystal. For a lot of players, 6* champions are a bigger game-changing option than the 5* featured used to be. You used to have a one in five chance to pull that featured, and even then for many featured champions you then needed to awaken it somehow with awakening gem or second pull, but most importantly you then had to upgrade it to 4/55 which requires T2 alpha. A 3/45 5* featured champ is only marginally better than its 5/50 cousin.
But a 6* champion can be immediately upgraded to essentially 4/55-tier power with just gold and ISO, which almost any player can accumulate in a reasonable amount of time if they aren't overflowing with it now. Saving for a 6* champion is in that respect even better than the old 5* featured crystal for the vast majority of players capable of doing that, and a large number of players are capable of earning 6* shards at a high enough pace to get then about as fast as most players could save for 5* featured before 5* shards were boosted. Uncollected players can get one every four months just on the monthly event alone, and 5* champions are now so much easier to get that uncollected arena grinders could be getting 6* champions every two months to three months.
Much of that depth and excitement is still there, for most players. It has moved up a notch and is somewhat easier to buy into, which means more players are enjoying that aspect of it. But what makes it easier for some players to do at all makes it arguably too easy for some of the top tier players. But it is a trade I believe is a good one to make for the game overall.
It was, and that particular metagaming has changed. But it has only changed into what you describe for a very tiny amount of players. For a far larger number of players, that particular metagame has changed into the "weekly 5* let see what we get" game. There's even a slow gradual build up to the next 6* crystal, which in many ways has a similar feel to the prior 5* featured crystal. For a lot of players, 6* champions are a bigger game-changing option than the 5* featured used to be. You used to have a one in five chance to pull that featured, and even then for many featured champions you then needed to awaken it somehow with awakening gem or second pull, but most importantly you then had to upgrade it to 4/55 which requires T2 alpha. A 3/45 5* featured champ is only marginally better than its 5/50 cousin.
But a 6* champion can be immediately upgraded to essentially 4/55-tier power with just gold and ISO, which almost any player can accumulate in a reasonable amount of time if they aren't overflowing with it now. Saving for a 6* champion is in that respect even better than the old 5* featured crystal for the vast majority of players capable of doing that, and a large number of players are capable of earning 6* shards at a high enough pace to get then about as fast as most players could save for 5* featured before 5* shards were boosted. Uncollected players can get one every four months just on the monthly event alone, and 5* champions are now so much easier to get that uncollected arena grinders could be getting 6* champions every two months to three months.
Much of that depth and excitement is still there, for most players. It has moved up a notch and is somewhat easier to buy into, which means more players are enjoying that aspect of it. But what makes it easier for some players to do at all makes it arguably too easy for some of the top tier players. But it is a trade I believe is a good one to make for the game overall.
That would be more helpful if I hadn't been playing since December 2015.
in the old meta you would have to play months to acquire a champion, now it takes two-three days.
in the old meta there was a pre determined amount of t2a available. and you would have to acquire the champions.
now. the new meta is they give you every singe champion. and you wait to acquire t5b.
It’s not an issue because you should want to build up your 6* roster. While 6* may not be as useful right now due to resource shortages, they will be in several months. So if someone has 1 million 5* shards, they should probably open those for the 6* shards. Then use those to build their 6* roster in preparation for the future.
Otherwise, maybe step away from the game for a bit and enjoy the real world. Then when you get back you’ll have to work for those 5* you didn’t get while living your life
It’s not an issue because you should want to build up your 6* roster. While 6* may not be as useful right now due to resource shortages, they will be in several months. So if someone has 1 million 5* shards, they should probably open those for the 6* shards. Then use those to build their 6* roster in preparation for the future.
Otherwise, maybe step away from the game for a bit and enjoy the real world. Then when you get back you’ll have to work for those 5* you didn’t get while living your life
thanks bro. I'm about to. I guess the game is just in a **** state right now this weird phase between 5 and 6 star champions.
[quote="DNA3000;c-507221I'm quite certain COW did not invent player disappointment. Individual players have been complaining about being disappointed about one particular part of the game or another since forever. Vastly more people have been complaining about being disappointed about being unable to get the champion they want or even have a reasonable chance at them than I can recall being disappointed in actually being able to get them all or seeing someone else spend their way to getting them all.
As far as I'm concerned, Crystal Opening Whale is subsidizing Brian Grant, and it all evens out. ContestChampion can only exist in the same world as COW. WIthout the big spenders buying their way to the top, or sometimes even just the middle, there are no free to play players of any kind.
To get more technical, all games like this have progress curves and they have resource earning curves. I'm not really in a position at the moment to grind for the 5* featured (unless it is Ant Man or similarly low scoring champ) but players like me benefit all the same: far more players are getting 2000 or 1000 5* shards out of that arena, and we are only getting those second tier and third tier rewards because the juicy carrot at the top is in a sense counter-weighting them. The 5* featured is encouraging players to engage, to grind, and to spend. And the 200 5* featured champion rewards in a technical design sense subsidizes the 5* shards that several thousand more players get.
The game was fine before. But in this particular area, it is also fine now. Maybe it is causing a problem for some of the players that are acquiring all of the top champions quickly and getting bored. But I'm quite certain that there are only a tiny group of players that could be having that problem, and only a tiny fraction of them are actually having that problem, and it is a very small price to pay for the game to be giving much better champion earning opportunities for everyone else.
If Elon Musk offered to buy the game from Netmarble and he said he was going to keep it free to play forever, and he was going to cut the costs of all unit packages in half for everyone, but in exchange he wanted all of the champions in the game for himself to play, I doubt if many players would vote against that purchase. It would be a ridiculously small price to pay for the game to be cheaper for everyone else to play. That is exactly what I see when I see the Crystal Opening Whale's videos. I'm not at all disappointed. I see one person helping to make the game cheaper for everyone else. Collectively, that's the economic effect of the whales. We just don't see it, because we cannot visualize how expensive the game would be without them: it has never existed without them.
What's more, COW and players like him spend an awful lot for relatively little return on that investment comparatively speaking. He's probably spending dozens if not hundreds of times more than me, but he isn't getting dozens of times more gameplay. When players complain about the top end offers having low value, I can only shake my head and wonder why they can't see how much that actually benefits the rest of the players that don't spend much or anything. I can't convince anyone that's a good idea, I can only take solace in the fact that no amount of player complaints will change it, fortunately for 99% of the player population whether they know it or not.
DNA, I really liked your post. made me think a bit. And I really wasn't trying to call out COW. I enjoy his content as well. But from the perspective of making a "good game" 5* arena and Unlimited supply of fgmc are issues.
but from a business perspective I'm not sure. you had mentioned "resource earning curves" I have no idea. but I would assume these companies were already making large amounts of money before these features we added to the game.[/quote]
@DJRipster I don’t like how you can acquire 5* featured champions with 2-3 days of game play (5* featured arena) it’s easy for top players to monopolize all champions.
While before it tooks months to build shards to have a good chance at these champion.
I also don’t like how players can open unlimited amount of fgmc crystals. Fgmc should only be available in deals. The fact that they let their players spend over $1000 on fgmc crystals in one sitting is unethical and disgusting.
Buying $1000 worth of fgmc shouldn’t even be a thing/feature in the game. It just shows the morals of the company imo.
@NickMerks thanks for clearing that... I can relate to how you feel about this... I was lucky only once with the old featured system, but it definitely felt nice to have a small chance at getting one of my favorites, simply by saving up my shards
Theres only 150 spots for a 5*...................when is that going to be expanded? Its ridiculously low. As an avid grinder who has most 5* champs that came out from arenas this is just beyond silly now. Player base has increased exponentially and they lowered the rewards.
Theres only 150 spots for a 5*...................when is that going to be expanded? Its ridiculously low. As an avid grinder who has most 5* champs that came out from arenas this is just beyond silly now. Player base has increased exponentially and they lowered the rewards.
Comments
@NickMerks Appreciate the follow up. I'm gonna take a guess and say that collecting every 5* champion is much less important than achieving five or more 5* champions with a max signature ability. Having all 5* champions doesn't win your alliance top AQ rewards, you just need five of them with a max signature ability to do that. All the FGMCs in the game won't accomplish that, the only way to work towards that goal is placing top 30 in the four alliance events.
Kabam hasn't received enough credit for their peak milestones update. Players who spend 50-100K+ a year on MCOC have dominated most aspects of the game since before I started playing. The new peak milestones gives F2P players a chance to catch up with the game's top AQ rewards, which in turn lets them catch up in AW Seasons because top AQ rewards give T2AC shards which mean more 4/55+ defenders.
Returning to your OP's point, you're trying to say that obtaining all of the MCOC's champions is the goal of the MCOC? If so I can see why you would say that, although IMO the goal of MCOC is to earn the game's best rewards. 5* arena has little impact on that.
this is what my original post should have stated. these are the issues.
OP has more money an time than sense. Or he just pays a Merc to grind it out like lots of them do in that arena
Those aren't issues. Those are features you happen to not like.
As far as I'm concerned, Crystal Opening Whale is subsidizing Brian Grant, and it all evens out. ContestChampion can only exist in the same world as COW. WIthout the big spenders buying their way to the top, or sometimes even just the middle, there are no free to play players of any kind.
To get more technical, all games like this have progress curves and they have resource earning curves. I'm not really in a position at the moment to grind for the 5* featured (unless it is Ant Man or similarly low scoring champ) but players like me benefit all the same: far more players are getting 2000 or 1000 5* shards out of that arena, and we are only getting those second tier and third tier rewards because the juicy carrot at the top is in a sense counter-weighting them. The 5* featured is encouraging players to engage, to grind, and to spend. And the 200 5* featured champion rewards in a technical design sense subsidizes the 5* shards that several thousand more players get.
The game was fine before. But in this particular area, it is also fine now. Maybe it is causing a problem for some of the players that are acquiring all of the top champions quickly and getting bored. But I'm quite certain that there are only a tiny group of players that could be having that problem, and only a tiny fraction of them are actually having that problem, and it is a very small price to pay for the game to be giving much better champion earning opportunities for everyone else.
If Elon Musk offered to buy the game from Netmarble and he said he was going to keep it free to play forever, and he was going to cut the costs of all unit packages in half for everyone, but in exchange he wanted all of the champions in the game for himself to play, I doubt if many players would vote against that purchase. It would be a ridiculously small price to pay for the game to be cheaper for everyone else to play. That is exactly what I see when I see the Crystal Opening Whale's videos. I'm not at all disappointed. I see one person helping to make the game cheaper for everyone else. Collectively, that's the economic effect of the whales. We just don't see it, because we cannot visualize how expensive the game would be without them: it has never existed without them.
What's more, COW and players like him spend an awful lot for relatively little return on that investment comparatively speaking. He's probably spending dozens if not hundreds of times more than me, but he isn't getting dozens of times more gameplay. When players complain about the top end offers having low value, I can only shake my head and wonder why they can't see how much that actually benefits the rest of the players that don't spend much or anything. I can't convince anyone that's a good idea, I can only take solace in the fact that no amount of player complaints will change it, fortunately for 99% of the player population whether they know it or not.[/quote]
DNA, I really liked your post. made me think a bit. And I really wasn't trying to call out COW. I enjoy his content as well. But from the perspective of making a "good game" 5* arena and Unlimited supply of fgmc are issues.
but from a business perspective I'm not sure. you had mentioned "resource earning curves" I have no idea. but I would assume these companies were already making large amounts of money before these features we added to the game.
It isn't exactly a money issue per se, although in any F2P game ultimately everything is at least indirectly tied to monetization. It is more a situation where when a game developer makes an activity like this in a game like this, they are usually thinking about the rewards in terms of "well, about this many people will get the top reward, then this many will get the second best reward, and a few more will get the third best reward" etc. The rewards are designed from the top downward, not from the bottom up, at least for the important stuff.
When the game devs make an activity with a really juicy reward, they often limit it in some fashion to limit how much of it gets out there. Thus, the 200 player limit for the 5* featured champion, rather than a percentage range. They know that only a very limited number of players will go for it, so they can make it a very valuable reward (which the 5* featured generally is). They can then give out proportionately lower rewards as consolation prizes for the players who don't make it, thus the 2000 5* fragments and the 1000 5* fragments, both of which are very valuable rewards for most players. Outside of the very top players, those rewards are enabling a large percentage of the arena grinders to be earning as much as one 5* champion a week or more, which would have been an almost unthinkable earning rate just one year ago. Those rewards take significant (but not ludicrous) effort to get. The devs feel comfortable putting those rewards there because they believe the 5* featured arena is going to attract enough attention that those rewards won't be easy to get.
In other words, the devs have a rough idea that the top 1% of players will tend to get this much rewards, and the top 10% will get somewhat less, and the next 20% will get somewhat less than that, and the rewards in the game tend to be designed with this in mind. The larger the rewards are for the top 1%, the larger the rewards are for the next 10% below them because the rising tide lifts all the boats. People at the very very very top, like you seem to be, are running into the ceiling because the tide that is lifting most people quite a bit is lifting you even higher. But for most people, that rising tide is a huge benefit. And that ceiling is there in part to make it easier for the devs to lift most players upward without lifting the top 1% into outer space. At some point, you reach diminishing returns, deliberately so that the very top don't get too far ahead of everyone else.
but before game had a sense of mysticism to it. a "secret sauce" I would call it.
But that's gone now. Now its just pay me, and its yours.
Any champion you want, just pay me for it and you can have it now.
you don't actually have to play the game anymore. just pay.
in the past you would be counting your shards. calculating how many shards you would have by the time your champion was coming to the crystal. that's how the game was made to be played imo.
its almost like if you were taking a girl on a date, would you want her to say pay me $100 now.
OR
would you want her to show some self respect and not make it so damn easy.
the game has no more depth too it.
It was, and that particular metagaming has changed. But it has only changed into what you describe for a very tiny amount of players. For a far larger number of players, that particular metagame has changed into the "weekly 5* let see what we get" game. There's even a slow gradual build up to the next 6* crystal, which in many ways has a similar feel to the prior 5* featured crystal. For a lot of players, 6* champions are a bigger game-changing option than the 5* featured used to be. You used to have a one in five chance to pull that featured, and even then for many featured champions you then needed to awaken it somehow with awakening gem or second pull, but most importantly you then had to upgrade it to 4/55 which requires T2 alpha. A 3/45 5* featured champ is only marginally better than its 5/50 cousin.
But a 6* champion can be immediately upgraded to essentially 4/55-tier power with just gold and ISO, which almost any player can accumulate in a reasonable amount of time if they aren't overflowing with it now. Saving for a 6* champion is in that respect even better than the old 5* featured crystal for the vast majority of players capable of doing that, and a large number of players are capable of earning 6* shards at a high enough pace to get then about as fast as most players could save for 5* featured before 5* shards were boosted. Uncollected players can get one every four months just on the monthly event alone, and 5* champions are now so much easier to get that uncollected arena grinders could be getting 6* champions every two months to three months.
Much of that depth and excitement is still there, for most players. It has moved up a notch and is somewhat easier to buy into, which means more players are enjoying that aspect of it. But what makes it easier for some players to do at all makes it arguably too easy for some of the top tier players. But it is a trade I believe is a good one to make for the game overall.
That would be more helpful if I hadn't been playing since December 2015.
in the old meta you would have to play months to acquire a champion, now it takes two-three days.
in the old meta there was a pre determined amount of t2a available. and you would have to acquire the champions.
now. the new meta is they give you every singe champion. and you wait to acquire t5b.
Otherwise, maybe step away from the game for a bit and enjoy the real world. Then when you get back you’ll have to work for those 5* you didn’t get while living your life
thanks bro. I'm about to. I guess the game is just in a **** state right now this weird phase between 5 and 6 star champions.
DNA, I really liked your post. made me think a bit. And I really wasn't trying to call out COW. I enjoy his content as well. But from the perspective of making a "good game" 5* arena and Unlimited supply of fgmc are issues.
but from a business perspective I'm not sure. you had mentioned "resource earning curves" I have no idea. but I would assume these companies were already making large amounts of money before these features we added to the game.[/quote]
That's a lot of reading
While before it tooks months to build shards to have a good chance at these champion.
I also don’t like how players can open unlimited amount of fgmc crystals. Fgmc should only be available in deals. The fact that they let their players spend over $1000 on fgmc crystals in one sitting is unethical and disgusting.
Buying $1000 worth of fgmc shouldn’t even be a thing/feature in the game. It just shows the morals of the company imo.
Probably when a 5* basic arena gets released