So what if you have completed say Act 3 100% Which would gain you Maestros favor... Do we have to go back and fight Thanos again to trigger the rewards?
Do you not read the info and the thread? If you have the acts 100% then you get the titles only.
So now after so many put in so much hard work to become uncollected players who arent uncollected are being given better things to get them uncollected? Im sorry but i think they should put in the work like all of us who have already got through 5.2 without these changes. Kinda makes it unfair for us who are uncollected. Not to be mean but if they dont want to put in the work then thats their choices.
It's called evolving. Games change all the time and this isn't the first time its happened in this game. For example- there was a Jugg in act 4 that had a node called "slashed tires". They removed it after countless people completed it.
Its not that they arent putting the work in, the biggest thing they will get is a better daily crystal. Nothing to complain about like you are now. Being uncollected we have access to way more than lower tier players. Let them enjoy this.
Except they aren’t putting the same work in. That Juggs and a few other Act 4 nodes were a tremendous pain and drain on resources at the time, and now a lot of that content has been watered down.
For the record, I’m perfectly fine with newer accounts (and every other account for that matter) getting nice things, whether it’s in the name of progression or evolution or whatever. New players already get 5* shards and champs older players didn’t have access to at the time, so if sprinkling titles and some better items their way via the 4-hour and dailies is the flavor of the day, then I’m okay with it.
But let’s not kid ourselves and call it something it isn’t...
Dr. Zola
They still have the same defenders and energy requirements aside from appreciation events. They are getting a little better crystals and sone random offers. Its not a huge change nor should it really matter to end game players. The gap is too large to overcome unless you are C.O.W and throw 500k (guesstimate) plus on the game.
Ive played from the beginning before AQ, before AW and before EQ's. This change is perfectly fine and shouldn't be knocked.
Not knocking the change. If the team makes a business decision to help newer players move along more quickly to get to the progression point they want them at, I understand. But I understand where the advanced players who feel a little under-appreciated are coming from as well.
I don't, not even a teeny tiny bit. The game is constantly adding features that benefit a wide range of different players from the bottom to the top. And every time it happens, there's the same nonsensical hyperbolic and utterly ludicrous complaining from players for whom any change that doesn't pump undiluted sunshine into their veins (or anywhere else) causes them to feel "unappreciated."
Everyone, from the players who started yesterday to the players who started on day two, benefitted from game advances and improvements more than someone else at least once. That's the reality of managing a game like this, and anyone claiming to be an advanced veteran player who hasn't recognized this yet really shouldn't be self-identifying as an advanced veteran player.
I think you’ve missed the point somewhere among all your adjectives and hyperbole and straw men
It’s one thing for organic game progression to render past content easier (e.g., introduction of stronger champions or abilities available to all players) and another thing altogether for game management to suddenly make it easier by fiat (e.g., Act 4 Juggs).
The former is less likely than the latter to be met with disapproval by players who didn’t have the same set of advantages as more recent players, and those are probably common reactions not just in gaming but also beyond.
I can’t recall if it was you, but someone earlier analogized it to the better deals given to lure new customers versus those given existing customers. Typically, that’s because the cost of acquiring a customer is more than the cost of retaining them. But any existing or “veteran” customer doesn’t really care why it is—they see it as at least a little unfair, especially because they view themselves as loyal customers who have been taken for granted. I think that’s the reason for some of the negativity towards a change that honestly isn’t likely to move the needle much anyway. Like it or not, though, it is typical human nature.
In a game designer’s hypothetical universe, you can assume pretend people will behave any way you want. But it’s probably a better idea to work to understand how people are actually going to behave in the real world and adjust your hypothetical universe accordingly.
So what if you have completed say Act 3 100% Which would gain you Maestros favor... Do we have to go back and fight Thanos again to trigger the rewards?
Do you not read the info and the thread? If you have the acts 100% then you get the titles only.
It's complete not explore. Did you read the thread?
Waste of time to do. Like why not make it worth your time to put useful things in there...
It's not really as much of an objective as it is a bonus to help people while they're already on their way. Perhaps it's a waste of time for people who are much further along, but it's not really intended for them.
In the end this doesn't impact a lot of veteran players at all... And maybe that's why I've got mixed feelings about this.
Using the cable tv analogy, getting new customers is certainly a lot harder then retaining old customers, till the old customer tries to cancel. Then an entire customer retetion group gets involved and starts trying to throw the old customer a bone like packaged movie channels, limited time discounts ect.
Summoner appreciation events are the special packages and bundled movie channels to retain customers.
Given the last summoner appreciation week though, it seems retaining customers isn't very important.
So now after so many put in so much hard work to become uncollected players who arent uncollected are being given better things to get them uncollected? Im sorry but i think they should put in the work like all of us who have already got through 5.2 without these changes. Kinda makes it unfair for us who are uncollected. Not to be mean but if they dont want to put in the work then thats their choices.
It's called evolving. Games change all the time and this isn't the first time its happened in this game. For example- there was a Jugg in act 4 that had a node called "slashed tires". They removed it after countless people completed it.
Its not that they arent putting the work in, the biggest thing they will get is a better daily crystal. Nothing to complain about like you are now. Being uncollected we have access to way more than lower tier players. Let them enjoy this.
Except they aren’t putting the same work in. That Juggs and a few other Act 4 nodes were a tremendous pain and drain on resources at the time, and now a lot of that content has been watered down.
For the record, I’m perfectly fine with newer accounts (and every other account for that matter) getting nice things, whether it’s in the name of progression or evolution or whatever. New players already get 5* shards and champs older players didn’t have access to at the time, so if sprinkling titles and some better items their way via the 4-hour and dailies is the flavor of the day, then I’m okay with it.
But let’s not kid ourselves and call it something it isn’t...
Dr. Zola
They still have the same defenders and energy requirements aside from appreciation events. They are getting a little better crystals and sone random offers. Its not a huge change nor should it really matter to end game players. The gap is too large to overcome unless you are C.O.W and throw 500k (guesstimate) plus on the game.
Ive played from the beginning before AQ, before AW and before EQ's. This change is perfectly fine and shouldn't be knocked.
Not knocking the change. If the team makes a business decision to help newer players move along more quickly to get to the progression point they want them at, I understand. But I understand where the advanced players who feel a little under-appreciated are coming from as well.
I don't, not even a teeny tiny bit. The game is constantly adding features that benefit a wide range of different players from the bottom to the top. And every time it happens, there's the same nonsensical hyperbolic and utterly ludicrous complaining from players for whom any change that doesn't pump undiluted sunshine into their veins (or anywhere else) causes them to feel "unappreciated."
Everyone, from the players who started yesterday to the players who started on day two, benefitted from game advances and improvements more than someone else at least once. That's the reality of managing a game like this, and anyone claiming to be an advanced veteran player who hasn't recognized this yet really shouldn't be self-identifying as an advanced veteran player.
I think you’ve missed the point somewhere among all your adjectives and hyperbole and straw men
That would seem to be impossible, since the only point I was making was my point: that I have no real sympathy for the people complaining about this change. I'm not obligated to make any other point.
I can’t recall if it was you, but someone earlier analogized it to the better deals given to lure new customers versus those given existing customers. Typically, that’s because the cost of acquiring a customer is more than the cost of retaining them. But any existing or “veteran” customer doesn’t really care why it is—they see it as at least a little unfair, especially because they view themselves as loyal customers who have been taken for granted. I think that’s the reason for some of the negativity towards a change that honestly isn’t likely to move the needle much anyway. Like it or not, though, it is typical human nature.
Except that doesn't represent this particular change at all. This isn't a case of newer customers getting something veterans don't get, like the special novice arena brackets. In this case, special rewards are being added to the game for a set of different achievements. But it was *uncollected* that was added first, and contender, proven, and conqueror that were added second. To say that the situation is unfair to veterans is tantamount to saying if uncollected wasn't released a year ago and instead was only offered now, *that* would be more fair to veterans. But that's preposterous: that would help exactly zero veterans and hurt a substantial number of them.
The alternative is to say that since veterans faced a game in which completing Act 3 did not offer any particular ongoing benefit, then it would be unfair for any newer player to get something different. But that position is largely incompatible with online games of this kind. For any MMO, the progression curve is always adjusting to a large number of variables, and no two players that start playing at different times are going to face the same one. Newer players are very likely to see an easier progression curve than older players for a wide variety of reasons.
No game operator will tell you this to your face, but games choose their customers just as much as customers choose their games. If you don't like fighting games, then MCOC deselected you as a customer. If you don't like Marvel, MCOC probably deselected you as a customer. Every game decision doesn't just appeal to some, it rejects others: random crystals, energy timers, the collection aspect of the game. Well, for the vast majority of MMOs and similar games, "newer players will have an easier time than veteran players facing the same content" is one of those design decisions every online game of similar nature that I've played has made. That's a natural consequence of how progression curves tend to evolve over time. If it is something you find unacceptable, then online games that are or are like MMOs are probably not your thing.
This isn't something game developers are or at least should be unaware of. Some people will react poorly to these kinds of game design decisions. But implying that game developers don't understand this when they make these kinds of decisions is rather like suggesting that game developers don't understand that some people don't like fighting games. They know, but they chose to make a fighting game anyway.
When I say I don't understand the players complaining, I don't mean that in the sense of being unaware of the propensity of the psychological reaction or its purported underpinnings. I'm using the word in the sense of empathizing, not comprehending. In online games of this kind, it is always easier to follow than to get there first. And always will be. And that effect magnifies over time. And you have to accept it, or not play them, because you have no choice. As far as I'm aware, there are no options for this kind of game where this isn't true. Let me know if you find one.
I’m not going to punish readers by including the pages of quotes here, but I am going to try to assist with a little editing:
1) No two players in an MMO like this have the same experience.
2) A newer player in an MMO will almost always have an “easier” experience than an older one, and this “easiness” grows over time.
3) Game designers can and will (and should) make changes to games.
4) Many of the changes made by game designers will advantage one group of players over another, and some of those changes will affect how and how much 2) affects the game.
I agree with all 4), and I believe you said some permutation of each of the above points. What I disagree with is the notion that players who dislike the manner in which 3)/4) is implemented are unjustified.
How an MMO is managed, and especially how a MMO’s team manages the perceptions of its customers over time is important—especially since many humans tend to react to changes just the way you would expect them to react in this thread.
Much of the negative sentiment here doesn’t spring up in a vacuum. It’s built over 12, 24, 36 months amid a talus of game management decisions and how they were managed or mismanaged. And dismissing that as illegitimate, or entitled or whatever reeks of out of touch, ivory tower game design.
So what if you have completed say Act 3 100% Which would gain you Maestros favor... Do we have to go back and fight Thanos again to trigger the rewards?
Do you not read the info and the thread? If you have the acts 100% then you get the titles only.
It's complete not explore. Did you read the thread?
@TheSquish671 he asked if he has Act 3 100% would he get the titles. It clearly states it in the announcement and also from a MOD comment on this thread. Did you read his comment?
Much of the negative sentiment here doesn’t spring up in a vacuum. It’s built over 12, 24, 36 months amid a talus of game management decisions and how they were managed or mismanaged. And dismissing that as illegitimate, or entitled or whatever reeks of out of touch, ivory tower game design.
Dr. Zola
This is where I 100% disagree with what you are saying. Much of the negative sentiment comes from greediness of the player base in general. Do something for this group of players and someone's offended because they weren't included. Run an event like an arena that will give EVERYONE a free 5* and end game players are upset people below their level get one too. Have another event were all you have to do is fight super easy opponents and you get a free 5* and anyone can do it and people get upset because IP is in it. There are issues with some of the game management but a lot of the negativity is brought on by the community themselves. Nothing is ever good enough no matter what Kabam does for the player base and it never will be because of how greedy everyone is.
I have acts 1-5 100% done and I could care less if someone is still working on them gets some crystals with different stuff in them now. If I want that experience, I'll create a 2nd account and do it all over again.
If they made changes that HELPED your current progression but not a new players progression, what would your view be? Would it be that they need to put the time in? Would it be "I'm a veteran to the game so I deserve it"? What would your stance be then?
Complaining isnt going to help Kabam or the game.
Instead of complaining maybe everyone should just give kabam ideas that maybe they havent thought of yet.
Idea examples:
1. Drop rates for crystals go higher based on act completion title.
2. Unit crystal buys should have a better pull rate than shard openings.
3. Because you can no longer sell 5*s how about put the same system up you have for t4cc.
You give up 3 5* for 1 5* champion of your choice or you can chose from a list of champs kabam is offering.
4.put more focus on 5* and 6* shards
Much of the negative sentiment here doesn’t spring up in a vacuum. It’s built over 12, 24, 36 months amid a talus of game management decisions and how they were managed or mismanaged. And dismissing that as illegitimate, or entitled or whatever reeks of out of touch, ivory tower game design.
Dr. Zola
This is where I 100% disagree with what you are saying. Much of the negative sentiment comes from greediness of the player base in general. Do something for this group of players and someone's offended because they weren't included. Run an event like an arena that will give EVERYONE a free 5* and end game players are upset people below their level get one too. Have another event were all you have to do is fight super easy opponents and you get a free 5* and anyone can do it and people get upset because IP is in it. There are issues with some of the game management but a lot of the negativity is brought on by the community themselves. Nothing is ever good enough no matter what Kabam does for the player base and it never will be because of how greedy everyone is.
I have acts 1-5 100% done and I could care less if someone is still working on them gets some crystals with different stuff in them now. If I want that experience, I'll create a 2nd account and do it all over again.
If they made changes that HELPED your current progression but not a new players progression, what would your view be? Would it be that they need to put the time in? Would it be "I'm a veteran to the game so I deserve it"? What would your stance be then?
Greedy players are so clearly the problem. Imagine the nerve of customers—wanting things! Why won’t they learn their place and do what they are told?
I’m not surprised, but I don’t think you’ve understood my comments. I personally don’t have a problem if the game team decides to move one segment or another along for whatever reason—out of altruism, generosity, pity, profit motive or whatever. But I also can understand why some players who have a lengthier history with the game might take issue and lump this small game change in with the batch of others they perceive as unfair or disproportionate. And for some veterans, that can be a much thornier, systemic batch of issues than it might be for a new account.
As for your questions, I don’t think I personally deserve anything other than as fair a shake as everyone else gets. No special treatment—that’s about as far from “greedy and entitled” as you can get.
Basicly, veterans who already done act 2-4 100% will only receive the title. Correct?
Veterans who already did 100% act 2-4 + Uncollected will only receive only the title. Right? Since uncollected daily and free crystal is different compared to act 2-4 title.
I can understand that new players needed this new title or whatever it is for progression.
as for Uncollected summoner who have access to buy FGMC or GMC, access to uncollected event quest monthly should just chill. Dont be greedy cause youre a veteran who has tons of iso8 to level up your champ, many champs to do arena and can do AQ AW EQ at the same time. Compared to newly player who struggle a lot to get iso8’s, facing death match in arena. Dont have enough champ to even do AQ AW at the same time.
Stop complaining much because you were once a beginner too. 😋
Personally as a “seasoned summoner” in this game, i’d say this new title progression is a good thing for new comer, it aint easy to start from the bottom mate.
I started on feb 2015 and were playing alone with no clue on whats good or bad. I was so dissapointed because it was effin hard to get a 4* so i quit the game during act4.1 kicked off.
Back then it was hard to progress compared to now.
P/s: because i dont really spent too much lol
So, all the best to new player .. a couple of 4* will help you thru act 1-4 i’d say. Play AQ AW EQ every month and train your skill well. Dont get stress its just a game.
Basicly, veterans who already done act 2-4 100% will only receive the title. Correct?
Well yes and no. Besides the title, the other "rewards" are really just unlocks: the title unlocks better crystals and PHC discounts. Uncollected players have already unlocked the best version of those. The instant that these titles materialize in the game all uncollected players will implicitly have all of these features unlocked as well. It is just that they won't notice, because they have already unlocked the best version of these.
Ah geez I’m too late for mods to respond, but should the crystal shard crystals price change? If a premium costs 80/70/60 then the crystal shard crystal should also go down? Right? It’s currently 10 units for basically 200 prem shards, so should It be like 7 idk lol
From a business perspective this makes complete sense....
Someone that is new and not feeling well invested in the game is not going to be very likely to spend money, and it's a lot easier for them to quit the game. Especially when going up against or comparing themselves to someone that has been playing a while.
Someone that feels that they are progressing and is able to catch up and hold their own against players who have been around for a while is going to be more likely to stay and invest the time and money.
Hey folks, I saw a few questions and some confusion on the thread, so I just wanted to clarify:
As Miike said, if you have already completed the quests in question you will receive the titles/upgrades retroactively, just not immediately. We have to scan through the database of accounts, see where people's progression markers are, and then batch dole out the titles based on that. You will not lose out by having already passed those checkpoints! This was one of the first things we checked to see if we could feasibly do so that no one would get left in the cold when we rolled out this system. Those who finish the quests after the system is up will receive the titles/upgrades as naturally as any item drop.
And a little bit on our intent, to follow up:
The idea here is to make Story Quests more of a global marker of your growth as a Summoner. Right now it's very binary; you're either Uncollected, or you're not. Any Summoner with a little experience knows that there is a wide, wide gradient of power levels between a new Summoner and an Uncollected one, and that distinction has only grown with time. These new titles should be considered an extension of the Uncollected system, one that reflects the developmental stages of a Summoner's progression and allows them to use the Story Quests as a litmus test for their power level. It has the bonus effect of doing something we've wanted to do for a long time, which is improving the Daily and 4-Hour Crystals for players who are moving through the game and have very little need for things like Tier 1 Catalysts and 1-Star Champions.
Hope this clears a few things up! Really happy to see the discussion and feedback around this.
Hey folks, I saw a few questions and some confusion on the thread, so I just wanted to clarify:
As Miike said, if you have already completed the quests in question you will receive the titles/upgrades retroactively, just not immediately. We have to scan through the database of accounts, see where people's progression markers are, and then batch dole out the titles based on that. You will not lose out by having already passed those checkpoints! This was one of the first things we checked to see if we could feasibly do so that no one would get left in the cold when we rolled out this system. Those who finish the quests after the system is up will receive the titles/upgrades as naturally as any item drop.
And a little bit on our intent, to follow up:
The idea here is to make Story Quests more of a global marker of your growth as a Summoner. Right now it's very binary; you're either Uncollected, or you're not. Any Summoner with a little experience knows that there is a wide, wide gradient of power levels between a new Summoner and an Uncollected one, and that distinction has only grown with time. These new titles should be considered an extension of the Uncollected system, one that reflects the developmental stages of a Summoner's progression and allows them to use the Story Quests as a litmus test for their power level. It has the bonus effect of doing something we've wanted to do for a long time, which is improving the Daily and 4-Hour Crystals for players who are moving through the game and have very little need for things like Tier 1 Catalysts and 1-Star Champions.
Hope this clears a few things up! Really happy to see the discussion and feedback around this.
Did you guys look at adding an act 5 100% title? There is still a huge gap between uncollected players and those that have 100% act 5
Hey folks, I saw a few questions and some confusion on the thread, so I just wanted to clarify:
As Miike said, if you have already completed the quests in question you will receive the titles/upgrades retroactively, just not immediately. We have to scan through the database of accounts, see where people's progression markers are, and then batch dole out the titles based on that. You will not lose out by having already passed those checkpoints! This was one of the first things we checked to see if we could feasibly do so that no one would get left in the cold when we rolled out this system. Those who finish the quests after the system is up will receive the titles/upgrades as naturally as any item drop.
And a little bit on our intent, to follow up:
The idea here is to make Story Quests more of a global marker of your growth as a Summoner. Right now it's very binary; you're either Uncollected, or you're not. Any Summoner with a little experience knows that there is a wide, wide gradient of power levels between a new Summoner and an Uncollected one, and that distinction has only grown with time. These new titles should be considered an extension of the Uncollected system, one that reflects the developmental stages of a Summoner's progression and allows them to use the Story Quests as a litmus test for their power level. It has the bonus effect of doing something we've wanted to do for a long time, which is improving the Daily and 4-Hour Crystals for players who are moving through the game and have very little need for things like Tier 1 Catalysts and 1-Star Champions.
Hope this clears a few things up! Really happy to see the discussion and feedback around this.
Did you guys look at adding an act 5 100% title? There is still a huge gap between uncollected players and those that have 100% act 5
I'm not sure I would agree in this context. There is a gap between players that have completed uncollected and those that have fully explored Act 5 due to the actual rewards inherent in fully exploring Act 5, but I don't think there is as big of a gap between players capable of beating the Collector (and becoming uncollected) and players capable of fully exploring Act 5 in theory, separate from whether they've invested the time to do so or not.
Hey folks, I saw a few questions and some confusion on the thread, so I just wanted to clarify:
As Miike said, if you have already completed the quests in question you will receive the titles/upgrades retroactively, just not immediately. We have to scan through the database of accounts, see where people's progression markers are, and then batch dole out the titles based on that. You will not lose out by having already passed those checkpoints! This was one of the first things we checked to see if we could feasibly do so that no one would get left in the cold when we rolled out this system. Those who finish the quests after the system is up will receive the titles/upgrades as naturally as any item drop.
And a little bit on our intent, to follow up:
The idea here is to make Story Quests more of a global marker of your growth as a Summoner. Right now it's very binary; you're either Uncollected, or you're not. Any Summoner with a little experience knows that there is a wide, wide gradient of power levels between a new Summoner and an Uncollected one, and that distinction has only grown with time. These new titles should be considered an extension of the Uncollected system, one that reflects the developmental stages of a Summoner's progression and allows them to use the Story Quests as a litmus test for their power level. It has the bonus effect of doing something we've wanted to do for a long time, which is improving the Daily and 4-Hour Crystals for players who are moving through the game and have very little need for things like Tier 1 Catalysts and 1-Star Champions.
Hope this clears a few things up! Really happy to see the discussion and feedback around this.
Did you guys look at adding an act 5 100% title? There is still a huge gap between uncollected players and those that have 100% act 5
I'm not sure I would agree in this context. There is a gap between players that have completed uncollected and those that have fully explored Act 5 due to the actual rewards inherent in fully exploring Act 5, but I don't think there is as big of a gap between players capable of beating the Collector (and becoming uncollected) and players capable of fully exploring Act 5 in theory, separate from whether they've invested the time to do so or not.
I don't think this is quite accurate. I've seen many summoner with only 1-2 5/50s become uncollected in about 7 months of play time. Whereas there are many players that have 100% act 5 and have been playing for 3+ years. I think the gap is wide enough to justify another title being made.
Comments
Do you not read the info and the thread? If you have the acts 100% then you get the titles only.
I think you’ve missed the point somewhere among all your adjectives and hyperbole and straw men
It’s one thing for organic game progression to render past content easier (e.g., introduction of stronger champions or abilities available to all players) and another thing altogether for game management to suddenly make it easier by fiat (e.g., Act 4 Juggs).
The former is less likely than the latter to be met with disapproval by players who didn’t have the same set of advantages as more recent players, and those are probably common reactions not just in gaming but also beyond.
I can’t recall if it was you, but someone earlier analogized it to the better deals given to lure new customers versus those given existing customers. Typically, that’s because the cost of acquiring a customer is more than the cost of retaining them. But any existing or “veteran” customer doesn’t really care why it is—they see it as at least a little unfair, especially because they view themselves as loyal customers who have been taken for granted. I think that’s the reason for some of the negativity towards a change that honestly isn’t likely to move the needle much anyway. Like it or not, though, it is typical human nature.
In a game designer’s hypothetical universe, you can assume pretend people will behave any way you want. But it’s probably a better idea to work to understand how people are actually going to behave in the real world and adjust your hypothetical universe accordingly.
Dr. Zola
It's complete not explore. Did you read the thread?
It's not really as much of an objective as it is a bonus to help people while they're already on their way. Perhaps it's a waste of time for people who are much further along, but it's not really intended for them.
So you want to change your uncollected rewards(daily. And 4 hour crystal) to one of the lower ones?
Kabaam please change his to the lower ones. Seeing as he’s saying (basically) is he wants lower rewards
Using the cable tv analogy, getting new customers is certainly a lot harder then retaining old customers, till the old customer tries to cancel. Then an entire customer retetion group gets involved and starts trying to throw the old customer a bone like packaged movie channels, limited time discounts ect.
Summoner appreciation events are the special packages and bundled movie channels to retain customers.
Given the last summoner appreciation week though, it seems retaining customers isn't very important.
That would seem to be impossible, since the only point I was making was my point: that I have no real sympathy for the people complaining about this change. I'm not obligated to make any other point.
Except that doesn't represent this particular change at all. This isn't a case of newer customers getting something veterans don't get, like the special novice arena brackets. In this case, special rewards are being added to the game for a set of different achievements. But it was *uncollected* that was added first, and contender, proven, and conqueror that were added second. To say that the situation is unfair to veterans is tantamount to saying if uncollected wasn't released a year ago and instead was only offered now, *that* would be more fair to veterans. But that's preposterous: that would help exactly zero veterans and hurt a substantial number of them.
The alternative is to say that since veterans faced a game in which completing Act 3 did not offer any particular ongoing benefit, then it would be unfair for any newer player to get something different. But that position is largely incompatible with online games of this kind. For any MMO, the progression curve is always adjusting to a large number of variables, and no two players that start playing at different times are going to face the same one. Newer players are very likely to see an easier progression curve than older players for a wide variety of reasons.
No game operator will tell you this to your face, but games choose their customers just as much as customers choose their games. If you don't like fighting games, then MCOC deselected you as a customer. If you don't like Marvel, MCOC probably deselected you as a customer. Every game decision doesn't just appeal to some, it rejects others: random crystals, energy timers, the collection aspect of the game. Well, for the vast majority of MMOs and similar games, "newer players will have an easier time than veteran players facing the same content" is one of those design decisions every online game of similar nature that I've played has made. That's a natural consequence of how progression curves tend to evolve over time. If it is something you find unacceptable, then online games that are or are like MMOs are probably not your thing.
This isn't something game developers are or at least should be unaware of. Some people will react poorly to these kinds of game design decisions. But implying that game developers don't understand this when they make these kinds of decisions is rather like suggesting that game developers don't understand that some people don't like fighting games. They know, but they chose to make a fighting game anyway.
When I say I don't understand the players complaining, I don't mean that in the sense of being unaware of the propensity of the psychological reaction or its purported underpinnings. I'm using the word in the sense of empathizing, not comprehending. In online games of this kind, it is always easier to follow than to get there first. And always will be. And that effect magnifies over time. And you have to accept it, or not play them, because you have no choice. As far as I'm aware, there are no options for this kind of game where this isn't true. Let me know if you find one.
I’m not going to punish readers by including the pages of quotes here, but I am going to try to assist with a little editing:
1) No two players in an MMO like this have the same experience.
2) A newer player in an MMO will almost always have an “easier” experience than an older one, and this “easiness” grows over time.
3) Game designers can and will (and should) make changes to games.
4) Many of the changes made by game designers will advantage one group of players over another, and some of those changes will affect how and how much 2) affects the game.
I agree with all 4), and I believe you said some permutation of each of the above points. What I disagree with is the notion that players who dislike the manner in which 3)/4) is implemented are unjustified.
How an MMO is managed, and especially how a MMO’s team manages the perceptions of its customers over time is important—especially since many humans tend to react to changes just the way you would expect them to react in this thread.
Much of the negative sentiment here doesn’t spring up in a vacuum. It’s built over 12, 24, 36 months amid a talus of game management decisions and how they were managed or mismanaged. And dismissing that as illegitimate, or entitled or whatever reeks of out of touch, ivory tower game design.
Dr. Zola
@TheSquish671 he asked if he has Act 3 100% would he get the titles. It clearly states it in the announcement and also from a MOD comment on this thread. Did you read his comment?
This is where I 100% disagree with what you are saying. Much of the negative sentiment comes from greediness of the player base in general. Do something for this group of players and someone's offended because they weren't included. Run an event like an arena that will give EVERYONE a free 5* and end game players are upset people below their level get one too. Have another event were all you have to do is fight super easy opponents and you get a free 5* and anyone can do it and people get upset because IP is in it. There are issues with some of the game management but a lot of the negativity is brought on by the community themselves. Nothing is ever good enough no matter what Kabam does for the player base and it never will be because of how greedy everyone is.
I have acts 1-5 100% done and I could care less if someone is still working on them gets some crystals with different stuff in them now. If I want that experience, I'll create a 2nd account and do it all over again.
If they made changes that HELPED your current progression but not a new players progression, what would your view be? Would it be that they need to put the time in? Would it be "I'm a veteran to the game so I deserve it"? What would your stance be then?
Instead of complaining maybe everyone should just give kabam ideas that maybe they havent thought of yet.
Idea examples:
1. Drop rates for crystals go higher based on act completion title.
2. Unit crystal buys should have a better pull rate than shard openings.
3. Because you can no longer sell 5*s how about put the same system up you have for t4cc.
You give up 3 5* for 1 5* champion of your choice or you can chose from a list of champs kabam is offering.
4.put more focus on 5* and 6* shards
Stuff like this to help kabam.
Just saying
Greedy players are so clearly the problem. Imagine the nerve of customers—wanting things! Why won’t they learn their place and do what they are told?
I’m not surprised, but I don’t think you’ve understood my comments. I personally don’t have a problem if the game team decides to move one segment or another along for whatever reason—out of altruism, generosity, pity, profit motive or whatever. But I also can understand why some players who have a lengthier history with the game might take issue and lump this small game change in with the batch of others they perceive as unfair or disproportionate. And for some veterans, that can be a much thornier, systemic batch of issues than it might be for a new account.
As for your questions, I don’t think I personally deserve anything other than as fair a shake as everyone else gets. No special treatment—that’s about as far from “greedy and entitled” as you can get.
Dr. Zola
Veterans who already did 100% act 2-4 + Uncollected will only receive only the title. Right? Since uncollected daily and free crystal is different compared to act 2-4 title.
I can understand that new players needed this new title or whatever it is for progression.
as for Uncollected summoner who have access to buy FGMC or GMC, access to uncollected event quest monthly should just chill. Dont be greedy cause youre a veteran who has tons of iso8 to level up your champ, many champs to do arena and can do AQ AW EQ at the same time. Compared to newly player who struggle a lot to get iso8’s, facing death match in arena. Dont have enough champ to even do AQ AW at the same time.
Stop complaining much because you were once a beginner too. 😋
I started on feb 2015 and were playing alone with no clue on whats good or bad. I was so dissapointed because it was effin hard to get a 4* so i quit the game during act4.1 kicked off.
Back then it was hard to progress compared to now.
P/s: because i dont really spent too much lol
So, all the best to new player .. a couple of 4* will help you thru act 1-4 i’d say. Play AQ AW EQ every month and train your skill well. Dont get stress its just a game.
#ParryOn
Well yes and no. Besides the title, the other "rewards" are really just unlocks: the title unlocks better crystals and PHC discounts. Uncollected players have already unlocked the best version of those. The instant that these titles materialize in the game all uncollected players will implicitly have all of these features unlocked as well. It is just that they won't notice, because they have already unlocked the best version of these.
Someone that is new and not feeling well invested in the game is not going to be very likely to spend money, and it's a lot easier for them to quit the game. Especially when going up against or comparing themselves to someone that has been playing a while.
Someone that feels that they are progressing and is able to catch up and hold their own against players who have been around for a while is going to be more likely to stay and invest the time and money.
As Miike said, if you have already completed the quests in question you will receive the titles/upgrades retroactively, just not immediately. We have to scan through the database of accounts, see where people's progression markers are, and then batch dole out the titles based on that. You will not lose out by having already passed those checkpoints! This was one of the first things we checked to see if we could feasibly do so that no one would get left in the cold when we rolled out this system. Those who finish the quests after the system is up will receive the titles/upgrades as naturally as any item drop.
And a little bit on our intent, to follow up:
The idea here is to make Story Quests more of a global marker of your growth as a Summoner. Right now it's very binary; you're either Uncollected, or you're not. Any Summoner with a little experience knows that there is a wide, wide gradient of power levels between a new Summoner and an Uncollected one, and that distinction has only grown with time. These new titles should be considered an extension of the Uncollected system, one that reflects the developmental stages of a Summoner's progression and allows them to use the Story Quests as a litmus test for their power level. It has the bonus effect of doing something we've wanted to do for a long time, which is improving the Daily and 4-Hour Crystals for players who are moving through the game and have very little need for things like Tier 1 Catalysts and 1-Star Champions.
Hope this clears a few things up! Really happy to see the discussion and feedback around this.
Did you guys look at adding an act 5 100% title? There is still a huge gap between uncollected players and those that have 100% act 5
I'm not sure I would agree in this context. There is a gap between players that have completed uncollected and those that have fully explored Act 5 due to the actual rewards inherent in fully exploring Act 5, but I don't think there is as big of a gap between players capable of beating the Collector (and becoming uncollected) and players capable of fully exploring Act 5 in theory, separate from whether they've invested the time to do so or not.
I don't think this is quite accurate. I've seen many summoner with only 1-2 5/50s become uncollected in about 7 months of play time. Whereas there are many players that have 100% act 5 and have been playing for 3+ years. I think the gap is wide enough to justify another title being made.