Something is wrong with Matchmaking

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

The fact is, you need a second factor to regulate things. Not just because of Tanking, but the mess we saw from punishments. Matches were all over the place. It was a mess. Prestige may or may not be used, but it's not the only thing used. As long as War Rating is involved as well, it will balance. Also, Prestige is something that grows as Allies grow.

xNig · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
No, that was the issue that came up when Rating alone was used. It's not the same when both are a factor.

You mean a Alliance Rating?

It will still be a problem if matchmaking are divided by subsets of war ratings then alliance ratings. This means weaker alliances only face weaker alliances even at a higher tier.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

That wss the issue brought up when Alliance Rating was used before. That's not going to happen here.

xNig · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
That wss the issue brought up when Alliance Rating was used before. That's not going to happen here.

Sorry bro. As much as I hope that it’s not going to happen, it already has and evidence has been given to prove that it has.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

So because there's one 6 Mil Ally in Plat, you think the whole system is going to overturn? Tell me, what's better? People being able to Match safely and not worry about getting ambushed just to give Tankers a boost, or having the Brackets in tandem with Alliance Rating? There's nothing that says the Tiers should be in descending Rating order. We can't say they don't belong in Plat if they're fighting their way up there. We don't even know what they fought to get there, what their story is, any of it. All we know is there's a 6 Mil Ally in Plat. I'd rather have a system that ensures people can't take advantage of others and manipulate the Matchmaking than get offended by their Rating being in a high Bracket.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

Just saying, let's wait and see.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

Didn't mean for that to come off snappy. Hope you weren't offended. My tone sounded stronger than I wanted on that one.

Maat1985 · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
So because there's one 6 Mil Ally in Plat, you think the whole system is going to overturn? Tell me, what's better? People being able to Match safely and not worry about getting ambushed just to give Tankers a boost, or having the Brackets in tandem with Alliance Rating? There's nothing that says the Tiers should be in descending Rating order. We can't say they don't belong in Plat if they're fighting their way up there. We don't even know what they fought to get there, what their story is, any of it. All we know is there's a 6 Mil Ally in Plat. I'd rather have a system that ensures people can't take advantage of others and manipulate the Matchmaking than get offended by their Rating being in a high Bracket.

the tanking and shell allies are still there.
gold 1 and gold 2 are littered with shell allies. with only like 5 members or such tanking during season and taking rewards away from peeps.
every shell ally taking a spot in gold 1 takes that spot away from a legit ally.

if you think tanking and shell allies are gone you are mistaken.
these allies are simply tanking their shells during season.
which is worse than off season tanking cus it takes season spots away from legit allies.
there is even a few in plat 3 by the looks of it.

plus there are low ranked allies in gold 1 and plat 3 that purchased some of these old defunct alliances. so they are there even though they don't deserve it but are now unlikely to drop down.

You are 100% absolutely kidding yourself if you think tanking and shells are gone.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

This is the first Season they've done it, is it not? The whole system is different. We have to Enlist now. It takes time for things to adjust. All I know is if they're including Prestige as well as War Rating, it's a step in the right direction to combat manipulation. You can try to Tank and you can use Shells, but no one is about to mess with their own Prestige.

Maat1985 · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
This is the first Season they've done it, is it not? The whole system is different. We have to Enlist now. It takes time for things to adjust. All I know is if they're including Prestige as well as War Rating, it's a step in the right direction to combat manipulation. You can try to Tank and you can use Shells, but no one is about to mess with their own Prestige.

prestige no.
but that's assuming they are using prestige.
we do know people would happily sell low champs to manipulate Alliance rating.
do we infact know that prestige is being used?

but still it doesn't solve the problem of shells and tanking regardless.
as I said.
we have IN Season tanking of shell allies taking gold 1 gold 2 and possibly ewven plat 3 rewards away from legit allies.
and that is just wrong

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

What good would Tanking and Shells do if the Matches are going to take into account Prestige as well? They'll still be Matched with similar Prestige.
Do I know for sure? No. That's the theory of this Thread, though. I suppprt it if that's the case. It was my idea.

Maat1985 · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
What good would Tanking and Shells do if the Matches are going to take into account Prestige as well? They'll still be Matched with similar Prestige.
Do I know for sure? No. That's the theory of this Thread, though. I suppprt it if that's the case. It was my idea.

when the bulk of the top allieas all have very much the same prestige it would do a lot.
the top 50 allies no doubt have essentially the same prestige so the biggest difference is gunna be WR to decide.
now if you drop your war rating to a lower amount you will be facing allies with your same prestige but at ur new WR.

so instead of having top 10 WR and matching against top 20 kinda allies you drop ur WR and match against 50-70 kinda allies.

and prestige was not just ur idea. it was something many suggested.
heck even I have suggested it.

because Yes it is better than Alliance rating.
but it is still flawed and flaws deserve to be pointed out.
this system may be better than before but it still is not perfect.

Maat1985 · March 2019

and it doesn't matter if u think tanking and shells are good or bad or useful or not, point is it is still happening.

xNig · March 2019

Wrong. Prestige should NEVER be included in matchmaking.

Yes I agree, by matching solely on WR gives room for manipulation and tanking. However, by including Prestige in the matchmaking, you’re opening room for having alliances ranked where they are not supposed to be ranked in.

For eg, the said 6m alliance in Plat 3 would be crushed by any alliance in Gold 1 currently due to the sheer difference in roster.

What could be done is, have matchmaking done based solely on WR, and make the actual war ratings be part of the multiplier calculation. For eg, an alliance at 3k WR vs an alliance of 3.5k WR will have a multiplier of 3.25k, which is the average of both alliances.

This way, there is no incentive for alliances to tank since each having their war ratings dropped means having their multiplier reduced as well.

This will also address the issue of 2 alliances having similar season points when one is matching at 3.5k whilst the other is matching at 2.9k (since under the current system, both alliances will be given tier 1 multiplier). I believe the wars at 3.5k ratings is relatively more difficult than at 2.9k ratings so having the same multiplier kinda sucks for the higher end.

In a nutshell, what this means is, as alliances climb higher with respect to war ratings, their season war multiplier increases as they face harder and harder wars, be it nodes or defenders.

QuantumBob · March 2019

We've had poor match after poor match . Very obviously tanking inbetween seasons and we've been matched up with those alliances. Start times have usually been bad as well. This last season of war has killed off my desire to participate in war

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

xNig said:
Wrong. Prestige should NEVER be included in matchmaking.

Yes I agree, by matching solely on WR gives room for manipulation and tanking. However, by including Prestige in the matchmaking, you’re opening room for having alliances ranked where they are not supposed to be ranked in.

For eg, the said 6m alliance in Plat 3 would be crushed by any alliance in Gold 1 currently due to the sheer difference in roster.

What could be done is, have matchmaking done based solely on WR, and make the actual war ratings be part of the multiplier calculation. For eg, an alliance at 3k WR vs an alliance of 3.5k WR will have a multiplier of 3.25k, which is the average of both alliances.

This way, there is no incentive for alliances to tank since each having their war ratings dropped means having their multiplier reduced as well.

This will also address the issue of 2 alliances having similar season points when one is matching at 3.5k whilst the other is matching at 2.9k (since under the current system, both alliances will be given tier 1 multiplier). I believe the wars at 3.5k ratings is relatively more difficult than at 2.9k ratings so having the same multiplier kinda sucks for the higher end.

In a nutshell, what this means is, as alliances climb higher with respect to war ratings, their season war multiplier increases as they face harder and harder wars, be it nodes or defenders.

Not sure what you mean by where they should be, but Prestige is also another measure of strength. It's employed in AQ. Simply put, an Ally is as strong as its strongest Champs. Where an Ally SHOULD be is where they fight and win to be. I can assure you, as long as there's nothing actively regulating it, you will have manipulation. You need something drastic because it is rampant. No gentle incentive will make a difference.

GroundedWisdom · March 2019

If Allies were Matched with Prestige alone, or Rating alone, what you're concerned about might be the case. Not when both Prestige and WR are. Eventually, they're going to be beaten out by Allies stronger than them, or they will win. That's fair. It's also worth pointing out you can't judge Allies based on their Rating, because people have been hopping in and out and going up and down Tiers left, right, and center. The system has been all over the place lately. People will try anything for an edge.

SummonerNR · March 2019

These 2 threads are getting way out of hand up here.
But I’ll offer a potential solution to the game of alliance swapping, shell alliances, etc...

Everyone should have some sort of INDIVIDUAL War Rating, that carries with them even when they change alliances (either wholesale with all your teammates too in case of ally swapping, or whether just individually moving to a new ally). Would also prevent lower level people from buying these high War Rating ally's (either just for a season, or permanently like after a top one truely does disband).

So a full squad could not just swap to their shell ally that had been losing all last season and get the benefit of easier matchups until they climb back up. That lower shell ally (now full of all their primary members again) would instantly be bumped up high because everyone's Individual War Rating would turn the ally back into a high War Rating ally.

Only war to “game” the system then would be if you actually sacrificed you account (losing wars somewhere) for a whole season.

xNig · March 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
If Allies were Matched with Prestige alone, or Rating alone, what you're concerned about might be the case. Not when both Prestige and WR are. Eventually, they're going to be beaten out by Allies stronger than them, or they will win. That's fair. It's also worth pointing out you can't judge Allies based on their Rating, because people have been hopping in and out and going up and down Tiers left, right, and center. The system has been all over the place lately. People will try anything for an edge.

The problem is they will not be matching with alliances stronger than them because Prestige is taken into account. 😒

Best case scenario is that they maintain a 50% win rate at their current war tier because they will be matching around their prestige. See the problem?

xNig · March 2019

SummonerNR said:
These 2 threads are getting way out of hand up here.
But I’ll offer a potential solution to the game of alliance swapping, shell alliances, etc...

Everyone should have some sort of INDIVIDUAL War Rating, that carries with them even when they change alliances (either wholesale with all your teammates too in case of ally swapping, or whether just individually moving to a new ally). Would also prevent lower level people from buying these high War Rating ally's (either just for a season, or permanently like after a top one truely does disband).

So a full squad could not just swap to their shell ally that had been losing all last season and get the benefit of easier matchups until they climb back up. That lower shell ally (now full of all their primary members again) would instantly be bumped up high because everyone's Individual War Rating would turn the ally back into a high War Rating ally.

Only war to “game” the system then would be if you actually sacrificed you account (losing wars somewhere) for a whole season.

Already suggested months ago bro.

Something is wrong with Matchmaking

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