@Kabam Miike glad you answered those questions. I have never got the 850 units to begin with. I opened two tickets with kabam one was closed for no reason and the other i’m waiting for a reply. I have made purchases that I should get compasented for the gb and I didn’t get anything. -IMAGE REMOVED-
Can you send me a PM with your in game username? Because it doesn't look like the one that is attached to this Forum Account ever had a Gifting Badge.
Hey, can we just let this thread die? Kabam has given us all the compensation they're willing to give for the time being. All these arguments are pointless. They've been repeating for the last twenty pages of the thread with no real progress being made. Just move on. If you haven't gotten the units, the moderators can't do anything about that. Either wait and see if it's just delayed or contact Kabam Support; no one here can help you. Kabam will decide how to best punish those involved in the exploitation of the Gifting system. Let the thread die. Please and thank you.
No, I'm upset. I've lost something of real value that was not sold or purchased with the expectation that it would be temporary. I provided alternatives to limit the usage of the gifting badge, which would suck but better than, it's abrupt removal, from the game.
I'm more concerned about the future impact of this decision. If we stay silent, Kabam thinks we're ok w/ the decision, and I'm not. Next time it's easier to do it again, and again.
Hey, can we just let this thread die? Kabam has given us all the compensation they're willing to give for the time being. All these arguments are pointless. They've been repeating for the last twenty pages of the thread with no real progress being made. Just move on. If you haven't gotten the units, the moderators can't do anything about that. Either wait and see if it's just delayed or contact Kabam Support; no one here can help you. Kabam will decide how to best punish those involved in the exploitation of the Gifting system. Let the thread die. Please and thank you.
No, I'm upset. I've lost something of real value that was not sold or purchased with the expectation that it would be temporary. I provided alternatives to limit the usage of the gifting badge, which would suck but better than, it's abrupt removal, from the game.
I'm more concerned about the future impact of this decision. If we stay silent, Kabam thinks we're ok w/ the decision, and I'm not. Next time it's easier to do it again, and again.
It was free and a digital service, there was no real value.
You are only looking at this from your narrow point of view. There is a larger impact here that you arent considering. Give them a chance to work out a solution.
This whole thing involves stolen information which means financial impact on people and your concern is if you can gift digital game content.
So, I see all the complaints and I’m right along with you. But here’s what I haven’t seen yet. What did Kabam actually do? Took away the badge, yes, but what does that really mean?
Kabam; You had people pay real money for this. We’re all saying that. And here’s what gets me. In no game in the history of ever that included a trade/gift/barter system has this not been a thing. So there’s absolutely no way you DIDN’T know this would happen. What you just did was sell consumers an item that you either planned to remove from the beginning, or didn’t make a plan to deal with it’s issues going forward. Either way, were it lack of research or lack of planning, you literally just stole money. In the same way an ebay seller may sell a false or retractable item to “take the money and run”, you sold us a retractable item, fully knowing the implications that came with it, with the intention to take it back or change it in the future.
It was free and a digital service, there was no real value.
No, you're wrong. I paid $30 of real US currency and bought the Gifting Badge. Digital yes, but not free. I'm financially impacted by the fact that I no longer have what I purchased.
If this is an issue about stolen credit cards, being used, then that's an issue that needs to be handled by Apple or Google at the account level to deal with In-App purchases.
Picture it this way. You order a thick juicy steak at your favorite steakhouse, and they bring you a "tube steak". You've paid $30 for your hot dog (a.k.a. tube steak.)
Maybe not the best analogy, but in no measure does a hot dog stack up to a steak in comparison, and if you pay for a steak and get a hot dog, you're not going to be happy either, even if the restaurant is trying to deal with cow fraud.
So, I see all the complaints and I’m right along with you. But here’s what I haven’t seen yet. What did Kabam actually do? Took away the badge, yes, but what does that really mean?
Kabam; You had people pay real money for this. We’re all saying that. And here’s what gets me. In no game in the history of ever that included a trade/gift/barter system has this not been a thing. So there’s absolutely no way you DIDN’T know this would happen. What you just did was sell consumers an item that you either planned to remove from the beginning, or didn’t make a plan to deal with it’s issues going forward. Either way, were it lack of research or lack of planning, you literally just stole money. In the same way an ebay seller may sell a false or retractable item to “take the money and run”, you sold us a retractable item, fully knowing the implications that came with it, with the intention to take it back or change it in the future.
As long as we're talking about crimes, you are aware that by making this statement, you have revoked your right to access and play the game, I assume. Continued access to the game could be a crime, perhaps multiple crimes. Theft of service, unauthorized access to an online computer system, there's a few statutes that could apply here.
The issue is this:
You acknowledge and agree that Virtual Currency and Site Items have no cash value and that neither Kabam nor any other person or entity has any obligation to exchange your Virtual Currency or Site Items for anything of value, including without limitation, real currency, and that, if your Account is terminated, suspended or otherwise modified or if your right to access the Services is terminated, the Virtual Currency, Site Items and your Account shall have no value.
Failure to agree to this clause in the game's terms of service invalidates the agreement you have to play the game. Absent a legal agreement to play the game, you have no right to access their computer systems. I'm not certain what statute would take precedence here, but I believe this is likely not just a civil dispute, but an actual crime with criminal penalties.
This applies to every player wishing to make the claim that they were deprived of a material item which had monetary value.
Just curious on how you feel that 800 units is adequate compensation when it cost the people who didn’t abuse the use of it $99.99 plus tax to acquire the badge? I feel like this is a joke and horrible leadership on Kabams part to not be able to manage a system that you implemented years ago. I know if I failed at my job I would be fired not be able to take it out on all of my customers.
Just curious on how you feel that 800 units is adequate compensation when it cost the people who didn’t abuse the use of it $99.99 plus tax to acquire the badge? I feel like this is a joke and horrible leadership on Kabams part to not be able to manage a system that you implemented years ago. I know if I failed at my job I would be fired not be able to take it out on all of my customers.
when did they sell the badge on it's own for 100 dollars?
Just curious on how you feel that 800 units is adequate compensation when it cost the people who didn’t abuse the use of it $99.99 plus tax to acquire the badge? I feel like this is a joke and horrible leadership on Kabams part to not be able to manage a system that you implemented years ago. I know if I failed at my job I would be fired not be able to take it out on all of my customers.
when did they sell the badge on it's own for 100 dollars?
Ther didt it was what he gav them he culd just decide to buy the lowers packs but then he haven’t bruget if for only the bag if he gav 100 then pretty sure it was the unit
This seems to shed some light on why exactly the gifting badge has been removed for everyone.. sadly this video would suggest that the issue may have been resolved by banning only a few people.. for some reason that doesn't seem to have been possible.. this video may provide a reason why..
All I have to say is that if/when Kabam brings the gifting badge back they better give it to everyone for free! We shouldn't have to pay REAL money TWICE for something because some players hacked into the game and messed stuff up! And we shouldnt have to use our UNITS again for it either! When they bring it back it should be free or given to everyone that initially had it!
So, I see all the complaints and I’m right along with you. But here’s what I haven’t seen yet. What did Kabam actually do? Took away the badge, yes, but what does that really mean?
Kabam; You had people pay real money for this. We’re all saying that. And here’s what gets me. In no game in the history of ever that included a trade/gift/barter system has this not been a thing. So there’s absolutely no way you DIDN’T know this would happen. What you just did was sell consumers an item that you either planned to remove from the beginning, or didn’t make a plan to deal with it’s issues going forward. Either way, were it lack of research or lack of planning, you literally just stole money. In the same way an ebay seller may sell a false or retractable item to “take the money and run”, you sold us a retractable item, fully knowing the implications that came with it, with the intention to take it back or change it in the future.
Okay, let's hit the Clutch and put it in Reverse. They did not steal any money. They had a Feature that was accessible through purchasing their Unit Pack. The value of it was literally 0 because the Unit Pack was the purchase. People elected to pay for it, under the same TOS Agreement as everyone else, in which it was stated that they reserve the right to modify their product if necessary. People received EXACTLY what was in the Offer. They used it for YEARS, and as a result, a number of issues arose because THE CONSUMER found one method after another to abuse it. The onus is on the Consumer. They did not plan to remove it from the beginning. That would have been one patient rug to pull, considering it's been around for at least 3 years, that's how long I've been here. If you're suggesting they executed poor planning because they didn't anticipate people committing Credit Fraud, or starting their own Black Market for Services, that's about as out there as the people who would come up with such ideas. They created it so people could honestly and legitimately help each other out. Not so people could start a back-end exploitation for real money. That couldn't have been foreseen. At least not by any sane mind creating a Feature. It takes a special type of dishonest individual to come up with something like that. The bottom line is, it was created for the Players, and the Players done ####ed it up. Now, no one can use it because it's a liability, and the only ones who are to blame are the ones who milked it.
For all that are saying the gifting badge is of 0 value. Does that apply to all side benefits of bought packs? Next time they offer a benefit with an Odin, you are ok with them offering it, then when bought removing all the items that were offered except the units? I doubt it.
Edit: I should add, I have no issue of them removing the gifting badge to stop this behaviour, but a) there needs to be compensation and b) I do think players that benefited from this process need to be permanently banned.
I think Kabam have gone a long way towards sorting a) but definitely not b)
When I say the value was 0, I'm highlighting the fact that they were charged nothing extra for it. The Packs are the same price with or without the Badge. Now, obviously the Badge is not worthless. We wouldn't be discussing it if it were. However, the argument that people paid that much for the Badge is not accurate. As for banning the ones responsible, that would go without saying, but they wouldn't really be operating out of their own Accounts, and therein lies the problem with just banning them. They'd just move on to the next Alt. As for their Main, I would like to think if they could identify it, they would be banned. Obviously, they won't talk about actions, but I'm pretty sure that much would go without saying. Anyone responsible for this should get the hard boot. I don't usually say things like that, but yeah. If it were my choice, that's grounds for Account termination.
Keyword, identify. It might seem unfair, but that's the sneaky part about it. They can't go on screenshots and word-of-mouth. They have to have quantifiable proof within the data of the game to associate the people responsible with the actions. I highly doubt they were that careless, but I sure do hope they were. Not a fan whatsoever.
Yes but at the same time you can’t argue at certain times people buy unit packs for the bonuses rather then the unit packs themselves, the units actually become the bonus, I can definitely say that has been my thought process a few times (to be honest I can’t remember my thought process when getting the gifting badge).
Now in regards to the bans, maybe you can’t ban the people behind the fraud but you can ban the people that accepted the fraud, there should be nothing stopping Kabam working with apple and Google to understand which accounts had the fraudulent money and who they gifted to
Keyword, identify. It might seem unfair, but that's the sneaky part about it. They can't go on screenshots and word-of-mouth. They have to have quantifiable proof within the data of the game to associate the people responsible with the actions. I highly doubt they were that careless, but I sure do hope they were. Not a fan whatsoever.
Agreed and that is why I think they need to go after people that benefited from it, cause I can GUARANTEE that the people running the fraud gifted to their main account at some stage
I don't really follow that line of thinking. People may have been more excited to get the Badge, but the Units were the Offer. There's a reason it was no extra charge. Just my perspective I guess.
In terms of the bans, all you can prove is people received Gifts. Arrangements were made outside the game for real money, and in return people received Gifts from Fraudsters. It's a very sneaky operation. It's really unclear. I'm more concerned with the perpetrators than victims. I find it much more plausible that some people just wanted Gifts. Although I wouldn't argue if they did get punished. That's the thing about it, how do you determine who was a victim and who knew these people were stealing? I doubt they said they were selling Gifts as a result of Fraud.
Have you never bought unit packs for the bonuses over the packs themselves? I certainly have.
Edit: if you buy something well below market value, you lose the excuse that you weren’t aware that something wasn’t dodgy. This is in regards to saying people may not be aware it was fraud
I buy for the Units. The Bonuses are nice, but I bought for the Units either way.
I guess that is where the difference of opinion lies, I can definitely say I have bought unit packs for the bonuses and seen the units themselves as the bonus. Others are saying they have never done this. I can definitely see how people bought the unit pack for the gifting badge and the the units were a bonus, this was not all people’s thought process but it would have been some
Have you never bought unit packs for the bonuses over the packs themselves? I certainly have.
Edit: if you buy something well below market value, you lose the excuse that you weren’t aware that something wasn’t dodgy. This is in regards to saying people may not be aware it was fraud
The Fraud came from the method they were making purchases. The Black Market is a whole other ball of wax in which people were selling Services that were not legit. In my opinion, illegal. That debate was a couple pages ago. LOL. Even still, they were selling Items under Kabam's nose for real money. I'm not saying the buyers shouldn't be punished, and I'm not saying they should. All I'm saying is it's entirely possible people saw the Ad and just wanted discount swag. It's entirely possible. Look at how many people get had by Ads on Facebook or other sources for Units and the like. It's not unheard of that some were just victims.
I'm not saying the buyers shouldn't be punished, and I'm not saying they should. All I'm saying is it's entirely possible people saw the Ad and just wanted discount swag. It's entirely possible.
It is and what I am saying is that I am ok with them getting permanently banned even if they didn’t realise, they still accepted stolen goods and ruined it for everyone else.
kabam, you did the right thing topping up the units to 850 for eliminating the gifting badge. But why is it that you only ever do the right thing AFTER an outcry from the player base? Why don’t you have someone on staff that makes the right decision to begin with? This is a pattern for this company, and it sucks.
[...] A better way would be to use a new resource that acts exactly like units, but can only be earned in game and only allow that to be used for gifting. It solves all the problems.
I agree. We should have more ways to farm items in the game that you cannot simply "buy" with cash. I think farming and earning things in a reasonable fashion is what helps an MMORPG game feel like an MMORPG.
Comments
I'm more concerned about the future impact of this decision. If we stay silent, Kabam thinks we're ok w/ the decision, and I'm not. Next time it's easier to do it again, and again.
You are only looking at this from your narrow point of view. There is a larger impact here that you arent considering. Give them a chance to work out a solution.
This whole thing involves stolen information which means financial impact on people and your concern is if you can gift digital game content.
Kabam; You had people pay real money for this. We’re all saying that. And here’s what gets me. In no game in the history of ever that included a trade/gift/barter system has this not been a thing. So there’s absolutely no way you DIDN’T know this would happen. What you just did was sell consumers an item that you either planned to remove from the beginning, or didn’t make a plan to deal with it’s issues going forward. Either way, were it lack of research or lack of planning, you literally just stole money. In the same way an ebay seller may sell a false or retractable item to “take the money and run”, you sold us a retractable item, fully knowing the implications that came with it, with the intention to take it back or change it in the future.
I'm financially impacted by the fact that I no longer have what I purchased.
If this is an issue about stolen credit cards, being used, then that's an issue that needs to be handled by Apple or Google at the account level to deal with In-App purchases.
Picture it this way. You order a thick juicy steak at your favorite steakhouse, and they bring you a "tube steak". You've paid $30 for your hot dog (a.k.a. tube steak.)
Maybe not the best analogy, but in no measure does a hot dog stack up to a steak in comparison, and if you pay for a steak and get a hot dog, you're not going to be happy either, even if the restaurant is trying to deal with cow fraud.
The issue is this: Failure to agree to this clause in the game's terms of service invalidates the agreement you have to play the game. Absent a legal agreement to play the game, you have no right to access their computer systems. I'm not certain what statute would take precedence here, but I believe this is likely not just a civil dispute, but an actual crime with criminal penalties.
This applies to every player wishing to make the claim that they were deprived of a material item which had monetary value.
They did not steal any money. They had a Feature that was accessible through purchasing their Unit Pack.
The value of it was literally 0 because the Unit Pack was the purchase. People elected to pay for it, under the same TOS Agreement as everyone else, in which it was stated that they reserve the right to modify their product if necessary.
People received EXACTLY what was in the Offer. They used it for YEARS, and as a result, a number of issues arose because THE CONSUMER found one method after another to abuse it. The onus is on the Consumer.
They did not plan to remove it from the beginning. That would have been one patient rug to pull, considering it's been around for at least 3 years, that's how long I've been here.
If you're suggesting they executed poor planning because they didn't anticipate people committing Credit Fraud, or starting their own Black Market for Services, that's about as out there as the people who would come up with such ideas.
They created it so people could honestly and legitimately help each other out. Not so people could start a back-end exploitation for real money. That couldn't have been foreseen. At least not by any sane mind creating a Feature. It takes a special type of dishonest individual to come up with something like that.
The bottom line is, it was created for the Players, and the Players done ####ed it up. Now, no one can use it because it's a liability, and the only ones who are to blame are the ones who milked it.
Edit: I should add, I have no issue of them removing the gifting badge to stop this behaviour, but a) there needs to be compensation and b) I do think players that benefited from this process need to be permanently banned.
I think Kabam have gone a long way towards sorting a) but definitely not b)
As for banning the ones responsible, that would go without saying, but they wouldn't really be operating out of their own Accounts, and therein lies the problem with just banning them. They'd just move on to the next Alt. As for their Main, I would like to think if they could identify it, they would be banned. Obviously, they won't talk about actions, but I'm pretty sure that much would go without saying. Anyone responsible for this should get the hard boot. I don't usually say things like that, but yeah. If it were my choice, that's grounds for Account termination.
Now in regards to the bans, maybe you can’t ban the people behind the fraud but you can ban the people that accepted the fraud, there should be nothing stopping Kabam working with apple and Google to understand which accounts had the fraudulent money and who they gifted to
In terms of the bans, all you can prove is people received Gifts. Arrangements were made outside the game for real money, and in return people received Gifts from Fraudsters. It's a very sneaky operation. It's really unclear. I'm more concerned with the perpetrators than victims. I find it much more plausible that some people just wanted Gifts. Although I wouldn't argue if they did get punished. That's the thing about it, how do you determine who was a victim and who knew these people were stealing? I doubt they said they were selling Gifts as a result of Fraud.
Edit: if you buy something well below market value, you lose the excuse that you weren’t aware that something wasn’t dodgy. This is in regards to saying people may not be aware it was fraud
I'm not saying the buyers shouldn't be punished, and I'm not saying they should. All I'm saying is it's entirely possible people saw the Ad and just wanted discount swag. It's entirely possible. Look at how many people get had by Ads on Facebook or other sources for Units and the like. It's not unheard of that some were just victims.