How many docks does it take for players to stop modding in AW Seasons?

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,523 ★★★★★
    chunkyb said:

    I'm not being contrarian. Someone posts a Vid of a Fight that Iceman seemingly looks as though he's a skilled Player, I'm asking questions. There's a very good possibility they are. I just don't assume for certain either way. If I suspect someone is, I report it and let them determine it. Only ever had to once. I tend to question until proven because as much as cheating is taking place, it's still important to give the benefit of the doubt. There's also Cheating Fever that comes with every War Season where people become super competitive and assume Losses are the result of cheating. I'm not really disputing anyone's claim here, but you can't deny that every Season that becomes an argument for many Losses. So no, I don't assume 100%. I leave it to them to find when I'm suspicious. Anything outside of them proving it and taking action won't do any good.

    No one here is assuming anything.
    I'll direct you to my first post in this thread which covered what players know and how they know it. There aren't many mysteries in this game with the proper amount of experience.

    But one day, I hope to be skilled enough to will my power bar to fill constantly and to will the defender's to almost not move.
    First off, I didn't notice the Power Bar at first. That's why I asked. Then I asked if any Nodes were capable of influencing it. It's called process of deduction.
    The OP stated that they sent a Ticket. Do you think something will happen immediately? No.
    No matter how you look at it, reporting someone won't result in knocking them off the board the next day.
  • Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    chunkyb said:

    How many times is reporting it and leaving it to them ok when there's no action taken?

    That's the frustration being voiced (and the actual topic) in this thread.

    When you play a game for 4 years, 4 to 8 or more hours a day, and especially at high levels... You have an intimate knowledge of what is possible and what is not possible in this game. It's not mysticism or science, it simply is game knowledge.

    When you (and a few hundred others with the same game knowledge that regularly communicate with each other) play against one of 3 particular alliances season after season, you see all you need to see.

    When you (and a few hundred others) monitor these 3 alliances over the course of several seasons, you also see when action has been taken and when action has not been taken. You know the signs, you know the blowback. None of it is there.

    When you (and a few hundred others) see a pattern of behavior that isn't stopping because of temporary bans or points docks, when you see the methods used starting to spread, when you see players bouncing to other alliances to repeat the process... You see exactly what's happening.

    This thread isn't about guesswork, it's not baseless allegations, it's not crying over losses or lack of rewards. It's high level, knowledgeable, long-term players LITERALLY begging kabam to up their game FOR THE GAME ITSELF.

    It's players trying to properly use the reporting protocol as designed to beg kabam to take appropriate action. And it's players telling kabam that those reporting protocols and the system of checks in place as of now have simply failed.

    No one is asking for a hand-written letter laying out information that shouldn't be laid out. The only thing anyone wants is to know they're heard, know that Kabam is taking this extremely seriously, and know that Kabam is putting a laser focus on an issue that has been ongoing (by the same group of cheaters) for at least 3 seasons. That's all. Then, everyone can sit back and wait, allow kabam to do their thing.

    So, we're waiting.

    Whoops. It wasn't the first. Or the second. But both those were awesome tbh. Def worth reading.

    It was this one I was referring to.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,523 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    Having XP boosts ran at tier 1 AW doesn’t make sense, at all. If the poster was a noob then maybe. But obviously he won’t be one in Tier 1.

    This made me laugh only because I got called out for this in one of my war videos. Item use grind got me on Integral’s hacker list. 2nd best thing to happen last week after my summoner showdown experience.
    How did you make out?
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,777 ★★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.


    How did you make out?

    I managed to win. Phenomenal experience. Bayeee Atreiu and Brian are super chill people. Very cool to meet Brian in person after playing for 4loki for a few months. Marvel has some amazing people working for them. Their interns are good people too. Very much looking forward to competing in the finals with @chunkyb and the others who qualify.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,523 ★★★★★


    How did you make out?

    I managed to win. Phenomenal experience. Bayeee Atreiu and Brian are super chill people. Very cool to meet Brian in person after playing for 4loki for a few months. Marvel has some amazing people working for them. Their interns are good people too. Very much looking forward to competing in the finals with @chunkyb and the others who qualify.
    Great job! I haven't had time to catch up with everything. Been working a lot. Congrats to the others as well. It'll be a good Final for sure.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 3,805 ★★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.


    How did you make out?

    I managed to win. Phenomenal experience. Bayeee Atreiu and Brian are super chill people. Very cool to meet Brian in person after playing for 4loki for a few months. Marvel has some amazing people working for them. Their interns are good people too. Very much looking forward to competing in the finals with @chunkyb and the others who qualify.
    Only NA people, sadly. Would have loved to be there 😂
  • RapRap Posts: 2,542 ★★★
    There are further complications to this issue. There may be modders in an alliance and there may be some oblivious to that fact in the alliance. If someone is a party to and aware of the cheating and remain in the alliance that is different but how do you prove it one way or the other?
  • Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Rap said:

    There are further complications to this issue. There may be modders in an alliance and there may be some oblivious to that fact in the alliance. If someone is a party to and aware of the cheating and remain in the alliance that is different but how do you prove it one way or the other?

    Simple. Focus on a vast, overall improvement to mod identification methods. Use the current, long-going situation as a means to getting better at keeping the game clean. Make a decision to intensely scrutinize the "most competitive, most lucrative", and most visible game mode. Run checks on every match, even if it delays leaderboard updates. Sure, we want to know placement... But wouldn't a huge majority of players be ok with waiting longer if they knew that cheaters were being dealt with properly?

    Beyond that, perma-bans are needed. Mod users aren't confused about what they're doing. It's 100% intentional. There should be no second chances and there's no solid argument against that. Same for bot users and dirty units. Beyond the initial perma-bans taking out the trash, they would also deter other players from taking the risk and trying a new method to subvert the identification system.

    *The temp bans have ONLY taught cheaters what they need to do better to avoid being caught.*

    Start nuking these accounts completely. Others will be too worried to take the risk, and that worry will increase IF kabam follows thru over time. Season points and docks don't matter and don't do the intended job. Those are fine for piloting purposes but this is a totally different animal.

    This game is now mature enough that the wrist slap phase is past. It's a huge game, huge money maker, and a huge player base. Time to treat it as one.

  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,080 ★★★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.
  • djr17djr17 Posts: 510 ★★

    djr17 said:

    _ASDF_ said:

    djr17 said:

    In a vacuum, I might be inclined to agree with you. However, since the loss to the cheating ally also reduced your war rating, it also effects the next ally you face. Do they deserve compensation for a war opponent they should not have faced due to the cheating ally?

    The only thing that affects the integrity of the leaderboard, is the presence of a cheating ally. To maintain integrity, they need to be disqualified from war participation, and removed from the leaderboard altogether. Any other adjustment would be 'correcting' for one by hurting others.

    Clearly it’s misunderstood, as it would be understood in nearly every competition that one party is disqualified and the win falls to the next in line. Ie the losing team. If you disagree, would love to see the plethora of competitions that count both parties as losers. 😂
    So you or someone else can say they are irrelevant because they do not match the situation, but some other example over here that does support your position is, even though said example matches exactly the same as one I would provide?

    No thank you.
    You provided "examples" of USC, in which wins were vacated years later because of improper benefits to people that weren't actually playing on the field, and a minor infraction (deflategate) that, rumor has it, takes place all over the place in football, and by virtue of the Patriot's subsequent play had little actual effect on their ability to win football games. If you really can't, or won't see how these don't apply I guess we will leave it at "no thank you." No thank you makes as much sense as your examples. Do you really dispute that this is how disqualifications are handled? Your examples weren't of disqualifications. Can we say with 100% certainty that Carl Lewis would have outrun Ben Johnson? Nope. Doesn't matter. Ben Johnson is disqualified. Where are the examples where one side is disqualified for the kind of cheating that results in disqualification and no winners are the result?

    I, and Kabam's actions show they, see the situation as a vacated win, which means the example I originally gave of USC is similar, though the violation was much, much smaller.

    You, and others, give examples of DQ's. In a race. Where the subsequent finishers are easily shown.

    . If you really can't, or won't see how these don't apply I guess we will leave it at "no thank you."

  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★
    edited August 19

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    Mods are localized, therefore hard to detect, especially when you have limited control over the device. I remember my Everquest days, I ran a show EQ server that would tell me where all the data was. Sony got smart and started scaning the process list for the showeq binaries. This worked if showeq was running on the machine, but my instance was running on another machine on the same network.

    Some mods are easier than others to catch. An emulator running that does not mass the proper environmental variables to the client will be easy to catch, and emulator that passes the proper variables and imputs will be near impossible for instance.

    In addition a lot of time when someones claims someone is modding the other team had legit ways to do what they did but the other team just does not think that far ahead.
  • Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    I don't buy the money stuff. Kabam loses money big time on mods, bots, and dirty units. It's kinda counter-intuitive to think that people using various cheating methods to not spend are at the same time spending truckloads of cash to "prop" the game up. I'd think that killing those 3 things would be a top priority for them in order to increase profits.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,523 ★★★★★

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 563 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
    For once I actually agree with you. Chunkyb had a more to the point disagreement with my previous post and seeing it that way I completely agree.

    This needs to be stopped however I haven't seen it get any better in the last 3-4 seasons. The same groups/people modding to no end.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
    For once I actually agree with you. Chunkyb had a more to the point disagreement with my previous post and seeing it that way I completely agree.

    This needs to be stopped however I haven't seen it get any better in the last 3-4 seasons. The same groups/people modding to no end.
    evidence?
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 563 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Lormif said:

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
    For once I actually agree with you. Chunkyb had a more to the point disagreement with my previous post and seeing it that way I completely agree.

    This needs to be stopped however I haven't seen it get any better in the last 3-4 seasons. The same groups/people modding to no end.
    evidence?
    If the videos people post of Thing bosses being solod in 30 seconds by a Magik or a Champion boss being solod by an ogv in less than a minute aren't enough then I'm not sure what other proof you need.

    There are definitely a lot of people that just cry wolf when they got beat fair and square but this is a real problem at the top of the game.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Honest question: How does Kabam benefit from not perma-banning cheaters? It makes no sense to me, other than financial profit, why they would allot ppl to mod their game or purchase fraud units.

    You kind of just figured it out lol. Financial profit is a big reason.

    Integrity be damned when you have whale accounts that are too big to perma ban.

    We're 11 seasons in and still talking about the same stuff. Admittedly piloting was more prevalent than modding which has been pretty much handled however we're in the dark ages of mod identification. All the money this game makes it seems kind of crazy to me that mods aren't immediately identified.
    You think cheating people pay? Not unless they're stealing to do it, and those cases are dealt with. No. They're not allowing people to break TOS just because they spend.
    For once I actually agree with you. Chunkyb had a more to the point disagreement with my previous post and seeing it that way I completely agree.

    This needs to be stopped however I haven't seen it get any better in the last 3-4 seasons. The same groups/people modding to no end.
    evidence?
    If the videos people post of Thing bosses being solod in 30 seconds by a Magik or a Champion boss being solod by an ogv in less than a minute aren't enough then I'm not sure what other proof you need.

    There are definitely a lot of people that just cry wolf when they got beat fair and square but this is a real problem at the top of the game.
    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,777 ★★★★★
    edited August 19
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,957 ★★★★★
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
  • RektorRektor Posts: 624 ★★★
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Again with the desire to convince people whose opinions have zero effect on kabam’s decision making.

    Let them talk to themselves.
  • RakeYoungRakeYoung Posts: 102
    Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.
    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    youre still on this thread and now it's devolved into you arguing what the world "pervasive" means? Come on man. How is anything you just posted remotely constructive at all? You even admitted that people are modding, but then regressed into yet again arguing with people about semantics and trying to play devils advocate to people who are much higher up than you in this game who are CORRECT in what they're saying. Even kabam has admitted cheating was a problem in war and have done things over the seasons to correct it, but people who are playing fairly are ENTITLED (yes i know this board hates this word) to ask for it to be fixed without a back and forth on if it's real or not. It's real and has been for a while. Sorry that you want to quantify the word "pervasive" but if top groups are doing it multiple seasons in a row that's enough for me. What is even your goal here in this conversation? Telling people that cheating isn't as big of a deal as they've been saying? Do you really think that's either a well constructed logical stance or are you just trying to troll?
    This entire thread is based around the premise that it is widespread, pervasive. Arguing that it is now immaterial is pretty silly.
    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    chunkyb said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Its possibly enough for that instance, but it is not enough for the claim of it being pervasive. also "30" in terms of who, the person modding, or the defensive team watching? it is hard to gauge time just watching the map, as it can delay between actions, or go instantaneously.

    Read over evidence players have presented before playing devil’s advocate. Under every possible circumstance Vision will never solo a tier 1 war boss under 30 seconds. As previously stated multiple times, the players are able to tell when opponents have begun war fights when the in-game displayed above defenders resets to 3 minutes.
    I have done so, a couple of instances of it, again, does not prove pervasive. Logic 101.
    Main points here are:

    -This has been going on for a long time.
    -There's a consistent, long-term usage by a few allis.. Probably not everyone in the alliances, but a lot of them.
    -Doesn't matter what anyone believes either way.
    If there was more solid proof, it would have been sent around by now and this convo wouldn't be taking place. No one is asking you or any other player to be the jury. Nobody cares about that at all. Those that know what's going on, know what's going on.
    -Kabam hasn't been able to successfully ID it and the game is suffering bc of that. Each day/war that passes, things are getting worse.
    -Only thing anyone is asking for is that Kabam improve its cheat detection and perma-ban cheaters.

    Reality 101.
    Your main points are a lot of speculation, not really reality 101.. Look at most of the reports on the forums about "modding" and you see things that are in no way modding the player just doest know what is going on. Sure there is modding happening, and kabam does a pretty decent job of penalizing those players, but this thread makes it seem like this is some pervasive problem to the point that people are panicing over it, and posting more non modding occurances as though it is modding.

    If you are going to make these types of accusations against people, and kabam, you need the actual solid proof you dont have. This acknowledgement about the lack of more solid prof makes your statement about it getting worse all the sillier.

    if they catch cheaters they should be permaban, that is the only real reality in this thread.
    1- I don't speculate
    2- I don't post without knowledge
    3- you're assuming that I (and others) don't actually know. I can't help you with that. Or won't.
    4- I'm not "most people on the forums". Not that I'm special, I'm not. But I do know stuff and don't cry wolf.
    5- there IS a pervasive problem, but people aren't panicking.. They're considering foregoing war or the game altogether. That is something kabam needs to know.
    6- no one here in this thread has posted "non-modding" occurrences.
    7- again, your beliefs aren't at the heart of any of this. I respect them, but they are immaterial to the issue at hand. While i agree that many (or most) accusations on the forum are false and waste everyone's time, I wouldn't be in this thread if it wasn't the real deal.
    8- none of that will sway you, but again... That's not my goal. None of us here that know what's going on are laying out a "case". We started that 3 seasons ago. Everyone at kabam has the hard evidence. What we're here for is to shout with one voice that they HAVE to do better going forward and that they NEED to rework their punishments appropriately.

    That's all. Not knowing something is reality doesn't make it not so.
    - You ARE speculating.
    - knowledge of something is relative.
    - I assume nothing, I am going by what you are stating here, and the fact that you cant, or wont put up is part of the problem.
    - If you are claiming this is pervasive then you are crying wolf, as you stated many, or most of the accusations are false, if it were pervasive many or most would be true, as that is what pervasive is, meaning it is widespread happening everywhere. Not just the top alliances would be seeing it, would be seeing it EVERYWHERE.
    - You say people are not panicking but admit people are posting fake occurrences, many of them listing this same thread as the reason WHY they are worried it is happening..
    - Yes modding is happening, at the very highest level, by a small group of individuals and needs to be taken care of. That however is not what pervasive is.
    Again, I respect your assumptions but they're immaterial and providing any proof for you is neither what i intend to do nor is it what is necessary for things to go the way they should. Winning you over is not a goal. Neither is continuing the discussion with you as we're derailing the thread completely and I don't want to do that. I'm simply not here to educate you on anything or argue word meanings and their applications. That sort of thing goes on too much in the forum and already has taken over this thread twice.
    So much for that one voice thing you stated in your previous post, guess it is here to scare people in to thinking it is pervasive so they will stand with you to try and force something.
    I'd hate for kabam to improve their system and actually catch cheaters.. You've won me over with your deft arguments! Long live cheaters (as long as some people are ignorant to what actually happens in the game and applies the "I'll talk until I get the last word" methodology)!
    so now you are going for the strawman fallacy... They should improve the game and catch cheaters, they should not be strong armed into refocusing resources to solve a problem that is only affecting a few alliances at the very top unless they decide that is worth the value. Especially by people using deceptive phrases to work the community into a frenzy.
    I'm curious, so because it only affects a small group of alliances at the top, its not worth investing resources on Kabams part to fix it?

    when its that same small number of groups at the top that happily spend money on the game for fun or the competitive aspect?

    little old me in Gold 2 would be more inclined to push my alliance harder if it didnt involve the potential grief of running into modding alliances.
This discussion has been closed.