How many docks does it take for players to stop modding in AW Seasons?

DTMelodicMetal

Keep the thread constructive

MaRvEl_MoNsTeR

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

You would think kabam would want to stop these guys from using mods. The players don’t die so less money for kabam. Then it puts non cheating players out and making them not take war seriously which also means the don’t spend to push.

It’s insane to think how many times they have been docked and still going strong. They are taking war victory prizes away from honest alliances as well as season end placement slots. Pushing folks down that might have been on the line to the next tier.

People have reported them over and over and still kabam just hides the post.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said:

You would think kabam would want to stop these guys from using mods. The players don’t die so less money for kabam. Then it puts non cheating players out and making them not take war seriously which also means the don’t spend to push.

It’s insane to think how many times they have been docked and still going strong. They are taking war victory prizes away from honest alliances as well as season end placement slots. Pushing folks down that might have been on the line to the next tier.

People have reported them over and over and still kabam just hides the post.

I agree with most of this. I don’t think stopping modders is as easy as we think it is. At some point it becomes clear that rehabilitation is not going to happen for certain players. Consequences used for the last 6 months have not had their intended effect. Something more severe is needed.

SiriusBreak

To be quite honest, we haven't ran into an Alliance modding in awhile. We used to see 2-3 almost every Season until fairly recently. I guess we've lucked out by the sound of it. Although, point docks occur for piloting too. So if the subject is solely about 'docking' not being a solid deterrent for cheating in general, perhaps that holds some water considering players continue to bend and break rules listed in the ToS.

Call me a softie, but 1st time offenders should be allotted a second chance. Repeat offenders on the other hand, perhaps something more severe should be done. I saw a fair number of 'permanently banned' posts pop up on the forum last Season, so perhaps more severe measures are being taken. Although, at least by the sound of it, there's some known repeat offenders still on the loose. Just the same, that could be speculation as the details of actions taken against those that violated the ToS aren't made public knowledge.

While certain Alliances may in fact be repeatedly docked season to season, that may not mean it was the same players that caused the aforementioned point docks. In some cases, just might be bad luck in recruitment. In others... well... I honestly don't know. Unfortunately, due to the nature of cheaters, this will be an ongoing issue. Even if it became common knowledge that more severe punishments were being issued, it's hard to say that it would put a stop to everything. Logically speaking though, it should help.

Greywarden

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

Apparently there needs to be 10+ seasons of it. Realistically the punishment isn’t severe enough and the docking is typically done towards the end of the season AFTER the damage is done. Yes, they EVENTUALLY get what they deserve but that’s after they negatively impacted clean alliances in a war they won by cheating.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

SiriusBreak said:

To be quite honest, we haven't ran into an Alliance modding in awhile. We used to see 2-3 almost every Season until fairly recently. I guess we've lucked out by the sound of it. Although, point docks occur for piloting too. So if the subject is solely about 'docking' not being a solid deterrent for cheating in general, perhaps that holds some water considering players continue to bend and break rules listed in the ToS.

Call me a softie, but 1st time offenders should be allotted a second chance. Repeat offenders on the other hand, perhaps something more severe should be done. I saw a fair number of 'permanently banned' posts pop up on the forum last Season, so perhaps more severe measures are being taken. Although, at least by the sound of it, there's some known repeat offenders still on the loose. Just the same, that could be speculation as the details of actions taken against those that violated the ToS aren't made public knowledge.

While certain Alliances may in fact be repeatedly docked season to season, that may not mean it was the same players that caused the aforementioned point docks. In some cases, just might be bad luck in recruitment. In others... well... I honestly don't know. Unfortunately, due to the nature of cheaters, this will be an ongoing issue. Even if it became common knowledge that more severe punishments were being issued, it's hard to say that it would put a stop to everything. Logically speaking though, it should help.

I appreciate your detailed response @SiriusBreak. Can I ask what tier of war your alliance is in? I’m asking because this problem is less common outside of tier 1.

My alliance matched two alliances that were docked last season, both within our 1st five wars of the season. The 2nd alliance that we matched was docked was clearly modding against us. That alliance went on to beat other veteran master tier war alliances and finished in master last season. I’m not able to give more information about that alliance because of the forum’s privacy rules, bit that alliance was in 3rd place in season 11 after their first war and finished their 2nd war with 2 deaths in tier 1.

I do agree that 1st time mod offenders should be given a 2nd chance. This thread is not targeted at such players. It doesn’t take an advanced degree in Psychology to know that players who’ve been banned 5+ times have no intentions to stop using mods.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Milan1405

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

Don't just dock them. Repeated offenders should be temporarily banned, then permanently if done again.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

GluteusMaximus said:

you can ban accounts easy, and I've a running list from the last 4 years of dead accounts (true story: dead modded accounts have a tendency to turn into "." after a while, which makes it impossible to find them later). What you can't do effectively is ban the individuals who create/manage/run/distribute accounts, since you can always 1) create fake Google/apple accounts 2) create fake emails 3)use burner devices to play on. "Righteous" players may flip out at perceived cheating, but bottom line is every process to catch cheating, for better or worse, will always be reactionary and incomplete. After all, even the cleanest water/ food has an "acceptable" level of toxins and critter poo in it.

All valid points. Implement severe enough consequences for modding and most players wouldn’t take the risk. ABA 101.

GroundedWisdom

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

GroundedWisdom said:

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

I think an alternative to the ban hammer could be compensating players/alliances that are cheated out of rewards from losing to modders. Like @MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said, players stop investing in AW when they lose to opponents who cheat.

SiriusBreak

DTMelodicMetal said:

SiriusBreak said:

To be quite honest, we haven't ran into an Alliance modding in awhile. We used to see 2-3 almost every Season until fairly recently. I guess we've lucked out by the sound of it. Although, point docks occur for piloting too. So if the subject is solely about 'docking' not being a solid deterrent for cheating in general, perhaps that holds some water considering players continue to bend and break rules listed in the ToS.

Call me a softie, but 1st time offenders should be allotted a second chance. Repeat offenders on the other hand, perhaps something more severe should be done. I saw a fair number of 'permanently banned' posts pop up on the forum last Season, so perhaps more severe measures are being taken. Although, at least by the sound of it, there's some known repeat offenders still on the loose. Just the same, that could be speculation as the details of actions taken against those that violated the ToS aren't made public knowledge.

While certain Alliances may in fact be repeatedly docked season to season, that may not mean it was the same players that caused the aforementioned point docks. In some cases, just might be bad luck in recruitment. In others... well... I honestly don't know. Unfortunately, due to the nature of cheaters, this will be an ongoing issue. Even if it became common knowledge that more severe punishments were being issued, it's hard to say that it would put a stop to everything. Logically speaking though, it should help.

I appreciate your detailed response @SiriusBreak. Can I ask what tier of war your alliance is in? I’m asking because this problem is less common outside of tier 1.

My alliance matched two alliances that were docked last season, both within our 1st five wars of the season. The 2nd alliance that we matched was docked was clearly modding against us. That alliance went on to beat other veteran master tier war alliances and finished in master last season. I’m not able to give more information about that alliance because of the forum’s privacy rules, bit that alliance was in 3rd place in season 11 after their first war and finished their 2nd war with 2 deaths in tier 1.

I do agree that 1st time mod offenders should be given a 2nd chance. This thread is not targeted at such players. It doesn’t take an advanced degree in Psychology to know that players who’ve been banned 5+ times have no intentions to stop using mods.

@DTMelodicMetal Tier 4 currently. What's weird is it was a bigger problem when we were in tiers 6 and 5. Since we've moved up to 4, it's been far less prevalent than prior. It's tragic that the top tier players are pulling this garbage. Are they so scared to play straight up that they feel the need to cheat?

Perhaps, and maybe this is a longshot here, but perhaps the problem originates from unrealistic expectations? Those that have played for a longtime (heck, played in general really) know that you can't win them all. Occasionally, even the best botch a fight or 2. Be it from player error or uncontrollable circumstances (glitches, bugs, lag, or connectivity issues), it doesn't really matter. Things happen.

I think there's this need for perfection up there and some are willing to do ANYTHING to make that a reality. Now, I'm curious, what's more prevalent in your experience at tier 1. Defense mods, or attack based mods? Or is it a heavy mixture of both? Whatever the case may be, it seems that it all stems from not wanting to accept anything less than perfection (or as close as one can get anyway). Which is just... tragic. It's a game.

Occasionally, you have to accept that defeat is a possibility. Removing it from the equation essentially kills the point of the game entirely in my eyes. Games are meant to be lost from time to time. How can you truly enjoy winning if you're not overcoming defeat? It's more sad to me than anything that people feel so powerless that they resort to cheating.

My crew is on a 8 win streak right now and it feels freaking AMAZING! (6 Off Season, 2 Season) No mods, no pilots, no corners cut. Just killer teamwork and doing our best. Sure, we lost a fair amount of ABs, just not as many as our opponents is all, lol. I wonder what the Season Standings would look like if everyone just didn't cheat? If everyone just played for fun and the chips fell where they may. What's more, I wonder if we'll ever see that happen...? The answer is likely no.

We can only hope that one day Kabam can find an effective measure to put this to rest for the most part. I doubt 100% success in such an endeavor is possible though. You'll ALWAYS have someone who can't play straight and feels they're above the rules, or entitled to X tier of rewards... er' whatever it is that these players use to justify their actions. I really do feel a great swell of pity for those who do this. They're missing out on one of the best aspects of the game IMO. Earning a legitimate win.

In the end, yes, I agree... some will NEVER stop. They just can't help themselves. Which is damaging to the integrity of the Season standings, and it's disheartening to those that really give it their all. I will say this, it is EXTREMELY AMUSING to beat an Alliance that's modding though. It's like man... couldn't even cheat your way to the win?? Maybe take a step back and work on your skills instead of relying on a cheat code 😜.

GroundedWisdom

DTMelodicMetal said:

GroundedWisdom said:

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

I think an alternative to the ban hammer could be compensating players/alliances that are cheated out of rewards from losing to modders. Like @MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said, players stop investing in AW when they lose to opponents who cheat.

That's the problem. You can't automatically award a Win in a system as competitive as War Seasons. First off, you can't assume they would win automatically. Secondly, you create a system where people can just default their way to progress. As unfair as Modding is, I'm equally as uncomfortable with people being given Rewards as the result of others breaking the rules.

GroundedWisdom

Not to mention that doesn't really do much to stop people.

Worknprogress

GroundedWisdom said:

DTMelodicMetal said:

GroundedWisdom said:

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

I think an alternative to the ban hammer could be compensating players/alliances that are cheated out of rewards from losing to modders. Like @MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said, players stop investing in AW when they lose to opponents who cheat.

That's the problem. You can't automatically award a Win in a system as competitive as War Seasons. First off, you can't assume they would win automatically. Secondly, you create a system where people can just default their way to progress. As unfair as Modding is, I'm equally as uncomfortable with people being given Rewards as the result of others breaking the rules.

You absolutely can. It's pretty irrelevant whether they would have won or not. The other team cheated and should be disqualified from that war. That's how it works in basically every competition. It doesn't matter if the cheater would have won without cheating, they broke the rules so they're disqualified. Pretty simple

Worknprogress

They don't let athletes getting caught for PEDs keep a medal bc they might have won anyway. That's ridiculous.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

Worknprogress said:

You absolutely can. It's pretty irrelevant whether they would have won or not. The other team cheated and should be disqualified from that war. That's how it works in basically every competition. It doesn't matter if the cheater would have won without cheating, they broke the rules so they're disqualified. Pretty simple

Kabam has compensated other alliances for not participating in wars. Participating and following the rules is worth being compensated when cheated more than being compensated when you did not participate imo. Specifically, an alliance was awarded 3rd place rewards after receiving bonus points for not finding matches at the end of season 1.

GroundedWisdom

They were compensated because the system wouldn't allow them to play. That's not the same as creating a system where all people need to do to win is come up agaisnt someone breaking the rules.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

SiriusBreak said:

@DTMelodicMetal Tier 4 currently. What's weird is it was a bigger problem when we were in tiers 6 and 5. Since we've moved up to 4, it's been far less prevalent than prior. It's tragic that the top tier players are pulling this garbage. Are they so scared to play straight up that they feel the need to cheat?

Perhaps, and maybe this is a longshot here, but perhaps the problem originates from unrealistic expectations? Those that have played for a longtime (heck, played in general really) know that you can't win them all. Occasionally, even the best botch a fight or 2. Be it from player error or uncontrollable circumstances (glitches, bugs, lag, or connectivity issues), it doesn't really matter. Things happen.

I think there's this need for perfection up there and some are willing to do ANYTHING to make that a reality. Now, I'm curious, what's more prevalent in your experience at tier 1. Defense mods, or attack based mods? Or is it a heavy mixture of both? Whatever the case may be, it seems that it all stems from not wanting to accept anything less than perfection (or as close as one can get anyway). Which is just... tragic. It's a game.

Occasionally, you have to accept that defeat is a possibility. Removing it from the equation essentially kills the point of the game entirely in my eyes. Games are meant to be lost from time to time. How can you truly enjoy winning if you're not overcoming defeat? It's more sad to me than anything that people feel so powerless that they resort to cheating.

My crew is on a 8 win streak right now and it feels freaking AMAZING! (6 Off Season, 2 Season) No mods, no pilots, no corners cut. Just killer teamwork and doing our best. Sure, we lost a fair amount of ABs, just not as many as our opponents is all, lol. I wonder what the Season Standings would look like if everyone just didn't cheat? If everyone just played for fun and the chips fell where they may. What's more, I wonder if we'll ever see that happen...? The answer is likely no.

We can only hope that one day Kabam can find an effective measure to put this to rest for the most part. I doubt 100% success in such an endeavor is possible though. You'll ALWAYS have someone who can't play straight and feels they're above the rules, or entitled to X tier of rewards... er' whatever it is that these players use to justify their actions. I really do feel a great swell of pity for those who do this. They're missing out on one of the best aspects of the game IMO. Earning a legitimate win.

In the end, yes, I agree... some will NEVER stop. They just can't help themselves. Which is damaging to the integrity of the Season standings, and it's disheartening to those that really give it their all. I will say this, it is EXTREMELY AMUSING to beat an Alliance that's modding though. It's like man... couldn't even cheat your way to the win?? Maybe take a step back and work on your skills instead of relying on a cheat code 😜.

@SiriusBreak congrats on the win streak. To answer your questions:

- Some have said modding has increased because account sharing is now closely monitored.
- To my knowledge mods used are attack mods. Previous versions Kabam caught on to were attackers having increased power gain from basic attacks and defenders not gaining power when hit by special attacks. More recent mods that Kabam caught on to at the end of last season made attackers take .1% of the damage they should be taking from defenders.

For me, the exhilaration of competition means more than winning or losing. Not everyone feels this way. If I lose in a fair game, I’m motivated to improve what I could have done better. I don’t know the solution to end modding, if I had to bet on something I’d go all in on creating consequences severe enough that players become too scared to risk modding in AW Seasons.

GroundedWisdom

Essentially, that's just "You cheat, I get the spoils.". Have enough people cheating in a system like that, and the result is a good portion who never really earned them.
Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to a system that disqualifies cheating Allies from Season Rewards. That would probably be an effective way to discourage it.

Worknprogress

DTMelodicMetal said:

Worknprogress said:

You absolutely can. It's pretty irrelevant whether they would have won or not. The other team cheated and should be disqualified from that war. That's how it works in basically every competition. It doesn't matter if the cheater would have won without cheating, they broke the rules so they're disqualified. Pretty simple

Kabam has compensated other alliances for not participating in wars. Participating and following the rules is worth being compensated when cheated more than being compensated when you did not participate imo. Specifically, an alliance was awarded 3rd place rewards after receiving bonus points for not finding matches at the end of season 1.

Yeah I've never agreed with the losing alliance not being awarded the win when someone gets docked for cheating. I just don't understand how that makes sense in the slightest.

DTMelodicMetal

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

GroundedWisdom said:

Essentially, that's just "You cheat, I get the spoils.". Have enough people cheating in a system like that, and the result is a good portion who never really earned them.
Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to a system that disqualifies cheating Allies from Season Rewards. That would probably be an effective way to discourage it.

@GroundedWisdom great suggestion, one of the best I’ve heard

Worknprogress

GroundedWisdom said:

Essentially, that's just "You cheat, I get the spoils.". Have enough people cheating in a system like that, and the result is a good portion who never really earned them.
Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to a system that disqualifies cheating Allies from Season Rewards. That would probably be an effective way to discourage it.

That's basically how it works in every other competition out there. You cheat, it's basically a forfeit.

Rektor

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

Kabam, can you create a new loyalty boost that lets our attackers gain a bar of power in 4 hits while preventing the defender from gaining a bar of power until our 20th hit?

Since you won’t ban the modders, even with video evidence submitted to you, maybe just level the playing field for the rest of us and give us a boost that matches their mods. Kthx

chunkyb

Modding is at an all time high. Whatever method is being used against modders is not working.

Any mod use should be a perma ban.
Use of bots should be a perma ban.

"But chunky, that doesn't stop them from getting another account and doing it again"

That's true. So perma ban again next time they do it. Dock the alli as well. Piss off the whole alliance. Rain fire. Torch the earth. Let em get another account and do the same again. See who lasts longer. They'll tire of the outflow of cash pretty quickly imo.




Oh and devote 2-3 ppl to finding newly built mods and bots and finding a signature to more easily identify them. Really wouldn't take much. When you look at the widespread war frustrations amongst normally paying players, this is a large part of the equation.

Worknprogress

chunkyb said:

Any mod use should be a perma ban.
Use of bots should be a perma ban.

"But chunky, that doesn't stop them from getting another account and doing it again"

That's true. So perma ban again next time they do it. Dock the alli as well. Piss off the whole alliance. Rain fire. Torch the earth. Let em get another account and do the same again. See who lasts longer. They'll tire of the outflow of cash pretty quickly imo.




Oh and devote 2-3 ppl to finding newly built mods and bots and finding a signature to more easily identify them. Really wouldn't take much. When you look at the widespread war frustrations amongst normally paying players, this is a large part of the equation.

Or just throw AW out all together and come up with a game mode that isn't awful

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Worknprogress

TheSpicyKnight said:

Worknprogress said:

chunkyb said:

Any mod use should be a perma ban.
Use of bots should be a perma ban.

"But chunky, that doesn't stop them from getting another account and doing it again"

That's true. So perma ban again next time they do it. Dock the alli as well. Piss off the whole alliance. Rain fire. Torch the earth. Let em get another account and do the same again. See who lasts longer. They'll tire of the outflow of cash pretty quickly imo.




Oh and devote 2-3 ppl to finding newly built mods and bots and finding a signature to more easily identify them. Really wouldn't take much. When you look at the widespread war frustrations amongst normally paying players, this is a large part of the equation.

Or just throw AW out all together and come up with a game mode that isn't awful

What would you suggest?

Bases of course

Markjv81

GroundedWisdom said:

DTMelodicMetal said:

GroundedWisdom said:

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

I think an alternative to the ban hammer could be compensating players/alliances that are cheated out of rewards from losing to modders. Like @MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said, players stop investing in AW when they lose to opponents who cheat.

That's the problem. You can't automatically award a Win in a system as competitive as War Seasons. First off, you can't assume they would win automatically. Secondly, you create a system where people can just default their way to progress. As unfair as Modding is, I'm equally as uncomfortable with people being given Rewards as the result of others breaking the rules.

This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.

smy168

I'm pretty cut and dry, you cheat, you get banned. period...a second chance for someone who mods? why, if they do it once, they will do it again. Maybe my faith in humanity is shook but people steal for 2 reasons...need and opportunity...neither one is acceptable but punishment would still be the same.
I've faced modded groups in the past and it's not cool, fair or even forgivable. I am not FTP so if my money gets played with, I get heated.

GroundedWisdom

Markjv81 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DTMelodicMetal said:

GroundedWisdom said:

This feels like a trick question. Lol. To be honest, there's really no set amount that will stop it. Docking is a deterrent, but it can either dissuade them, or create a Yo-Yo situation. If the spoils of cheating are being removed from docking, at the very least it's harm reduction. Some would prefer a Ban Hammer, but I'm not sure that's reasonable.

I think an alternative to the ban hammer could be compensating players/alliances that are cheated out of rewards from losing to modders. Like @MaRvEl_MoNsTeR said, players stop investing in AW when they lose to opponents who cheat.

That's the problem. You can't automatically award a Win in a system as competitive as War Seasons. First off, you can't assume they would win automatically. Secondly, you create a system where people can just default their way to progress. As unfair as Modding is, I'm equally as uncomfortable with people being given Rewards as the result of others breaking the rules.

This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.

It's not dumb at all. You really can't assume that one side would have won. War gives Rewards based on progress earned. Which means people need to earn Rewards, and earn them fairly. I'm not okay with people defaulting their way up the ladder and gaining Rewards from someone else breaking the rules. Two wrongs don't make a right.