Why is ICEMAN not immune to coldsnap?

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Comments

  • Um. Is it possible you made that up sir? What exactly is your source of reference for Hellfire being any different kind of fire than regular fire at least in its effects? Maybe Marvel's hellfire I suppose?

    What else would we be talking about in this situation?
  • SlayerOfGodsSlayerOfGods Posts: 1,665 ★★★★
    edited December 2017
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Um. Is it possible you made that up sir? What exactly is your source of reference for Hellfire being any different kind of fire than regular fire at least in its effects? Maybe Marvel's hellfire I suppose?

    What else would we be talking about in this situation?

    There is a decent argument to be made here @DNA3000
  • 1King_Jerry1King_Jerry Posts: 66
    Why is Red Hulk, Ghost Rider, or Dorm not immune to incinerate
    Why does Hela, Angela, or Psylocke inflict bleed
    Why is Thanos not poison immune

    The answer is kabam gives no $#%^
  • Electro and shock make the least sense.
  • ImranImran Posts: 212
    Gogeta wrote: »
    one more thing why maestro is affected by poison or neurotoxin?everyone knows he's none other than hulk and hulk is immune to poison.

    Hulk shouldn't be immune to poison. There is some comics hulk affected by poison. Hawkeye killed him with anti-hulk arrow which is some kind of poison I think. Again, it's mcoc universe. Anything can happen. Think about magneto, magneto can't evade bullet shot!! Is it make sense?
  • RixobRixob Posts: 505 ★★
    Guys, it would just make too much sense for kabam. Come on now you know this.
  • Imran wrote: »
    Gogeta wrote: »
    one more thing why maestro is affected by poison or neurotoxin?everyone knows he's none other than hulk and hulk is immune to poison.

    Hulk shouldn't be immune to poison. There is some comics hulk affected by poison. Hawkeye killed him with anti-hulk arrow which is some kind of poison I think. Again, it's mcoc universe. Anything can happen. Think about magneto, magneto can't evade bullet shot!! Is it make sense?

    Because Kabam use Special bullets made from Silver , So they should be more powerful against spirits (Mystic)
    LOL
  • MattScottMattScott Posts: 587
    edited February 2018
    If they say iceman is immune to incinerate,
    Then to follow the same logic ghost rider and Mephisto SHOULD be immune to cold snap.

    Following same basic logic if robots are immune to poison/bleed they should suffer double shock damage. Or while being shocked, should suffer -100% ability accuracy.

    There’s a lot of stuff that makes. No sense and what would be great for the game would be a HUGE 18.0 Overhaul of older character immunities and abilities to balance them with things that didn’t exist when they were released. IMHO this would have been much better for the future of the game than 6* heroes. :/
  • shchong2shchong2 Posts: 2,421 ★★★★
    I totally agree that normal logics do not apply to MCoC universe for now, that many immunity effect is not as what we expected. If Kabam has to revamp many of those old champs, to make them more "logical" to layman in real world and to catch up with some newer effects/debuff, it'll be a massive update.

    Even if many of those are illogical to some extend, guess what I found the MOST ILLOGICAL things in MCoC Universe? Regular "emergency maintenance" before scheduled maintenance, server down few times a month, more and more bugs but take forever and not fixed, fixed bugs reappear, etc. This leads me to think that MCoC Universe is indeed illogical .... :(
  • shchong2 wrote: »
    I totally agree that normal logics do not apply to MCoC universe for now, that many immunity effect is not as what we expected. If Kabam has to revamp many of those old champs, to make them more "logical" to layman in real world and to catch up with some newer effects/debuff, it'll be a massive update.

    Even if many of those are illogical to some extend, guess what I found the MOST ILLOGICAL things in MCoC Universe? Regular "emergency maintenance" before scheduled maintenance, server down few times a month, more and more bugs but take forever and not fixed, fixed bugs reappear, etc. This leads me to think that MCoC Universe is indeed illogical .... :(

    That MASSIVE update would revitalize the community. Also It could renew the prestige race, as it has done before.
  • SolswerdSolswerd Posts: 1,433 ★★★
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.
  • Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.
  • SolswerdSolswerd Posts: 1,433 ★★★
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.

    That is a different discussion all together, I am hoping with the recent updates to Cage and Red Hulk that they are reexamining more of the old guard. But I do agree with you in regards to newer champs being created to entice $$$$ (they are a business) though there have been some duds released as well.

    I just don't think Iceman and Ghost Rider (2 champs that currently have plenty of uses) are a good place to start that argument.
  • Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.

    That is a different discussion all together, I am hoping with the recent updates to Cage and Red Hulk that they are reexamining more of the old guard. But I do agree with you in regards to newer champs being created to entice $$$$ (they are a business) though there have been some duds released as well.

    I just don't think Iceman and Ghost Rider (2 champs that currently have plenty of uses) are a good place to start that argument.

    Colossus should be poison immune? Gamora assassinate should have a 25% rate to happen or so, and not just once? How about we start there. :)
  • SolswerdSolswerd Posts: 1,433 ★★★
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.

    That is a different discussion all together, I am hoping with the recent updates to Cage and Red Hulk that they are reexamining more of the old guard. But I do agree with you in regards to newer champs being created to entice $$$$ (they are a business) though there have been some duds released as well.

    I just don't think Iceman and Ghost Rider (2 champs that currently have plenty of uses) are a good place to start that argument.

    Colossus should be poison immune? Gamora assassinate should have a 25% rate to happen or so, and not just once? How about we start there. :)

    Not arguing with you...was responding in a thread about Iceman and someone added GR to the conversation. I could think of 30 champs that need to be looked at. Not saying you are wrong.

    But, and this is what my post was about, GR and Iceman do not need buffs....especially when the likely cost would be something else being taken away from those two.
  • Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.

    That is a different discussion all together, I am hoping with the recent updates to Cage and Red Hulk that they are reexamining more of the old guard. But I do agree with you in regards to newer champs being created to entice $$$$ (they are a business) though there have been some duds released as well.

    I just don't think Iceman and Ghost Rider (2 champs that currently have plenty of uses) are a good place to start that argument.

    Colossus should be poison immune? Gamora assassinate should have a 25% rate to happen or so, and not just once? How about we start there. :)

    Not arguing with you...was responding in a thread about Iceman and someone added GR to the conversation. I could think of 30 champs that need to be looked at. Not saying you are wrong.

    But, and this is what my post was about, GR and Iceman do not need buffs....especially when the likely cost would be something else being taken away from those two.

    I’m not saying they need it either. It would just make sense if they had these abilities.
  • SolswerdSolswerd Posts: 1,433 ★★★
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    MattScott wrote: »
    Solswerd wrote: »
    As I have mentioned in other threads, and as mentiined in this thread....balance.
    If they ever gave in and made Iceman immune to Coldsnap or GR immune to Incinerate, they would nerf some other aspect of the champ. (regardless of the reason....you are asking for a buff on the already powerful Iceman and not too shabby GR)
    It would not be worth it.


    The game needs to be balanced. The problem for players, and best case scenario for kabam is it is unbalanced towards the newer champs. To ramp up revenue. It is purposefully left in an unbalanced state to encourage you to get that next champ who may fix the imbalance.

    That is a different discussion all together, I am hoping with the recent updates to Cage and Red Hulk that they are reexamining more of the old guard. But I do agree with you in regards to newer champs being created to entice $$$$ (they are a business) though there have been some duds released as well.

    I just don't think Iceman and Ghost Rider (2 champs that currently have plenty of uses) are a good place to start that argument.

    Colossus should be poison immune? Gamora assassinate should have a 25% rate to happen or so, and not just once? How about we start there. :)

    Not arguing with you...was responding in a thread about Iceman and someone added GR to the conversation. I could think of 30 champs that need to be looked at. Not saying you are wrong.

    But, and this is what my post was about, GR and Iceman do not need buffs....especially when the likely cost would be something else being taken away from those two.

    I’m not saying they need it either. It would just make sense if they had these abilities.

    Maybe, but it would make sense for Hulk's fist to go through Rocket Raccoon and many other champs with one punch.

    In a game that can have Mephisto getting into a fist fight with Howard the Duck...we are forced to accept some things won't make sense....
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    For the record, this post was never about "need". Iceman doesn't "need" anything additional. It just didn't make sense that the very thing he uses to make coldsnap himself, he himself would be subject to. Semantics.

    That said, another issue with iceman was the fact that SP2 froze DD in place then DD evaded the second part. Lots of arguments on both sides on that one but Kabam fixed it so there IS something to these little chats.
  • NikhilNikhil Posts: 77
    Iceman should be immune to coldsnap and frostbite. It's highly illogical that he isn't in this game. Kabam please make him immune to the coldsnap and frostbite. It's just so obvious. Come on.
  • FreeToPlay_21FreeToPlay_21 Posts: 960 ★★★
    edited September 8
    Solid argument there @DNA3000 but if we go by this logic, that coldsnap is nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy from an object (in this case, a champion). Then how does having a fur coat help Sabertooth be immune to this effect? How are Emma Frost, Human Torch, Corvus Glaive, Annhilus and Warlock immune to their kinetic energy being sapped?

    By this logic, the only champion where this coldsnap immunity will make sense is Gambit, since he can control the kinetic energy around him. I couldn't care less about Kabam logic but whatever lol
  • This is an old thread already, nothing more to comment here.
    Plenty others had been made after this one
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 474 ★★

    Solid argument there @DNA3000 but if we go by this logic, that coldsnap is nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy from an object (in this case, a champion). Then how does having a fur coat help Sabertooth be immune to this effect? How are Emma Frost, Human Torch, Corvus Glaive, Annhilus and Warlock immune to their kinetic energy being sapped?

    By this logic, the only champion where this coldsnap immunity will make sense is Gambit, since he can control the kinetic energy around him. I couldn't care less about Kabam logic but whatever lol

    Finally, someone who gets it. Anything that moves should be affected by cold snap unless they have some other power to deal with it, like gambit. Don’t how it would work with shrug off champs but hey, it’s a game

    I’m just glad we do have champs that are cold snap immune
  • DęłtåDęłtå Posts: 56
    Not this again ice has different temps so ice can get colder hence cold snap go back to school
  • Solid argument there @DNA3000 but if we go by this logic, that coldsnap is nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy from an object (in this case, a champion). Then how does having a fur coat help Sabertooth be immune to this effect? How are Emma Frost, Human Torch, Corvus Glaive, Annhilus and Warlock immune to their kinetic energy being sapped?

    By this logic, the only champion where this coldsnap immunity will make sense is Gambit, since he can control the kinetic energy around him. I couldn't care less about Kabam logic but whatever lol

    It is important to point out that MCOC is not a physics simulation: it is a game that greatly oversimplifies its effects, and because of that oversimplification you can't say what things are "supposed to be" with precision. For example, there's only one "incinerate" effect that encompasses a wide range of actual physics that all behave differently. Similarly "bleed" doesn't encompass all forms of attacks that can cause the target to bleed (that's basically all of them) but rather emphasizes when certain attacks especially deliver their damage with bleed.

    The point isn't that coldsnap is "nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy." That's what cold actually is. The point is that the "magic" of Iceman's powers isn't that he's somehow magically cold, it is that the way he makes other things cold is also completely magical: it defies the laws of physics. Because of that, we have to assume there's a very special comic-book mechanism that Iceman uses to make things very cold very fast. And because we don't know what that mechanism is, we can't use "common sense physics" to predict what will and will not be resistant to it. Sabretooth, for example, has a healing factor. Healing factors, at least to the degree exhibited by Marvel super powered beings, are also not well-explained, and thus Sabretooth's healing factor could, according to comic book logic (or at least comic book video game logic) resist the effects of coldsnap.

    In comic books and video games based on comic books, we generally cannot determine what should and should not happen with logic and physics alone. Instead, we can only ask the more loose question of whether there's enough of a gap in the way things work to allow the fiction to fit within that gap. If Coldsnap was just Iceman being really really cold, and everyone standing near him gets damaged as a result, that doesn't make sense: that's not how cold works. So we know that can't be the complete story. Because we don't have the complete story, there's wiggle room for the game to hand out immunity based on things other than what we'd expect from just the physics of cold.
  • FreeToPlay_21FreeToPlay_21 Posts: 960 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Solid argument there @DNA3000 but if we go by this logic, that coldsnap is nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy from an object (in this case, a champion). Then how does having a fur coat help Sabertooth be immune to this effect? How are Emma Frost, Human Torch, Corvus Glaive, Annhilus and Warlock immune to their kinetic energy being sapped?

    By this logic, the only champion where this coldsnap immunity will make sense is Gambit, since he can control the kinetic energy around him. I couldn't care less about Kabam logic but whatever lol

    It is important to point out that MCOC is not a physics simulation: it is a game that greatly oversimplifies its effects, and because of that oversimplification you can't say what things are "supposed to be" with precision. For example, there's only one "incinerate" effect that encompasses a wide range of actual physics that all behave differently. Similarly "bleed" doesn't encompass all forms of attacks that can cause the target to bleed (that's basically all of them) but rather emphasizes when certain attacks especially deliver their damage with bleed.

    The point isn't that coldsnap is "nothing but subtraction of kinetic energy." That's what cold actually is. The point is that the "magic" of Iceman's powers isn't that he's somehow magically cold, it is that the way he makes other things cold is also completely magical: it defies the laws of physics. Because of that, we have to assume there's a very special comic-book mechanism that Iceman uses to make things very cold very fast. And because we don't know what that mechanism is, we can't use "common sense physics" to predict what will and will not be resistant to it. Sabretooth, for example, has a healing factor. Healing factors, at least to the degree exhibited by Marvel super powered beings, are also not well-explained, and thus Sabretooth's healing factor could, according to comic book logic (or at least comic book video game logic) resist the effects of coldsnap.

    In comic books and video games based on comic books, we generally cannot determine what should and should not happen with logic and physics alone. Instead, we can only ask the more loose question of whether there's enough of a gap in the way things work to allow the fiction to fit within that gap. If Coldsnap was just Iceman being really really cold, and everyone standing near him gets damaged as a result, that doesn't make sense: that's not how cold works. So we know that can't be the complete story. Because we don't have the complete story, there's wiggle room for the game to hand out immunity based on things other than what we'd expect from just the physics of cold.
    Makes sense. At the end of the day it's a game based on talking racoons and green range monsters. We can't expect it to make sense all the time.
  • Midnite93Midnite93 Posts: 1,615 ★★★★
    Hmmm isn't this discussion at least 2 years old?
  • We've already addressed this topic many times before, and you can find a response I posted previously HERE. To help keep the Forum tidy, I'll go ahead and close this discussion.
This discussion has been closed.