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They Killed YellowJacket

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Comments

  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,179 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your argument, I'm trying to get you to admit you made a mistake (again and also dragged the initial conversation on for so long before giving your Reason which ended up being false
    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    It's not that we disagree with an opinion of yours . You can bloody we'll have an opinion. You're just plain factually wrong when you say he wasn't affected by AAR before or that making rage as debuffs somehow magically makes him easier to fight
    Thank you, I just typed this but it got put in approval limbo.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,781 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    HI_guys said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    HI_guys said:

    KDSuperFlash10 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    KDSuperFlash10 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
    What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
    It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
    Void
    Void's only one champion though.
    True. KingPins main and dare say "reliable utility " is debuff shrugging. Void is the one champ you never want debuffs against. Not to mention class advantage and touted as "strength" in his spotlight us debuff shrugging. Just seems wierd.
    It is weird. But nothing we can do about it now I guess.
    I mean yeah. But we're just discussing the buff that's it. I don't really care if kingpin was turned I to groot since I'll never rank him and he's going to be just harder to fight now with the extra attack
    Neither will I ever rank him up now. Other than Damage and debuff shrug-off, he doesn't have any other utility and I already got both of those covered.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,179 ★★★★★
    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your argument, I'm trying to get you to admit you made a mistake (again and also dragged the initial conversation on for so long before giving your Reason which ended up being false
    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    It's not that we disagree with an opinion of yours . You can bloody we'll have an opinion. You're just plain factually wrong when you say he wasn't affected by AAR before or that making rage as debuffs somehow magically makes him easier to fight
    Thank you, I just typed this but it got put in approval limbo.
    Ha the Draft saved it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Okay. Sure. Whatever you say.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,179 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    It's not that we disagree with an opinion of yours . You can bloody we'll have an opinion. You're just plain factually wrong when you say he wasn't affected by AAR before or that making rage as debuffs somehow magically makes him easier to fight
    Mkay. Sure. You want to know? Ask them yourself. I'm tired of being badgered about the same damn question. Get over it. Move on.
    I would love to understand why it is so.i like discussing champ mechanisms. And you havnt said anything other than "it is so because I said so".
    Same I love long conversations, that's why I'm on a Forums, that's what this is right now.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    LibertyPrimeV1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Batty_Numppo said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    HI_guys said:

    Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
    No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
    I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
    Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
    Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
    One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
    Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
    Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
    That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
    Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
    You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
    This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
    How can you expect people to agree with you when you spout wrong information? He was affected by AAR before rework too. Only reason you won't see it when you are using him as an attacker is you won't get many debuffs and don't take him against mutants where the shrug off ability is shut down. If you have used OR or Apoc against him, you can clearly see that he will stop shrugging off debuffs, and stop gaining rage
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Don't care. Moving on.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,179 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Okay. Sure. Whatever you say.

    Dude you don't gotta get Defensive, no one is attacking you or anything, we're saying you kept dragging out your point constantly arguing against anyone with a counter point then your point that dragged on for so long ended up being misinformed.

    What are you even saying "Okay. Sure. Whatever you say." to?
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,179 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Don't care. Moving on.

    You do care. That's why you typed this and spent all this time here. And the rest of the people here care too. Stop being high and mighty
    Yeah I would've just said "Ok I made a mistake, anyways back to the Void Matchup which was the original point..."
This discussion has been closed.