Gifting Badge Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,215
    Dshu said:

    I go to a car dealership to buy a Corvette. I buy the car with a v8 engine. A few weeks later the dealership comes buy takes my engine and replaced it with a 4 cylinder engine. They can apparently do this because a minority of people were driving too fast and the car is still a Corvette correct. Just trying to understand your logic

    This is nothing like the current situation, this is different to an absurdly huge level. In all my experience with buying cars, the actual type and configuration of the engine is specified as part of the purchase, not something you're being given for free when purchasing a car without an engine. And both the car and the engine within it are material goods which explicitly come with property rights: those things can't be taken away from the buyer once ownership is transferred. Neither of these things is true for MCOC.

    And finally, even in the case of cars, if there was a problem that was actually harming people, like say a defect in the safety systems of the car, you could still face a mandatory recall that removed a featured deemed to be unsafe and requiring an emergency change, even if you paid for it, until a fix could be engineered. Like, say, a self-driving automation feature. Even if someone claimed that they only bought the car for that specific feature, I'm pretty sure they would not be entitled to a full refund of the car if that feature was temporarily disabled due to a safety problem.
  • imaginejimimaginejim Posts: 239
    "As of today, we are indefinitely disabling the ability for Summoners to send gifts until further notice."

    Indefinitely definition: for an unlimited or unspecified period of time.

    as opposed to:

    Definitely definition: in a definite manner; clearly.
    Definitively definition: decisively and with authority; conclusively.

    ----------------------------

    All I am saying is that this gifting ban isn't permanent or definitive. They are working through ways to bring this back (according to their posts) and are disabling, not removing. Disabling..... not removing.

    The compensation in the game was not for the permanent removal of the gifting badge, but rather the temporary disabling. I don't see why that point is so lost in all this.

    I do, however, think they should have provided a bit of notice, especially at the end of the AQ and AQ seasons. :/
  • MastiffmanMastiffman Posts: 47
    Main problem is Kabaam doesn’t care, when have they ever truly went after cheaters? Had people exploit the gifting event a couple years ago and what was done nothing. People who were caught piloting anyone permately banned for breaking tos no, how many alliances were caught cheating, in past seasons of war punished don’t think so. Kabaam cares about money at the end of the day, they want you to buy revives, potions etc from units not by someone gifting you anything. They can send out a offer and give more than they should they can swipe it back no questions asked. They can do whatever they want to whomever they want anytime they want. Nothing will change so just accept it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,215
    Kpatrix said:

    Honestly, this whole problem was brought about by Kabam themselves by overpricing in game resources like revives, pots, and refills while anping up difficulty and introducing things like map 7 with ridiculous cost and war seasons where it was obvious from season one that the worst was being brought out in people to get the top rewards. They created a scenario where fraud would thrive, and as a stop gap fix to it they took away a permanent purchased item.

    If only nothing was worth anything, no one would cheat. It is obviously Kabam's fault for making a game where anything is worth anything.

    This is completely ludicrous.
  • StarhawkStarhawk Posts: 156
    edited March 25
    This reminds me of a similar situation that led to a successfull class action lawsuit against Sony years ago.
    The original PS3 came with a feature most people didn't use (OtherOS) which was eventually taken away in a firmware update to combat piracy. Eventually this led to a class action lawsuit against Sony for taking away a feature that was advertised at the time of purchase for a lot of people whether they used it or not. I see a lot of parallels here. 300 Units is a joke of a compensation for this but no matter the amount given someone will feel it isn't enough.
  • DshuDshu Posts: 828
    Drooped2 said:

    Dshu said:

    I go to a car dealership to buy a Corvette. I buy the car with a v8 engine. A few weeks later the dealership comes buy takes my engine and replaced it with a 4 cylinder engine. They can apparently do this because a minority of people were driving too fast and the car is still a Corvette correct. Just trying to understand your logic

    You complain to them and demand a second Corvette brought to you while keeping the original.


    Just trying to understand logic too
    I'm sorry where in any of my posts have I asked for any compensation whatsoever. If you are just trying to troll try harder
  • ezgoingezgoing Posts: 181
    If it was so simple, kabam miike would have clarified this already. Most likely this “suspension” would have been as indefinite as when bases would have been ready.

    Give us back the money (and I am willing to return all 850units as well), and we can all pay $30 again when kabam eventually fixes the problem.

    This will be kabam putting money when the mouth is.

    "As of today, we are indefinitely disabling the ability for Summoners to send gifts until further notice."

    Indefinitely definition: for an unlimited or unspecified period of time.

    as opposed to:

    Definitely definition: in a definite manner; clearly.
    Definitively definition: decisively and with authority; conclusively.

    ----------------------------

    All I am saying is that this gifting ban isn't permanent or definitive. They are working through ways to bring this back (according to their posts) and are disabling, not removing. Disabling..... not removing.

    The compensation in the game was not for the permanent removal of the gifting badge, but rather the temporary disabling. I don't see why that point is so lost in all this.

    I do, however, think they should have provided a bit of notice, especially at the end of the AQ and AQ seasons. :/

  • CFreeCFree Posts: 383
    DNA3000 said:

    Dshu said:

    I go to a car dealership to buy a Corvette. I buy the car with a v8 engine. A few weeks later the dealership comes buy takes my engine and replaced it with a 4 cylinder engine. They can apparently do this because a minority of people were driving too fast and the car is still a Corvette correct. Just trying to understand your logic

    This is nothing like the current situation, this is different to an absurdly huge level. In all my experience with buying cars, the actual type and configuration of the engine is specified as part of the purchase, not something you're being given for free when purchasing a car without an engine. And both the car and the engine within it are material goods which explicitly come with property rights: those things can't be taken away from the buyer once ownership is transferred. Neither of these things is true for MCOC.

    And finally, even in the case of cars, if there was a problem that was actually harming people, like say a defect in the safety systems of the car, you could still face a mandatory recall that removed a featured deemed to be unsafe and requiring an emergency change, even if you paid for it, until a fix could be engineered. Like, say, a self-driving automation feature. Even if someone claimed that they only bought the car for that specific feature, I'm pretty sure they would not be entitled to a full refund of the car if that feature was temporarily disabled due to a safety problem.
    He doesn’t want logic, he wants everyone to see the clever rightness of his response.
  • OdelasOdelas Posts: 1
    El costo del medallon es por mas de 100 dlls. Y compre 2 paquetes de arca de odin. 

    300 runas no es una compensación. 

    Espero mas runas y esquirlas de 6* y 5* 

    Esto es un fraude y sino toman medidas, no volveré a invertir en un juego que cambia las reglas a conveniencia, nerfea jugadores, te bajan el nivel, se laggea, etc. 

    Como pueden intentar compensar algo que era permanente, yo no envié regalos de resurrectores a nadie. 

    No hago cosas ilegales y kabam si lo hace todo el tiempo. 

    Me quejaré en google apps y apple de esta plataforma. 

    Premios de gesta un asco, jugadores de 5* inservibles, misiones imposibles, nerfeo de jugadores top cada mes, y ademas fraudes? 

    Por qué? Hagan atractivo lo que venden si quieren dinero, sancionen a tramposos. Pero no agregadan a sus consumidores. 

    Esto es un agravio que no se xompensa con 300 runas... dame 3000 mil y cristales y dusculpas por creer en las mentiras de este juego. Solo regale cristales premium y que creen a mis amigos les salio basura de 2* por 300 runas.

    Quiero el reembolso de mi dinero.

    2 arcas de odin 200 dlls.

    Espero y exijo una respuesta y compensacion 

    ODELAS es mi nick name y mi correo es [email protected]
  • zarcorzarcor Posts: 25
    Don´t know why I feel that the GB will return in December (gifting event), i mean they won´t want to lose all that money $$ saying that the problem is "fixed"

    Am I wrong? @Kabam Miike
  • I guess I took the gifting badge for 29.99$ long time back
    now giving back 300 units and saying that there wont be gifting badge any more is a loot for my 30$
    you either give me back the 30$ or bring back the gifting
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,043
    edited March 25
    boss6390 said:

    They do realize that this could easily result in a lawsuit as it is technically illegal? I paid real money. Kabam took the money and I do not have what I paid for. Illegal.

    Lol they didn't take your units, and THOSE are what you paid for. You did not pay anything for the gift. That's why we use the word gift.
  • NCB_ptNCB_pt Posts: 97

    Badrose said:

    May someone explain what fraud are we talking about? It's just for people sending stuff to their second account???


    No, we mean real world Fraud that includes stolen information and fraudulent purchases.

    Let me read again..... "The real world Fraud"..... Than i remembered the people that bought the PERMANENT gift badge and i finally understood what you mean 😅
  • Spent $45NZD barely to buy gifting badge and got only 300units as compensation?? Is this joke or what? I shud get my money back or 850units.Also that's totally unfair for those who are not involved in any kind of fraud or abuse etc..
  • I spent $29.99 in US dollars to get that gifting badge, which also gave me 850 units. I don't see how 300 units is any compensation for the $29.99 I spent at all. Thanks for the thought but at least give me the 850 units that accompany the money I spent for the gifting badge.
  • ChiggypigChiggypig Posts: 1
    I want a refund for my gifting badge!!! 300 units is an insult!
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 307
    The only problem I really have with this change is the lack of warning. We had a similar problem with the 'no 4*s in act 6' controversy. If they'd told us a week or two ago that they were gonna stop the gifting badge, I would be perfectly fine with this.
    Kabam. Please try to give us more warning about this sort of stuff. I can tell you from out-of-game experience (namely that I had an assignment where part of it was reliant on us going on an excursion that was planned for mere days before that part of the assignment was due) that this really sucks. Just a couple of weeks notice would be nice (or probably at least a month or so in the case of the 'no 4*s in 6.1')
  • Hi, Guys ! I paid real money for my gifting badge and if you taking it away I expect to be compensated with money not with units! You breaking the agreement by yours terms and conditions!
  • zarcorzarcor Posts: 25
    I remember Kabam ban a famous youtuber because of a credit card fraud but only for a a few days HAHAHAHA, he admitted this yet Kabam let him go

    Hey @Vekxs ! How are you?
  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Posts: 742
    Keep the gifting badge but restrict it to in-game accomplishments like level, prestige, progress titles. Something like level 60, 7k+ prestige, uncollected requirements to unlock the gifting badge. Kabam has been pretty specific that the behavior they are trying to combat is credit card fraud units, which is a problem in many mobile games and nothing new. It’s not easy to reach that progression on a mass level and Kabam can ban accounts found of fraud accordingly, faster than they prop up. It hinders new players at first but will allow people to still enjoy the legit uses of the badge.
  • Speedro420Speedro420 Posts: 77
    Its issue like this and the four star ban that make not not spend a dime on this game. It’s fun but not worth real money to gamble for a champion I’ll get maybe 1% of the time.
  • Sank_10Sank_10 Posts: 8
    Kabam, you win the battle but will lose the war. You will see how many players will leave this game. Hopefully your greediness paid off and the only players left in your mcoc world are ftp players.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,215
    Starhawk said:

    This reminds me of a similar situation that led to a successfull class action lawsuit against Sony years ago.
    The original PS3 came with a feature most people didn't use (OtherOS) which was eventually taken away in a firmware update to combat piracy. Eventually this led to a class action lawsuit against Sony for taking away a feature that was advertised at the time of purchase for a lot of people whether they used it or not. I see a lot of parallels here. 300 Units is a joke of a compensation for this but no matter the amount given someone will feel it isn't enough.

    I went back and reread the appellate court ruling on this issue just to refresh my memory. This class action lawsuit was initially dismissed in court, but the Ninth Circuit overturned some of the elements of that dismissal which allowed that case to proceed. It is important to note which rulings were affirmed and which were overturned. The court ruled that the district court correctly dismissed all claims having to do with warranty, implied fitness of purpose, intent to defraud, and computer fraud. They reversed on a few claims having to do with false advertising and related claims. The court ruled that because Sony explicitly advertised the PS3 as being able to run other operating systems, and because people relied on that claim and paid more than they needed to in order to specifically buy the versions of the PS3 that had this functionality, they could state both a claim of being misled and proper damages due to that issue.

    It is also worth noting that both parties decided to settle this case out of court rather than continue the process, and members of the class receive settlements consistent with the costs of buying the "fat" PS3. There was no final ruling in this case.

    It is extremely unlikely in my opinion that you could make any of the claims which survived dismissal under the same legal grounds that the Sony case did.
  • KlahadorKlahador Posts: 11
    I would never pay money for units.
    I paid for the gifting badge and that's what I should have or my money back
  • Jgh80Jgh80 Posts: 2
    Well this is a typical kabam joke!someone finds a loop hole they can exploit so the rest of us get punished for using it legitimately, feels like 30 quid nicked by kabam in return for something that has absolutely no use to me, thanks kabam keep up the good work on keeping a customer base happy 👍🤔
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 1,093
    Dshu said:

    I go to a car dealership to buy a Corvette. I buy the car with a v8 engine. A few weeks later the dealership comes buy takes my engine and replaced it with a 4 cylinder engine. ....

    Remember back in the Original days of Electric Cars (long before Prius, Tesla, etc) ? Although they were technically leased, people paid a lot of real money to get them (the cost of leasing a car basically is akin to buying it over the long term). Then (insert “big oil industrial complex” conspiracy here...) the manufacturers all came a’knocking and repossessed every single one of them. They were too environmentally friendly, and (once again, Big Oil...) couldn't have such a thing disrupting their industry. People even tried to hide their cars (people even offered to pay any calculated balance of value to the manufacturers in hopes they could keep them) etc, all to no avail, and were getting sued by manufacturers to turn in their cars. Good documentary, “Who Killed the Electric Vehicle”, or something like that.

    Now, all this doesn’t entirely relate to this situation, except that hard earned cash was spent for something that they did not get to fully enjoy the use of as originally promised, and there was nothing the customer could do about it.

    As well as it being an interesting story, and a welcome relief from drone of replies up here.
  • NitoNito Posts: 45
    Seriously, I would like my $30 back that I actually paid for the gifting badge, BUT I know that won’t happen and I accept that. But 300 units? That’s like $10 worth of units!? WTF Kabam? That badge should be worth AT LEAST 850 units, which is what $30 gets you in the unit store typically. Out of touch with your customers again Kabam
  • liquidkarmaliquidkarma Posts: 79
    edited March 25
    @DNA3000 , this is why I for one am currently writing a ticket with the Better Business Bureau.
    They may be within their legal confines to remove from us gifting privileges due to the widespread plague in America and the world of "Legalese" and Rich People Thinking,
    but we live in a democracy g-dam-mit,
    and have a right to express when we feel wronged.
    i do not expect my money back but I do not think actions such as these should just be accepted as The Way of the World. Capitalism and the Legal System are the Ways of the World, but that doesn't mean they are without flaws.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,215
    boss6390 said:

    They do realize that this could easily result in a lawsuit as it is technically illegal? I paid real money. Kabam took the money and I do not have what I paid for. Illegal.
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    They don't realize that, because this is not technically illegal. This isn't illegal in any sense. This is extremely obvious to anyone that knows the law involved, but for those that don't I recommend hiring an attorney to explain it to you at three hundred dollars an hour.

    They took your money and gave you units. That's what you paid for. They temporarily removed a gifting badge from everyone to address an exploit. This item legally has no value. If you claim it has value you are violating the TOS and EULA of the game, which stipulate that you agree no item in the game has monetary value. If you violate the terms of service of the game, you no longer have the legal right to play the game. You would then be guilty of stealing service from an online service provider.

    "But I paid for the badge, not the units? There was no other way to get the badge, so I paid for the badge!" No, you didn't, because Kabam didn't offer the badge for sale. You have no legal way to demand Kabam sell it, and you have no legal way to force Kabam to state that the badge was for sale and the units were free in that purchase.

    But don't take my word for it. I encourage everyone who thinks otherwise to find and hire legal counsel. Push as hard as you can, spend as much money as you have, try real hard to at least make it past dismissal with prejudice. If you can at least make it past summary judgment, I can then point to your lawsuit as an example of how these suits fail in actual court. The problem is most don't make it far enough to be good examples of how they fail. I will probably be playing online games for decades to come, and it would be nice to have an example with some finality to it that isn't written in Chinese.
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