@Kabam Miike it is pretty obvious that it is CreditCard Fraud going on, but, it seems like a odd way to "fix" the problem.
Person uses stolen CC to buy stuff. This is logged information, and can be traced to the account that bought it correct?
That person then sells stuff to someone else. Again, this transaction is logged, is it not?
So, to fix it, you ban the original person's account forever, and then remove the item(s) that they sent to the other person, and tell the buyer of the gifts that if they attempt to do it again, they are banned for life.
Problem solved.
When you complete a purchase in Game, it's not directly with us. It's with your App Store, and the payment information is processed by them.
The actions we can take are limited by the information that we have access too.
Whatever happened to being transparent with the community, post 12.0?
I'm trying to be as transparent as I can be right now. This is probably more honest than I should be in regards to this situation. While I understand that there is stuff some might be frustrated about, I don't think you can claim that we're not being transparent right now.
@Kabam Miike Why not make the compensation package 850 units in the first place then?
And please don’t use the “the gifting badge had no value” angle...that was the only way to get that badge outside of waiting for the seasonal temp handout
**edit: I’m surprised that took so long to approve. Apologies on the double-post**
@GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?
Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.
I know you previously said you were annoyed by their decision, but c’mon...the-unit-deal-was-the-only-way-to-get-the-baaaaaadge. That within itself gives the badge value, otherwise I’m sure most of the people here wouldn’t have bought the deal.
I wouldn't say I was annoyed. I'm disappointed because I used to send and give Revs between Ally mates now and then. However, I know that the more important issue is people being stolen from. Fraud is no joke. My larger concern is for those who were the victims of this.
To the last bit I will agree for sure. Hopefully that gets cleared up for those affected by the frauds.
Can we have a candid discussion? We all know what prompted this. It’s all over Reddit and other places. Now while you can’t directly reply to that aspect of it, can you address a few key and worrisome points?
1) Why now? Why not after AQ/AW ended? Is a war on right now? I’m not sure my alliance is sitting this season out. But I digress, your action to remove it before AQ ends can directly impact a large amount of people. People who gift potions to players to finish lanes and or kill bosses. Can we get an answer to that? To me it was underhanded. By maybe there is more behind the timing.
2) Some of us used the GB to gift our alts different items. Some people have bought this badge across multiple toons to assist with potions for LoL runs. I have 2 accounts that I could have made use of for gifts to help progress my game. They don’t have the badge but I was thinking about it as they each now have quite a substantial amount of units built up from events and quests. This stops that. When you reenable this will it impact lower level alts?
3) The purchase of the GB should be valued at the unit pack it came with. Many of us simply bought this pack for one reason only. But you guys valued it at less than 50%. If you can sit there and honestly say that people bought the unit pack for the units and not the badge then I can see the justification of this low unit replacement. But if you think even the slightest that maybe just maybe more than not people bought it for the ability to gift then we need the full value. And saying the GB had no value and was an add-on is a cop-out. If it has no value it would have been purchasable with units at will. But you all made a metric ton of mo wh off this purchase simply because of that badge.
3 small points. I believe you are being as transparent as you can be and know you have a fine line to walk, but maybe you can answer those questions.
@GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?
Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.
Now I have to add "f2p-ish" to my list of tiny wedges of players.
When you create content that has no other way of being utilised other then to pay a monetary fee then buy doing so that item is then (wether you have meant it to be or not) the price of that monetary fee. The only way to get the badge was to pay $30. The badge is worth $30. The units can be acquired in game for free, the badge can not. By putting the badge in a $30 unit bundle you are saying by default the badge is worth $30, everyone who paid it has a right to be upset as they paid for a function that they were told was permenant that is now no longer permenant. These people are paying customers and are not breaching TOS, they are entitled to feel cheated.
@GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?
Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.
Now I have to add "f2p-ish" to my list of tiny wedges of players.
Yeah, I’d imagine using occasional spender would’ve been a better option.
Ok I been hearing that people are demanding refunds for units and cash that they have already gifted before this had happened. Far as I can tell this only effects what happens from here on out. This means that if kabaam reamburses people there money/units ect. These people demanding reembursment are eccentially doubling there money/units because they already reaped the benefits of past gifting. In my mind these people are conartists and are probably part of the original problem in first place... PS I do not care about my spelling or Grammer this is a thought post not a college paper.....
i agree most don't read the TOS. i usually get a paragraph in before my eyes gloss over due to extreme convolution. TOS and the Legalese are like an elite club. in order to understand it you need a specialized or advanced education that not everyone has the time or circumstances to prioritize or strive for. it is unrealistic to expect more people to read it, and it is an appeal to the better angels of our nature to want to assume that we are not going to get screwed over for not reading it. i am tempted toward nihilism all the time, but i still don't want to assume i will be screwed over for not reading the TOS. in my eyes, claims like this just normalize bad behavior. we shouldn't have to assume we'll get screwed over all the time. society makes cynics of us all, but it should't be that way. it's a sick sad world i know, but i don't want to be reminded while i'm vacationing in my little mobile game.
Ok I been hearing that people are demanding refunds for units and cash that they have already gifted before this had happened. Far as I can tell this only effects what happens from here on out. This means that if kabaam reamburses people there money/units ect. These people demanding reembursment are eccentially doubling there money/units because they already reaped the benefits of past gifting. In my mind these people are conartists and are probably part of the original problem in first place... PS I do not care about my spelling or Grammer this is a thought post not a college paper.....
Is it really that hard for people to understand people spent 30 dollars to have a gifting badge. Yes it was 30 dollars. Only way to get it was to pay 30 dollars. Cant say it was free because it was not. It was suppose to be for permanent gifting. So as long as u have your account. That is no longer true. they took it away so they should compensate people what they spent when they were told they would always have it
When you create content that has no other way of being utilised other then to pay a monetary fee then buy doing so that item is then (wether you have meant it to be or not) the price of that monetary fee.
You can keep saying it as often as you like, but the concept of "free with purchase" is well established and no one is under any obligation to honor your personal redefinition of it. Free with purchase means you purchase this, you get that for free. The seller has no obligation to make the free item available for purchase any other way. You aren't entitled to the gifting badge: Kabam is entirely within their rights to give it for free to the players who spent money on other things.
They could give the badge away for free to any player whose first name begins with a K: that doesn't mean the cost of the badge is the cost of a legal name change in your state, just because that's the only way to get it.
They did compensate. (maybe not great 300 units) but that wasn't what my comment was for.. I been reading were people who spent like 700.00 in gifting in last week are now demanding money back. These gift we're used and done before
Ok I been hearing that people are demanding refunds for units and cash that they have already gifted before this had happened. Far as I can tell this only effects what happens from here on out. This means that if kabaam reamburses people there money/units ect. These people demanding reembursment are eccentially doubling there money/units because they already reaped the benefits of past gifting. In my mind these people are conartists and are probably part of the original problem in first place... PS I do not care about my spelling or Grammer this is a thought post not a college paper.....
Is it really that hard for people to understand people spent 30 dollars to have a gifting badge. Yes it was 30 dollars. Only way to get it was to pay 30 dollars. Cant say it was free because it was not. It was suppose to be for permanent gifting. So as long as u have your account. That is no longer true. they took it away so they should compensate people what they spent when they were told they would always have it
These people are arguing semantics and legal jargon. From a business sense some of it is correct, morally it is not though. They are right in saying you are not owed more legally. They are not right in arguing that the badge was worth nothing. It cost $30.
Yah know, simply demanding something be refunded typically won't end with that result in most cases. ESPECIALLY when you don't take the time to read the fine print. @GroundedWisdom broke it down nicely. I said something similar earlier. It is what it is. MAYBE Kabam will throw us another bone, maybe not. Fact is, we're technically not owed anything no matter how you flip it.
The only thing I feel will be owed is access to the Badge again for those who already paid for it. Provided Gifting returns. I understand, as do most, that there's many who wouldn't have purchased the unit package without the badge. That doesn't detour from the fact you chose to buy the units and got the badge for free. Not the other way around. You can scream and holler rip off all you want, the fact is, they delivered and some nasty people exploited the system in a VERY nefarious manner. As a result, something had to be done.
@Kabam Miike is there any chance you could clarify whether this will be permanent? Is there currently plans to attempt to bring Gifting back as a permanent feature? I know it said the Gifting events will currently be the only time we can for now. Is that to imply there will be an attempt to bring it back? Or is it looking bleak? Personally, this is all I'm concerned with. Yes, it would be nice to get another bone throw our way in the meantime either way. Many would agree that if there's no plans to bring it back, then the would be compensation is a little underwhelming. If it is coming back (or at least an attempt at this point), those that purchased it shouldn't be required to buy it again. If that's the case, 300 units is all good in my book for now. Best of luck with this one. Clearly people aren't happy, and it is understandable. Just the same people, try to bare in mind others got it worse as a result of this feature. Wouldn't it be better to have them disable and fix vs just letting people continue to exploit it?
They did compensate. (maybe not great 300 units) but that wasn't what my comment was for.. I been reading were people who spent like 700.00 in gifting in last week are now demanding money back. These gift we're used and done before
Really 300 units is not compensation. Anything spent with the GB shouldn't be refunded. But individuals who specifically spent the 30 dollars to always have a GB should get a refund. I woulda never bought it if I knew it would be taken away
undefined The only way to get the badge permanently was to spend 30 dollars? How is that not buying the badge?
The Badge was a free add-on that came with the one-time purchase of 850 Units. The Unit Offer IS the purchase. Same price as that Offer always is. People bought and used 850 Units. The Badge came as a free gift. I don't like it either. It was nice to borrow a Rev now and then from my guys when I needed it. However, when we're talking Theft and Fraud, that's no joke. Unfortunately, that's the length of the greed that some people have. They don't care. They just hock off whoever they want, and the end result is no one can use it.
If I can't get the badge permanently any other way it's not free. I paid for that badge. Unless there was some way to unlock it without spending money I paid for the badge, units, and whatever else came in that deal as far as I'm concerned.
850 Units isn't just whatever comes with it. That's the Offer. That's the Offer every day. The Badge was a free gift, and it was abused. So they had to remove it.
GW I get what you're saying. I honestly truly do, but I wouldn't had bought the offer if it wasn't for the gifting badge. I don't need to buy units. Like someone already said in this thread, whoever bought the offer most likely had the thoughts of "I want the gifting badge." not "I want the Units and hey look a gifting badge."
then would you be willing to give back 850 units to get your money back? when I bought it I had the idea, "man I get the units and the gifting badge? cool, count me in." I can count on my fingers and toes the number of times I have gifted.
I've legit said in this thread at least 3 times that they can take the units back if they give me my money back lol.
How would you go about doing that? How many Accounts bought the Offer? Would you just send $30 to every Account used to purchase the Badge and hope it hits its target? That's not feasible. Unfortunately, the Refund Policy is in the TOS.
You can send the refund to the card used to purchase the badge. Or if the same card ain't used send an email to the players and let them know. It is feasible, ain't no different from how Steam does it. If you ask for a refund on Steam they send you your money back and take away the game you want refunded. Same concept would work in this situation. Whoever bought the badge and wants a refund should get their 30 dollars back and the 850 units taken away.
That's an insane amount of internal work. What if they don't have the 850 Units? Then that just compounds the problem. There's a reason they have a non-refundable policy.
Well they caused an insane amount of outrage and craziness not saying that they were gonna cancel the gifting badge. They can fix their mistakes. Better start thinking of a solution cause this game is gonna die soon if they keep doing stuff like this.
When you create content that has no other way of being utilised other then to pay a monetary fee then buy doing so that item is then (wether you have meant it to be or not) the price of that monetary fee.
You can keep saying it as often as you like, but the concept of "free with purchase" is well established and no one is under any obligation to honor your personal redefinition of it. Free with purchase means you purchase this, you get that for free. The seller has no obligation to make the free item available for purchase any other way. You aren't entitled to the gifting badge: Kabam is entirely within their rights to give it for free to the players who spent money on other things.
They could give the badge away for free to any player whose first name begins with a K: that doesn't mean the cost of the badge is the cost of a legal name change in your state, just because that's the only way to get it.
They didn’t give it away for free, they didn’t give it away to people who spent on other things, they gave it to the people who purchased a $30 bundle with the gifting badge in it. They didn’t give it to people who’s name started with K. People had to pay for the badge. They paid $30.
I’m not gonna get mad about the gifting badge being removed...but a mere 300units to compensate for it? Is that really all. You think it’s worth?😂 I mean me, along with many others, bought the Tony Stark deal specifically FOR this badge. 300 units doesnt even cover half of it if I’m not mistaken. I kinda feel for Mike too though bc whenever they have to deal with this kind of backlash you rarely see anyone but him respond to anything lol it’s almost like...they don’t care(who knew? Lol) and just want him to deal with it while they do, well, nothing lol
@Kabam Vydious@Kabam Miike and company... you and other suggest that the value of the gifting badge can't be quantified at the same value as the units spend to obtain it. I believe that is faulty logic. It's like any promotion that has value added that make the promotion more appealing to the purchaser. It would be like the taking away the free add ons you get from buying an Odin on the cyber monday deals. Imagine all the people who bought that deal and then Kabam takes away the awakening gem and gives you 500 units. The value added typically is the reason someone would pay for the promotion. If you later take away the add item then ultimately, it takes away the reason someone would buy it. Yes the gifting badge is a one time promotion, but it coaxes a lot of newer players to pay money to Kabam where they might not have. I understand there are folks committed fraud using this tool, but there needs to be fair compensation for this. Not only does this take lawfully purchased items from a player, it change the very nature of the game and how we interact with the community. Gone are the days where alliance members can help others out with a alliance potion or an energy refill in exchange for alliance donations. You are punishing honest players for the actions of bad actors. The honest players should be compensated accordingly.
@GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?
Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.
I know you previously said you were annoyed by their decision, but c’mon...the-unit-deal-was-the-only-way-to-get-the-baaaaaadge. That within itself gives the badge value, otherwise I’m sure most of the people here wouldn’t have bought the deal.
Im sure most on here have spent more than $30 in unit deals over the years (most will claim to be f2p though) most hardly sent or received gifts (outside of gifting event)
When you create content that has no other way of being utilised other then to pay a monetary fee then buy doing so that item is then (wether you have meant it to be or not) the price of that monetary fee.
You can keep saying it as often as you like, but the concept of "free with purchase" is well established and no one is under any obligation to honor your personal redefinition of it. Free with purchase means you purchase this, you get that for free. The seller has no obligation to make the free item available for purchase any other way. You aren't entitled to the gifting badge: Kabam is entirely within their rights to give it for free to the players who spent money on other things.
They could give the badge away for free to any player whose first name begins with a K: that doesn't mean the cost of the badge is the cost of a legal name change in your state, just because that's the only way to get it.
People had to pay for the units. They paid $30. They also got the badge as a gift
I got the 300 units you sent for the gifting badge...... SWEET. thanks.. I wasnt expecting any form of compensation. so this is nice.. Gonna buy a bunch of energy and get myself on step closer to uncollected..
I can understand why gifting has to be taken away but we bought the badge with real money and all we get back is 300 in compensation, it should be at least 850 which is the same money spent what is in the unit package deals, please Kabam you need to rectify this issue or at least give everybody back there money because it was meant to be a permanent thing.
Comments
A) doesn't laugh out loud
And please don’t use the “the gifting badge had no value” angle...that was the only way to get that badge outside of waiting for the seasonal temp handout
**edit: I’m surprised that took so long to approve. Apologies on the double-post**
Can we have a candid discussion? We all know what prompted this. It’s all over Reddit and other places. Now while you can’t directly reply to that aspect of it, can you address a few key and worrisome points?
1) Why now? Why not after AQ/AW ended? Is a war on right now? I’m not sure my alliance is sitting this season out. But I digress, your action to remove it before AQ ends can directly impact a large amount of people. People who gift potions to players to finish lanes and or kill bosses. Can we get an answer to that? To me it was underhanded. By maybe there is more behind the timing.
2) Some of us used the GB to gift our alts different items. Some people have bought this badge across multiple toons to assist with potions for LoL runs. I have 2 accounts that I could have made use of for gifts to help progress my game. They don’t have the badge but I was thinking about it as they each now have quite a substantial amount of units built up from events and quests. This stops that. When you reenable this will it impact lower level alts?
3) The purchase of the GB should be valued at the unit pack it came with. Many of us simply bought this pack for one reason only. But you guys valued it at less than 50%. If you can sit there and honestly say that people bought the unit pack for the units and not the badge then I can see the justification of this low unit replacement. But if you think even the slightest that maybe just maybe more than not people bought it for the ability to gift then we need the full value. And saying the GB had no value and was an add-on is a cop-out. If it has no value it would have been purchasable with units at will. But you all made a metric ton of mo wh off this purchase simply because of that badge.
3 small points. I believe you are being as transparent as you can be and know you have a fine line to walk, but maybe you can answer those questions.
Far as I can tell this only effects what happens from here on out. This means that if kabaam reamburses people there money/units ect. These people demanding reembursment are eccentially doubling there money/units because they already reaped the benefits of past gifting. In my mind these people are conartists and are probably part of the original problem in first place... PS I do not care about my spelling or Grammer this is a thought post not a college paper.....
TOS and the Legalese are like an elite club. in order to understand it you need a specialized or advanced education that not everyone has the time or circumstances to prioritize or strive for. it is unrealistic to expect more people to read it, and it is an appeal to the better angels of our nature to want to assume that we are not going to get screwed over for not reading it. i am tempted toward nihilism all the time, but i still don't want to assume i will be screwed over for not reading the TOS.
in my eyes, claims like this just normalize bad behavior. we shouldn't have to assume we'll get screwed over all the time.
society makes cynics of us all, but it should't be that way.
it's a sick sad world i know, but i don't want to be reminded while i'm vacationing in my little mobile game.
They could give the badge away for free to any player whose first name begins with a K: that doesn't mean the cost of the badge is the cost of a legal name change in your state, just because that's the only way to get it.
The only thing I feel will be owed is access to the Badge again for those who already paid for it. Provided Gifting returns. I understand, as do most, that there's many who wouldn't have purchased the unit package without the badge. That doesn't detour from the fact you chose to buy the units and got the badge for free. Not the other way around. You can scream and holler rip off all you want, the fact is, they delivered and some nasty people exploited the system in a VERY nefarious manner. As a result, something had to be done.
@Kabam Miike is there any chance you could clarify whether this will be permanent? Is there currently plans to attempt to bring Gifting back as a permanent feature? I know it said the Gifting events will currently be the only time we can for now. Is that to imply there will be an attempt to bring it back? Or is it looking bleak? Personally, this is all I'm concerned with. Yes, it would be nice to get another bone throw our way in the meantime either way. Many would agree that if there's no plans to bring it back, then the would be compensation is a little underwhelming. If it is coming back (or at least an attempt at this point), those that purchased it shouldn't be required to buy it again. If that's the case, 300 units is all good in my book for now. Best of luck with this one. Clearly people aren't happy, and it is understandable. Just the same people, try to bare in mind others got it worse as a result of this feature. Wouldn't it be better to have them disable and fix vs just letting people continue to exploit it?
300 units is nothing compared with the money I paid.
I kinda feel for Mike too though bc whenever they have to deal with this kind of backlash you rarely see anyone but him respond to anything lol it’s almost like...they don’t care(who knew? Lol) and just want him to deal with it while they do, well, nothing lol