Gain a Dimensional Link buff causing Dormammu to continually gain Dark Energy for X seconds.
Loki Curses the opponent, dealing X Energy Damage and allowing him to steal any of the opponent's Buffs for 10.5 seconds. Stolen Buffs last for 7 second(s).
The video doesn’t showcase many possible bugs and displays a lack of understanding.
This is an incomplete novel and I really shouldn’t even bother posting it.
Loki was one of my first 5/50 champions, I obtained him from his original arena and used him throughout many areas of the game. This early introduction to buff steals helped me understand what could and could not be stolen and educated me on the difference between Buffs and Passives. All this happened prior to a lot of the information Kabam made available to players.
First off, buffs and passives have been complicated by Kabam’s attempt at balancing various interactions while trying to explain it to players. The whole thing is very complicated and has evolved over time as Kabam has continually changed the language they use in an attempt to better convey how the mechanics work. It’s super convoluted so I do not begrudge anyone for not understanding/comprehending certain interactions; do not take my descriptions of what’s shown and conveyed as a slight against the video’s author.
There is some misinformation and ignorance included in the video; there are also some interactions that tmk very well should interact with buff steals (stealing Corvus’ buff). Also there are some steals that would be redundant; Stealing Annhilius’s cosmic control rod would do nothing for the person who stole it so transferring the icon would not have any beneficial effect for the player. There is also Ice armor, stealing it will give you the +armor from the buff but the 5% max damage is Iceman’s ability when he has ice armor not the armor effects ability.
It’s very complicated so I will not be able to explain all of it and the video is further complicated by all the additions and extraneous fluff included which makes it very difficult to break down everything in a timely manner.
In the past, all effects (buffs and passives) were indistinguishable from each other as they shared the same icon style and there was no information on the pause screen to help distinguish them (patch 19.0 added this functionality). This explains some of the interactions like Punisher’s endure. Icons were changed to differentiate between passive effects and buffs. (1) 15.1 was the start of differentiating Passive in game so players could better understand the interactions; prior to this players had to observe the effects and have a more intimate knowledge of the game.
Symbiote Spiderman was explained also. (2)
(1) (This description is outdated and has been amended to replace Passive Buffs and Passive Debuffs with Passive Effects; to help alleviate confusion(?)) https://playcontestofchampions.com/v15-1-release-notes/ In-Fight interface has been updated to better showcase the difference between Buffs from Nodes - Buffs, Debuffs and Passive Effects that a Champion gets from a Node now have an extra icon to help differentiate them - Active Buffs and Active Debuffs will be unchanged - Passive Buffs and Passive Debuffs will no longer have a colored border to better distinguish them from Active Buffs
(2) https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/426988#Comment_426988 When we made the change to True Strike to make it more effective against Auto-Block, we also updated the way evasion worked so True Strike would work against it. This change created a problem with anyone that tried to copy the Buff. The solution that we came up with was to make it a Passive Buff so that it could not be copied.
While this change may make a few Champions less effective against another small group of Champions in specific ways, on a larger level this change is a buff to underused Champions such as Spider-Man (Symbiote), Spider-Gwen, and Howard the Duck.
We apologize to everyone for the unintended omission of this change from the patch notes, and appreciate everyone that pointed this out to us! We have already discussed internal process changes that we will be making to better ensure that we don't have oversights like this again.
At least many of the unique buffs shown can be Stolen by Venompool and be converted into heal buff. But i agree that the steal abilitys are very limited at this state of the game.
Another thread out there where this same video was also shared (think I’ve seen it in 3 different threads today) had a nice detailed reply by someone about the complaints in the video.
It seems like barring the evasion buff, Kabam prevents champ specific buffs to be stolen. Klyntar mutation buff, Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, and Dimensional Link are specific to certain champions so it would seem strange for Rogue and Loki to steal those. I’m only guessing that was the design choice to not be able to steal unique buffs like these as it wouldn’t really make sense. I mean why should Loki and Rogue be granted Thanos Favor?
But Thanos Favor and the Cosmic Control Rod CAN be stolen 😐. So can Ice Armor. The icon shows up when u steal it from Iceman but it takes more than 5% SP3 Damage, so that is a visual bug
The video shows all these examples. Its really no rhyme or reason behind it. I think @Hamin was right.... the answer is 42
Considering you are NOT Iceman, then there is no problem in the wording
I hate when u guys do this... not the wording for Iceman. The wording for Rogue and Loki that says they can STEAL ALL BUFFS. And if it doesn't work as intended what's the point of letting us steal it. Just make it a passive.... like Phoenix force and there would be no confusion
The video shows all these examples. Its really no rhyme or reason behind it. I think @Hamin was right.... the answer is 42
Considering you are NOT Iceman, then there is no problem in the wording
I hate when u guys do this... not the wording for Iceman. The wording for Rogue and Loki that says they can STEAL ALL BUFFS. And if it doesn't work as intended what's the point of letting us steal it. Just make it a passive.... like Phoenix force and there would be no confusion
But for Ice armor for example, it works. It increases your armor rating. It just doesn't cap the damage since that is Iceman's ability
The video shows all these examples. Its really no rhyme or reason behind it. I think @Hamin was right.... the answer is 42
Considering you are NOT Iceman, then there is no problem in the wording
I hate when u guys do this... not the wording for Iceman. The wording for Rogue and Loki that says they can STEAL ALL BUFFS. And if it doesn't work as intended what's the point of letting us steal it. Just make it a passive.... like Phoenix force and there would be no confusion
But for Ice armor for example, it works. It increases your armor rating. It just doesn't cap the damage since that is Iceman's ability
Okay I see what you mean. Its weird to even let us steal it if we can't take advantage of the full ability but I see the loophole on that one
It seems like barring the evasion buff, Kabam prevents champ specific buffs to be stolen. Klyntar mutation buff, Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, and Dimensional Link are specific to certain champions so it would seem strange for Rogue and Loki to steal those. I’m only guessing that was the design choice to not be able to steal unique buffs like these as it wouldn’t really make sense. I mean why should Loki and Rogue be granted Thanos Favor?
But Thanos Favor and the Cosmic Control Rod CAN be stolen 😐. So can Ice Armor. The icon shows up when u steal it from Iceman but it takes more than 5% SP3 Damage, so that is a visual bug
From what I saw in the video, no they can’t. There are no Thanos Favor or Cosmic Rod icons after it’s stolen.
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
But when designed that way, it should be mentioned. Usually, it’s phrased as a “buff lasting six seconds” or “permanent buff”. These buffs aren’t specified as “unstealable”.
They should, and for the most part they do. Passives aren't buffs, so they aren't stealable. Things like Ice Armor are stealable, but they rely on special mechanics that the original champion has and the stealing champion doesn't have, so they don't work they way you expect when stolen. Dr. Strange is an even better example of this: you can steal the buffs that signal his phases, but you can't steal his phases themselves because those aren't buffs. The buff he gets is a "trigger" for the underlying abilities that can't be stolen. So you can steal the trigger, but not the ability. This could be explained better in theory. And then there are some buffs that can't be stolen at all, and I agree these should be documented when that's the case.
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
Thats cool. I'm not against them designing things how they want. Its just one of their more important mechanics and if it won't work on certain buffs because they decided so it could at least be in the text. I don't think people would be cool with grinding and shelling out money to get Sinister only to find out he only transfers the debuffs they want him to if they say he transfers them all
it is not an important mechanic but for a couple champs, so I would not say it was one of their more important ones.
It seems like barring the evasion buff, Kabam prevents champ specific buffs to be stolen. Klyntar mutation buff, Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, and Dimensional Link are specific to certain champions so it would seem strange for Rogue and Loki to steal those. I’m only guessing that was the design choice to not be able to steal unique buffs like these as it wouldn’t really make sense. I mean why should Loki and Rogue be granted Thanos Favor?
But Thanos Favor and the Cosmic Control Rod CAN be stolen 😐. So can Ice Armor. The icon shows up when u steal it from Iceman but it takes more than 5% SP3 Damage, so that is a visual bug
From what I saw in the video, no they can’t. There are no Thanos Favor or Cosmic Rod icons after it’s stolen.
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
Thats cool. I'm not against them designing things how they want. Its just one of their more important mechanics and if it won't work on certain buffs because they decided so it could at least be in the text. I don't think people would be cool with grinding and shelling out money to get Sinister only to find out he only transfers the debuffs they want him to if they say he transfers them all
it is not an important mechanic but for a couple champs, so I would not say it was one of their more important ones.
I didnt mean one of the more important game mechanics I meant for Rogue and Loki. I think we can all agree the ability to steal and copy buffs are those 2 characters most important assets. Without it they'd be almost basic
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
Thats cool. I'm not against them designing things how they want. Its just one of their more important mechanics and if it won't work on certain buffs because they decided so it could at least be in the text. I don't think people would be cool with grinding and shelling out money to get Sinister only to find out he only transfers the debuffs they want him to if they say he transfers them all
it is not an important mechanic but for a couple champs, so I would not say it was one of their more important ones.
I didnt mean one of the more important game mechanics I meant for Rogue and Loki. I think we can all agree the ability to steal and copy buffs are those 2 characters most important assets. Without it they'd be almost basic
More important for Loki than Rogue in my opinion. Between SP1 and curse, Loki is built around manipulating buffs (which is a calling card of most mystic champs). Rogue on the other hand is built around healing/stealing, power control, and *some* buff control. It is important to her character concept, but I think the loss of it isn't critical to her usefulness (for example, I don't find her completely neutered when fighting tech champs, where her buff stealing ability doesn't work).
I do agree that clarification should exist when it comes to the buff steal mechanic. It would be tedious and long if they listed every buff that can or cannot be stolen in their ability page, but there should be some consistency. If my assumption is correct and they can only steal “generic” buffs (armor up, fury, precision, etc) and not specialized buffs (Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, Dimensional Link), then it should be explained as such. If you really think about those specialized buffs, then they wouldn’t affect Loki or Rogue because of their descriptions. For example, Dimensional Link is written to clearly benefit Dormammu as it specifically calls out for him to gain dark energy over time. I think if people really thought about the buffs they’re stealing (or can’t steal) it would make sense as to why it doesn’t affect Loki or Rogue.
If my assumption is correct and they can only steal “generic” buffs (armor up, fury, precision, etc) and not specialized buffs (Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, Dimensional Link), then it should be explained as such. If you really think about those specialized buffs, then they wouldn’t affect Loki or Rogue because of their descriptions. For example, Dimensional Link is written to clearly benefit Dormammu as it specifically calls out for him to gain dark energy over time.
I think the best way to deal with this is to better describe what the buff actually does, so that only what it explicitly does is something players expect to steal.
For example, Iceman's description actually almost works, if players could rely on the wording (and Kabam often screws up wording). It says that Ice Armor increases his armor rating, and then says if *Iceman* would lose more than 5* health or get stunned the Ice Armor protects against that. These are listed as passive abilities. Refactoring the description in this way would better explain what the game mechanics actually do.
Passive Ability - Ice Armor Formation
* Iceman begins the fight with an Ice Armor Buff. This buff increases armor rating by XXXX
Passive Ability - Ice Armor Protections
* Iceman cannot take more than 5% health in damage from a single source while he is protected by an Ice Armor buff. If he would take more than 5% damage that damage is capped to 5% and Ice Armor shatters. * Iceman cannot be stunned while he is protected by an Ice Armor buff. If he would be stunned the Ice Armor negates the stun, then shatters. * If Iceman's Ice Armor is shattered, Iceman reforms Ice Armor in 15 seconds. This happens only if Ice Armor is shattered as described above.
I would argue that this not only describes the abilities better, it more clearly describes what happens if you try to steal Ice Armor. You get the Ice Armor buff, but you more obviously do not get the Ice Armor Protections, which are a passive ability of Iceman that cannot be stolen.
(By the way, the last sentence of the description is something I've wanted to be in there for a very long time, it is a point of confusion for many players who wonder where their Ice Armor went when it gets nullified).
Just watched a vid on this and wanted to know have we ever gotten any reasoning behind some buffs being stealable and some not. Loki and Rogue are two of my higher champs and i don't understand or know why some buffs aren't stealable
Why do some buffs expire while others don't? Why are some buffs stronger while others weaker? These are design decisions, and whether a buff is stealable or not or nullifiable or not is just another one of those decisions.
Thats cool. I'm not against them designing things how they want. Its just one of their more important mechanics and if it won't work on certain buffs because they decided so it could at least be in the text. I don't think people would be cool with grinding and shelling out money to get Sinister only to find out he only transfers the debuffs they want him to if they say he transfers them all
it is not an important mechanic but for a couple champs, so I would not say it was one of their more important ones.
I didnt mean one of the more important game mechanics I meant for Rogue and Loki. I think we can all agree the ability to steal and copy buffs are those 2 characters most important assets. Without it they'd be almost basic
More important for Loki than Rogue in my opinion. Between SP1 and curse, Loki is built around manipulating buffs (which is a calling card of most mystic champs). Rogue on the other hand is built around healing/stealing, power control, and *some* buff control. It is important to her character concept, but I think the loss of it isn't critical to her usefulness (for example, I don't find her completely neutered when fighting tech champs, where her buff stealing ability doesn't work).
True I tend to avoid using her in class disadvantages though otherwise I agree with you said
Would be hard to try and describe in each hero's profile what all they can or can not counter, as more and more things keep being added (would be hard to go back and update profiles of everyone affected when something new comes along).
BUT, it would be great if some type of Knowledge Base (KB) spreadsheet could be maintained showing heroes interactions with different game elements (icon buffs, passives, node buffs, etc). Ie, Columns for Heroes and Rows for Game Elements.
For example, Black Widow's column could contain check marks for any Row Elements for which her Ability can counter (can she counter Spike Armor, Thorns, Auto-Evade, Auto-Block, etc, etc, or not, for every row of Elements in game)
So new Heroes (or new Elements) just get another Column (or Row) added to the Spreadsheet.
If my assumption is correct and they can only steal “generic” buffs (armor up, fury, precision, etc) and not specialized buffs (Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, Dimensional Link), then it should be explained as such. If you really think about those specialized buffs, then they wouldn’t affect Loki or Rogue because of their descriptions. For example, Dimensional Link is written to clearly benefit Dormammu as it specifically calls out for him to gain dark energy over time.
I think the best way to deal with this is to better describe what the buff actually does, so that only what it explicitly does is something players expect to steal.
For example, Iceman's description actually almost works, if players could rely on the wording (and Kabam often screws up wording). It says that Ice Armor increases his armor rating, and then says if *Iceman* would lose more than 5* health or get stunned the Ice Armor protects against that. These are listed as passive abilities. Refactoring the description in this way would better explain what the game mechanics actually do.
Passive Ability - Ice Armor Formation
* Iceman begins the fight with an Ice Armor Buff. This buff increases armor rating by XXXX
Passive Ability - Ice Armor Protections
* Iceman cannot take more than 5% health in damage from a single source while he is protected by an Ice Armor buff. If he would take more than 5% damage that damage is capped to 5% and Ice Armor shatters. * Iceman cannot be stunned while he is protected by an Ice Armor buff. If he would be stunned the Ice Armor negates the stun, then shatters. * If Iceman's Ice Armor is shattered, Iceman reforms Ice Armor in 15 seconds. This happens only if Ice Armor is shattered as described above.
I would argue that this not only describes the abilities better, it more clearly describes what happens if you try to steal Ice Armor. You get the Ice Armor buff, but you more obviously do not get the Ice Armor Protections, which are a passive ability of Iceman that cannot be stolen.
(By the way, the last sentence of the description is something I've wanted to be in there for a very long time, it is a point of confusion for many players who wonder where their Ice Armor went when it gets nullified).
I would agree that this would make more sense. Ever since they introduced passive effects, it has been extremely confusing to differentiate what they’re talking about. Especially in the case of Iceman like you mentioned or Doctor Strange which have both components.
Loki and Rogue need desperately an update to match the game’s meta and be able to steal newer buffs and abilities. That won’t be a problem as even if they would be updated, they will still remain good champs (slightly better) but not game breakers. Kabam have released way stronger champs and imo older champs interactions with newer champs should be updated with every new champ release.
Can you give any examples? I mean, I know that Carnage's power gain, and any mechanic that deals with a specific champion won't work when stolen, but I don't know any buffs that can't be stolen (except passive ones, but they're technically not buffs).
Hoof's invisibility is an example of unstealable buff
This was an interesting video that really exposes some issues with the game, Something is either a buff or it isn’t, and can be stolen or nullified (unless otherwise stated) and should trigger mystic dispersion.
It doesn’t matter than rogue or Loki can’t use something like the cosmic control rod. Is it a buff and can it be stolen? As new content comes out we need to know how these new buffs interact with champs like Rogue and Loki.
Re: Ice Armor Why is iceman regaining Ice Armor if Rogue has stolen it and is holding it as a buff? Her ability says that shouldn’t be happening.
“When we made the change to True Strike to make it more effective against Auto-Block, we also updated the way evasion worked so True Strike would work against it. This change created a problem with anyone that tried to copy the Buff. The solution that we came up with was to make it a Passive Buff so that it could not be copied.“
Comments
Gain a Dimensional Link buff causing Dormammu to continually gain Dark Energy for X seconds.
Loki Curses the opponent, dealing X Energy Damage and allowing him to steal any of the opponent's Buffs for 10.5 seconds. Stolen Buffs last for 7 second(s).
This is an incomplete novel and I really shouldn’t even bother posting it.
Loki was one of my first 5/50 champions, I obtained him from his original arena and used him throughout many areas of the game. This early introduction to buff steals helped me understand what could and could not be stolen and educated me on the difference between Buffs and Passives. All this happened prior to a lot of the information Kabam made available to players.
First off, buffs and passives have been complicated by Kabam’s attempt at balancing various interactions while trying to explain it to players. The whole thing is very complicated and has evolved over time as Kabam has continually changed the language they use in an attempt to better convey how the mechanics work. It’s super convoluted so I do not begrudge anyone for not understanding/comprehending certain interactions; do not take my descriptions of what’s shown and conveyed as a slight against the video’s author.
There is some misinformation and ignorance included in the video; there are also some interactions that tmk very well should interact with buff steals (stealing Corvus’ buff). Also there are some steals that would be redundant; Stealing Annhilius’s cosmic control rod would do nothing for the person who stole it so transferring the icon would not have any beneficial effect for the player. There is also Ice armor, stealing it will give you the +armor from the buff but the 5% max damage is Iceman’s ability when he has ice armor not the armor effects ability.
It’s very complicated so I will not be able to explain all of it and the video is further complicated by all the additions and extraneous fluff included which makes it very difficult to break down everything in a timely manner.
In the past, all effects (buffs and passives) were indistinguishable from each other as they shared the same icon style and there was no information on the pause screen to help distinguish them (patch 19.0 added this functionality). This explains some of the interactions like Punisher’s endure. Icons were changed to differentiate between passive effects and buffs. (1) 15.1 was the start of differentiating Passive in game so players could better understand the interactions; prior to this players had to observe the effects and have a more intimate knowledge of the game.
Symbiote Spiderman was explained also. (2)
(1) (This description is outdated and has been amended to replace Passive Buffs and Passive Debuffs with Passive Effects; to help alleviate confusion(?))
https://playcontestofchampions.com/v15-1-release-notes/
In-Fight interface has been updated to better showcase the difference between Buffs from Nodes
- Buffs, Debuffs and Passive Effects that a Champion gets from a Node now have an extra icon to help differentiate them
- Active Buffs and Active Debuffs will be unchanged
- Passive Buffs and Passive Debuffs will no longer have a colored border to better distinguish them from Active Buffs
https://playcontestofchampions.com/v19-0-release-notes/
• Doctor Strange’s Hoggath’s Wisdom will no longer appear as a buff. It will now appear as a Passive.
(2)
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/426988#Comment_426988
When we made the change to True Strike to make it more effective against Auto-Block, we also updated the way evasion worked so True Strike would work against it. This change created a problem with anyone that tried to copy the Buff. The solution that we came up with was to make it a Passive Buff so that it could not be copied.
While this change may make a few Champions less effective against another small group of Champions in specific ways, on a larger level this change is a buff to underused Champions such as Spider-Man (Symbiote), Spider-Gwen, and Howard the Duck.
We apologize to everyone for the unintended omission of this change from the patch notes, and appreciate everyone that pointed this out to us! We have already discussed internal process changes that we will be making to better ensure that we don't have oversights like this again.
But i agree that the steal abilitys are very limited at this state of the game.
And other's are just ... not buffs
The video shows all these examples. Its really no rhyme or reason behind it. I think @Hamin was right.... the answer is 42
It just doesn't cap the damage since that is Iceman's ability
Rogue is just an old champ playing checkers while the new ones play chess
For example, Iceman's description actually almost works, if players could rely on the wording (and Kabam often screws up wording). It says that Ice Armor increases his armor rating, and then says if *Iceman* would lose more than 5* health or get stunned the Ice Armor protects against that. These are listed as passive abilities. Refactoring the description in this way would better explain what the game mechanics actually do. I would argue that this not only describes the abilities better, it more clearly describes what happens if you try to steal Ice Armor. You get the Ice Armor buff, but you more obviously do not get the Ice Armor Protections, which are a passive ability of Iceman that cannot be stolen.
(By the way, the last sentence of the description is something I've wanted to be in there for a very long time, it is a point of confusion for many players who wonder where their Ice Armor went when it gets nullified).
BUT, it would be great if some type of Knowledge Base (KB) spreadsheet could be maintained showing heroes interactions with different game elements (icon buffs, passives, node buffs, etc). Ie, Columns for Heroes and Rows for Game Elements.
For example, Black Widow's column could contain check marks for any Row Elements for which her Ability can counter (can she counter Spike Armor, Thorns, Auto-Evade, Auto-Block, etc, etc, or not, for every row of Elements in game)
So new Heroes (or new Elements) just get another Column (or Row) added to the Spreadsheet.
(By the way, the last sentence of the description is something I've wanted to be in there for a very long time, it is a point of confusion for many players who wonder where their Ice Armor went when it gets nullified).
I would agree that this would make more sense. Ever since they introduced passive effects, it has been extremely confusing to differentiate what they’re talking about. Especially in the case of Iceman like you mentioned or Doctor Strange which have both components.
It doesn’t matter than rogue or Loki can’t use something like the cosmic control rod. Is it a buff and can it be stolen? As new content comes out we need to know how these new buffs interact with champs like Rogue and Loki.
Re: Ice Armor
Why is iceman regaining Ice Armor if Rogue has stolen it and is holding it as a buff? Her ability says that shouldn’t be happening.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/426988#Comment_426988
“When we made the change to True Strike to make it more effective against Auto-Block, we also updated the way evasion worked so True Strike would work against it. This change created a problem with anyone that tried to copy the Buff. The solution that we came up with was to make it a Passive Buff so that it could not be copied.“
@will-o-wisp
With all due respect, I don’t think you should post “there’s no such thing as a passive buff” anymore.
Why? Because people can be wrong, mistype or use outdated language when conveying something.