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Behold, the June Event Quest: Imperius Rex!

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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    Having a 6th doesn't mean people have to necessarily go out and do all 6.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    Having a 6th doesn't mean people have to necessarily go out and do all 6.
    Correct but it becomes cluttered and lags more the more you add. Without.taking something away.

    Think future beginner normal heroic.masters uc cavalier some other title, and so on it's bad design
    At the moment, we have Cavalier to worry about. Uncollected has been around quite a long time. I don't think we need to worry about another past Cavalier for some time. Besides, it's almost necessary. Once people have R3 6*s, they're going to feel even more under-rewarded and bored with the level of challenge. The only alternative is to increase the challenge level to a point where it's not fair or reasonable for those lower.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    Having a 6th doesn't mean people have to necessarily go out and do all 6.
    Correct but it becomes cluttered and lags more the more you add. Without.taking something away.

    Think future beginner normal heroic.masters uc cavalier some other title, and so on it's bad design
    At the moment, we have Cavalier to worry about. Uncollected has been around quite a long time. I don't think we need to worry about another past Cavalier for some time. Besides, it's almost necessary. Once people have R3 6*s, they're going to feel even more under-rewarded and bored with the level of challenge. The only alternative is to increase the challenge level to a point where it's not fair or reasonable for those lower.
    Man I'm a programmer you NEVER design for today by the time your done it's already tomorrow and your outdated.

    Always design with the future as the goal
    Designing for the future is exactly the reason I suggested adding one to begin with. Lol.
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    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,971 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike it seemed like there were a fair number of new champs on the list for daily events. Is there a way to get them on our rosters at this juncture if we missed their crystals?
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    Having a 6th doesn't mean people have to necessarily go out and do all 6.
    Correct but it becomes cluttered and lags more the more you add. Without.taking something away.

    Think future beginner normal heroic.masters uc cavalier some other title, and so on it's bad design
    At the moment, we have Cavalier to worry about. Uncollected has been around quite a long time. I don't think we need to worry about another past Cavalier for some time. Besides, it's almost necessary. Once people have R3 6*s, they're going to feel even more under-rewarded and bored with the level of challenge. The only alternative is to increase the challenge level to a point where it's not fair or reasonable for those lower.
    Man I'm a programmer you NEVER design for today by the time your done it's already tomorrow and your outdated.

    Always design with the future as the goal
    Designing for the future is exactly the reason I suggested adding one to begin with. Lol.
    I'm saying design it for r3 6s now or regret it later maybe even r4s .
    How long do you think you can cram everyone into the same Difficulty before it becomes a significant issue? The level of challenge has to meet the level of growth. Otherwise, it puts strains on a number of areas. Uncollected encompasses a large demo, one that is growing because of Act 6. I mean, it may be possible to add another Chapter that is accessible after 100% UC, but even that is just buying time. You have to create something that people can grow into. Not just a kennel for the level thus far.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Uncollected has accelerated growth much faster than just the transition from Heroic to Master. As will Cavalier.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    Drooped2 said:

    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    Having a 6th doesn't mean people have to necessarily go out and do all 6.
    Correct but it becomes cluttered and lags more the more you add. Without.taking something away.

    Think future beginner normal heroic.masters uc cavalier some other title, and so on it's bad design
    At the moment, we have Cavalier to worry about. Uncollected has been around quite a long time. I don't think we need to worry about another past Cavalier for some time. Besides, it's almost necessary. Once people have R3 6*s, they're going to feel even more under-rewarded and bored with the level of challenge. The only alternative is to increase the challenge level to a point where it's not fair or reasonable for those lower.
    Man I'm a programmer you NEVER design for today by the time your done it's already tomorrow and your outdated.

    Always design with the future as the goal
    Designing for the future is exactly the reason I suggested adding one to begin with. Lol.
    I'm saying design it for r3 6s now or regret it later maybe even r4s .
    How long do you think you can cram everyone into the same Difficulty before it becomes a significant issue? The level of challenge has to meet the level of growth. Otherwise, it puts strains on a number of areas. Uncollected encompasses a large demo, one that is growing because of Act 6. I mean, it may be possible to add another Chapter that is accessible after 100% UC, but even that is just buying time. You have to create something that people can grow into. Not just a kennel for the level thus far.
    That's why you future proof it to be harder then what's available make it just below variant level.

    Making it after uc wont really help as UC has grown too easy anyways..
    Not sure where I crammed everyone in.

    I'm just saying 5 difficulties is fine cutting beginner wont hurt anyone really
    I really don't see how cutting Beginner will help anyone. It's literally for Beginners. Lol.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,843 Guardian
    xNig said:

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    That's both a difficult question and an easy question. The difficult aspect is that it is virtually impossible to know what the challenge level should be at the moment, and that's completely factoring out the issues of deciding what the difficulty goal should be. Even knowing how "hard or easy" the devs want it to be, it seems virtually impossible to aim for that target.

    But that means this question is also easy. You make the map have easy, harder, and super hard paths at release, and see how the players do. Having multiple path difficulties means you'll get a better idea where the players fall, and that data can be used to tweak difficulty over time. You also provide a mini-progress path where players can start by only being able to do initial completion, and can work towards full exploration.

    In my opinion this is something that doesn't currently exist to quite the same degree in lower difficulty tiers. Whether you run the easy path or the hard path, in my opinion most of the difficulty in master and uncollected is in the final boss. But I felt that Act 6.1 was different: the difficulty was more balanced between paths and bosses, so it was more meaningful to be able to do the easy path and then kill the boss, compared to doing the hard path and killing the boss: the boss wasn't the primary decider of whether you could finish the map much of the time.

    I think Cav difficulty, if it gets introduced, should be more like that. Instead of 90% of the difficulty concentrated in the boss and 10% in the paths which makes the distinction between easy path and hard path almost meaningless, it should be more like 50% in the boss and 50% in the paths, so it is possible to finish the easy path and complete the map even if it is too difficult to complete the hard paths and get full exploration.

    Incidentally, I should point out that I would, if it was my job to design this, front load Cav rewards more in completion than exploration. The highest difficulty paths should be hard enough so as to challenge the highest players, but we can't make the rewards for that highest difficulty proportionately higher because then the very top of the playerbase can exponentially run away from everyone else progressionally. I think that's always a bad idea: past a certain point you have to either have diminishing reward returns, or you're going to be sorry down the road when you've bifurcated your playerbase in a way you can't fix.
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    xNigxNig Posts: 7,260 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    Honestly the only other thing I can think of would be to make pi and health scale based on what you bring (were gonna use prestige as an example) all r2 6s? Content is *harder* then the guy with r3 5s.

    And make rewards scale to that somehow

    Alternative is to gate it similar to how A6.2 is gated. As much as it artificially increases the difficulty, it’ll be better than just slapping more health more attack on defenders.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,843 Guardian

    I really think people are making to big of a deal about a new difficulty. They made the current rewards work for around 2 years. Slap an extra 1000 6 star shards, a full t2a, 10k 5 star shards and 15k t5b and I’d be happy for awhile. Those numbers aren’t going to destroy the economy of the game.

    I don't know how you prove those numbers don't "destroy the economy of the game" or why that's a meaningful criteria in any case, but if the developers increased Uncollected rewards by that much I would assume they had completely lost their minds. That kind of reward inflation doesn't destroy game economies, it eliminates their existence.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Yeah I'm with DNA on this one. For starters, they keep track of everything. Also, that's quite an extreme increase for the same amount of effort required.
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    BuckNakedBuckNaked Posts: 1
    Can you guys up the t1a rewards at very least? The meta has shifted significantly towards 5* and 6* rank ups. Getting past r2 is 10 t1as alone! Surely you can do better than 3 for master?
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,843 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    I really think people are making to big of a deal about a new difficulty. They made the current rewards work for around 2 years. Slap an extra 1000 6 star shards, a full t2a, 10k 5 star shards and 15k t5b and I’d be happy for awhile. Those numbers aren’t going to destroy the economy of the game.

    I don't know how you prove those numbers don't "destroy the economy of the game" or why that's a meaningful criteria in any case, but if the developers increased Uncollected rewards by that much I would assume they had completely lost their minds. That kind of reward inflation doesn't destroy game economies, it eliminates their existence.
    Lol. A full 5 star and t2a would destroy the economy? Please. You can buy as many shards as you’d like so the shards have no bearing imo. I have no idea how 3.5k 5 star shards, 6k t5b, and half an alpha could ruin the game....
    I'm sure you don't. People said that about accelerating the availability of 5* shards as well back in the day. Which of course quickened the arrival of 6* champions. We currently pursue T2A and T5B because T4B and T4CC were eliminated as top tier rare rewards, and T5CC are just now being introduced.

    You don't get to decide how available the top tier stuff is. You maybe get to decide how fast it becomes obsolete as top tier stuff, and prompt the addition of higher, more expensive, even harder to get stuff. Radically increasing the availability of 6* shards and T5B simply moves forward the date when 7* champs and T6B arrive in the game, even rarer, even more expensive.

    This is so obvious, so absolutely predictable for progressional games that I predicted it would happen when Kabam started radically increasing the availability of T4CC, and again when they did the same thing with 5* shards. And it rather amazes me when people are surprised when the next tier arrives to make the current top tier stuff obsolete as top tier stuff. One day we will be earning stuff as fast as your post implies. That day is probably a year or two away. Doing it now means we get two years less to build and use rosters at their current levels, and we get to watch the whales shoot past everyone else with 7* champs.

    That's assuming the game survived that level of reward inflation. Not all games do.
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    MavRCK_MavRCK_ Posts: 474 ★★★
    Double the 5* rewards everywhere.
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    Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Good that rewards are increased. But as usual, because the increment is relatively small, there will be complaints like “That’s it?”, which is kinda disappointing but expected.

    Adding a Cav difficulty isn’t a bad option but the level of challenge it should provide is questionable. Should it be tuned to 5* R5/6* R2 level? Or 6* R3/4 level?

    If it were the former, then after a short time, Cavalier difficulty becomes “too easy”. If the latter, then it might be “too difficult” upon release. Imo it’s a tough balancing act and definitely not a sustainable one, with the game’s future in mind. It’s unlikely that we want to stack Easy / Normal / Heroic / Masters / Uncollected / Cavalier / xxx / yyy etc.

    My suggestion to Kabam will be to have a limit on the number of difficulties made available to players. Eg max of 5 based on the highest story progression title the player holds, in the current context, it’s Cavalier. Energy considerations might need to be considered as well.

    I’d say 5* r5 level as in reality when you get cavalier no one would have a r3 6* heck no ones gonn have one of them till 6:3
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