Fight Randomized Opponents and Buffs in Sinister Labs!

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  • MrTicTac19992008MrTicTac19992008 Posts: 419
    Has anyone else noticed that Particle Protector and Micro Reflect always appear together?
  • TRONG94TRONG94 Posts: 199

    Has anyone else noticed that Particle Protector and Micro Reflect always appear together?

    Yes, me too. Everytime I see that combination, I use a randomizer immediately. Idk if there is anyone other than CB or Quake that can counter it.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,577 ★★★★
    TRONG94 said:

    Has anyone else noticed that Particle Protector and Micro Reflect always appear together?

    Yes, me too. Everytime I see that combination, I use a randomizer immediately. Idk if there is anyone other than CB or Quake that can counter it.
    Namor is fantastic for it
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,698 ★★★★★

    TRONG94 said:

    Has anyone else noticed that Particle Protector and Micro Reflect always appear together?

    Yes, me too. Everytime I see that combination, I use a randomizer immediately. Idk if there is anyone other than CB or Quake that can counter it.
    Namor is fantastic for it
    Namor is fantastic for most of the BS damage in the game but other than that it's like unavoidable damage ... I usually use Void for these nodes ...
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 1,589 ★★★★
    The Variant 2 nodes need to be removed. They're basically an automatic rerolls. Unless its unspoken but active they dont even allow XL champs to ignore the glancing. I know heavy attacks on medium champs dont. So basically no work around. Overall though the labs are fine, just reroll the really bad nodes
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 192 ★★
    I been doing Epic and not just master but I would say it isn't worth it for most players. I think Master is a great sweet spot and you get better rewards for doing Master in my opinion.
  • MrTicTac19992008MrTicTac19992008 Posts: 419
    Why does Cull Obsidian gain power on the Tyranny node if he's not tagged as a villain?
  • DrBairagiDrBairagi Posts: 16

    Honestly, I dont mind the difficulty. However, it feels more like epic is meant for Cavaliers, instead of uncollected. In addition, the rewards should have been seriously increased. Im not dealing with this level of difficulty and struggle each day for a month to gain 30x80 6* shards and 30x350 5* shards.

    I am cavalier and I tried using the boosts too. After 5-6 revives on my 6 star R2 corvus I completed Epic once.
    After that I am happy doing till master. Epic is for seriously legends and those with very very high skill like they kill without touching the defenders.
    I am decent in skills, not great, not bad. I feel this difficulty is not for me.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 324 ★★
    edited August 14
    DrBairagi said:

    Honestly, I dont mind the difficulty. However, it feels more like epic is meant for Cavaliers, instead of uncollected. In addition, the rewards should have been seriously increased. Im not dealing with this level of difficulty and struggle each day for a month to gain 30x80 6* shards and 30x350 5* shards.

    I am cavalier and I tried using the boosts too. After 5-6 revives on my 6 star R2 corvus I completed Epic once.
    After that I am happy doing till master. Epic is for seriously legends and those with very very high skill like they kill without touching the defenders.
    I am decent in skills, not great, not bad. I feel this difficulty is not for me.
    Corvus is terrible for this kind of content wether he’s R2 or R5. Needs an easy kill to get going and there are none to be had. Been taking capIW, domino and hype at 5/65 and quake, Hawkeye at 4/65 and having no problems apart from the occasional re-roll. Fully aware not everyone has 5/65’s and it’s far from easy but it’s not endgame level stuff either, my big gripe is the reward structure.
    Can promise you I’m far from an expert also
  • JMORG1111JMORG1111 Posts: 20
    edited August 14
    For everyone who keeps saying this isn't end game content:

    Here is a screenshot of what Kabam has said a team PI of 30,000 should be able to handle. Its directly from 5.2.4 Lines In The Sand, recommended team PI 30,200.




    Here is a screenshot of champs from 6.2.1 (literally the current endgame chapter).



    The epic quests are much more aligned with the endgame than not. It's not impossible, but stop saying it's not end game content.
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,107 Guardian
    One other thing that I think was a miss on this event is the boosts. Majority of these boosts are meant to counter specific champs but the real difficulty comes from the nodes and not the champs. A few of them feel completely useless unless RNG rolls you one or two specific champs. I think if the boosts countered common themes that we see in the nodes they would be much more useful and fun.

    For example, I think every single one of my runs has had some form of thorns node that I've had to deal with. A boost that helped to counter that type of node would be far more useful then building up an immunity to some debuffs or giving a small chance to evade specials. Most of us that play epic bring in counters to champs such as MS, Iceman, and Abom, so a boost to build immunity doesn't really do anything to help us. Also most specials are evadable and people playing epic know how to deal with most champions special attacks even if they aren't evadable, which is why that evasion boost isn't really of benefit.
  • allinashesallinashes Posts: 335
    edited August 14

    DrBairagi said:

    Honestly, I dont mind the difficulty. However, it feels more like epic is meant for Cavaliers, instead of uncollected. In addition, the rewards should have been seriously increased. Im not dealing with this level of difficulty and struggle each day for a month to gain 30x80 6* shards and 30x350 5* shards.

    I am cavalier and I tried using the boosts too. After 5-6 revives on my 6 star R2 corvus I completed Epic once.
    After that I am happy doing till master. Epic is for seriously legends and those with very very high skill like they kill without touching the defenders.
    I am decent in skills, not great, not bad. I feel this difficulty is not for me.
    Corvus is terrible for this kind of content wether he’s R2 or R5. Needs an easy kill to get going and there are none to be had. Been taking capIW, domino and hype at 5/65 and quake, Hawkeye at 4/65 and having no problems apart from the occasional re-roll. Fully aware not everyone has 5/65’s and it’s far from easy but it’s not endgame level stuff either, my big gripe is the reward structure.
    Can promise you I’m far from an expert also
    Agreed. I've brought r5 CG a few times and he usually underperforms. I've had better luck switching him for Medusa. I've also tried Ægon but feel it's the same issue as with CG. If I don't get lucky and have an easy ramp match or two, I'm just lugging that champ along for the ride. Domino and her Trinity have been my all-stars no doubt.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 1,589 ★★★★

    DrBairagi said:

    Honestly, I dont mind the difficulty. However, it feels more like epic is meant for Cavaliers, instead of uncollected. In addition, the rewards should have been seriously increased. Im not dealing with this level of difficulty and struggle each day for a month to gain 30x80 6* shards and 30x350 5* shards.

    I am cavalier and I tried using the boosts too. After 5-6 revives on my 6 star R2 corvus I completed Epic once.
    After that I am happy doing till master. Epic is for seriously legends and those with very very high skill like they kill without touching the defenders.
    I am decent in skills, not great, not bad. I feel this difficulty is not for me.
    Corvus is terrible for this kind of content wether he’s R2 or R5. Needs an easy kill to get going and there are none to be had. Been taking capIW, domino and hype at 5/65 and quake, Hawkeye at 4/65 and having no problems apart from the occasional re-roll. Fully aware not everyone has 5/65’s and it’s far from easy but it’s not endgame level stuff either, my big gripe is the reward structure.
    Can promise you I’m far from an expert also
    I've actually run my R5 Corvus every round and he crushes most of the time. If the path doesn't offer any of his missions he obviously loses a lot of effectiveness, and occasionally I've done a sacrifice fight with a champ that doesn't offer as much over the rest of the path, but that's only if Corvus matches up well the rest of the way. Overall though I'll keep bringing him since it's worked out so well for me at least. By far my favorite was Sparky on a stun vulnerability node, those numbers are beautiful.
  • Bob_Anderson33Bob_Anderson33 Posts: 5
    Hard no. High effort: low yield.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,922 Guardian

    DrBairagi said:

    Honestly, I dont mind the difficulty. However, it feels more like epic is meant for Cavaliers, instead of uncollected. In addition, the rewards should have been seriously increased. Im not dealing with this level of difficulty and struggle each day for a month to gain 30x80 6* shards and 30x350 5* shards.

    I am cavalier and I tried using the boosts too. After 5-6 revives on my 6 star R2 corvus I completed Epic once.
    After that I am happy doing till master. Epic is for seriously legends and those with very very high skill like they kill without touching the defenders.
    I am decent in skills, not great, not bad. I feel this difficulty is not for me.
    Corvus is terrible for this kind of content wether he’s R2 or R5. Needs an easy kill to get going and there are none to be had. Been taking capIW, domino and hype at 5/65 and quake, Hawkeye at 4/65 and having no problems apart from the occasional re-roll. Fully aware not everyone has 5/65’s and it’s far from easy but it’s not endgame level stuff either, my big gripe is the reward structure.
    Can promise you I’m far from an expert also
    I'm finding the strongest guys for Epic for me are Void, Iceman, and Hyperion. I always have at least two of those three, plus generally Archangel and Vision. You want immunities, you want heal block/reverse, you want power control. Hype and AA get the easy kills when the nodes allow for it, and Void and Iceman tend to get the hard kills on a lot of nasty node combinations.

    You have to play the labs as a metagame. The goal is to eliminate as many nasty nodes as being problems as possible with your team, so that if you do pull a combo you can't do the odds are as high as possible that a randomizer won't land on a combo your team can't do. You want an answer for Regeneration. You want an answer for Biohazard and Backblast. If I had a Namor I would be bringing him to eliminate nodes like Spiked Armor as being a threat, but instead I use AA against that node if the defender is not immune to bleed and poison.

    You play against the nodes, not the defenders. And to do that you have to be able to beat any defender with any attacker in general, so that you can concentrate on countering the nodes. If you need one special attacker to beat one hard defender, that's already going to make life much more difficult in something like the labs. Even I can't really do that perfectly, so I have to work around the few match ups that are problematic for me carefully.

    There is some luck to the nodes and the randomizers, but that doesn't mean a player that thinks strategically won't do much better than a player that doesn't. You can leave everything to chance, or you can try to shift the odds into your favor with the right team combinations.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 983 ★★★
    edited August 15
    I was fighting loki in icarus and let him steal my furies, but when they expired on him, I still got degen. Is it working as intended?
  • KonsoleKaiserKonsoleKaiser Posts: 3
    Does Kabam even realize how bad this content is? Have they said anything? They obviously don’t play test anything in this game. I wish I was shocked at the level of ineptitude that this bit of content shows in their overall game design but this is “working as intended” for Kabam.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 4,690 ★★★★★
    Man I just ran epic for the 1st time in a few days. B teams with war and AQ up and didn't have any trouble finishing but it just takes too long for the payout. Labs have been among my favorite side quests. It's just not worth it this time around.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,698 ★★★★★
    The boosts are a big miss in this content ... I used the immunity one and it hardly made any difference ... so far I have just ignored them
  • noynoy Posts: 28

    Man I just ran epic for the 1st time in a few days. B teams with war and AQ up and didn't have any trouble finishing but it just takes too long for the payout. Labs have been among my favorite side quests. It's just not worth it this time around.

    This. It takes almost an hour of straight grinding to finish master and epic. I like engaging and challenging content but when I see the rewards for the effort, thought, and time that I put into this, I just want to cry.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,698 ★★★★★
    The randomisers should be a luxury and not a necessity. The code should make sure that it doesn't give combinations like Life transfer and heal reversal. I just had that in Master.

    Also, the particle protector is a broken import from v2. You should have also brought the node effect which gave immunity to XL champs etc. with it. Otherwise, it is straight up impossible with certain other combinations and champs, or at the very least will eat a couple of your champs without any counter (except a full sig Namor probably).

  • Spurgeo14Spurgeo14 Posts: 1,133 ★★★
    noy said:

    Man I just ran epic for the 1st time in a few days. B teams with war and AQ up and didn't have any trouble finishing but it just takes too long for the payout. Labs have been among my favorite side quests. It's just not worth it this time around.

    This. It takes almost an hour of straight grinding to finish master and epic. I like engaging and challenging content but when I see the rewards for the effort, thought, and time that I put into this, I just want to cry.
    If they doubled the rewards that would be pretty good! It's just a lot of fights...24 just doing those 2 levels. Master's is pretty easy, and I've completed Epic each time but they do take longer to complete for sure.
  • allinashesallinashes Posts: 335
    Spurgeo14 said:

    noy said:

    Man I just ran epic for the 1st time in a few days. B teams with war and AQ up and didn't have any trouble finishing but it just takes too long for the payout. Labs have been among my favorite side quests. It's just not worth it this time around.

    This. It takes almost an hour of straight grinding to finish master and epic. I like engaging and challenging content but when I see the rewards for the effort, thought, and time that I put into this, I just want to cry.
    If they doubled the rewards that would be pretty good! It's just a lot of fights...24 just doing those 2 levels. Master's is pretty easy, and I've completed Epic each time but they do take longer to complete for sure.
    Takes too damn long. Don't mind the difficulty. Ran it with my second stringers yesterday, but it's too much time commitment every single day, but because the rewards are only good cumulatively, you feel pressured to hit epic+master every day.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,922 Guardian
    Haji_Saab said:

    The randomisers should be a luxury and not a necessity.

    I'm not sure why this should be true. I see them as neither: they are a valuable weapon, no different than Hyperion is a valuable weapon.

    And I mean that literally; the more I play the labs, the more I see that it is the combination of the champions you bring and the randomizer effect that is what matters. If the randomizers didn't exist you would need to bring a team that could best deal with every possible buff combination. However, with the randomizers that's not the best team to bring in my opinion. The best teams I'm finding are ones that trade covering every base with covering enough bases with more strength to maximize your chances of getting through the content.

    To oversimplify: suppose you could only bring one champ, and it is possible to pull nodes that have bleed effects and nodes that have poison effects. Without randomizers you can't bring Hyperion: he has a good chance of just bleeding to death. But with randomizers, he is a valid choice because you can reroll bleed and keep poison, and he might be a much stronger choice than your champs that are both bleed and poison immune. Rather than covering both bases with a lower damage champ, you cover one base with a higher damage champ and use the randomizer to eliminate bad nodes.

    The labs are a much more complex version of that, for players willing to think in those strategic ways. The randomizers are a weapon, and for that matter the entry tickets are a weapon. I have four tries to get two completions, and sometimes a path is clearly going to eat up too many randomizers and I just give it a try and if I fail I exit.

    Actually, now that I think about it I wonder how many players even scout ahead. On your first entry you have a choice of going left or right. I wonder how many players look at the champions and the nodes for each champion to see if one path is easier than the other. That's almost a freebee for the first run.
  • RO53TT1RO53TT1 Posts: 149
    How come there really nothing "random" about the randomized buffs in the labs. I went into a lab today on master, so there's usually only 2 buffs u gotta deal with, particle protector was 1 of the "RANDOM" buffs so I respun and respun and ended up using all 8 randomizer on the first fight and particle protector came up EVERYONE, not the first time this has happened. I get the RNG, which u can ask any mathematician out there, there's no such thing as random number generator, there's always a pattern, but that buff coming up 8 times in a row is like 8 coming up on a roulette table 8 times in a row, doesn't happen.
  • te_dua_shumte_dua_shum Posts: 135
    RO53TT1 said:

    How come there really nothing "random" about the randomized buffs in the labs. I went into a lab today on master, so there's usually only 2 buffs u gotta deal with, particle protector was 1 of the "RANDOM" buffs so I respun and respun and ended up using all 8 randomizer on the first fight and particle protector came up EVERYONE, not the first time this has happened. I get the RNG, which u can ask any mathematician out there, there's no such thing as random number generator, there's always a pattern, but that buff coming up 8 times in a row is like 8 coming up on a roulette table 8 times in a row, doesn't happen.

    are you sure that you always had only 2 buffs, and that Particle Protector wasn't showing as a third buff? because there's a visual bug in labs that show you a buff even if you have re-rolled it (so you see three buffs instead of two) and you have to leave the pre-fight screen and tap on the champion again to take it out...
  • RO53TT1RO53TT1 Posts: 149

    RO53TT1 said:

    How come there really nothing "random" about the randomized buffs in the labs. I went into a lab today on master, so there's usually only 2 buffs u gotta deal with, particle protector was 1 of the "RANDOM" buffs so I respun and respun and ended up using all 8 randomizer on the first fight and particle protector came up EVERYONE, not the first time this has happened. I get the RNG, which u can ask any mathematician out there, there's no such thing as random number generator, there's always a pattern, but that buff coming up 8 times in a row is like 8 coming up on a roulette table 8 times in a row, doesn't happen.

    are you sure that you always had only 2 buffs, and that Particle Protector wasn't showing as a third buff? because there's a visual bug in labs that show you a buff even if you have re-rolled it (so you see three buffs instead of two) and you have to leave the pre-fight screen and tap on the champion again to take it out...
    Yeah I'm positive, I've seen what ur talking about and it stayed at only 2 buffs all 8 spins, well 2 buffs not counting the global buffs on each node. Also this was the first time particle protection showed up 8 times in a row, but on several other occasions I've spun 2, 3, 4 times and particle protector came up a few times in a row
  • RO53TT1RO53TT1 Posts: 149
    Man I’m so glad this already a topic & I’m not the only 1 it’s happening to. Its happened to me 4 times now on master difficulty, 2 days ago I spun it 8 times and got particle protector every time. It just happened again, spun it 7 times, got it all 7 times, after first 2 spins today I started taking screen shots of the last 5 spins, wanted to record it but my iPad didn’t want me to. I can post screen shots if needed, but looks like there’s plenty of evidence already. So this has got to be a bug/glitch of some kind right, it’s def not random, but I’m burning thru my randomizes, can we get someone to look into this, I don’t think it’s happening on 1 spacific path or node, I’ve only ran master so far.
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