Upcoming Annihilus and Human Torch Balance Changes

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Comments

  • JohnHSJohnHS Posts: 173
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Masacre isn't hard at all. You've just got to be aggressive.
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    JohnHS said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Masacre isn't hard at all. You've just got to be aggressive.
    Which against lots of endgame nodes can be pretty hard to do
  • SantaGulkSantaGulk Posts: 55
    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    I might be not the best Ronin player but I have him at 5/65 and use him times in both AW and AQ map 7... His overall damage is not too bad but you have to stick to sp3. His sp2 which consumes all cruelty but only adds little bleed damage. His wraith stance which reduce 40% DAA is not reliable at all. His overall bleed damage is low which makes him not a good option for "Do you bleed?". So, please correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 said:

    I mean, this could be a very good thing but am I the only one worried that this might turn into a “milk the whales and after we make a fortune on new champs, nerf them into the ground?” I don’t know what compensation you would give someone if that were to happen. If they shell out $1,000 for a champ just for the champ to be nerfed 3 months later what is reasonable compensation?

    Ye I think they’ve wowed people by saying they are buffing torch and annilhus but I get the feeling namor cull etc are gonna be “balanced” when their time comes after everyone has spent
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,416 ★★★★★
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Ronin is very good and requires very little effort to setup. As far as attackers go, he’s very well designed IMO. Also his sig gives him a defensive option if he ever needed to exercise it. I wish there was a way for him to achieve 100% defensive ability accuracy reduction but other than that he’s very solid.
  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 228 ★★
    edited August 7
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 203 ★★
    I don't think any new champ that came out this year is too powerful. Namor takes way too long to ramp and he has a long special 3 animation so he's pretty balanced, and cull obsidian has horrible block proficiency so he is not sustainable very long (and no utility). I don't see too many nerfs in the near future, I'm just glad they want to eliminate arena fodder in champs. It's really demoralizing to get a champ that is basically useless and it is bad for business which is Kabam's real concern lol.
  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 228 ★★
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Both the champs you have mentioned have great damage output but you need agressive playstyles to keep them up.
  • Milan1405Milan1405 Posts: 174
    So, first I wanted to say thanks to the kabam team for taking another look at human torch, and balancing him to make him slightly more consistent and stronger overall. However, I believe that there are champions that are in need of a buff far more than HT, such as rhino, OG cap, Joe fixit, abomination, miles morales, OG spidey, sentry, antman - just to name the main ones in the science class alone. I like the idea of more consistent balance changes, and was wondering if you could balance champs slightly every month or something, like adding small perks to bad champs, like giving miles morales a damage buff, or fury etc. I think that the state of an ideal champion should be somewhat like archangel, who is insanely good for certain matchups, but does not faceroll almost everything, so I see him as balanced. Also magik is a champ that was fantastically reworked years ago, so that she is absolutely insane, but only in the hands of a skilled player. Champs which require a combo to be built, such as starlord, aegon proxima etc... are also balanced in my opinion, as the champion is only as good as you, the player, is.
  • SantaGulkSantaGulk Posts: 55
    edited August 7
    V1PER1987 said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Ronin is very good and requires very little effort to setup. As far as attackers go, he’s very well designed IMO. Also his sig gives him a defensive option if he ever needed to exercise it. I wish there was a way for him to achieve 100% defensive ability accuracy reduction but other than that he’s very solid.
    100% DAA or at least constantly 80%, stronger sp2 or overall stronger bleed
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike sorry for tagging you but I just really need to know this will champs be nerfed potentially after being released for 3 months
  • WHOz_R4GEWHOz_R4GE Posts: 122
    My biggest concern is the fact that in the announcement they state that they may make small changes down. People spend money for cavaliers and then use valuable resources to rank up champions based on how they are released. This will amount to bait and switch. You sell us a product, that is the product we should have. I’m very curious how balances downward occur in the future.
  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 228 ★★
    edited August 7
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
  • SantaGulkSantaGulk Posts: 55
    I'm also curious how you measure whether a champion is under-performing?
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,871 ★★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze
    If you think that your naive im sorry but cull gets wrecked by so many of the fights that just make him useless
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,602 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
  • edited August 7
    FactorQ said:

    Great news! any details on the buffs yet or do we need to wait until their release to find out?

    Also, if you ever need to tune a champ down, how will this affect players who already ranked them up based on their original abilities? will they be given the chance to reallocate their rankup resources?

    If a Champion is going to be tuned down, we'll look at that on a case by case basis. But I do want to emphasize again, the goal here is to be very light touch in any of these balance changes. These are not major reworks that change the utility or abilities of Champions.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,374 ★★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Balance doesn't mean every Champ hits as hard as the next.
  • Milan1405 said:

    So, first I wanted to say thanks to the kabam team for taking another look at human torch, and balancing him to make him slightly more consistent and stronger overall. However, I believe that there are champions that are in need of a buff far more than HT, such as rhino, OG cap, Joe fixit, abomination, miles morales, OG spidey, sentry, antman - just to name the main ones in the science class alone. I like the idea of more consistent balance changes, and was wondering if you could balance champs slightly every month or something, like adding small perks to bad champs, like giving miles morales a damage buff, or fury etc. I think that the state of an ideal champion should be somewhat like archangel, who is insanely good for certain matchups, but does not faceroll almost everything, so I see him as balanced. Also magik is a champ that was fantastically reworked years ago, so that she is absolutely insane, but only in the hands of a skilled player. Champs which require a combo to be built, such as starlord, aegon proxima etc... are also balanced in my opinion, as the champion is only as good as you, the player, is.

    This new Balance Update cadence is in addition to the Reworks that we're already doing, and could lead to us being able to hit up more of those older Champions in the future as well!

    This does not mean that Champions released before Annihilus will not be revisited in the future!
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,416 ★★★★★
    SantaGulk said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Ronin is very good and requires very little effort to setup. As far as attackers go, he’s very well designed IMO. Also his sig gives him a defensive option if he ever needed to exercise it. I wish there was a way for him to achieve 100% defensive ability accuracy reduction but other than that he’s very solid.
    100% DAA or at least constantly 80%, stronger sp2 or overall stronger bleed
    I’m not going to protest a buff for Ronin. If they want to make my favorite champ better I’m all for it. I just simply think he’s underrated and people don’t really take the time to use him and see his potential.
  • DJSergyDJSergy Posts: 157 ★★
    Can we get clarification on the timeframe for new champion changes?

    The way the announcement reads to me is 3 months for data collection, then notify players of changes, then 3 months of testing before changes go live? Is it 6 months total from the champion release?

    @Kabam Miike
  • WATCHEDWATCHED Posts: 80
    Can we get a description of the suit Annihilus is wearing also, just curious if he should have the #metal classification. Champs like Angela holds #metal but doesnt have a full body armor like Annihilus.
  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 228 ★★

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
  • SantaGulkSantaGulk Posts: 55
    V1PER1987 said:

    SantaGulk said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    SantaGulk said:

    Great. Ronin as a pure attacker is far from ideal either. Please consider balance him as well.

    You don't know how to play ronin if you think that
    He kinda isn’t ideal same as massacre very hard playstyle except not a great payoff
    Ronin is very good and requires very little effort to setup. As far as attackers go, he’s very well designed IMO. Also his sig gives him a defensive option if he ever needed to exercise it. I wish there was a way for him to achieve 100% defensive ability accuracy reduction but other than that he’s very solid.
    100% DAA or at least constantly 80%, stronger sp2 or overall stronger bleed
    I’m not going to protest a buff for Ronin. If they want to make my favorite champ better I’m all for it. I just simply think he’s underrated and people don’t really take the time to use him and see his potential.
    Without proper enhancement, I don't think he is underrated. Don't get me wrong since I like him too.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 1,594 ★★★★

    FactorQ said:

    Great news! any details on the buffs yet or do we need to wait until their release to find out?

    Also, if you ever need to tune a champ down, how will this affect players who already ranked them up based on their original abilities? will they be given the chance to reallocate their rankup resources?

    If a Champion is going to be tuned down, we'll look at that on a case by case basis. But I do want to emphasize again, the goal here is to be very light touch in any of these balance changes. These are not major reworks that change the utility or abilities of Champions.
    Are there any champs currently being looked at to be tuned down? Kind of like the list of champs we voted on for the upcoming buffs you guys had a target list to upgrade, does the same exist for the opposite? As we all know even minor tweaks in either direction can have a sizable impact and it would be nice to know in advance if theres any champs we should refrain from ranking in the near future. For example I pulled a 6* corvus recently, should I expect him to be adjusted soon and no longer function as he does now?
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