Upcoming Annihilus and Human Torch Balance Changes

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Comments

  • BrainimpacterBrainimpacter Posts: 566 ★★★
    I think its time to tune Thor and Dr strange back up to somewhere close to their pre-update 12 state, as we now have champs way better than they ever were.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 324 ★★

    DJSergy said:

    Can we get clarification on the timeframe for new champion changes?

    The way the announcement reads to me is 3 months for data collection, then notify players of changes, then 3 months of testing before changes go live? Is it 6 months total from the champion release?

    @Kabam Miike

    That's the timeline we're aiming for. About 3 months after their release, we'll know if they need any Balance Changes. We won't necessarily know what those changes are at the time, but hope to have a general idea of where we see the issue.

    3 Months after that, we'll release their update. So the goal is always 6 months after release. Keep in mind that if no Balance Update is required, we won't be making an announcement.
    Can you guys look at Diablo and ebony maw? Mystic class is in dire need of a freshen up and those 2 champions completely missed the mark!
  • ESFESF Posts: 834 ★★★

    Markg25 said:



    Let’s goooooo !

    Long overdue mags buff 👍🏼

    I know there's a lot of love for Magneto here, but I want to point out that these kind of rebalances are not meant to target a Champion like Magneto.

    If he needs an update, he's going to need something more like Old Man Logan or Colossus. Tuning changes are not what we believe that he needs.
    Tuning changes are what Mordo needs. He's got a great kit, but everything other than his heavy power gain is tuned down way too much.
    I would argue that a large chunk of the characters that frustrate me the most simply need tuning changes that reflect the state of the game.

    I am not a coder, and I might not use the correct terminology, but there was a decent period of time in this game when the highest rarity was 3-stars, and my contention is that a huge chunk of the earliest characters -- the OGs all the way up to the release of Hyperion, where it felt like something changed -- were tuned to a 3-star standard of DPS.

    You can see that in their Specials, which scale so poorly that it has to be some kind of throttling in the code. I wrote about 1,000 words on a Rank 4/55 OG Iron Man I tested whose SP2 barely hits harder than a 3-star Cap IW's SP2 -- and you have to give the 5-star OG Iron Man synergies to even get that.

    You read that right.

    So, yeah. I totally agree with you. There are a chunk of characters in this game who will feel just fine with the playstyles and kits if their base stats are tuned to where the game is now

  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 219 ★★
    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
    Ok take a 5:65 cull against all or nothing backblast Hyperion tell me how that goes
    1 fight. Okay... and the others?
  • ESFESF Posts: 834 ★★★


    Milan1405 said:

    So, first I wanted to say thanks to the kabam team for taking another look at human torch, and balancing him to make him slightly more consistent and stronger overall. However, I believe that there are champions that are in need of a buff far more than HT, such as rhino, OG cap, Joe fixit, abomination, miles morales, OG spidey, sentry, antman - just to name the main ones in the science class alone. I like the idea of more consistent balance changes, and was wondering if you could balance champs slightly every month or something, like adding small perks to bad champs, like giving miles morales a damage buff, or fury etc. I think that the state of an ideal champion should be somewhat like archangel, who is insanely good for certain matchups, but does not faceroll almost everything, so I see him as balanced. Also magik is a champ that was fantastically reworked years ago, so that she is absolutely insane, but only in the hands of a skilled player. Champs which require a combo to be built, such as starlord, aegon proxima etc... are also balanced in my opinion, as the champion is only as good as you, the player, is.

    This new Balance Update cadence is in addition to the Reworks that we're already doing, and could lead to us being able to hit up more of those older Champions in the future as well!

    This does not mean that Champions released before Annihilus will not be revisited in the future!
    It would be awesome if you added 2-4 Gamora like buffs every month to 2015-2016 champs.
    Yep, yep. Gamora was obviously really extensive, and I understand that they probably aren't gonna get that deep into it, but I would argue pretty strongly that you can use Annihilus and Human Torch in content where you wouldn't dream of taking OG Iron Man and OG Captain America
  • IDogeIDoge Posts: 219 ★★

    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
    Definitely not the case. His whole playstyle is basically parry, heavy, repeat. He's far from complicated to use.
    No wonder you're taking so much block damage lol
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,863 ★★★★★
    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
    Definitely not the case. His whole playstyle is basically parry, heavy, repeat. He's far from complicated to use.
    No wonder you're taking so much block damage lol
    Are you a troll like seriously culls damage comes from him using his parry heavies
    He’s got insane damage but lacks any immunity and has probably one of the worst block profiencies
    In terms of 6:2 about 50% of the fights are impossible for him including all the bosses
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,577 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
    Definitely not the case. His whole playstyle is basically parry, heavy, repeat. He's far from complicated to use.
    No wonder you're taking so much block damage lol
    Unless you can counter a special with a heavy then you don't exactly have a lot of other options to stack the 9+ armor breaks you're gonna need for those health pools
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,577 ★★★★
    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    IDoge said:

    Kobster84 said:

    What I don’t like is how they said they may alter a champ up or down
    I’m assuming this could mean a nerf which if you do this before they are released into the basic means you are pretty much changing it after people have spent

    That is true but let's be honest champs like namor and cull do too much damage. Best to stay balanced
    They have their pros and cons like any champ
    Pros or cons regardless their damage output is over the top. No more champs like these and the upcoming sunspot. There has to be some sort of balance in the game
    Try cull obsidian in 6:2 he’s pretty much useless damage output isn’t everything otherwise starlord and proxima would be the best champs in the game
    Cull can handle 6.2 if you are patient the first fight. After than it can be a breeze. I'm just saying too much damage can imbalance the roster
    You've definitely never used him in 6.2. Sure there are some paths he can cover if you're willing to keep him topped up with potions. For like at least 80% of it though, he isn't gonna do squat for you
    Maybe you're just not good with said champ? That can always be a possibility
    Ok take a 5:65 cull against all or nothing backblast Hyperion tell me how that goes
    1 fight. Okay... and the others?
    Take him against any of the DoT nodes, the nodes where you bleed through blocks, biohazard, freezer burn, against a thing, against a stun immune path, debuff immune, caustic temper, etc.....
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,577 ★★★★
    That's just some of the stuff off the top of my head. I'm not going to start looking through the chapter for specifics
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,863 ★★★★★

    That's just some of the stuff off the top of my head. I'm not going to start looking through the chapter for specifics

    I went through 6.2,1 and there’s so many fights he couldn’t do effectively such as oscillate paths stun immune paths buffet path the vigor path has a juggernaut and domino I doubt he could do aspect of war path I doubt it
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 618 ★★★
    Siliyo said:

    Great news, but this is a joke. I think a lot of people can agree that the older champions need more balance tuning than Annihulus and Human Torch. Why are you giving them specific favor for balance instead of others?

    I agree. They’re reworking champs they JUST released that are still decent and desirable when at least half of the champions from the first 2 years of the game are bench material. Smh.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 1,577 ★★★★
    MSRDLD said:

    Siliyo said:

    Great news, but this is a joke. I think a lot of people can agree that the older champions need more balance tuning than Annihulus and Human Torch. Why are you giving them specific favor for balance instead of others?

    I agree. They’re reworking champs they JUST released that are still decent and desirable when at least half of the champions from the first 2 years of the game are bench material. Smh.
    For one, they're doing both. Two, the newer champs are getting basic stat adjustments as opposed to full reworks like the older champs. Those are far easier and faster.
  • TripleBTripleB Posts: 20
    I’m so happy about this! A lot of champs have needed big buffs but there also a lot that fall just a bit short, finally some help for them! I’m hoping someone like Phoenix gets their tweak
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 481 ★★
    So there's one small problem with this whole thing that I can think of.
    If someone came back to the game, and say they got Human Torch first day back. But they'd come back after the in-game mail that said he was going to get balanced had come and expired, but the balancing hadn't happened yet. They invest into the champion, and then a couple of months later, his numbers get changed, and these players get a little bit cynical.
    How do I think this could be mitigated?
    I think that having a small indicator next to the champion (say next to the Pl in the champ info screen and between the rank up materials and rank up button for that champ) showing 'hey, this champ is going to be having its numbers changed soon; keep this in your mind when ranking them up'. Just something that's noticeable next to the character that tells people that hey this champ is going to be a tiny bit different in a couple of months if they didn't get notified of it.
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 410

    Markg25 said:



    Let’s goooooo !

    Long overdue mags buff 👍🏼

    I know there's a lot of love for Magneto here, but I want to point out that these kind of rebalances are not meant to target a Champion like Magneto.

    If he needs an update, he's going to need something more like Old Man Logan or Colossus. Tuning changes are not what we believe that he needs.
    How about Diablo?
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 481 ★★
    Reference said:

    Markg25 said:



    Let’s goooooo !

    Long overdue mags buff 👍🏼

    I know there's a lot of love for Magneto here, but I want to point out that these kind of rebalances are not meant to target a Champion like Magneto.

    If he needs an update, he's going to need something more like Old Man Logan or Colossus. Tuning changes are not what we believe that he needs.
    How about Diablo?
    probably the same thing. I think he'd be a potential option for a rework when they get to some Mystic champions, but don't forget that there are a lot of other champs there that 'need' a rework. Iron Fist x2, Doc Strange, Ebony Maw, and I have a feeling that there are a few others that need looking at too...
  • Ya_Boi_28Ya_Boi_28 Posts: 148
    I don't even have Human Torch and I only have Annihilus as a 3 star, so I couldn't tell you if they needed tweaking. I guess this tweaking thing is good for newer champs while older champs like colossus get full buffs. But if someone gets nerfed, there's going to be an uproar...
  • Batman_6809Batman_6809 Posts: 5
    I’m truly glad that y’all are doing this Kabam. Although I am content with 99% of the champions and where they are in the game. My only request is that 1% that being black bolt, maybe a slight buff? Make his fury/cruelty buff cap higher when using the Medusa synergy? Even if it does get to 100 he wouldn’t be game breaking since almost every fight would be over before that point or there would be a damage cap. But at least give his sig ability a better description. It doesn’t say anything about the actual chance of him gaining a buff. It just says there is a chance. Thank you
  • FlyingPigsFlyingPigs Posts: 23
    Hmmm i don't know.

    Will have to see how this pan out over time but this announcement will definitely have an impact for new champs. I regularly spend on crystals in the hope of drawing a new champ through FGMC. When a new champ with good potential comes out, the amount spent can reach a fairly significant number (although half the time I still don't get it).

    I'm not sure if I can still justify spending real money on trying for new champs if the lifecycle for using the champ is going to be restricted to 3-6 months before its "balanced down".
  • MauledMauled Posts: 123
    One potential issue with this is that while you can do the Human Torch/Annihilus tweaks simply enough - it'll probably take someone in the office 10 minutes to slap a 0 on the end of their damage (or whatever the tuning results in), and probably a few days of game testing to check that they aren't suddenly the burning love child of Domino, Aegon and Omega, so I'm going to put as a ballpark figure - 1-2 weeks of actual work for Human Torch (ignoring the time to actually fit it into the schedule).
    Whereas OML/Colossus are champions that are requiring significant reworks, with hours in the design, recoding, in-house testing, beta and finally general release. What I see happening is that until you @Kabam Miike 'catch up' for want of a better word, you're actually going to increase the gap between the rework list and the new, making them even more useless by default.

    That said, I do very much approve of this new direction into balance.
  • Markg25Markg25 Posts: 398 ★★★

    Hmmm i don't know.

    Will have to see how this pan out over time but this announcement will definitely have an impact for new champs. I regularly spend on crystals in the hope of drawing a new champ through FGMC. When a new champ with good potential comes out, the amount spent can reach a fairly significant number (although half the time I still don't get it).

    I'm not sure if I can still justify spending real money on trying for new champs if the lifecycle for using the champ is going to be restricted to 3-6 months before its "balanced down".

    100%

    I honestly can’t justify aiming for new champs when in a few months they could be “Adjusted” to keep balance.

    I’m keeping the sigil ( for
    Now ) but won’t be spending on any form crystal or featured package.

    It’s honestly not worth the risk, less then 1% chance at the featured champ then 50/50 chance if they are going to get nerfed or not 🤔

    @Kabam Miike you need to test the champs fully at your end and make adjustments before you release them.

    You can’t ask us to test them for you and pay for the privilege.


  • AleorAleor Posts: 983 ★★★
    I only hope they will buff older champs more frequently
  • te_dua_shumte_dua_shum Posts: 135
    Good, this means that i won't spend a cent to get new champs until the team will adjust them definitively, because i honestly don't want to spend units/time/money for a work-in-progress champ that has a probability to be changed, both in a better or worse version.
  • MEKA5MEKA5 Posts: 316 ★★

    So will it be like a Sentry-esque buff?

    Something similar, yes. No 2 Champions will ever have the same solution, but that's the kind of changes we're looking at.
    I was slightly excited, now I don't know what to expect: Sentry's buff was a fail!
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