Alright. Let's do this to keep it simple. I'm not going to claim that kabam is intentionally aware of it or is intentionally making it happen. That can't be proven unless through confession. And i doubt any programmer would ever confess to something like that happening. So instead i will simply say that it is happening. There are a number of people experiencing it and coming forward but being ignored. So I'm only going to address those who experience it. I implore you to try and post screen shots or post videos of this happening. If you can it would be greatly appreciated. If you can't... thank you for trying. Not really going to address those that call it conspiracy since that neither adds or takes away from the issue. I instead will ask that they ignore this post since their minds are already made up. I figure that's fair.
prove it is happening, SSs will not prove it , you need videos with health totals and an addition of all the damage taken and all the heals done.
No, I shall not. When most people on the forums refer to something as a "conspiracy theory" they are referring to the current, colloquial definition. Moreover, "conspiracy theories" are disallowed on the forums and have been removed by moderators: the moderators appear to be using the same basic colloquial definition as most everyone else uses today.
So while you can choose which definition you want to honor, that would only be meaningful in an academic argument. In an argument over what passes for acceptable discourse on the forums, the current colloquial definition is the operative one.
Also, @Lormif is correct: I quoted your post because I was replying to you, and specifically to your statement that the potential problem being asserted in the thread was not a conspiracy theory. However, the OP's own framing of the issue uses the same language as most conspiracy theories that float around the forums: there's the element of infalsifiability (if you don't see it you're wrong or lying), there's the implication that what's happening is deliberately by design in a way intended to mislead or confuse players while doing harm, there's the position that the burden of proof is on everyone else to disprove the assertion, and there's the backpedaling from asserting the problem is blatantly obvious to being extremely elusive to demonstrate in practice.
Post that tend to follow this pattern tend to get called out these days, and posts that push the agenda beyond a certain point tend to disappear into moderation. There are people who think the "safeguard thing" might be an actual thing, and they aren't necessarily promoting conspiracy theories. I investigated the issue myself and reported on the forums. It is the position that the reported issue exists and is obvious, and everyone else must therefore either be in on an exercise to discredit that report that makes it a conspiracy theory. That is, in fact, the conspiracy element in most conspiracy theories including this one: the notion that both the developer and all players who disagree must be deliberately working against them out of either malice or ignorance.
The colloquial use of "conspiracy theory" is a tool use to dismiss accusations without any sort of investigation into them, so I guess it makes sense that that would be official Kabam policy. The definition has not changed.
Also, while many conspiracy theories do have the characteristic of being unfalsifiable, there are many more that are falsifiable. In fact, many conspiracy theories have been proven to be true conspiracies. However, that usually must involve knowledge of the cause of the issue, which we do not have. We don't have specific information about ai programming and damage mechanics to determine if these instances are programmed in or just coincidences. And that still wouldn't tell us whether or not there is an actual conspiracy, if they are not coincidences they can still just be bugs. So it is definitely falsifiable, we just don't have access to the means of doing so.
No, I shall not. When most people on the forums refer to something as a "conspiracy theory" they are referring to the current, colloquial definition. Moreover, "conspiracy theories" are disallowed on the forums and have been removed by moderators: the moderators appear to be using the same basic colloquial definition as most everyone else uses today.
So while you can choose which definition you want to honor, that would only be meaningful in an academic argument. In an argument over what passes for acceptable discourse on the forums, the current colloquial definition is the operative one.
Also, @Lormif is correct: I quoted your post because I was replying to you, and specifically to your statement that the potential problem being asserted in the thread was not a conspiracy theory. However, the OP's own framing of the issue uses the same language as most conspiracy theories that float around the forums: there's the element of infalsifiability (if you don't see it you're wrong or lying), there's the implication that what's happening is deliberately by design in a way intended to mislead or confuse players while doing harm, there's the position that the burden of proof is on everyone else to disprove the assertion, and there's the backpedaling from asserting the problem is blatantly obvious to being extremely elusive to demonstrate in practice.
Post that tend to follow this pattern tend to get called out these days, and posts that push the agenda beyond a certain point tend to disappear into moderation. There are people who think the "safeguard thing" might be an actual thing, and they aren't necessarily promoting conspiracy theories. I investigated the issue myself and reported on the forums. It is the position that the reported issue exists and is obvious, and everyone else must therefore either be in on an exercise to discredit that report that makes it a conspiracy theory. That is, in fact, the conspiracy element in most conspiracy theories including this one: the notion that both the developer and all players who disagree must be deliberately working against them out of either malice or ignorance.
The colloquial use of "conspiracy theory" is a tool use to dismiss accusations without any sort of investigation into them, so I guess it makes sense that that would be official Kabam policy. The definition has not changed.
Also, while many conspiracy theories do have the characteristic of being unfalsifiable, there are many more that are falsifiable. In fact, many conspiracy theories have been proven to be true conspiracies. However, that usually must involve knowledge of the cause of the issue, which we do not have. We don't have specific information about ai programming and damage mechanics to determine if these instances are programmed in or just coincidences. And that still wouldn't tell us whether or not there is an actual conspiracy, if they are not coincidences they can still just be bugs. So it is definitely falsifiable, we just don't have access to the means of doing so.
And see because you replied to a comment t hat tagged me I got alerted. Now you are spouting an actual conspiracy yourself.
Also you can confirm this one as true or not, take a fight recorded where it stops at 1%, add up all the damage and subtract all the healing and see if it is greater than the health, if it is then there is a problem.
you were fighting what appears to be a mini boss, at class disadvantage. You killed her with 6824 damage from 6%, meaning they probably had around 110k hps, which is about right for a champing with that pi level
you were fighting what appears to be a mini boss, at class disadvantage. You killed her with 6824 damage from 6%, meaning they probably had around 110k hps, which is about right for a champing with that pi level
Thanks for insight. I'll be posting more.
Go ahead, it does not show anything without context, for example what does your sp2 do to a champ like that outside of that 6%
Honestly I'm a four year player going on five and I have seen the computer dexterity. It happened to me more recently and I haven't seen it in about 3 months so I think it was a specific update bug, specifically when the AI goes into super defensive mode, and it isn't all the time or a huge issue. Just my 2 cents.
Definitely not enough to have a forum bug issue post that needs to be updated immediately
Honestly I'm a four year player going on five and I have seen the computer dexterity. It happened to me more recently and I haven't seen it in about 3 months so I think it was a specific update bug, specifically when the AI goes into super defensive mode, and it isn't all the time or a huge issue. Just my 2 cents.
Definitely not enough to have a forum bug issue post that needs to be updated immediately
dont confuse shallow evade for dex, the computer can shallow evade.
And see because you replied to a comment t hat tagged me I got alerted. Now you are spouting an actual conspiracy yourself.
Also you can confirm this one as true or not, take a fight recorded where it stops at 1%, add up all the damage and subtract all the healing and see if it is greater than the health, if it is then there is a problem.
How is it a conspiracy if it's official Kabam policy? 1. It's not a secret 2. It's their forums, they're justified in having that as a rule.
I would but I'm honestly not that worried about it. I'm more worried about people dismissing legitimate concerns as "conspiracy theory," as if no one has even planned a harmful or illegal act in secret. Or worse, when people call something that's not a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory.
I'll start it. I just saw this from Seatin channel. 48 stacks of prowess. Bishop vs Karnak. Should have been a 1 shot kill... but no.
I don't know how you can know this should have been a one shot kill. The amount of damage displayed - 71264 - doesn't seem wildly inconsistent with the damage dealt elsewhere. Incidentally, 72315 - 71264 = 1051 health remaining. That is 1051/72315 ~ 0.0145, or 1.45%. But the game screen shows 2%. As I said, the game rounds that number, and it isn't obvious just how much health is or is not left when you get down to the last few percent.
And see because you replied to a comment t hat tagged me I got alerted. Now you are spouting an actual conspiracy yourself.
Also you can confirm this one as true or not, take a fight recorded where it stops at 1%, add up all the damage and subtract all the healing and see if it is greater than the health, if it is then there is a problem.
How is it a conspiracy if it's official Kabam policy? 1. It's not a secret 2. It's their forums, they're justified in having that as a rule.
I would but I'm honestly not that worried about it. I'm more worried about people dismissing legitimate concerns as "conspiracy theory," as if no one has even planned a harmful or illegal act in secret. Or worse, when people call something that's not a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory.
Where is their official policy to dismiss accusations without any sort of of investigation into them rule stated?
For someone who accused others of needing a course of formal logic, you seem to need it yourself. No one accused that of being YOUR position, but that of others, including the OP. In fact yours was not even one of the one DNA quoted to support that this is a conspiracy theory. They quoted actual examples in this thread of them accusing kabam of doing this on purpose and calling them out for it, which fits the definition of a conspiracy theory. It seems you came into this thread just to call us out for supposedly not understanding something, and instead stuck your foot in your mouth. It happens, but instead of taking it on the chin and moving on you are doubling down with this strawman. Understand I have training in formal logic, a lot of it, and understanding truth tables, as well as other fundamental functions of both formal and mathematical logic is part of my job.
Nope, read @DNA3000 's last comment again. He quoted my comment as his first example of conspiracy theory statement, and the other user he quoted only suggested the possibility of a conspiracy by kabam, that wasn't the basis of his argument. Idk why you felt the need to appeal to your own authority to try and validate your incorrect statement.
And you stick it in your mouth again, no they did not quote you as the first example of a conspiracy theory, they quoted you to make sure that you know they were talking to you, just as I am quoting you here to let you know I am talking to you, because posts get disjoined and people dont know who you are talking about. The NEXT TWO entries they quoted were to let you know what he was talking about. After all that was your first post in this thread and had nothing in it to talk about what was going on, just to accuse others of doing something..
Also you are proving your logic is not very well. An appeal to authority is one in when you reference someone or some thing as an authority of something so therefore they have to be correct about it. Such as claiming a lawyer has to be correct about the law because he is a lawyer, ignoring that they are fallible. In this cause I used my education to counter your comment about some of us needing classes in logic. You do not get to set up something, then when they list that they have what you claim they may need you accuse them of using an appeal to authority.
Where is their official policy to dismiss accusations without any sort of of investigation into them rule stated?
Accusations of conspiracy*
Idk, ask DNA.
I made no such statement. I said they do not allow discussions of conspiracy theories on the forums, and you decided it was okay to redefine what I meant. I define conspiracy theory as I defined it earlier, and in general I have not seen Kabam censor discussions of problems or issues in the game, or player investigations into same. What they censor are the meta discussions of motive or rationale, accusations of deliberate causation, or baseless assertions of general malfeasance which are common to most conspiracy theories about the game.
it's true though... AI at the beginning( I started playing 3 years ago) won't evade your dashes or parry your intercept. but now it happens quite often during the game. not trying to prove the conspiracy theory or anything am just putting it out there as a matter of fact...
Thank you for your input. Don't be hesitant to speak up about it. Doesn't make it conspiracy theory simply because someone says so.
It also doesn't make it true, just because someone says so.. I've been playing this game since 2015, I've never noticed this 1% bug myself. People always claim kabam simply sweeps it under the rug but these same people never provide video evidence and instantly lash out at someone who doesn't agree with them.
The AI has frequently changed over the years, and this is a good thing. Can you imagine if the AI in act 5/6, Variant, etc was the same as we fought in Act 2? The game would get stale and boring. As newer champions and content comes out, the AI changes. That's the way its always been. And for the record, the AI has always been able to evade without dex, just like the player can. Whether they do this more frequently now than in the past, that I can't say. But they've always been able to do it. Some champs also recover from heavies and certain specials much faster than others (my best is example is spider Gwen, who recovers absurdly early from her heavy).
Adapting is part of the game man. The AI has always done and we have to do it too.
I had this happen against me today, very first fight in fact in war. Mordo. Did a combo, phased and sp2 straight away. He dexed the first part and my special didn’t connect at all.
I do see dex in war. The ai is definitely different in that format. Not only on specials, but on general play too
Why is this complaint important? If there really is a 1-3% safeguard and you're (supposedly) doing more than 1% damage, then you should only need 3 more hit to finish them off. That's not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Really shouldn't be that big of a deal, right?
I had this happen against me today, very first fight in fact in war. Mordo. Did a combo, phased and sp2 straight away. He dexed the first part and my special didn’t connect at all.
I do see dex in war. The ai is definitely different in that format. Not only on specials, but on general play too
war and arena are special, you can see dex in there if you dont parry because it uses the talents of the player.
Everyone is so hostile on this thread. I noticed it a lot last year with the whole AI ironically surviving with 1% health. I’m sure there’s some threads on it but I for one always assumed it was a bug. I mean how is it possible that a champ can survive a sp 3 and be left standing without it being GP, Punisher or any of the sort. As for the passive AI, they’ve become ultra stubborn in releasing an sp themselves. Same with the dex. Say what you want but I’m a firm believer of this “conspiracy”
Everyone is so hostile on this thread. I noticed it a lot last year with the whole AI ironically surviving with 1% health. I’m sure there’s some threads on it but I for one always assumed it was a bug. I mean how is it possible that a champ can survive a sp 3 and be left standing without it being GP, Punisher or any of the sort. As for the passive AI, they’ve become ultra stubborn in releasing an sp themselves. Same with the dex. Say what you want but I’m a firm believer of this “conspiracy”
because sp3s dont always do enough to kill champs, a lot of SP3s dont do killer damage like dominos, shoot corvus' does way less than his sp2.
This isn't even conspiracy. This is just bad player looking for excuses to be bad. I don't see why this thread is even still going lmao. There are zero issues with hp/damage/evades. Endgame content is hard, deal with it.
A few of these dudes I wouldn't even waste time, cause all they do is suck up to kabam.
I know what you mean bro, and definitely agree, over the 2 years I have been playing the AI has definitely changed. They evade way more than usual, and sometimes in the middle of a 5 hit combo. I've even had the AI activate a special in the middle of a combo, or even evade before my special attack was finished.
I know some of you would like videos and as much as i can appreciate that, i can't upload them to the forum. I'm sure though it would still be dismissed with just like the photos. So ehh. I'll keep them coming. Lol
It is extremely difficult to determine what's happening in screenshots, so they are problematic for verifying if anything unusual is happening. The forums don't allow directly posting videos, but the way everyone gets around that is to upload to Youtube and then post a link to that. It costs nothing, and almost everyone's phone can upload to Youtube these days.
It is hard to tell what's happening in the very early screenshots because it looks like those hits could have captured the health bar before or during changes. But the last three hits are for 3235, 2107, and 747, and they move the health bar from 11% to 5%, then from 5% to 1%, then to a KO. When the health bar moves from 11% to 5%, that can actually represent anything from 5.5% to 6.5% due to various round offs. So that implies 1% of health is anything between 498 and 588 points. And that means 2107 damage could be anything between 3.58% and 4.23% of total health. The entire range of possibilities is insufficient to generate a kill from 5% health. So the numbers in the screenshots actually suggest there's no 1% safeguard in effect in that sequence. That sequence is actually demonstrating proper behavior if there's no safeguard.
If you're just going to keep posting screenshots of champions at 1% health before dying without doing any analysis at all, I'm afraid I'm going to have to conclude you don't have any evidence of a problem you are just hung up on champions reaching 1% health for no reason at all except wild guessing.
I like this one. Even with a damage over time effect damage goes gimped at the end to keep 2% on.
I'm not even going to bother with calculations anymore. Just plain eyeballs can see that the hit at combo 41 landed for about 3560 and that dealt about 7% damage. The hit you think is so suspicious is doing 3197 and dealt 6% damage. And this is what you call "damage goes gimped." That is literally exactly what anyone who can do basic arithmetic should expect would happen. In fact, I'm rather curious to know how you think 3197 is supposed to deal 8% damage and kill Rags when 3560 dealt 7% damage just a couple seconds prior. That seems to defy the laws of arithmetic.
The shock, incidentally, can be seen ticking for 168 damage in two of the images. That's about half a percent of health every second (and I'm assuming two ticks per second here), which isn't enough to make a big difference in the timeframe the screenshots look like they encapsulate.
In fact my only retort to that would be, did he take suicides being on under consideration..? what about assassins being on as well?
Would that not make a huge difference in the math he applied.
Some one asked why is this a big deal? I'll answer by saying why is anything on this game a big deal? Why have a forum at all? Why pay money to play this game? Why bother asking if whether or not it is a big deal in the first place? Lol
Assassins or suicides don't change math. Nothing changes the math. They can increase the upper part of the range of possible damage which is still decided by RNG. But the math stays the same. Health - damage = remaining health.
Comments
Also, while many conspiracy theories do have the characteristic of being unfalsifiable, there are many more that are falsifiable. In fact, many conspiracy theories have been proven to be true conspiracies. However, that usually must involve knowledge of the cause of the issue, which we do not have. We don't have specific information about ai programming and damage mechanics to determine if these instances are programmed in or just coincidences. And that still wouldn't tell us whether or not there is an actual conspiracy, if they are not coincidences they can still just be bugs. So it is definitely falsifiable, we just don't have access to the means of doing so.
Also you can confirm this one as true or not, take a fight recorded where it stops at 1%, add up all the damage and subtract all the healing and see if it is greater than the health, if it is then there is a problem.
Definitely not enough to have a forum bug issue post that needs to be updated immediately
I would but I'm honestly not that worried about it. I'm more worried about people dismissing legitimate concerns as "conspiracy theory," as if no one has even planned a harmful or illegal act in secret. Or worse, when people call something that's not a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory.
Idk, ask DNA.
Also you are proving your logic is not very well. An appeal to authority is one in when you reference someone or some thing as an authority of something so therefore they have to be correct about it. Such as claiming a lawyer has to be correct about the law because he is a lawyer, ignoring that they are fallible. In this cause I used my education to counter your comment about some of us needing classes in logic. You do not get to set up something, then when they list that they have what you claim they may need you accuse them of using an appeal to authority.
The AI has frequently changed over the years, and this is a good thing. Can you imagine if the AI in act 5/6, Variant, etc was the same as we fought in Act 2? The game would get stale and boring. As newer champions and content comes out, the AI changes. That's the way its always been. And for the record, the AI has always been able to evade without dex, just like the player can. Whether they do this more frequently now than in the past, that I can't say. But they've always been able to do it. Some champs also recover from heavies and certain specials much faster than others (my best is example is spider Gwen, who recovers absurdly early from her heavy).
Adapting is part of the game man. The AI has always done and we have to do it too.
I do see dex in war. The ai is definitely different in that format. Not only on specials, but on general play too
Why is this complaint important? If there really is a 1-3% safeguard and you're (supposedly) doing more than 1% damage, then you should only need 3 more hit to finish them off. That's not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Really shouldn't be that big of a deal, right?
Am I wrong?
I noticed it a lot last year with the whole AI ironically surviving with 1% health. I’m sure there’s some threads on it but I for one always assumed it was a bug. I mean how is it possible that a champ can survive a sp 3 and be left standing without it being GP, Punisher or any of the sort. As for the passive AI, they’ve become ultra stubborn in releasing an sp themselves. Same with the dex. Say what you want but I’m a firm believer of this “conspiracy”
I know what you mean bro, and definitely agree, over the 2 years I have been playing the AI has definitely changed. They evade way more than usual, and sometimes in the middle of a 5 hit combo. I've even had the AI activate a special in the middle of a combo, or even evade before my special attack was finished.
It is hard to tell what's happening in the very early screenshots because it looks like those hits could have captured the health bar before or during changes. But the last three hits are for 3235, 2107, and 747, and they move the health bar from 11% to 5%, then from 5% to 1%, then to a KO. When the health bar moves from 11% to 5%, that can actually represent anything from 5.5% to 6.5% due to various round offs. So that implies 1% of health is anything between 498 and 588 points. And that means 2107 damage could be anything between 3.58% and 4.23% of total health. The entire range of possibilities is insufficient to generate a kill from 5% health. So the numbers in the screenshots actually suggest there's no 1% safeguard in effect in that sequence. That sequence is actually demonstrating proper behavior if there's no safeguard.
If you're just going to keep posting screenshots of champions at 1% health before dying without doing any analysis at all, I'm afraid I'm going to have to conclude you don't have any evidence of a problem you are just hung up on champions reaching 1% health for no reason at all except wild guessing.
The shock, incidentally, can be seen ticking for 168 damage in two of the images. That's about half a percent of health every second (and I'm assuming two ticks per second here), which isn't enough to make a big difference in the timeframe the screenshots look like they encapsulate.