Matchmaking Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    edited July 2020
    -sixate- said:

    I love how weak alliances were fine with a system that gave them war ratings higher than alliances they couldn't compete with if their lives depended on it. Now that you have to prove your war rating it's unfair!? Lol! I hate war with a passion, but this is actually a step in the right direction. You want top rewards, prove you're good enough or go to the properly placed tier.

    The system Matched people equally. Everyone earned their Rating by winning their own Matches. Not taking out weak Allies.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    Aleor said:

    Aleor said:

    ItsDamien said:

    @GroundedWisdom go back to the sports analogies. You brought up weight classes in boxing. Do you want lower groups to essentially only be allowed to play Heroic War with Heroic rewards? If that's the case, it makes sense to use prestige and have them only match other low groups. In this scenario, the best lower groups could climb to the top, and get the best Heroic rewards. They would not have the option of getting UC rewards or Master rewards no matter how many wars they win until they gain weight. Similarly, a welterweight boxer can be undefeated and hold the welterweight belt, but he can't compete for the Heavyweight belt. Our previous system allowed Heroic/Welterweight alliances who were the best in that group to win Uncollected/Heavyweight rewards by beating other lower groups. This forced other heavyweights to fight each other for Heroic rewards. The best Little League team in the world might never lose a single game ever to other Little League teams. That's awesome. They should get credit as the best in their level. They don't push higher level teams to lower levels as a result. If you don't want segregation and you want everyone to compete for the same rewards, that same best of the Heroic level war alliances will rise to the top of that level and beat some of the less skilled Master groups, but they will hit a wall and won't get to Uncollected until they get stronger.That's what's happening now. Every alliance will win or lose until they get to where they are getting fairly rewarded for the level they can attain. The truth is the very top was fine in either scenario because they can outspend everyone. This was never about them, contrary to your belief. Previously lower groups were getting rewards they didn't earn as they were getting Master and Uncollected rewards by beating the Heroic level. Now it's being fixed and you say it's unfair lol.

    Did I not just say that the Rewards could have been addressed? That was an option. So was easing the adjustment so that the Season wasn't filled with Matches like the ones we're seeing. Now all we have is a mess.
    Oh no. War is going to be a mess for one season while the system corrects itself to how it should have been from the start.

    What's that? War seasons have always been unfair and unbalanced?

    What's that? Alliances that have gained an advantage because they were only matching lower rated opponents to climb up through the ladders without ever having to face a legitimate ranked opponent?

    What's that? You're telling me that no damn game with a ranked ladder and an actual functioning MMR system would implement a broken flawed system where someone could play way about their station like the old system did?

    In one season, all alliances will be in their proper places and getting appropriate rewards for the amount of effort they put in. There is no way that some of these lower prestige, and lower overall combined hero rating alliances should be at the rank they achieved by fighting much easier opponents. That was a fundamentally flawed system.

    Oh no. Right. Tell me this. Did people not argue for weeks when one War was discounted? "End the Season! Do the right thing Kabam!". That argument was valid, but an entire Season that's going to be a mess for many, many people....oh, that's just for the betterment of everyone.
    Double standard, really.
    Bottom line is everyone's Season matters. Everyone's effort is worth something. Not just the Top.
    Exactly! Everybody’s season matters! Which is why we are now matched by war ratings instead of prestige. And those top teams that have been held down unfairly by smaller teams will rise in the rankings to reflect that they are better. No more free rides.
    No matter how you try to spin it, placing Alliances in Matches they have no possible way of winning is wrong. Doesn't matter how justified you think it is. It's just a Season of sadistically watching people fail.
    The things you need to not lose at least are very simple actually.
    1 - diversity maxed
    2 - explore every map without deaths
    That's it! All it takes basically is an attack team capable of finishing fights within time limit and skill to do that. And if your attack team has no chance of doing that, why should you get more rewards then your opponent? Wich they did for years. They did cut aw ratings to make those matches more fair probably, yet save some order to avoid more frustration of top alliances fighting lower alliances. They could've make the transition smoother, but it would've take much more time and probably be worse for those low pi alliances with high war rates. And now it's like some shock therapy. It will take only couple of weeks probably to sort most of alliances, and then most people will be back to almost equal number of wins and losses, and alliances will get rewards they should.
    The rating cut wasn't meant to make matches more fair nor did it. It was made to make the transition period between alliances with artificially high ratings getting to a base point shorter
    I was thinking about how it's better to half ratings rather then resetting every alliance rating to 0, with wich top alliance of prev season could've probably have some new alliance of beginners.
    Yes, surely half ratings should make the transition faster
    Cutting them in half did nothing to stop the situation we have, which is the whole basis for this Thread. Now we have people facing these needlessly overpowered Matches, and others are just throwing it in their faces. Great solution. Treat people like #### and tell them they have no basis to complain.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    At the very least, this shouldn't have been implemented this way. People are working for their Season, and that's true for the first Alliance up to Master 1. It should have been implemented in a way that didn't ruin the Season for everyone but the highest. If you have to undervalue one section of the Player Base to make the other happy, you end up with a situation that's no better.
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  • Thicco_ModeThicco_Mode Member Posts: 8,852 ★★★★★

    At the very least, this shouldn't have been implemented this way. People are working for their Season, and that's true for the first Alliance up to Master 1. It should have been implemented in a way that didn't ruin the Season for everyone but the highest. If you have to undervalue one section of the Player Base to make the other happy, you end up with a situation that's no better.

    even if one season was ruined, its better than keeping the old system, which I think we can all agree on. I respectfully ask you what you would have done if you were kabam so that smaller allies would not be boomed as war ratings were corrected. you may have said it but I didn't catch it.
    @GroundedWisdom
  • Zodiac_SignsZodiac_Signs Member Posts: 54
    Having read through all the for and against, I can only say I do see both sides of the coin. Removing rewards, GW actually has a point. Stripping down to basics, wars are fought between two evenly matched teams. It takes the same effort to secure a victory. So, I can see where he is coming from. He isn't against the objective but the implementation.

    That doesn't mean the use of war rating is wrong though. It is a long term gain and when the storm has settled, it will benefit everyone. At least we can genuinely say we are at where we belong.

    Give it this season. Play it competitively or play it leisurely. Just give it some time
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    edited July 2020
    ItsDamien said:

    -sixate- said:

    I love how weak alliances were fine with a system that gave them war ratings higher than alliances they couldn't compete with if their lives depended on it. Now that you have to prove your war rating it's unfair!? Lol! I hate war with a passion, but this is actually a step in the right direction. You want top rewards, prove you're good enough or go to the properly placed tier.

    The system Matched people equally. Everyone earned their Rating by winning their own Matches. Not taking out weak Allies.
    Equal in whose eyes? Equality isn't equal, it dragged people down to raise others up who wouldn't have been able to beat the teams that were dragged down, that's an inherently flawed system.

    Imagine Olympic Sprinter Usain Bolt won 11 gold medals, but lost one race, but the system said "Well little Timmy here has won all 12 gold medals in his school sports day events, so he's definitely ranked higher than Mr Usain Bolt. So here Timmy, you get 20 million bucks. Mr Usain, you get nothing, but have a gold star for trying". That system is just bad, they're not in the same league. Timmy is no way better than Usain, and in a head to head they would get destroyed. Now with the fix that's been applied, we can see Timmy and Usain race, and proper rankings will occur.
    Equal as in equal. The Matches everyone was being placed in were within range of what they were working with. If people can't win their own fair Matches, they have no room to complain about skill. Forget about the Rewards. If the Matches were fair and they weren't winning, then they can't blame it on not being able to win agaisnt Allies that wouldn't be capable in an unfair Match. It's called being a sore loser.
  • QuikPikQuikPik Member Posts: 813 ★★★★
    @DNA3000 it was me that tried to pretend to be you with prestige based match making analysis. Apparently not everyone believes in science and numbers.

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1290631#Comment_1290631
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,560 ★★★★★
    Let's not forget what triggered all of this. A certain Alliance who shall remain unnamed, were winning all of their Wars (by questionable practices "allegedly"), and threatened to take out a lower Alliance with a patsy Ally because they thought it was their right to do so. Then they switched it mid-Season last Season, but rather than make it a more fair transition, here we are with the same problem and a heads up. It's exactly like I said. No one can benefit from War but the top because they think they own the Board. Simple as that.
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