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AW tier drop during hiatus

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    ACPrimeACPrime Posts: 6
    Last week my alliance won a war and was moved into tier 1. For all the 2 alliance wars that we were allowed to enlist in we were tier 1 however that week alliance wars were shut down. Kabam continues the final week of the AW Season and we are magically moved to tier 2 with no loses or no reason for the drop in tiers. This has costed my alliance several points in the season and needs correction. I have submitted a ticket however received a very generic response. This issue needs to be addressed. My in game name is Stu1e and I am in the alliance [Apoco ]
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    Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 2,013 ★★★★
    Oh damn, yeah I stand corrected, didn’t realise there were 500 spots in p4, I’ve been stuck in t12 silver 1 in my 30m somewhat Relaxed alliance For way too long under that broken matchmaking system, much tighter than I realised
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    YoMovesYoMoves Posts: 1,281 ★★★★
    edited July 2020
    Let's just add [Apoco] Legends Of Apoco to the list too.

    We dropped from tier 1 to 2. That's a critical loss in points for our last war that may keep us out of Masters.
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    dzildzil Posts: 86
    Please add us to the list
    [ForSt] Forged Steel

    We dropped from t5 to t6 when war was u suspended.
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    Could those who are seeing this share the name of your alliance? If you don't want to post it here publicly, you can send it in a direct message to me.

    Agent Cerulean

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    Kabam ZibiitKabam Zibiit Posts: 7,033
    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.
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    SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 10,924 Guardian
    Yep, thought it might have something to do with added (new) vs removed (dead) alliances.
    Thanks Zibiit 😀

    Seemed more noticeable this time probably because was a whole week in between wars (unless your had more of an effort last week to remove even more dead ones than normal). But even normally, there is the occasional post up here during every season saying same thing happens, just to a very small amount of teams (and nobody ever believes them, lol).

    SUGGESTION... Even though New or Deleted Alliances may occur during a season, could Kabam LOCK the “Denominator” # of Ally's at the START OF A SEASON, and then only increase/decrease that 100% Denominator # (used for % Tier calculation) AFTER EACH SEASON ENDS.

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    KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,418 ★★★★★

    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    That's what off-season is supposed to be for. During season, especially in the middle, alliances shouldn't be removed leading to loss in tier. Many alliances plan on whether they push or not for a higher reward tier based on initial performance. What's the point if you're just going to drop a tier and lose out due to that?
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    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    Thank you for having this looked into and for providing us with an answer.
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    SandPounderSandPounder Posts: 343 ★★★
    edited August 2020

    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    Thank you for the explanation @Kabam Zibiit. I appreciate you taking time to have the team research the matter. However, as feedback to the team, I would suggest they limit the dead alliance culls to the offseason in order to maintain the competitive structure of the war season. While I understand the need to remove these dead alliances, this unintended consequence does have a negative effect on the competition, especially given how all alliances are currently ranked closer together from having our rankings reduced at the start of the season.
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    Canrdboy36Canrdboy36 Posts: 74
    Maybe I'm over thinking this but in my mind, if tier 8 is only allowed to have 100 alliances in it, tier 7 is allowed to have 90 in it and you all remove say 8 alliances from tier 7 that means there are now only 83 alliances out of 90, so you would move 8 active alliances from tier 8 in to tier 7, not remove them from tier 8 and put them in tier 9. It's a cascade effect that should result in moving up in tiers, not going the opposite direction. Again maybe I'm over thinking but I don't believe I am.
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    SandPounderSandPounder Posts: 343 ★★★

    Maybe I'm over thinking this but in my mind, if tier 8 is only allowed to have 100 alliances in it, tier 7 is allowed to have 90 in it and you all remove say 8 alliances from tier 7 that means there are now only 83 alliances out of 90, so you would move 8 active alliances from tier 8 in to tier 7, not remove them from tier 8 and put them in tier 9. It's a cascade effect that should result in moving up in tiers, not going the opposite direction. Again maybe I'm over thinking but I don't believe I am.

    Tiers are percentage based.

    So let’s say there are 10,000 alliances.

    Tier 5 is the top 4-5% of all Alliances, or about 100 alliances (5% of 10,000 minus 4% of 10,000 = 500-400 = 100)

    Now let’s say that Kabam removes 20% of that 10,000 as they are “dead alliances” And we’re down to 8,000 alliances. Suddenly, 20 of those 100 alliances in tier 5 are now tier 6!
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    Harvey1980Harvey1980 Posts: 30

    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    Removing inactive alliances in the middle of a season doesn’t sit right with me.
    The example of 2 alliances - 1 on the up, the other on the way down. A poor alliance starting in tier 3 and losing will have benefitted from staying in tier 3 as there are more spots available. The upcoming alliance (us) lose out as we’re in tier 4 for longer. We won this war just gone at tier 4 again and moved up 11 spots in plat4. Had it been in tier 3 we would have been very close or even in plat3. No doubt some worse alliances are still above us because of earlier losses that were in tier 3 that would now have been in tier 4.

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    ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,347 ★★★★

    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    How were we supposed to be "active" in AW when AW matchmaking was disabled.
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    Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 922 ★★★
    edited August 2020

    Hey there everyone, our team looked into this and it appears this happened because inactive alliances were removed from ranking calculations. The system calculates tier rankings based on the total number active alliances, and removes Alliances from the rankings if they are inactive for a long enough period of time. Enough inactive alliances were removed that the system had to recalculate the number of spots available in a Tier, which led to some moving down a Tier. This is part of the normal process of Tier calculation and helps to keep inactive alliances from taking up spots from others.

    Hey there,
    This explanation makes sense.. but why would this occur during the season? Shouldn't this be something which takes place during the 2 week off season as to NOT have an impact on regular season play as has happened in this circumstance? One other question.. if this happens arbitrarily.. then in a way regardless how we preform during the season.. the game mechanics behind the scenes actually dictate our standings in war. That would seem to defeat the purpose of the competitive aspect..
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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    edited August 2020
    @Kabam Zibiit did we think about that last comment before we posted? of course we were in active because AW was down 🤦🏻‍♂️ how could we do AW if it was down.

    I honestly can’t believe that comment was even made.
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    Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 922 ★★★
    Manup456 said:

    @Kabam Zibiit did we think about that last comment before we posted? of course we were in active because AW was down 🤦🏻‍♂️ how could we do AW if it was down.

    I honestly can’t believe that comment was even made.

    Pretty sure he meant inactive for an extended period of time... even so.. this thread was started only a day or two into the war downtime..
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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    edited August 2020
    We were tier 3 before AW went down and tier 4 after it came up and that’s what most are talking about so that answer makes no sense what so ever.

    This was also not the first thread on this issue
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    How were we supposed to be "active" in AW when AW matchmaking was disabled.

    Manup456 said:


    @Kabam Zibiit did we think about that last comment before we posted? of course we were in active because AW was down 🤦🏻‍♂️ how could we do AW if it was down.
    I honestly can’t believe that comment was even made.

    Quote... “inactive for a long enough period of time”.

    Not sure if those replies were serious or not. Obviously means alliances where probably nobody is even logging in anymore, or doing anything, and for long enough obviously means longer than just taking a couple of wars off.
    They don't even reclaim a Summoner Name from a “dormant” account until something like 500 days, although removing dormant Ally's from Tier ranks probably happens faster than 500 days.

    But as others have agreed, any change to number of participating alliances for Tier Calculations should only be done INBETWEEN SEASONS.
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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    AW tier drops come from not doing AW and that’s it and why I’m not sure why they thought that was a good answer.
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    Patchie93Patchie93 Posts: 1,898 ★★★★
    Manup456 said:

    AW tier drops come from not doing AW and that’s it and why I’m not sure why they thought that was a good answer.

    Do you even read the comments or just type out nonsense. You not participating in 3 wars had nothing to do with the tier drop.
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    OneMast3rOneMast3r Posts: 331 ★★
    Did anyone here win their last but drop a tier?
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    joke1004joke1004 Posts: 258 ★★★
    The best part is, this doesn’t fix the issue with Tier 1 being still having shells and taking up spots of hard and honest working tier 2 alliances.
    We dropped from top 20 war rating to top 100 after we started the season with two wins, but lost the third war.
    But we still see shells having higher war ratings then us, although they don’t participate in AW. The shorter season enhanced this issue even more. How is this fair?
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    Maybe the MULTIPLIER should have very tiny incremental differences from one alliance to the next, instead of huge jump in multipliers between large groups of alliances (even though 2 alliances may be very close to one another, but just on opposite sides of the fence).

    So have Multipliers adjust in increments of 1/100th of a whole, in very small alliance groupings from one 1/100th to the next.

    With an additional bonus amount of multiplier based on the ACTUAL MAP you are playing on (reflective of typical increase in costs / items used to complete that higher map, as well as probably earning less “base points” because of probably getting killed more often and losing more of your Attack Bonus's on each higher level of map).
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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    @Patchie93 Listen genius I did read the comment and it makes no sense my alliance was not inactive at all because we run AQ and everyone is grinding different content but that has nothing to do with dropping AW tiers, it’s not how it’s ever worked. You drop tiers when your inactive in AW.
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    Patchie93Patchie93 Posts: 1,898 ★★★★
    Manup456 said:

    @Patchie93 Listen genius I did read the comment and it makes no sense my alliance was not inactive at all because we run AQ and everyone is grinding different content but that has nothing to do with dropping AW tiers, it’s not how it’s ever worked. You drop tiers when your inactive in AW.

    Kabam explained what happened and everyone seems to understand it except you. Hell someone broke it down as simple as possible and you still don't seem to understand it. So there really isn't anything more anyone can say
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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    edited August 2020
    @Patchie93 ok they explained it but it’s still not a valid answer because it should have never happened and should be fixed because it’s not the case that the alliance was inactive and it affected the season.

    Also I directed my question to @Kabam Zibiit not you
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    Patchie93Patchie93 Posts: 1,898 ★★★★
    Manup456 said:

    @Patchie93 ok they explained it but it’s still not a valid answer because it should have never happened and should be fixed because it’s not the case that the alliance was inactive and it affected the season.

    Also I directed my question to @Kabam Zibiit not you

    The tier change had nothing to do with whether you were active or not. It had to do with them removing dead alliances from being factored in the tier calculations. Since tier is defined by what % of all alliances you sit. So less alliances = less alliances per tier. Which then = some alliances moved down a tier. It's really that simple
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