Black widow claire voyant vs Sorceror Supreme poll

Please feel free to explain why

Comments

I don't even have a claire at decent rank so my opinion my not be that knowledgeable but it is definitely subject to change

Crcrcrc

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?

DarkSoulDLX

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?

Cheat death and power steal

Artoria77

I've got both at rank 3.

Always use Sorcerer Supreme, becuase of that amazing ability to heal on block

Never use Claire Voiyant becuase I've got a more champs that can do what she can do better.

Artoria77

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?

Thing is she can only have 1 immunity at a time which is a huge drawback.

DarkSoulDLX

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?
Thing is she can only have 1 immunity at a time which is a huge drawback.

Does Sorceror supreme's awakened ability grant extra regen potentcy

danielmath

easily

Crcrcrc

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?
Thing is she can only have 1 immunity at a time which is a huge drawback.

One combo ending with a light at the start of the match and she has canceled suicides though

Rockypantherx

Have both at R5

Claire gets used far, far more

Kill_Grey

Claire has a lot going for her:

Her nullify is extremely easy to access, and her special buff control via buff immunity makes her the most efficient option for controlling buffs (I'd say sym supreme is probably the best, but buff immunity works against champs/nodes that are resistance to nullify and stagger, making her the most efficient imo)

The advantage she has against champs with any form of immunities is unmatched. That simple-looking sentence in her description opens her up to SO many possibilities. I mentioned nullify immune matchups earlier (looking at you Thing). Guess what, she gains Claire charges and power on every light and medium hit against Thing, shooting her up to a SP 3 for devastating effect. Her abilities against immunities also applies to nodes like Force of will (if you have pacify), debuff immune, bleed/Poison immune, limited immunity, Fisticuffs, and so many others I can't think of right now lol. Her unique ability also makes her counter a lot of science champs (class disadvantage) like Void, Thing (again), Human Torch (without any stupid nodes), Hulk, abomination, rhino (because she completely bypasses his physical resist), red hulk (same as rhino), and others I'm probably forgetting.

Another thing to note is her suicides friendliness. She's probably the only mystic that works extremely well with the setup (magik is cool, but she ideally has to be Awakened, and she's has no immunities); and she's also a top 3 champ for the Mastery imo. One combo and the bleed and poison are gone permanently. Easily heals recoil with her special 2, etc etc.

There's also her utilities. There's a lot to say in this regard, as her special 2 effects are well known already, I'm not going to talk about them.

I know there's a lot I haven't mentioned. Heck, there's a whole appreciation post about her! Claire is just so good. Sorc supreme is cool as well, but she simply isn't at Claire's level just yet.

Deacon

thanks lads .. settles it for me then

i was having this debate looking at my roster just the other day.

Tiger360

Claire Voyant is so fun to use, that heal on SP2 is awesome

Lvernon15

Suicides Claire no suicides sorc

Edeuink

Claire Voyant does a lot of things well. She has good buff control, but sym supreme is better. She has energy attacks, but a lot of mystics have energy attacks. She has immunities, but she has to use her light 4 to swap them. However, while sorcerer supreme has less things in her kit, she excels with all of them. Pick your utility and have it active for almost the entire fight. A huge armor break for damage. Take almost no block damage. Slow. It’s also very possible to have all of these effects active at the same time. To me, sorcerer supreme is better because she does a few things extremely well, while Claire does a lot of things great.

AGYAAT

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

Imran

If you got both, believe me you will sorcerer Supreme more and more. She is a living potion. She kinda remind me of perfect block team. Also, she don't need any synergy. She fit in any team. Just wait and watch, after many people get her, she will contest with doom not with black widow.
Those voting black widow because they never use sorcerer.

Crcrcrc

If you got both, believe me you will sorcerer Supreme. She is a leaving potion. She kinda remind me of perfect block team. Also, she don't need any synergy. She fit in any team. Just wait and watch, after many people get her, she will contest with doom not with black widow.

I have both, and sorcerer is really not that impressive

MagnaAngemon_333

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.

Man_Bat

Both are amazing and I took both to R5 without thinking twice. Claire is the clear winner with suicides, but Kali has just as much utility and can control several types of fights really well.

MagnaAngemon_333

Suicides Claire no suicides sorc

@Lvernon15 not really I don't run Suicides and still Claire is far more better than my Rank 5 Sorcerer Supreme.

But I got what you are trying to say, so many summoners believe that Claire damage is trash without Suicides, which is 100% wrong.

Edeuink

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.

Oh... Hello abyss expert.

Lvernon15

Suicides Claire no suicides sorc
@Lvernon15 not really I don't run Suicides and still Claire is far more better than my Rank 5 Sorcerer Supreme.

But I got what you are trying to say, so many summoners believe that Claire damage is trash without Suicides, which is 100% wrong.

I know her damage isn’t trash without them, but I’m a big fan of sorcerer and she just doesn’t work with suicides at all, mostly personal preference though

Jazzy011

Close, but I'm gonna have to give the edge to claire

MagnaAngemon_333

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.
Oh... Hello abyss expert.

@Edeuink I haven't done Abyss but when I do, I will be either using Symbiote Supreme or Longshot. Because i believe Claire is not good in Abyss. Plus even on path 1 claire have to face Champion and VTD. Claire could have been good Abyss candidate if kabam provide sp3 skip mechanic.

I believe claire is not very option for Abyss but outside Abyss she is a queen.

AGYAAT

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.

Hey bud it's looks like you got offended😂, we all are different and we all have different opinions you definitely have 5/5 MD and most of the fight are perfect matchups for bwcv because they all have immunities or you are getting benefits from your phase immunity whenever they failed to apply in you, I don't wanna explain how you are getting almost double or more burst damage from sp2 by exploiting your opponent's immunity and after all these fight are around 120-150k health points that's not a big deal check 6.3 or 6.4 health pools and attack value (now they did adjustments in attack value) if you are gonna use her in those matchups then you can't frequently use sp2 in hailfire phase (only why to see her best damage output)

If you wanna know what is good damage output then see some Mojo's gameplay and appreciate some underrated champs, i did that 6.4.6 quest with my r5 mojo and all fight were ended in ~50 hits (~300k health points)

MagnaAngemon_333

Suicides Claire no suicides sorc
@Lvernon15 not really I don't run Suicides and still Claire is far more better than my Rank 5 Sorcerer Supreme.

But I got what you are trying to say, so many summoners believe that Claire damage is trash without Suicides, which is 100% wrong.
I know her damage isn’t trash without them, but I’m a big fan of sorcerer and she just doesn’t work with suicides at all, mostly personal preference though

@Lvernon15 I got what your trying to say, I love Sorcerer Supreme as well. I respect your opinion, you definitely have points. I can't say you are wrong. Everyone can have different thoughts on characters. Like I like Elsa more than kill monger.

Imran

If you got both, believe me you will sorcerer Supreme. She is a leaving potion. She kinda remind me of perfect block team. Also, she don't need any synergy. She fit in any team. Just wait and watch, after many people get her, she will contest with doom not with black widow.
I have both, and sorcerer is really not that impressive

I don't believe you. Since you said she not that impressive. She is one of my most used champ with ghost, blade, venom, hyperion, guillotine 2099, domino etc. Also she has more use in cavalier difficulty, MVP in varient 5 for me. I love clearing content itemless.

MagnaAngemon_333

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.
Hey bud it's looks like you got offended😂, we all are different and we all have different opinions you definitely have 5/5 MD and most of the fight are perfect matchups for bwcv because they all have immunities or you are getting benefits from your phase immunity whenever they failed to apply in you, I don't wanna explain how you are getting almost double or more burst damage from sp2 by exploiting your opponent's immunity and after all these fight are around 120-150k health points that's not a big deal check 6.3 or 6.4 health pools and attack value (now they did adjustments in attack value) if you are gonna use her in those matchups then you can't frequently use sp2 in hailfire phase (only why to see her best damage output)

If you wanna know what is good damage output then see some Mojo's gameplay and appreciate some underrated champs, i did that 6.4.6 quest with my r5 mojo and all fight were ended in ~50 hits (~300k health points)

@AGYAAT first of all these fights have almost 200K health pools, 2nd thing I have shown Korg and Deadpool fights as well. 3rd thing claire have alot of hits because her Sp2 have slot of hits.Everyone can have their opinions statement is correct. But above on your previous comment you weren't giving opinion, you were throwing full shades on Claire because you have sorcerer supreme max ranked, you can check your own comment. Having an opinion and misguiding others is a different thing.

But the way you again compared claire to mojo was also wasn't an opinion. You just don't like Claire.

And that's what I meant Claire can take advantage from alot of things, claire don't need MD, I was not running 5/5 MD. In that video you can see Claire can take advantage of more than buffs. From IMMUNITIES, from effects and from buff and even without these factors she still wrecks the fight.Looja like you skipped the video. But if you want to see Claire can 6.3, 6.4 and Variant 5 then I am ready. And you used Mojo for 6.4.6 only one lane right, I can do more quests.

And again I am saying if you don't like Champion leave it, just don't demoting Champions in front of others especially new players. Weather it's Elsa, kill monger, guardian or which ever class it is. Instead of trying 100% to demote Champion it's better to make videos or threads to guide new players who ask for which Champion to rank up.

DarkEternity

So I like to look into 2 different aspects of a champ when I figure out which is the overall better champ. These two are: In Class Comparison and Overall Viability.

In Class Comparison: Taking a look at SorSupreme we can see that she has a combination of utility that we see in the class overall. She, first, has a nullification field that acts similar to Doom’s aura of hazareth. Additionally, she has access to slow in order to completely shutdown unstoppable even if you are directly nullifying which is pretty unique to the mystic class overall. She has easy access to armor break which is quite valuable in multiple scenarios and for overall damage output. Her regen on block and passive regen basically make her block into a stronger one than Doom and then her passive heal allows her to basically just regen any sort of chip damage left over. She also can be reliable in certain power control scenarios, though that’s not what she was made for. Her in class weaknesses are basically no immunities, lack of power control (when compared to the top power controllers in class), etc

BWCV has quite a bit of utility herself. Her most redeeming feature being the ability to shrug off suicides and heal back recoil damage using her L2. She has very very good regen that can allow you to make a few mistakes and still regen to full. She also has a burst phase for damage on her Sp2 that can amp up her damage quite a bit. Her other sp2 utility is power control which isn’t super good power control but it’s alright as well as buff immunity which makes her opponents unable to gain buffs. Her Sp3 also allows her to gain an attack boost only during the Sp3 based her charges, death touch which improves her curse potencies, and (when duped) very very niche death immunity. Her in class weaknesses is that for her to get her nullify she requires the opponent to be immune to one of her debuffs. She also doesn’t have very many ways to counter unstoppable making her lackluster in that regard. Along with all of that, without suicides her damage compared to many other in-class champs like Doom, SorSupreme, Longshot, SymSupreme, Mojo, etc is horrendous.

Overall Viability: This is really where I believe SorSupreme shines and Claire fails. Claire’s main niche is her great regen, immunities and her buff immunity (sometimes). Her power steal is about as good as SorSupreme’s so they tie it up there. While Claire tries to do most others things well she completely fails. Her damage isn’t even comparable to SorSupreme’s or even one of the best regen champs in the game: Omega Red.

Claire’s Strengths: She has one of the most potent healing abilities in the game, allowing her to go from around 50% to 100% when she has good crit RNG. This regen is a bit better than Omega’s who, with 30 spores, can regen 30-40% of his max health. She also has amazing buff control and power gain when against a champion immune to her debuffs as well as a large Sp3 she can fire off. Her Sp3 also gets her the next strength she has, death immunity which keeps her from dying and heals her. She’s also an overall simple champion to use with good animations.

Claire’s Weaknesses: Oh my, where to begin. She essentially requires suicides in order to do any sort of damage as well as a lack of any real mystic based utility to make up for it. Her power and buff control are not strong at all, her buff control only being good if the target is immune to her debuffs or she has just used a sp2 to get the buff immunity debuff. She has no real utility over many champions used in endgame. If I want survivability I use Ghost or Quake, if I want power control I use Doom or Magik (or even Quake, Ghost w/ Hood, or warlock!), if I want nullify for something I’ll use SymSupreme or Longshot (among the other choices like Doom or slow champions for unstoppable like Stealthy, Shulk or SorSupreme). She basically takes everything and does it worse besides immunities and regeneration.

SorSupreme Strengths: Utility access at any time. She can literally store bits and pieces of utility and activate them whenever. If you need an armor break she can store that, if you need regen on block and passive regen she can store that, if you need slow she can store that. She can also permanently earn a rune using a very powerful Sp3 which makes certain that she will have either armor break, slow, or regen on block the entire fight. Unlike Shulk or Spidergwen who rely on heavies for slow, SorSupreme can access it on special attacks and unlike stealthy she never has to run out of said slow. Her regen on block is invaluable as it can fully block 6.4 No Retreat Annihilus’ sp2, GM’s Sp2, 6.2.6 Champion’s specials, etc without a worry in the world. Her nullification aura is also very useful in the right circumstances. She also has great damage output without suicides using her Fury phase and armor break rune which enhances her damage quite a bit after some ramp up. Her Sp3 can also hit quite hard after you build up her runes. Her power gain mechanics are also very strong as they allow her to benefit from MD, gain power through hitting, and gain power passively without hitting or taking hits.

SorSupreme Weaknesses: Her damage without armor breaks is quite lackluster. In situations where it’s hard to use her heavy she can’t rotate her phases as quickly. Her slow, unlike basically every other slow champ, cannot he used to counter Rhino or any other science champ that happens to be unstoppable. She can handle being capped at a sp1 but it hinders her damage quite a bit as well, and can take away utility because she needs her Sp3 for a permanent rune. Her power control is also lackluster but not terrible. Still doesn’t compare to the top power control options.

Using this it would seem like, overall, SorSupreme is better. She has better utility, damage, and accessibility.

DarkEternity

Bwcv is too overrated, believe me bud if don't use suicides then you will not gonna use her for most content if you do R5 her,
She is good if you don't have strong rosters because she have some utility in one place but then her damage output it not acceptable without suicides for endgame content, I have her at r4 and I also have r5 mystic gem and overflowing t5b & t2a but still I don't consider her my r5 option until I switch to suicides,

If you have some 6* or r4 champs for immunity then I suggest you to focus on SS because doom and SS (both versions) are best in mystic class if you need a solid nullify champ and new sorcerer supreme is the better version of symbiot supreme, I did r4 mine because of vision aarkus path in 6.4 final quest I'm really disappointed because that path has tenacity (75% chance) and she was useless if your opponent don't have bleed/poison/incinerate immunity because then her nullify ability ability completely depend on sp2 (only for 8-9 seconds), she was only useful for one fight CMM (any mystic champ is good against her)

https://youtu.be/am5VhqR5BTI

@AGYAAT I hate when people say Claire damage is trash without Suicides. I think this video may prove you wrong, and if it doesn't just tag me I am ready to make more videos on her to prove you wrong. And trust I believe in proving.

So my judgement you are 100% using her Wrong if you are saying her damage is trash without Suicides. Suicides only boost claire potential, she own her own is a queen.

So stop misguiding others that she needs Suicides.

Without suicides Claire is the 2nd best Mystic, but with Suicides she tops the list not in just her class but overall one of the top game breaking Champions. I have Sorcerer Supreme and Claire both and trust me Sorcerer Supreme is not even close to Claire.

@MagnaAngemon_333 Woah, uh, you do realize that is 6.1.3... right? Lol