“Caution light sensitivity” discussion

StaphMember

I’d like to commend Kabam for alerting the community to this potential visual effect and informing that parts of Psycho Man’s animation sequence may not be suitable for all audiences. This is certainly a step in the right direction!

Moving forward, I question whether the programming team will make changes to diminish the strobe effects, or if this warning is the end of the road.

Additionally, other sequences come to mind that threaten greater light sensitive consequences. King Groot’s Sp3 comes to mind as well as Thor Rag’s Sp3. As a medical provider and an advocate for those who suffer from epilepsy, I would love to see a move to change these sequences or provide an option to bypass the animation sequences entirely to avoid potential injury or disability.

SpideyFunko

King Groots sp3 is so stupid. Just make a cool design, not a bunch of flashing white light

Jaded

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

StaphMember

Jaded said:

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

Blue light glasses would help to reduce eye muscle strain and fatigue, but would do very little in regards to preventing neurological hyper stimulation that causes epileptic seizures in those with the condition.

An alternative that I would suggest would include reducing the contrast between light and dark fields within the animation, or simply to slow the frame rate of the animation itself. Either of these options could reduce the hyper stimulation of the nerves in the visual pathway and reduce the risk of seizures.

SpideyFunko

StaphMember said:

Jaded said:

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

Blue light glasses would help to reduce eye muscle strain and fatigue, but would do very little in regards to preventing neurological hyper stimulation that causes epileptic seizures in those with the condition.

An alternative that I would suggest would include reducing the contrast between light and dark fields within the animation, or simply to slow the frame rate of the animation itself. Either of these options could reduce the hyper stimulation of the nerves in the visual pathway and reduce the risk of seizures.

I have no clue what you just said but I think I agree with you

ItsDamien

Jaded said:

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

Check and see if your device supports a blue light filter (I know my Samsung S10+ has this feature), and maybe lowering the brightness of your screen while playing. Not much else a user can do on their end without paying for glasses.

DarkZen

For me is Wasp wings that causes me discomfort. They move so fast sometime it gives me a slight headache

Jaded

ItsDamien said:

Jaded said:

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

Check and see if your device supports a blue light filter (I know my Samsung S10+ has this feature), and maybe lowering the brightness of your screen while playing. Not much else a user can do on their end without paying for glasses.

That’s my brightness 24/7, unless I’m up all night it goes to zero.

StaphMember said:

Jaded said:

Very interesting.

How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

Blue light glasses would help to reduce eye muscle strain and fatigue, but would do very little in regards to preventing neurological hyper stimulation that causes epileptic seizures in those with the condition.

An alternative that I would suggest would include reducing the contrast between light and dark fields within the animation, or simply to slow the frame rate of the animation itself. Either of these options could reduce the hyper stimulation of the nerves in the visual pathway and reduce the risk of seizures.

This has come up a lot in my house between my wife and I. I appreciate the information. I thought the blue light glasses would help with the potential seizures as well.
(Guess she’s right again haha)

GroundedWisdom

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

ItsDamien

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

There should be an actual warning description, prior to the Kabam logo appearing though. Most games with flashing lights especially for photosensitive epilepsy tend to do this.

Crcrcrc

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is what I think too. They shouldn’t have to change really cool things like Psycho Man’s animations for a small group of people. Maybe as a setting, but I don’t want it as a permanent mode going forward. Not to be rude to anybody who suffers from this, of course.

GroundedWisdom

ItsDamien said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

There should be an actual warning description, prior to the Kabam logo appearing though. Most games with flashing lights especially for photosensitive epilepsy tend to do this.

That would be reasonable.

kconrad37

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

Nichj99

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

SpideyFunko

kconrad37 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

But changing an entire characters animations is too much. Just be careful. Maybe make it a setting or something, but it’s a minority. I don’t want to be rude but they shouldn’t change the animations.

StaphMember

@Nichj99 do you have any other suggestions beyond what I mentioned?

- Allow users to skip these sequences
- Utilize an on screen depiction of strobe effects (such as a red persistent charge button on the champs icon)

Crcrcrc

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

ItsDamien

SpideyFunko said:

kconrad37 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

But changing an entire characters animations is too much. Just be careful. Maybe make it a setting or something, but it’s a minority. I don’t want to be rude but they shouldn’t change the animations.

The best option (which won't happen unfortunately) would be for an extended accessibility option for various different things, something that can be toggled in the options. On top of this they could add functionality for color blind users as well to make it more worth their while to actually think about the added options. A text size adjuster could be another thing that would fit under these options.

Of course I would like to see these options added to the game, but I don't think Kabam sees the value in putting time and resources into it unfortunately.

GroundedWisdom

kconrad37 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

If someone has health concerns that make them sensitive to lights, then video games are a well-known trigger. It's not a new thing. It's their responsibility to be aware of what they're doing. If I had Diabetes, I couldn't blame the candy bar company for my consumption. A warning is appropriate, but dumbing down the game is not a reasonable option for me. Do I sympathize? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's the game's responsibility.

Nichj99

StaphMember said:

@Nichj99 do you have any other suggestions beyond what I mentioned?

- Allow users to skip these sequences
- Utilize an on screen depiction of strobe effects (such as a red persistent charge button on the champs icon)

I’ve always thought that skipping sequences would be a great feature, how many times have we sat through the same SP3’s.

There are games out there where you can experience the full animation or a dulled back option for this reason. This could be considered, or as I said like KG I can at least look away during these instances in a cut sequence.

Liss_Bliss_

Where was this warning/notice at? I must have missed it. I don’t have sensitivity but am curious where it was shown.

Djin

Liss_Bliss_ said:

Where was this warning/notice at? I must have missed it. I don’t have sensitivity but am curious where it was shown.

@Liss_Bliss_ In the In-game mail.

GroundedWisdom

Many games have intense graphics and flashing lights. That's part of their experience. I think having a warning at the beginning of the game is reasonable. I just don't agree with altering that experience.

Nichj99

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.

StaphMember

GroundedWisdom said:

kconrad37 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

If someone has health concerns that make them sensitive to lights, then video games are a well-known trigger. It's not a new thing. It's their responsibility to be aware of what they're doing. If I had Diabetes, I couldn't blame the candy bar company for my consumption. A warning is appropriate, but dumbing down the game is not a reasonable option for me. Do I sympathize? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's the game's responsibility.

The candy bar company clearly states the sugar content on the package though so they’ve informed the consumer of the risk.

I don’t believe it’s too much to ask for small changes or ongoing depictions of risk for specified characters.

Admittedly, reworking animations may prove to be a big task, but I don’t agree that Nefele to g to do so relieves the producer from accountability.

Crcrcrc

Nichj99 said:

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.

Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.

GroundedWisdom

StaphMember said:

GroundedWisdom said:

kconrad37 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

This is 120% the absolute worst take. You're telling me that if someone LOVED this game and suddenly couldn't play anymore because a NEW champions animations cause them to have disorientation, that's fine? Get out of here, have have consideration for your fellow players.

Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, if a game is going to include flashing lights that can cause discomfort and disorientation, it is the responsibility of the developers to make sure that they put things in place to ensure the game can be enjoyed by all.

If someone has health concerns that make them sensitive to lights, then video games are a well-known trigger. It's not a new thing. It's their responsibility to be aware of what they're doing. If I had Diabetes, I couldn't blame the candy bar company for my consumption. A warning is appropriate, but dumbing down the game is not a reasonable option for me. Do I sympathize? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's the game's responsibility.

The candy bar company clearly states the sugar content on the package though so they’ve informed the consumer of the risk.

I don’t believe it’s too much to ask for small changes or ongoing depictions of risk for specified characters.

Admittedly, reworking animations may prove to be a big task, but I don’t agree that Nefele to g to do so relieves the producer from accountability.

I don't agree with small changes at all. What I do agree with, even for liability purposes, is a warning during start-up. "Warning: May contain flashing lights and images.", or something of the ilk.

GroundedWisdom

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.

Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.

To clarify, I used that as an example of someone who was aware they had Diabetes and chose to ate the candy. Not so much developing it. Lol.

Nichj99

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.

Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.

The difference here is that the candy bars are a leading factor to the establishment of diabetes, which can also be reversed in this type 2 example.

Epilepsy won’t be cured just because video games are taken away. As I highlighted in the KG example I can live with it in these SP3 animations. Why not keep it here?

Zaosafler

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

Aren’t you special.

This game used to be fairly friendly regarding issues like light sensitivity. Which is made it a stand out. But they’ve introduced a couple of those backgrounds that those with visual impairments might find hard to see. Not so good.

And recently they are adding more, and fancier strobing effects. A real problem for people that have light sensitive issues. Which on the US, is about 30% of the adult population has something such as migraines or seizures that are triggered by strobing lights. So introducing those will cost them a large market segment. For instance, 4 people in my allaince mentioned having headaches after playing Psycho Man.

So tuning those effects down is a good idea, just from customer service and business perspectives.

StaphMember

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

Crcrcrc said:

Nichj99 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.

Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.

Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.

Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.

Except that there are sugar free options. Every argument posed against the precautions in this thread seems more an argument for the precautions themselves.

- food shows nutrient content to avoid liability for non-compliant diabetic consumers
- Roughly equal choices/experiences are available for those that can eat these candies

You’re statement that someone should “[not do something or that they should not expect the option of an equivalent experience without risk because it might diminish your experience]” is toeing a dangerous line. That’s the line of thought that was predominant in segregation.