“Caution light sensitivity” discussion

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Comments

  • Drake2078Drake2078 Posts: 610 ★★★
    Personally I would love to have the option to skip all SP3 animations.
  • SaltE_Wenis69SaltE_Wenis69 Posts: 1,507 ★★★

    Jaded said:

    Very interesting.

    How do you feel about blue light glasses for users? Or any suggestions to help our eyes if kabam can’t?

    Blue light glasses would help to reduce eye muscle strain and fatigue, but would do very little in regards to preventing neurological hyper stimulation that causes epileptic seizures in those with the condition.

    An alternative that I would suggest would include reducing the contrast between light and dark fields within the animation, or simply to slow the frame rate of the animation itself. Either of these options could reduce the hyper stimulation of the nerves in the visual pathway and reduce the risk of seizures.
    So what your saying is blue light glasses are good at preventing temporary things but don't help with big problems?

    Dang
  • Speedro420Speedro420 Posts: 842 ★★★

    Crcrcrc said:

    Nichj99 said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Nichj99 said:

    I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

    As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

    King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.
    Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.
    Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

    You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

    Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.
    Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.
    Except that there are sugar free options. Every argument posed against the precautions in this thread seems more an argument for the precautions themselves.

    - food shows nutrient content to avoid liability for non-compliant diabetic consumers
    - Roughly equal choices/experiences are available for those that can eat these candies

    You’re statement that someone should “[not do something or that they should not expect the option of an equivalent experience without risk because it might diminish your experience]” is toeing a dangerous line. That’s the line of thought that was predominant in segregation.
    A.) this has zero to do with segregation.
    B.) people with these issues may have to give up things they may want to do.

    People can’t ride roller coasters due to certain conditions. They have the warning and it’s up to the people with those conditions not to do it. You don’t see amusement parks closing because everyone can’t do them. Video games are inherent in the risk for seizures. It sucks some may not be able to participate but I would stop playing if my health required it.
  • TheMailmannTheMailmann Posts: 109 ★★

    Crcrcrc said:

    Nichj99 said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    Nichj99 said:

    I'm not exactly in tandem with this. A warning is suitable, but I'm also not keen on altering the graphics. It's the responsibility of people with such issues to be aware of what they participate in. Games are widely known to have flashing lights and other triggers. The alternative is a somewhat watered-down experience.

    As someone who actually has epilepsy I mostly disagree in this instance. Whilst I take every precaution - how do I complete content in this situation if I am not to do this fight, not only now but ongoing? Why would I put myself at risk of hospitalization and having my license suspended- then end up letting my alliance down for not being able to complete a path.

    King Groots SP3 does my head in, but at least I can look away during that animation sequence.
    Either wait for a settings change or, not to be rude, but maybe you shouldn’t play if you can be hospitalized by it? I’m sure there are tons of people who really enjoy the awesome animations (myself included) and it’s not fair to the majority to cater to a minority. Not to be disrespectful, I know epilepsy is a real problem, and I hope that a settings option is added to help epileptic people.
    Understand completely where you are coming from, but let’s flip this point of view.

    You’re saying I shouldn’t play because of a new issue because it might effect your enjoyment. after 5 years and a 1.9mill base account rating this is very disheartening after countless hours of grinding a dozens of friends made both on here and in alliances.

    Rather, if the design had been smart from the beginning - no issue and you would have no idea what you might be missing out on. Awesome animations can still be done in another, less dangerous way.
    Let’s see, this may not relate as much, but hypothetically if I ate junk food for 2 years and suddenly got diabetes, would I stop eating it? Or would I ask for it to be made sugar-free? I just don’t agree with altering something that is enjoyable to most people when most other games do not do that.
    Except that there are sugar free options. Every argument posed against the precautions in this thread seems more an argument for the precautions themselves.

    - food shows nutrient content to avoid liability for non-compliant diabetic consumers
    - Roughly equal choices/experiences are available for those that can eat these candies

    You’re statement that someone should “[not do something or that they should not expect the option of an equivalent experience without risk because it might diminish your experience]” is toeing a dangerous line. That’s the line of thought that was predominant in segregation.
    A.) this has zero to do with segregation.
    B.) people with these issues may have to give up things they may want to do.

    People can’t ride roller coasters due to certain conditions. They have the warning and it’s up to the people with those conditions not to do it. You don’t see amusement parks closing because everyone can’t do them. Video games are inherent in the risk for seizures. It sucks some may not be able to participate but I would stop playing if my health required it.
    it’s not fair to say that we would stop playing if we have the condition because we’ll never really know what it’s like unless we truly have it. the thing is, the game works even without the flashing lights and has been for many years. if it has been that way from the start then it’s probably the game they should stay away from. what if they’ve played for many years and enjoyed the game but now it becomes a problem?

    i do understand kabam isn’t responsible for anyone’s health condition but this is what they can do for inclusion. for instance, a parking spot for people with disabilities isn’t a store’s responsibility but if we provide them then it eases some people’s lives even if it takes 1 spot away from people without disabilities
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 15,060 ★★★★★
    Crcrcrc said:

    Sormor said:

    HI_guys said:

    Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

    I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

    I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?

    Providing lower graphics would be more beneficial since there are players who stopped due to laggy devices and unplayable game modes
    Yeah, exactly. Just provide those players with that option, but give every player the option to choose whether they want to play on a lower-graphics setting or not.
    Also an option to turn off stage effects as part of this would be great. The smoke and rain effects can be terrible at night.
    I feel like the easiest solution would just to have two options. Visual Effects on and off.

    With Visual Effects off, there would be no stage effects, background movement, projectile/attack lighting, and no animations while stationary (meaning no switching of Psycho Man's control box while blocking, no flame effects on Torch).

    Visual Effects on would just be the gameplay we have now.
    They can contract a consultant to determine which effects pose the greatest threat and advise on how they might safely avoid these effects in the future as well, or at least create guidelines for a threshold of when/which effects should be modified.
    That seems like a bit much. All they need to do is have an option to turn of strobing and background effects. Reading through this thread would give them the info they need to disable in the setting.
    There should be an option to turn down the brightness and strobing effects, so those that are bothered by them can get rid of them and those that enjoy the animations and don’t have that problem can experience them to the fullest.

    But knowing Kabam, they won’t do that.
  • kenadroidkenadroid Posts: 157 ★★
    Kabam should introduce low graphic asset switch. It could lessen the flashiness of some SP attacks like Jubilee's or Nova's
  • phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 2,230 ★★★★
    The answer is adjustable graphic/effect settings.
  • Mobile_P0tat0Mobile_P0tat0 Posts: 325 ★★★
    Has Kabam made any comment of future plans concerning this issue yet?
  • StaphMemberStaphMember Posts: 136

    Has Kabam made any comment of future plans concerning this issue yet?


    Unfortunately not yet to my knowledge. There’s been no moderator comment here despite 3 days on the font page of the discussions board and a shout out in a video by ILacSkills.

    Perhaps the company is devising an approach, but certainly something as benign as “we are aware on the ongoing issue and are working to develop changes” would serve as acknowledgement of the issue. Even in the in-game message and forum announcement, as I recall, there was no apology.

    Maybe further attention from other big names in the community will force their hand.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 15,060 ★★★★★

    Has Kabam made any comment of future plans concerning this issue yet?


    Unfortunately not yet to my knowledge. There’s been no moderator comment here despite 3 days on the font page of the discussions board and a shout out in a video by ILacSkills.

    Perhaps the company is devising an approach, but certainly something as benign as “we are aware on the ongoing issue and are working to develop changes” would serve as acknowledgement of the issue. Even in the in-game message and forum announcement, as I recall, there was no apology.

    Maybe further attention from other big names in the community will force their hand.

    this is all they’ve said
  • gash228gash228 Posts: 55
    edited February 6

    I’d like to commend Kabam for alerting the community to this potential visual effect and informing that parts of Psycho Man’s animation sequence may not be suitable for all audiences. This is certainly a step in the right direction!

    Moving forward, I question whether the programming team will make changes to diminish the strobe effects, or if this warning is the end of the road.

    Additionally, other sequences come to mind that threaten greater light sensitive consequences. King Groot’s Sp3 comes to mind as well as Thor Rag’s Sp3. As a medical provider and an advocate for those who suffer from epilepsy, I would love to see a move to change these sequences or provide an option to bypass the animation sequences entirely to avoid potential injury or disability.

    Interesting opinion however I don't really get why it was only Psycho-Man's animations that Kabam decided to warn people about. Didn't characters like Doctor Doom, Human Torch, Jubilee (She was literally added one month ago) and others already have flashy animations. Because I would really like for someone to explain to me why are Psycho-Man's animations considered more flashy than others'.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,989 ★★★★★

    Has Kabam made any comment of future plans concerning this issue yet?


    Unfortunately not yet to my knowledge. There’s been no moderator comment here despite 3 days on the font page of the discussions board and a shout out in a video by ILacSkills.

    Perhaps the company is devising an approach, but certainly something as benign as “we are aware on the ongoing issue and are working to develop changes” would serve as acknowledgement of the issue. Even in the in-game message and forum announcement, as I recall, there was no apology.

    Maybe further attention from other big names in the community will force their hand.

    this is all they’ve said
    What else can they say at this point?
  • StaphMemberStaphMember Posts: 136
    gash228 said:

    I’d like to commend Kabam for alerting the community to this potential visual effect and informing that parts of Psycho Man’s animation sequence may not be suitable for all audiences. This is certainly a step in the right direction!

    Moving forward, I question whether the programming team will make changes to diminish the strobe effects, or if this warning is the end of the road.

    Additionally, other sequences come to mind that threaten greater light sensitive consequences. King Groot’s Sp3 comes to mind as well as Thor Rag’s Sp3. As a medical provider and an advocate for those who suffer from epilepsy, I would love to see a move to change these sequences or provide an option to bypass the animation sequences entirely to avoid potential injury or disability.

    Interesting opinion however I don't really get why it was only Psycho-Man's animations that Kabam decided to warn people about. Didn't characters like Doctor Doom, Human Torch, Jubilee (She was literally added one month ago) and others already have flashy animations. Because I would really like for someone to explain to me why are Psycho-Man's animations considered more flashy than others'.


    I imagine the message was in response to reports from someone who experienced an adverse reaction. I'm sure word of such reactions have been noted in the past, but to my knowledge there has never been any change and in my experience, no message to detail the potential for such effects. I do wonder why given notification of such effects, they would not evaluate similar effects in other champions or include the names of those champions in the message as well.

  • DaddriedaDaddrieda Posts: 906 ★★★
    i don't know about you guys, but playing against Psycho-man with screen bright level down to 20%, sitting in a well lit room and taking some breaks from time to time isn't helping that much.

    i went through hearing surgery to restore my hearing and the downside with the surgery it has caused my walk/running balance to be off so walking is difficult without some helps. It also has caused head spinning from when looking up,down, right or left because my brain think i moved too fast due to increased lost bad walk/running balance issue that i'm currently have

    what i'm trying to say that when i play against or use Psycho-man my head spinning just shoot off the roof despite not moving around, just sitting still while head is glued against my phone with 20% screen bright level, sitting in a well lit room. Normal i take a break every hour or so, but with this the break is immediately.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 15,060 ★★★★★
    King Groots special 3.

    It is, as I have always said, and epileptic seizure waiting to happen. I understand you were trying to go for the spooky vibe, but it comes off as lazy. Like, lazier than Killmonger’s special 3. And with the now high probability Psycho Man’s animations will be changed since your tips aren’t helping and I can’t Kabam adding a feature to help prevent said seizures, you should maybe actually make a good special 3 for KG instead of the stupid one we have now.
  • Lucasjones98Lucasjones98 Posts: 313 ★★
    I’m gonna skip playing this month, I don’t wanna have to fight psycho-man however many times I’d have to, to 100% the side quest and event quest. I had a seizure the first time, that was an accident. I don’t plan on an accidental second.
  • Lucasjones98Lucasjones98 Posts: 313 ★★
    Thank you.
  • Lucasjones98Lucasjones98 Posts: 313 ★★
    The problem Is, I don’t think kabam have noticed, is that this can surely lead to a law suit? I’d never take it further, but for all they know someone else who suffered could easily take this to court and announce the fact that they didn’t have a warning the first time.
  • DaddriedaDaddrieda Posts: 906 ★★★
    edited February 6
    If Kabam somewhat refuse to change it, then at least change the colors so it's less impactful on us players with Epilepsy and other issues. I don't care if i signed up an EULA to waive my right, this can lead to an court with an high chance of company bankruptcy because kabam knew the risk. i didn't sign up to get damaged.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Daddrieda said:

    If Kabam somewhat refuse to change it, then at least change the colors so it's less impactful on us players with Epilepsy and other issues. I don't care if i signed up an EULA to waive my right, this can lead to an court with an high chance of company bankruptcy because kabam knew the risk. i didn't sign up to get damaged.

    Not really. Their TOS reads:

    "19. LIMITED LIABILITY
    Neither Kabam nor any of our subsidiaries, affiliates, licensors, suppliers, advertisers or sponsors, nor our or their directors, officers, employees, consultants, agents or other representatives, are responsible or liable for any indirect, incidental, consequential, special, exemplary, punitive or other damages (including without limitation, damages for loss of business, loss of data or lost profits), under any contract, negligence, strict liability or other theory arising out of or relating in any way to the Services, Websites and/or the Materials, including that which is available through any third party platform, Submissions, any linked websites or any code, product or service purchased, accessible or usable through the Services or any third party platform. Your sole remedy for dissatisfaction with the Services, Websites and/or the Materials, including that which is available through any third party platform, submissions or any linked websites is to stop using the Services, Websites, Materials, Submissions, products, or linked websites, as applicable. The sole and exclusive maximum liability to Kabam for all damages, losses and causes of action, whether in contract, tort (including without limitation, negligence) or otherwise, shall be the total amount paid by you to Kabam in the preceding twelve (12) months, if any, to access or use the Services, Websites or the Materials. Because some states or jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the above limitation may not apply to you. No communication of any kind between you and Kabam or a representative of Kabam constitutes a waiver of any limitations of liability hereunder or create any additional warranty not expressly stated in the Terms of Service. Multiple claims will not increase the monetary damages limit stated herein. You agree that the damage exclusions in these Terms of Service shall apply even if any remedy fails of its essential purpose."

    By agreeing to the TOS, they don't claim liability to any damages.
  • DaddriedaDaddrieda Posts: 906 ★★★

    The problem Is, I don’t think kabam have noticed, is that this can surely lead to a law suit? I’d never take it further, but for all they know someone else who suffered could easily take this to court and announce the fact that they didn’t have a warning the first time.

    the problem is that we signed up the EULA contract back then causing us to lose our right to waive. even though we signed up for that we didn't sign up to get more damaged.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    edited February 6
    Daddrieda said:

    The problem Is, I don’t think kabam have noticed, is that this can surely lead to a law suit? I’d never take it further, but for all they know someone else who suffered could easily take this to court and announce the fact that they didn’t have a warning the first time.

    the problem is that we signed up the EULA contract back then causing us to lose our right to waive. even though we signed up for that we didn't sign up to get more damaged.
    But you agreed to not hold Kabam liable for damages...

    It doesn't matter if you didn't know you were going to get more damaged. (At least that's how I think it works. I don't work in corporate law.)
  • Lucasjones98Lucasjones98 Posts: 313 ★★

    Daddrieda said:

    The problem Is, I don’t think kabam have noticed, is that this can surely lead to a law suit? I’d never take it further, but for all they know someone else who suffered could easily take this to court and announce the fact that they didn’t have a warning the first time.

    the problem is that we signed up the EULA contract back then causing us to lose our right to waive. even though we signed up for that we didn't sign up to get more damaged.
    But you agreed to not hold Kabam liable for damages...

    It doesn't matter if you didn't know you were going to get more damaged. (At least that's how I think it works. I don't work in corporate law.)
    So what you’re saying is, it’s my fault that there was no warning to flashing lights which then led to my seizure? Because I signed a EULA?

    So basically I caused my own seizure?
This discussion has been closed.