Today's offer drop rates

124

Comments

  • Drake2078Drake2078 Posts: 679 ★★★
    I got 6300 shards. Personally, I would like Kabam to have more offers that include Tier 5 class...Selectable....shards.
    And yes, I would still feel the same way if I had received less shards
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 4,724 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DrZola said:

    DrZola said:

    There are no Drop Rates when the Crystal guarantees what's in it. The Crystal contains 25% of whatever Class you select. There's no chance of pulling something else. 100%.

    *5%
    Damn. My eyes skipped to the 25%. You're right.
    Hmm....I guess technically it gives Frags 100%. I can see the confusion though.
    Why don’t premium crystals/cavaliers etc not say 100% chance for a champion? It’s semantics, there is a difference in value, that’s why the percentage of t5cc should have separate odds.
    But it's not. It's T5CC. Prem hero crystals list of the chance at each rarity. Not for each champ in that rarity. If you buy a 4* crystal offer, it's 100% chance at a 4 * champion.

    You have a 100% to get T5cc frags.

    Goldpool crystals don't show drop rates for the different amounts of gold either. Again, as much hate as you all toss at Kabam, they don't break the law. Why would they purposefully set themselves up for lawsuits?
    I wouldn’t pretend to know the legal technicalities of phone game offers.

    But it fascinates me—in a world where labeling disclosure is so tightly regulated and we can know down to the calorie or gram what we (or even our pets) are consuming, where the efficacy of a countertop battery-operated LED holiday light requires multi-jurisdictional disclosure about carcinogens, proper operation, maintenance, fire risks and much more, and where even a simple plastic bag used as product packaging carries warning labels—that some people are willing to accept and defend the bare minimum from certain sectors.

    Dr. Zola
    I don't pretend to know the legal technicalities either. But I do know that big dollar companies go out of their way to not lose profits by legal mistakes like an in game offer.

    Whether you accept that Kabam is doing the bare minimum or not, doing the bare minimum isn't wrong. The the loot box guidelines do not state they don't have to list drop rates for amounts, Kabam isn't obligated to list them. These T5CC crystals aren't the only ones that do this. All gold crystals do this as well yet no one's on here complaining about those and they've been in the game for years. Yes you can spend them on game earned units and not real cash but the 3 day offer that included Pools Gold crystals don't list the different amounts of gold either.

    You can not buy the offer and that sends the biggest message to a company anyway. Besides, aside from a few of us, how many in this community is going to believe the drops rates if they list them? Tons of crazies on here already subscribe to the conspiracy of the "patent" being in the game. No one believes that in a 4/5/6* crystal, champions have the same chance to be pulled.

    With as many uneducated, conspiracy believing nutjobs as there are in this community, I'd do the bare minimum as well.
    Sure. And I’ve got no reason to think anyone is doing anything that doesn’t comply with whatever regulations apply here.

    But...I’d list the drop rates for all those other cash-based crystals as well, regardless of whether it was specifically, legally required.

    Maybe a step towards further marginalizing said conspiracy believing nut jobs (who are going to exist regardless) would be to actually just list the rates?

    It’s perhaps an additional few dozen characters in the description (at most) and I’m confident the team knows them. And then there wouldn’t be any need for anyone to defend hiding cash offer drop rates as a general practice.

    Dr. Zola
    I don't disagree with your viewpoint at all but I don't think listing the drop rates will satisfy anyone who's already invested more money than what the offer costs in tinfoil.
    Probably right. It’s just a shame a company with a big name game doesn’t decide to lead on this issue.

    If there’s any justification beyond concealing how disadvantageous the odds really are, I’m happy to listen with an open-mind.

    Dr. Zola
    I have never asked Kabam, so I don't know what their specific justification is. But I once asked a game developer of a triple-AAA MMO why they didn't disclose certain other numbers in their game, and the simplified version of the answer was that when you give numbers, players focus on the numbers, and they think in terms of math. When you don't give numbers, players cannot focus on numbers and instead have to focus on the experience of the game instead. Giving numbers unavoidably alters players' perceptions of what the game is even about on a deep and perhaps even subconscious level.

    It is possible that the issue with giving odds is not specifically to conceal how low they are, especially because people already believe the odds to be disadvantageous already, but rather to take away any ability to measure the value objectively at all, and force players to judge the value of things subjectively. You don't want people to decide whether to buy Doritos on the basis of calorie count, you want them to decide whether to buy Doritos on the basis of cheesy goodness.

    It is worth noting that now with the Apple rules, Kabam does disclose odds, and because of the offers covered by the rule it is often the offers that contain the most "disadvantageous" odds that they are disclosing. In other words, even though Kabam is disclosing the odds you'd expect them to want to conceal already if the objective was to hide really tiny odds, they still hide the odds of things they aren't required to disclose where the odds are relatively moderate anyway.
    If that’s the case (and I would be surprised if it isn’t), then I consider it no different from any other cynical marketing ploy.

    Dr. Zola
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    If Kabam can't be bothered to put in the drop rates for the amount of fragments, I'm always gonna assume the worst possible outcome and just skip it. Let's face it, when you gamble, you usually lose. And if you don't even know the odds, how can you really know if you've really won? If this was a good deal, the drop rates would be there, no questions asked.

    If this was a flat 10% deal, or if a 10% fragment had at least a 50% chance, I would have bought it. With no way of knowing, it might as well be considered a pure 5% offer and not worth the cost for me at that price.

    The more we put up with these and buy them, the more Kabam will keep testing the waters with devalued and obscure offers to make a short term profit.

    Save your money and show them the deal sucks... unless you absolutely need just 5% or just don't care enough about what $40 could avtually get you in this game or be better spent IRL.

    What in Kabams history leads you to believe that if the offer was "good" the drop rates would have been shown? Please cite that offer that shows this to be true. Remember, needs to be the same type of offer. I'll wait.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    I’m not bothering with it even though I’m only 900 frags off from r3ing Ghost. If they show the drop rates of each percentage, I might.
    Either way, it seriously irritates when they follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

    Wow. Yes, irritating when people follow the law. Maybe in the spirit of Kabams ToS, they shouldn't ban hackers, modders and mercs right? They should put gifting events back to the way they were before 2 years ago. Spirit of the law says Kabam doesn't have to question where the money comes from right?
    Oh please, get off it. You know full well that the only reason why they didn’t post the drop rates is because they think that it’ll discourage people from buying it.
    Actually, I've never sat down with a veteran monetization professional and asked this question, but I suspect it is not for something as simple as this, given the answer to a tangentially related question tends to be very complex: why don't most game developers disclose their game mechanics in full?
    I’ve studied enough economics and done enough marketing to feel confident in saying that if information is withheld from a product, it is because it either isn’t relevant to the consumer or because it it will diminish the likelihood of purchase. Since the drop rates are very much relevant to the consumer, I’m left to believe that it’s being withheld because they think it’ll have a negative impact on their sales.
    Of course, I’m open to other explanations.
    Maybe in an ultimate sense, but not always in an easy to trace direct sense. For example, consider Apple. Apple rarely talks about the numbers surrounding their products. They don't give specific scores or measurements. Is that because they think they will lose sales if they disclose those? I don't think that is true, at least not directly. I think they don't talk about those numbers because they don't want customers to be thinking about those numbers. If you take those numbers away, consumers have to compare Apple to competitors based on other factors. And Apple thinks they have a much higher advantage over competitors if consumers are thinking about subjective criteria.

    So it might all be about selling more product in the end, but it might not be a simple case of "if we give out this number it will hurt our sales." It could be a lot more strategic: if we don't give out this number we can't be compared to our competitors on the basis of that number, and in fact it may cause consumers to stop caring about that number at all, since they can't use it to evaluate us. And that lets us shift the playing field to one where we have a much better advantage.
    Apple doesn’t give out those numbers because it’s not relevant to their customers’ decision to buy their product. It’s unnecessary info, that’s why it’s excluded not because they think customers won’t buy it because of the numbers.
    Those numbers are not relevant to customer decisions because they don’t have them, so they cannot use them to form decisions by definition. But you’re wrong that they don’t give out numbers because numbers are not relevant to their customers decisions, because Apple does give out numbers in very specific strategic situations. And you can’t say Apple only gives out numbers when they are relevant, because that is a tautology.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,762 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    I’m not bothering with it even though I’m only 900 frags off from r3ing Ghost. If they show the drop rates of each percentage, I might.
    Either way, it seriously irritates when they follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

    Wow. Yes, irritating when people follow the law. Maybe in the spirit of Kabams ToS, they shouldn't ban hackers, modders and mercs right? They should put gifting events back to the way they were before 2 years ago. Spirit of the law says Kabam doesn't have to question where the money comes from right?
    Oh please, get off it. You know full well that the only reason why they didn’t post the drop rates is because they think that it’ll discourage people from buying it.
    Actually, I've never sat down with a veteran monetization professional and asked this question, but I suspect it is not for something as simple as this, given the answer to a tangentially related question tends to be very complex: why don't most game developers disclose their game mechanics in full?
    I’ve studied enough economics and done enough marketing to feel confident in saying that if information is withheld from a product, it is because it either isn’t relevant to the consumer or because it it will diminish the likelihood of purchase. Since the drop rates are very much relevant to the consumer, I’m left to believe that it’s being withheld because they think it’ll have a negative impact on their sales.
    Of course, I’m open to other explanations.
    Maybe in an ultimate sense, but not always in an easy to trace direct sense. For example, consider Apple. Apple rarely talks about the numbers surrounding their products. They don't give specific scores or measurements. Is that because they think they will lose sales if they disclose those? I don't think that is true, at least not directly. I think they don't talk about those numbers because they don't want customers to be thinking about those numbers. If you take those numbers away, consumers have to compare Apple to competitors based on other factors. And Apple thinks they have a much higher advantage over competitors if consumers are thinking about subjective criteria.

    So it might all be about selling more product in the end, but it might not be a simple case of "if we give out this number it will hurt our sales." It could be a lot more strategic: if we don't give out this number we can't be compared to our competitors on the basis of that number, and in fact it may cause consumers to stop caring about that number at all, since they can't use it to evaluate us. And that lets us shift the playing field to one where we have a much better advantage.
    Apple doesn’t give out those numbers because it’s not relevant to their customers’ decision to buy their product. It’s unnecessary info, that’s why it’s excluded not because they think customers won’t buy it because of the numbers.
    Those numbers are not relevant to customer decisions because they don’t have them, so they cannot use them to form decisions by definition. But you’re wrong that they don’t give out numbers because numbers are not relevant to their customers decisions, because Apple does give out numbers in very specific strategic situations. And you can’t say Apple only gives out numbers when they are relevant, because that is a tautology.
    You lost me, sorry. I was trying to say that specific measurements of apple devices don’t really have any relevance to their customers. I’m sure it does to some, but the majority of people buying apple phones are buying them because they are popular, operate smoothly, and are the best available for standard use. Most customers don’t need to know the specific measurements because they aren’t buying it with those in mind. However, the drop rates are relevant to Kabam’s customers’ decision to buy a deal or not.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 4,724 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    There are no Drop Rates when the Crystal guarantees what's in it. The Crystal contains 25% of whatever Class you select. There's no chance of pulling something else. 100%.

    *5%
    Damn. My eyes skipped to the 25%. You're right.
    Hmm....I guess technically it gives Frags 100%. I can see the confusion though.
    Why don’t premium crystals/cavaliers etc not say 100% chance for a champion? It’s semantics, there is a difference in value, that’s why the percentage of t5cc should have separate odds.
    But it's not. It's T5CC. Prem hero crystals list of the chance at each rarity. Not for each champ in that rarity. If you buy a 4* crystal offer, it's 100% chance at a 4 * champion.

    You have a 100% to get T5cc frags.

    Goldpool crystals don't show drop rates for the different amounts of gold either. Again, as much hate as you all toss at Kabam, they don't break the law. Why would they purposefully set themselves up for lawsuits?
    I wouldn’t pretend to know the legal technicalities of phone game offers.

    But it fascinates me—in a world where labeling disclosure is so tightly regulated and we can know down to the calorie or gram what we (or even our pets) are consuming, where the efficacy of a countertop battery-operated LED holiday light requires multi-jurisdictional disclosure about carcinogens, proper operation, maintenance, fire risks and much more, and where even a simple plastic bag used as product packaging carries warning labels—that some people are willing to accept and defend the bare minimum from certain sectors.

    Dr. Zola
    We have a saying in engineering: code is written in blood.

    If you are a licensed and practicing engineer of some kind, your professional life is governed by professional codes: building codes, safety codes, operational codes. When you say "code" to an engineer, you evoke the mental image of a giant book of rules.

    It isn't literally true, but it is true enough that you can probably trace every rule in that big book of rules to a pile of corpses. People die, and then after the fact people demand action, and then someone makes a specific rule to prevent that specific thing from happening again. We have food safety laws in the United States only after too many people died to unscrupulous people lacing candy with arsenic. We have drug safety laws in the United States because too many people were dying to lunatic concoctions we would today describe as rat poison. In the modern era, we add the additional step of tort. First people die, then people sue, *then* we get a new rule partially to prevent more people dying, and partially to indemnify corporations from getting sued again. That's why my lawnmower has specific rules stuck to it to not adjust cutting blades while it is running, and not to refuel indoors.

    In the United States, if you can't point to a giant pile of bodies or a check with a large number of zeros, it is unlikely there's a rule governing that thing. Because rules are expensive, and they are always written in blood.
    That’s probably true of some rules and regulations, but not all.

    Have you ever been in an actual law library? Because the reams upon reams of paper in a law library would suggest something a little different (even if much of it today is digitized).

    Regulators love to regulate. Which means writing rules. And rewriting them. I can still recall the long hours I used to spend in a former employer’s library room reserved for nothing but the print versions of federal regulations.

    They filled the room, floor to ceiling. And one of the librarians was busy removing the old copies and shelving the new ones, weekly if not more frequently.

    That was one room reserved mainly for federal regulatory law. There were, of course, other rooms.

    All that only serves to say that there are plenty of regulators who are eager to regulate. It doesn’t always take blood or money.

    Which begs the question of why some spaces—especially the digital ones—benefit from a relatively light regulatory touch.

    Dr. Zola
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,762 ★★★★★
    On a related note, I just opened the free 5% from the TB calendar and formed my first tech t5cc! Ghost is going up next week!
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,370 ★★★★★

    On a related note, I just opened the free 5% from the TB calendar and formed my first tech t5cc! Ghost is going up next week!

    Nice! Saved yourself $40 there!! Congrats :)
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    I’m not bothering with it even though I’m only 900 frags off from r3ing Ghost. If they show the drop rates of each percentage, I might.
    Either way, it seriously irritates when they follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

    Wow. Yes, irritating when people follow the law. Maybe in the spirit of Kabams ToS, they shouldn't ban hackers, modders and mercs right? They should put gifting events back to the way they were before 2 years ago. Spirit of the law says Kabam doesn't have to question where the money comes from right?
    Oh please, get off it. You know full well that the only reason why they didn’t post the drop rates is because they think that it’ll discourage people from buying it.
    Actually, I've never sat down with a veteran monetization professional and asked this question, but I suspect it is not for something as simple as this, given the answer to a tangentially related question tends to be very complex: why don't most game developers disclose their game mechanics in full?
    I’ve studied enough economics and done enough marketing to feel confident in saying that if information is withheld from a product, it is because it either isn’t relevant to the consumer or because it it will diminish the likelihood of purchase. Since the drop rates are very much relevant to the consumer, I’m left to believe that it’s being withheld because they think it’ll have a negative impact on their sales.
    Of course, I’m open to other explanations.
    Maybe in an ultimate sense, but not always in an easy to trace direct sense. For example, consider Apple. Apple rarely talks about the numbers surrounding their products. They don't give specific scores or measurements. Is that because they think they will lose sales if they disclose those? I don't think that is true, at least not directly. I think they don't talk about those numbers because they don't want customers to be thinking about those numbers. If you take those numbers away, consumers have to compare Apple to competitors based on other factors. And Apple thinks they have a much higher advantage over competitors if consumers are thinking about subjective criteria.

    So it might all be about selling more product in the end, but it might not be a simple case of "if we give out this number it will hurt our sales." It could be a lot more strategic: if we don't give out this number we can't be compared to our competitors on the basis of that number, and in fact it may cause consumers to stop caring about that number at all, since they can't use it to evaluate us. And that lets us shift the playing field to one where we have a much better advantage.
    Apple doesn’t give out those numbers because it’s not relevant to their customers’ decision to buy their product. It’s unnecessary info, that’s why it’s excluded not because they think customers won’t buy it because of the numbers.
    Those numbers are not relevant to customer decisions because they don’t have them, so they cannot use them to form decisions by definition. But you’re wrong that they don’t give out numbers because numbers are not relevant to their customers decisions, because Apple does give out numbers in very specific strategic situations. And you can’t say Apple only gives out numbers when they are relevant, because that is a tautology.
    You lost me, sorry. I was trying to say that specific measurements of apple devices don’t really have any relevance to their customers. I’m sure it does to some, but the majority of people buying apple phones are buying them because they are popular, operate smoothly, and are the best available for standard use. Most customers don’t need to know the specific measurements because they aren’t buying it with those in mind. However, the drop rates are relevant to Kabam’s customers’ decision to buy a deal or not.
    Saying Apple doesn't release or promote numbers because it isn't relevant to their customers implies a cause effect relationship that is the reverse of reality. It isn't that Apple knows that their customer base just happens to not care about numbers, so they know they don't have to hand them out. Even when it is patently true that their customers care about numbers and even when it provably affects their purchasing decisions, Apple *still* doesn't promote those numbers. Because Apple doesn't attempt to compete on those numbers, they curate their own customer base to be the set of people who are willing to purchase Apple products on the basis of other criteria. Apple doesn't omit numbers because their customers don't want them, they omit them regardless of whether their customers want them, and let their customers decide if that's tolerable.

    This is relevant to things like lootboxes, because when you say performance numbers aren't relevant to Apple customers, that's a general statement. Of course it is, or would be relevant to many of them if they knew what they were. Even if they wouldn't switch completely out of the Apple ecosystem, numbers would still matter to their decisions about which Apple products to buy. Of course, most people wouldn't use those numbers, or even know what to do with them. But how is that different from drop odds? I've been an advocate for releasing those numbers, and in fact all game mechanical documentation, from the very start. But that's because I think players *deserve* that information, not because I actually think more than a tiny percentage of players would actually use it.

    In fact I cannot honestly say that I know for certain that such documentation wouldn't mislead more players that it educated. I don't advocate transparency on the basis of net benefit. I advocate for it because everyone should have the opportunity to use it, whether they are qualified to do so or not.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,762 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    I’m not bothering with it even though I’m only 900 frags off from r3ing Ghost. If they show the drop rates of each percentage, I might.
    Either way, it seriously irritates when they follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

    Wow. Yes, irritating when people follow the law. Maybe in the spirit of Kabams ToS, they shouldn't ban hackers, modders and mercs right? They should put gifting events back to the way they were before 2 years ago. Spirit of the law says Kabam doesn't have to question where the money comes from right?
    Oh please, get off it. You know full well that the only reason why they didn’t post the drop rates is because they think that it’ll discourage people from buying it.
    Actually, I've never sat down with a veteran monetization professional and asked this question, but I suspect it is not for something as simple as this, given the answer to a tangentially related question tends to be very complex: why don't most game developers disclose their game mechanics in full?
    I’ve studied enough economics and done enough marketing to feel confident in saying that if information is withheld from a product, it is because it either isn’t relevant to the consumer or because it it will diminish the likelihood of purchase. Since the drop rates are very much relevant to the consumer, I’m left to believe that it’s being withheld because they think it’ll have a negative impact on their sales.
    Of course, I’m open to other explanations.
    Maybe in an ultimate sense, but not always in an easy to trace direct sense. For example, consider Apple. Apple rarely talks about the numbers surrounding their products. They don't give specific scores or measurements. Is that because they think they will lose sales if they disclose those? I don't think that is true, at least not directly. I think they don't talk about those numbers because they don't want customers to be thinking about those numbers. If you take those numbers away, consumers have to compare Apple to competitors based on other factors. And Apple thinks they have a much higher advantage over competitors if consumers are thinking about subjective criteria.

    So it might all be about selling more product in the end, but it might not be a simple case of "if we give out this number it will hurt our sales." It could be a lot more strategic: if we don't give out this number we can't be compared to our competitors on the basis of that number, and in fact it may cause consumers to stop caring about that number at all, since they can't use it to evaluate us. And that lets us shift the playing field to one where we have a much better advantage.
    Apple doesn’t give out those numbers because it’s not relevant to their customers’ decision to buy their product. It’s unnecessary info, that’s why it’s excluded not because they think customers won’t buy it because of the numbers.
    Those numbers are not relevant to customer decisions because they don’t have them, so they cannot use them to form decisions by definition. But you’re wrong that they don’t give out numbers because numbers are not relevant to their customers decisions, because Apple does give out numbers in very specific strategic situations. And you can’t say Apple only gives out numbers when they are relevant, because that is a tautology.
    You lost me, sorry. I was trying to say that specific measurements of apple devices don’t really have any relevance to their customers. I’m sure it does to some, but the majority of people buying apple phones are buying them because they are popular, operate smoothly, and are the best available for standard use. Most customers don’t need to know the specific measurements because they aren’t buying it with those in mind. However, the drop rates are relevant to Kabam’s customers’ decision to buy a deal or not.
    Saying Apple doesn't release or promote numbers because it isn't relevant to their customers implies a cause effect relationship that is the reverse of reality. It isn't that Apple knows that their customer base just happens to not care about numbers, so they know they don't have to hand them out. Even when it is patently true that their customers care about numbers and even when it provably affects their purchasing decisions, Apple *still* doesn't promote those numbers. Because Apple doesn't attempt to compete on those numbers, they curate their own customer base to be the set of people who are willing to purchase Apple products on the basis of other criteria. Apple doesn't omit numbers because their customers don't want them, they omit them regardless of whether their customers want them, and let their customers decide if that's tolerable.

    This is relevant to things like lootboxes, because when you say performance numbers aren't relevant to Apple customers, that's a general statement. Of course it is, or would be relevant to many of them if they knew what they were. Even if they wouldn't switch completely out of the Apple ecosystem, numbers would still matter to their decisions about which Apple products to buy. Of course, most people wouldn't use those numbers, or even know what to do with them. But how is that different from drop odds? I've been an advocate for releasing those numbers, and in fact all game mechanical documentation, from the very start. But that's because I think players *deserve* that information, not because I actually think more than a tiny percentage of players would actually use it.

    In fact I cannot honestly say that I know for certain that such documentation wouldn't mislead more players that it educated. I don't advocate transparency on the basis of net benefit. I advocate for it because everyone should have the opportunity to use it, whether they are qualified to do so or not.
    I see, that makes sense. Once again you’ve opened my mind lol. Always happy to read your posts.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    The more we put up with these and buy them, the more Kabam will keep testing the waters with devalued and obscure offers to make a short term profit.

    I'm not sure what you think Kabam is "testing" but these kinds of offers have been the bread and butter of F2P microtransaction supported games since the concept of such was invented. And this is not short term profit either: these kinds of offers have generated sustained multiyear profit for the game that has been increasing year after year for years.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    If Kabam can't be bothered to put in the drop rates for the amount of fragments, I'm always gonna assume the worst possible outcome and just skip it. Let's face it, when you gamble, you usually lose. And if you don't even know the odds, how can you really know if you've really won? If this was a good deal, the drop rates would be there, no questions asked.

    If this was a flat 10% deal, or if a 10% fragment had at least a 50% chance, I would have bought it. With no way of knowing, it might as well be considered a pure 5% offer and not worth the cost for me at that price.

    The more we put up with these and buy them, the more Kabam will keep testing the waters with devalued and obscure offers to make a short term profit.

    Save your money and show them the deal sucks... unless you absolutely need just 5% or just don't care enough about what $40 could avtually get you in this game or be better spent IRL.

    What in Kabams history leads you to believe that if the offer was "good" the drop rates would have been shown? Please cite that offer that shows this to be true. Remember, needs to be the same type of offer. I'll wait.
    It's common sense. I don't expect you to understand. I'm not working for you so you can site the contrary if you can offer Kabam statistics. I'm not anti Kabam, bit I am anti **** deals that cost real money and don't share drop rates.
    There's nothing to cite. This is literally the first time this has been offered. Every offer in the past, good or bad, has had drop rates but nothing like this has been offered. So what you said has no basis.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    Oh, and it's part of the MCOC blog about being transparent @Demonzfyre. But common sense should be used too as a consumer, at least the consumers who possess that ability anyway.

    https://playcontestofchampions.com/mcoc-drop-rates/



    This is a crystal being sold for real money, no?


    They gave you the drop rate. 100% T5cc. That's all they're required to tell you. So they are being transparent.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    Oh, and it's part of the MCOC blog about being transparent @Demonzfyre. But common sense should be used too as a consumer, at least the consumers who possess that ability anyway.

    https://playcontestofchampions.com/mcoc-drop-rates/



    This is a crystal being sold for real money, no?




    You're buying a T5CC fragment crystal. You're guaranteed to get T5CC fragments. Gold crystals say 100% chance for gold and there's a minimum of 15k gold that drops. Where's all the keyboard warriors wanting their justice for the gold crystals that have been in the game for years. Oh, it's not T5CC so you don't care. Got it.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,370 ★★★★★
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/57450/drop-rates-not-shown#latest

    Again, this was talked about when it first came out. Didn’t get an answer from kabam ever.

    The difference is, a gold crystal costs 20 units, people rarely buy gold crystals, there are tons of places to get gold

    T5cc is rare, it is an endgame resource and is being sold for real money. That is why people don’t care as much about the gold. It’s not something kabam is literally selling for $40 (yes I’m aware gold can be bought with 40 dollars worth of units, but as there is no gold offer for purely gold, it is not a comparison that can be made)
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    Read the next paragraph bud. Nice try.

    My god. I know what it says. They literally did that. You are buy a crystal that contains T5CC fragments. You are 100% guaranteed to get T5CC fragments.

    You buy a gold crystal. You are 100% guaranteed to get gold. The drop rate says 100% to get gold. They listed the drop rates just like they said they would.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    Oh, and it's part of the MCOC blog about being transparent @Demonzfyre. But common sense should be used too as a consumer, at least the consumers who possess that ability anyway.

    https://playcontestofchampions.com/mcoc-drop-rates/



    This is a crystal being sold for real money, no?


    They gave you the drop rate. 100% T5cc. That's all they're required to tell you. So they are being transparent.
    The Apple developer guideline specifies that the odds should be shown for every "type" of drop. However, the intent of the rule was to allow players buying lootboxes to have some idea what the average value of the lootbox was. The problem was that lootboxes were being advertised as "potentially" containing high value rewards, without specifying the odds for obtaining them might be astronomically low. Apple crafted a loose rule that says "type" to indicate different rewards of radically different value.

    However, rewards of the same quote unquote "type" but with dramatically different quantities is also a case where the "high value reward" could have arbitrarily low odds even though it is the same "type" as another reward that is more common. I'm pretty sure the game developers (of all games) know this, and are choosing to interpret the language in the manner most advantageous to themselves rather than honor the spirit of the rule.

    You can argue that they have every right to do this, and they do, but if they do they should not expect any sympathy from their customers when Apple uses the same letter of the law against them, which they occasionally do randomly and capriciously. But always within the letter of the law.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/57450/drop-rates-not-shown#latest

    Again, this was talked about when it first came out. Didn’t get an answer from kabam ever.

    The difference is, a gold crystal costs 20 units, people rarely buy gold crystals, there are tons of places to get gold

    T5cc is rare, it is an endgame resource and is being sold for real money. That is why people don’t care as much about the gold. It’s not something kabam is literally selling for $40 (yes I’m aware gold can be bought with 40 dollars worth of units, but as there is no gold offer for purely gold, it is not a comparison that can be made)

    Both crystals offer the same set up. Get x amount of gold with the minimum being 15k for Thronebreakers.

    Get x amount of T5cc for the offer but it's not the only thing you're getting.

    It's literally the same thing. The type of resource doesn't matter.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,370 ★★★★★

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/57450/drop-rates-not-shown#latest

    Again, this was talked about when it first came out. Didn’t get an answer from kabam ever.

    The difference is, a gold crystal costs 20 units, people rarely buy gold crystals, there are tons of places to get gold

    T5cc is rare, it is an endgame resource and is being sold for real money. That is why people don’t care as much about the gold. It’s not something kabam is literally selling for $40 (yes I’m aware gold can be bought with 40 dollars worth of units, but as there is no gold offer for purely gold, it is not a comparison that can be made)

    Both crystals offer the same set up. Get x amount of gold with the minimum being 15k for Thronebreakers.

    Get x amount of T5cc for the offer but it's not the only thing you're getting.

    It's literally the same thing. The type of resource doesn't matter.
    And we are saying that is wrong. Both of the examples you’re giving are wrong.

    The point of disclosing drop rates is to discourage gambling loot boxes, saying you have 100% chance of getting an item, while weighting the higher quantities at a lower percentage is the sort of thing that caused the drop rates to be disclosed in the first place.

    We all know kabam are within the law doing this, but it is more than that. Laws are not everything. The point of disclosing drop rates is to inform people on what they are buying.

    Nobody cares about some gold crystal, disclose the drop rates for those as well while you’re at it. But disclose the drop rates for real cash offers. To not do so is going against the spirit of loot box gambling regulations.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★

    This is taken straight from apple-
    https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase
    Disclose the odds of each type of item. There's 1 type of item, the odds are 100%. Apple states "type of item". That's not a gray area. That's not a loose term. 5% T5CC vs 25% T5CC isn't a different item. It's the same item in different increments.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,445 ★★★★★


    Oh, and it's part of the MCOC blog about being transparent @Demonzfyre. But common sense should be used too as a consumer, at least the consumers who possess that ability anyway.

    https://playcontestofchampions.com/mcoc-drop-rates/



    This is a crystal being sold for real money, no?




    You're buying a T5CC fragment crystal. You're guaranteed to get T5CC fragments. Gold crystals say 100% chance for gold and there's a minimum of 15k gold that drops. Where's all the keyboard warriors wanting their justice for the gold crystals that have been in the game for years. Oh, it's not T5CC so you don't care. Got it.
    You got it. I don't care.

    I'm keeping my money and gonna advocate all the smart people do the same. You do you though, cause you don't so we'll

    If Kabam wants more money (mine included).... no real drop rates, no spend.

    Buyers beware. Or listen to @Demonzfyre sage advice. It's your money and Kabam needs it. We need better drop rates and more transparency as their goal is far from being met.


    SMH. Read above. Apple is pretty clear on what they said. By all means. Keep posting the same thing over and over again like it's going to mean something different the next time. They were as transparent as they needed to be. Just not what you wanted them to be.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian


    This is taken straight from apple-
    https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase
    Disclose the odds of each type of item. There's 1 type of item, the odds are 100%. Apple states "type of item". That's not a gray area. That's not a loose term. 5% T5CC vs 25% T5CC isn't a different item. It's the same item in different increments.

    This was discussed back then on the Apple developer forums. The consensus was that "type of item" was not to be taken as literally as you seem to be willing to do, because if you take type of item literally, every game company has a loophole you could drive a truck through. All you had to do was have the lootbox contain only one "type" of item, a special reward box that itself contained a random set of items. Since every lootbox contained only the same type of item, they would only need to state that the lootbox has a 100% chance to drop that type of item. And since the intermediate reward boxes could not be directly purchased via the in-app purchase mechanism, they were not subject to the disclosure requirement.

    Most developers concluded that this was rules-lawyering, and also that Apple just loves it when developers try to outsmart them.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 4,724 ★★★★★
    I’d tend to think there’s plenty of wiggle room around interpreting the term “item”—just a wild guess.

    Dr. Zola
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,370 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:


    This is taken straight from apple-
    https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase
    Disclose the odds of each type of item. There's 1 type of item, the odds are 100%. Apple states "type of item". That's not a gray area. That's not a loose term. 5% T5CC vs 25% T5CC isn't a different item. It's the same item in different increments.

    This was discussed back then on the Apple developer forums. The consensus was that "type of item" was not to be taken as literally as you seem to be willing to do, because if you take type of item literally, every game company has a loophole you could drive a truck through. All you had to do was have the lootbox contain only one "type" of item, a special reward box that itself contained a random set of items. Since every lootbox contained only the same type of item, they would only need to state that the lootbox has a 100% chance to drop that type of item. And since the intermediate reward boxes could not be directly purchased via the in-app purchase mechanism, they were not subject to the disclosure requirement.

    Most developers concluded that this was rules-lawyering, and also that Apple just loves it when developers try to outsmart them.
    Exactly, Kabam could say that a champion is considered an item, so what if they have a different quantity of stars? Why should they publish drop rates for cavaliers?

    It’s to stop the gambling loot box experience. And it should apply here as well.
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