I took Tigra into the tier 8 side quest and the node states that you will get a power gain when you place a debuff on the defender, after stacking up to 9 ruptures I found out that this isn't the case lol.
Don't try to use Tigra for this fight
Tigra doesn't have any buffs so you can't do damage with rupture.
You get buffs when u inflict a damaging debuff as per the node
I have a headache from facepalms tonight. There are 3 nodes- Buffed Up- 3+ Buffs needed to do damage. Strength in Numbers- don't have dead people on your roster or you'll lose ability accuracy. Power Draw- Damaging debuffs give you defensive power gain buffs of 10% for 10 seconds.
IF YOU DON"T HAVE 3 BUFFS ON YOU, YOU CAN'T DO DAMAGE. Tigra has no natural buffs on her which means buffed up is preventing any debuff (rupture) from doing damage which means power draw can't activate because there's no damage coming from the debuffs.
Um no damaging debuffs are a type of classified debuffs it doesn’t matter if they do damage. For actual proof just watch sunspot vs Odin
A damaging debuff causes damage. Buffed up prevents damage. If there's no damage because you don't have 3 buffs, it's no longer a damaging debuff.
You really dont like admitting when you are wrong do you? Makes for great entertainment tho so keep going
Read the comment above this one. No MOD has confirmed either way. I just said i'll happily come back here and say I was wrong. I've done it in the past and i'll do it in the future.
Pretty sure it is bugged since Sunspot was working earlier and now he isn’t.
I don't know. If I'm interpreting it wrong, cool. If not, cool. It's bugged either way and i'll leave it at that. At this point I don't care and hope they fix it to whatever it's supposed to be. I'm out.
there’s a mod response from Boo. Not totally confirming if it is an issue or not but it’s a step towards confirmation
They should also look into this interaction of tigra. Whether her neutralize can prevent buffs from triggering on herself due to opponents abilities too.
Neutralize reduces the ability accuracy of buffs, even if those buffs are going to be triggered on you and not the opponent from the opponents node or ability. Because of this, Tigra can't gain Power Gain buffs from Power Draw. It's not because Rupture isn't DOT, but because of Neutralize.
I have never used Tigra, but her spotlight says it only prevents buffs triggering on the opponent. Can someone who has used her confirm this?
This clarification was from her dev. A similar place to test this is against the Icarus node, or the Muscle Wizard Node. She prevents both of these nodes from giving her Buffs because it's preventing the ability accuracy of the buffs the opponents tries to place on themself and on the attacker.
Thanks, odd that they have not updated that anywhere else. kabam should update champion ability in the game too if that is the case.
Why ? It's not an extra Ability or unknown interaction. Just something that seems off but is perfectly logical for said abilties
When the description says it prevents buffs on opponents, while in game it prevents buffs on both attacker and defender, its not off. It's not working correctly. But, if that is how she was supposed to work, then it has to reflect in her description. I don't know how you say this is logical.
Does it say "on oppoents"? Then it should be changed.
It does say on opponents. My comment keeps going to approval.
Tigra’s Attacks Neutralize the Opponent, preventing them from gaining Buffs. If the Opponent fails to gain a Buff through Chance while Neutralize is active, it is removed and replaced with Rupture, dealing Physical Damage.
It is possible it might have said that in the past, but that's not what it says now:
I believe Kabam has been reviewing descriptions of abilities where it used to say things "don't happen" and clarify the specifics of how that actually happens, based on player feedback about ambiguous descriptions. In this case, it now states what is actually happening, which is that Tigra's Neutralize reduces buff ability accuracy. This prevents the opponent from triggering any kind of buff, regardless of the nature of the buff (or its beneficiary).
Let me get this right. The description means that when fighting with tigra, I cannot gain any buff when the opponent is neutralized? Does this mean I cannot gain the precision buff from dexing if the opponent is neutralized? Or is it just from any action on or due to the opponent? For example, Ebony maw places a fury buff on you if there is no fury on you when he fires his sp1. If he is neutralized, will this prevent the fury being placed on me? That seems like a cool interaction.
Also, since it only reduces ability accuracy, does this mean this ability is useless when fighting Force of will nodes?
What that description means is if the target of Neutralize has any ability that triggers a buff, the chance to trigger that buff is reduced by 100 percentage points. In this case the target of Neutralize has an ability - Power Draw - that triggers buffs. The fact that the buffs get placed on the player and not on the AI champion is not something the game engine cares about. The defender "creates" a buff and places it on you, and it is that action that is being affected by Neutralize because it is a buff trigger.
When you trigger Dex, that is your character triggering a buff and since your champion is not affected by Neutralize your champion's ability to trigger buffs is unaffected. In the case of Ebony Maw, I believe you're correct when affected by Neutralize Ebony Maw would be unable to place that zero fury on you.
I suspect Neutralize would have no effect when the target is affected by Force of Will, but as some nodes in the game still have special case rules affecting them I wouldn't be 100% certain without testing.
I took Tigra into the tier 8 side quest and the node states that you will get a power gain when you place a debuff on the defender, after stacking up to 9 ruptures I found out that this isn't the case lol.
Don't try to use Tigra for this fight
Tigra doesn't have any buffs so you can't do damage with rupture.
You get buffs when u inflict a damaging debuff as per the node
I have a headache from facepalms tonight. There are 3 nodes- Buffed Up- 3+ Buffs needed to do damage. Strength in Numbers- don't have dead people on your roster or you'll lose ability accuracy. Power Draw- Damaging debuffs give you defensive power gain buffs of 10% for 10 seconds.
IF YOU DON"T HAVE 3 BUFFS ON YOU, YOU CAN'T DO DAMAGE. Tigra has no natural buffs on her which means buffed up is preventing any debuff (rupture) from doing damage which means power draw can't activate because there's no damage coming from the debuffs.
Um no damaging debuffs are a type of classified debuffs it doesn’t matter if they do damage. For actual proof just watch sunspot vs Odin
A damaging debuff causes damage. Buffed up prevents damage. If there's no damage because you don't have 3 buffs, it's no longer a damaging debuff.
You really dont like admitting when you are wrong do you? Makes for great entertainment tho so keep going
Read the comment above this one. No MOD has confirmed either way. I just said i'll happily come back here and say I was wrong. I've done it in the past and i'll do it in the future.
Pretty sure it is bugged since Sunspot was working earlier and now he isn’t.
I don't know. If I'm interpreting it wrong, cool. If not, cool. It's bugged either way and i'll leave it at that. At this point I don't care and hope they fix it to whatever it's supposed to be. I'm out.
there’s a mod response from Boo. Not totally confirming if it is an issue or not but it’s a step towards confirmation
They should also look into this interaction of tigra. Whether her neutralize can prevent buffs from triggering on herself due to opponents abilities too.
I think your wording contains a subtle error that frames your thinking. You think Power Draw causes buffs to trigger on you. It doesn't. It causes buffs to trigger on the defender. The buff is configured to affect you.
If you're familiar with traditional MMOs, there are character types that can apply buffs. Sometimes they can buff themselves, and sometimes they can buff their teammates. But the source of the buffs is always the caster. The caster doesn't "cause buffs to trigger on the target" in that sense. My understanding of how the MCOC game engine works is the same: Power Draw functions more or less as if the defender possessed Power Draw as an ability in their kit (as the devs would say) and it is the defender that is triggering the power draw buffs. Those buffs target the player but the "caster" that triggers the buff is the defender. And that's why Neutralize affects those buffs. From the point of view of Neutralize, buffs that apply to the defender and power draw buffs that target the player look identical.
Of course the game engine is complex and there's always odd interactions due to implementation details, but that's my understanding of the default behavior of the game engine for this type of thing. The game engine would work this way unless the devs somehow overrode that behavior.
I took Tigra into the tier 8 side quest and the node states that you will get a power gain when you place a debuff on the defender, after stacking up to 9 ruptures I found out that this isn't the case lol.
Don't try to use Tigra for this fight
Tigra doesn't have any buffs so you can't do damage with rupture.
You get buffs when u inflict a damaging debuff as per the node
I have a headache from facepalms tonight. There are 3 nodes- Buffed Up- 3+ Buffs needed to do damage. Strength in Numbers- don't have dead people on your roster or you'll lose ability accuracy. Power Draw- Damaging debuffs give you defensive power gain buffs of 10% for 10 seconds.
IF YOU DON"T HAVE 3 BUFFS ON YOU, YOU CAN'T DO DAMAGE. Tigra has no natural buffs on her which means buffed up is preventing any debuff (rupture) from doing damage which means power draw can't activate because there's no damage coming from the debuffs.
Um no damaging debuffs are a type of classified debuffs it doesn’t matter if they do damage. For actual proof just watch sunspot vs Odin
A damaging debuff causes damage. Buffed up prevents damage. If there's no damage because you don't have 3 buffs, it's no longer a damaging debuff.
You really dont like admitting when you are wrong do you? Makes for great entertainment tho so keep going
Read the comment above this one. No MOD has confirmed either way. I just said i'll happily come back here and say I was wrong. I've done it in the past and i'll do it in the future.
Pretty sure it is bugged since Sunspot was working earlier and now he isn’t.
I don't know. If I'm interpreting it wrong, cool. If not, cool. It's bugged either way and i'll leave it at that. At this point I don't care and hope they fix it to whatever it's supposed to be. I'm out.
For future reference, debuff is a debuff only because it is "flagged " so in game. It does not actually matter what it does or if it does anything at all. Same goes for buffs. Vodoos Loa and MantThings pustules aren't buffs by any logic other than that they are flagged so in game. Same goes for DOT debuffs. It's just a flag. It does not matter if it actually deals damage.
That's correct. In fact, this is the fundamental reason why there are no "passive buffs" in the game. An effect is a passive if it has the passive flag. It is a buff if it has the buff flag. The flags are mutually exclusive, either because the game engine makes them so or because the developers use them that way by design rule, and either way that means if it is a buff it is not a passive, and if it is a passive it is not a buff.
I took Tigra into the tier 8 side quest and the node states that you will get a power gain when you place a debuff on the defender, after stacking up to 9 ruptures I found out that this isn't the case lol.
Don't try to use Tigra for this fight
Tigra doesn't have any buffs so you can't do damage with rupture.
You get buffs when u inflict a damaging debuff as per the node
I have a headache from facepalms tonight. There are 3 nodes- Buffed Up- 3+ Buffs needed to do damage. Strength in Numbers- don't have dead people on your roster or you'll lose ability accuracy. Power Draw- Damaging debuffs give you defensive power gain buffs of 10% for 10 seconds.
IF YOU DON"T HAVE 3 BUFFS ON YOU, YOU CAN'T DO DAMAGE. Tigra has no natural buffs on her which means buffed up is preventing any debuff (rupture) from doing damage which means power draw can't activate because there's no damage coming from the debuffs.
Um no damaging debuffs are a type of classified debuffs it doesn’t matter if they do damage. For actual proof just watch sunspot vs Odin
A damaging debuff causes damage. Buffed up prevents damage. If there's no damage because you don't have 3 buffs, it's no longer a damaging debuff.
You really dont like admitting when you are wrong do you? Makes for great entertainment tho so keep going
Read the comment above this one. No MOD has confirmed either way. I just said i'll happily come back here and say I was wrong. I've done it in the past and i'll do it in the future.
Pretty sure it is bugged since Sunspot was working earlier and now he isn’t.
I don't know. If I'm interpreting it wrong, cool. If not, cool. It's bugged either way and i'll leave it at that. At this point I don't care and hope they fix it to whatever it's supposed to be. I'm out.
For future reference, debuff is a debuff only because it is "flagged " so in game. It does not actually matter what it does or if it does anything at all. Same goes for buffs. Vodoos Loa and MantThings pustules aren't buffs by any logic other than that they are flagged so in game. Same goes for DOT debuffs. It's just a flag. It does not matter if it actually deals damage.
That's correct. In fact, this is the fundamental reason why there are no "passive buffs" in the game. An effect is a passive if it has the passive flag. It is a buff if it has the buff flag. The flags are mutually exclusive, either because the game engine makes them so or because the developers use them that way by design rule, and either way that means if it is a buff it is not a passive, and if it is a passive it is not a buff.
Can help me to understand whether these two posts are correct and what is the issue? Is it not good that Powerdraw works? Thanks.
Closing out all these separate posts regarding former bug with Odin node in Tier-8, now that his Node Buffs have been changed (“Buffed Up” and “Power from Debuffs” have been removed)...
Comments
When you trigger Dex, that is your character triggering a buff and since your champion is not affected by Neutralize your champion's ability to trigger buffs is unaffected. In the case of Ebony Maw, I believe you're correct when affected by Neutralize Ebony Maw would be unable to place that zero fury on you.
I suspect Neutralize would have no effect when the target is affected by Force of Will, but as some nodes in the game still have special case rules affecting them I wouldn't be 100% certain without testing.
If you're familiar with traditional MMOs, there are character types that can apply buffs. Sometimes they can buff themselves, and sometimes they can buff their teammates. But the source of the buffs is always the caster. The caster doesn't "cause buffs to trigger on the target" in that sense. My understanding of how the MCOC game engine works is the same: Power Draw functions more or less as if the defender possessed Power Draw as an ability in their kit (as the devs would say) and it is the defender that is triggering the power draw buffs. Those buffs target the player but the "caster" that triggers the buff is the defender. And that's why Neutralize affects those buffs. From the point of view of Neutralize, buffs that apply to the defender and power draw buffs that target the player look identical.
Of course the game engine is complex and there's always odd interactions due to implementation details, but that's my understanding of the default behavior of the game engine for this type of thing. The game engine would work this way unless the devs somehow overrode that behavior.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/169368/human-torch-nova-flames-triggering-power-draw
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/204012/human-torch-nova-flames-vs-tigra-causes-power-draw-to-activate