Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.
The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.
So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.
Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.
The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.
Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.
I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.
Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.
I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.
Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.
But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”
And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.
I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.
I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.
As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊
And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.
As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.
If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.
But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.
Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?
I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?
I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.
Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.
Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.
Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want. You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on. Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
Dude did you read my post at all. I enjoy prof X, why should I rank up my 5* to have any sort of challenge with him? I don’t have a 5*, does that mean I need to target a champ I have at r3 6* because the content in the game is too easy for him.
“ If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.
But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented,” Please read this again and take in what it says. That’s why there’s an issue in no harder content being presented.
The point of this game is to collect and rank up stronger champions, what’s the point if the content is too easy for them.
Anyone who says just use weaker champions is ignoring the issue and can’t wrap their head around the fact that people want to use champions they rank up. Why get a r3 6* if people just say rank up your 4* instead. Are you even reading what you’re writing?
@abn86 your point about the length of the quest is an interesting one. I remember doing the Flare path in 7.1 and it was super fun but I just had to do a fight with each of my champs and then one champ had to go twice. The downside of the node never kicked in because the path was just over too quickly. Never had to play around it at all, so it wasn’t really much of a challenge.
Did some checking to see if I could confirm my inclinations. Checked a path in 7.1.2 (Static Blast) and it was 6 before the Rhino boss. Checked a path in 6.4.5 (vivified) and 6.4.4 (Dont go gentle) and they both came in at 9 before the boss. Three fights is for sure noticeable, not sure if that's all of it.
People think this game is Street Fighter where this game is actually Diablo. That has been the main issue plaguing us. Kabam, who developed the game, understood this (obviously) but then caved in to the Street Fighter crowd.
Act 3 Thanos tested our 3* champs, Act 4 was difficult for the rosters at that time (4* 3/30 old champs), Act 5 was difficult, Act 6 was difficult ... Act 7 is absurdly easy for the rosters of its time.
It's not just Diablo and it's not just Street Fighter because it's also part Pokemon (gotta catch 'em all) - the collection aspect. To me, you're balancing three different types of games, and as such, you get competing ideas on what makes it best. Your opinion is still an opinion, though. I very much enjoyed rocking Thanos back in the day with 3* Cap. And this was back when 4* weren't accessible like that so everyone had to bring out their big guns - which always involved Gamora, for some reason.
I love the idea of Act 6, pre-nerf, but I hated it because we all have personal RNG and mine is the worst. Or was the worst, anyway. I found a way to get better champs, I just have to pay the featured markup. Act 6 was too niche, but in perspective, it does make sense. Act 6 was the culmination of Book 1. Anytime you ever meet the Big Bad you usually got a helluva fight on your hands. You needed to think about counters constantly. A game inside a game inside the game.
My counter is that Act 7 is the beginning. Everyone saying 7.1 is too easy is right. 7.1 is the first chapter of the new book. You instinctively want to compare it with Act 6 because it immediately preceded 7, but it's more akin to Act 1. I think the foundation they set for Act 7 does allow it to get incredibly more difficult. Honestly, imo the difficult level in 7.1 is right, but the paths are short. That's what I was the most taken with. It feels like an EQ with a handful of fights and then the boss. I guess I got used to fighting for what feels like forever before I can FINALLY get to the boss. I love that it's not like some super long path, but I wouldn't mind dropping the energy/step and adding more fights.
Ok I get your point. But how long do we need to wait until act 7 gets hard? 7.2 won’t be out for a month or so, 7.3 won’t be here for half a year 7.4 maybe towards the end of the year. Is the answer to when are we getting hard content really just wait a year?
People are bored now, people want more challenging content now. And if people have to wait 1/6th of the games life so far for it to be challenging something is wrong.
I feel you. I wasn't really trying to speak on more than "act 7 is too easy".
But I agree that there needs to be challenging content. I just don't know if that challenging content should be fixed content like story. I say that because we don't have a variant difficulty on story that can become the insane/God-mode/brutal difficulty that other video games offer.
The problem is endgame means just that, end of game. If you run out of game what do you do? Honestly few options. Sit around and wait for new content to drop, or quit. And fwiw, I've put in 6 years and quite a bit of cash into this game, so I definitely understand how invested someone else could be.
But I agree with the general consensus is that the challenging content should return more often. Whether that's season of pain, the maze, mulaney's challenge or something entirely new - there should always be a new challenge. And they keep using Cav as the filter, but it should be TB. Even though there are two types of TB (new and old) they are closer to the type of endgame player that Kabam is targeting than a Cav player (and I say that as a cav waiting for my first formed t5cc)
Yeah I agree with you. I don’t mind what the challenging content is, story, variant, thronebreaker EQ, summer of pain, I don’t mind. It just needs to be somewhere and hopefully soon.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Really hoping we get either 7.2, Variant 7, or _____ of Pain next month. Past 3 months have been so dry new content wise.
One of these are coming next month!
I’m guessing 7.2. Glad to hear it! Always happy for new content. Could you maybe pass along that seasonal EQ idea to the team 🥺 I’ve grown very fond of it and would love to see it reach some design team eyes
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Nice thanks for the info. Will all this come out with the next dev diary that was teased?
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Well....we can definitely rule out summer of pain next month.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
This is amazing news. I absolutely agree that 7.1 being easier was a good call, as long as there was the challenge somewhere else.
Thanks a lot for this Miike, my mind is definitely more at ease. Looking forward to what’s in store!!
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Just want to chip in here and say that your current story content plan is a good one, and once you find your solution to the missing content for the very top players, everyone (except those that always find something to whine about) will be satisfied.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
They'll complain it is too hard, LOL.
The only way I’ll complain if it’s hard is if it’s restrictive. If there’s a bunch of nodes that have “you have to quake this” written all over it, that will not be fun. I’m looking forward to some challenging content that isn’t required to use the top 5 champions in the game. Challenge me like the grandmaster challenges me, like the best parts of act 6 challenged me.
But way to try and make something negative, congrats.
It was stupid. Too easy, only a few nodes that even required thought, otherwise you could just blast through it. The only slight restriction was energy refills - this was also not an issue as the act 6 compensation provided 20 of them that had to be used straight away.
What aspect of act6 did you find fun?
I liked the gated paths - makes you use different champs and think about your team and counters.
I liked the champion fight - except no retreat node - that was too much and made a hard/skill fight a bit of a unit grab.
6.4 in general was fun - the GM is still a great fight.
Parts of 6.3 were stupid - mysterio on poison node springs to mind and the mysterio boss were both stupid - would be easier now with some of newer champs
If you enjoy the game then learning new skills, trying new nodes and slowly working through story content as your roster grows is what it’s meant to be like.
7.1.. 2 days.. straight through, no thinking just fight after fight prob less than 10 revives on whole thing.
So fun means 1000 revives?
It’s fun when I have to stop and think and strategize and then I get to see that strategy pay off. A personal highlight for me in this game was figuring out to backdraft intercept during the final phase of the Grandmaster fight when you need to intercept rapidly to take away his unstoppable.
It is a game where I have fun after stress at work or school. So to me act 6 is a pain for a lot of busy ppl.
I mean, I did a lot of act 6 during the busiest time in my life because it was fun for me and I needed that as a release valve. We have different definitions of what is fun, that’s okay. The story content is now more in line with your definition of fun. I am also okay with that and not trying to get it changed. I and many other players are asking to see content in this game added more in line with what we consider fun. That way we can both be happy.
What you’re missing is I’m not trying to take anything away from you. I want you to continue to have Act 7 on it’s current trajectory, to have Act 6 in it’s tuned down state. I think all of these things are good for the game. But I am asking for other content for people who like the challenge and the opportunity to flex our rosters, because Act 7 is not it. You can have yours, let us have ours as well.
Most likely Variant 7 next month, 7.2 in May, and Summer of Pain in June
I agree, this makes the most sense. The problem is, while I'm personally fine with the state of variants, you can't exactly say they're catered to the kind of audience we're talking about.
Agreed. Variant content, when it was originally released, was meant to bridge the gap between Acts 5 and 6. I’d say that’s still more or less what they target in terms of difficulty, with far better rewards.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
I agree the same design philosophy should persist that was in 7.1 as a lot of those end game players tapped into their wallets and are now bored just cause they paid their way through a lot of content. Act 6 has terrible path design , the nodes combine to work against you and restrict the champion usage and sometimes even for those that have a wide roster, you cant fit all the required champ counters simply because the combination of nodes requires too many.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
7.1 was designed very well. Keep up that story content design in future chapters for sure. It would be nice to throw in some other challenge content to keep the '100% done with all content' players interested tho.
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Thank you... but please hold your ground and do not nerf it after a week when the complaints start rolling in.
Yes please don’t nerf straight away unless it’s only doable with quake.
The timeline for act 6 nerfs was good. Enough time to really realise that the content was too niche.
Great post Mike... it does not matter if only 1% of players can do it (I.e the maze) but just make it fun, and hard, and most importantly built for r3 champs!
Comments
“ If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.
But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented,”
Please read this again and take in what it says. That’s why there’s an issue in no harder content being presented.
The point of this game is to collect and rank up stronger champions, what’s the point if the content is too easy for them.
Anyone who says just use weaker champions is ignoring the issue and can’t wrap their head around the fact that people want to use champions they rank up. Why get a r3 6* if people just say rank up your 4* instead. Are you even reading what you’re writing?
Still reading through this thread, but want to address something that I think is important about Difficult Content.
Those asking for Difficult Content are right. Our most end-game of players do need difficult content, and we are aware. We took a different route with our Story Content to make it more accessible for more Summoners, and we still think that this was the right route to take, but it does leave a void for players that have extensive and mature rosters.
We are aware, and are on it! We're working on more than a few things that we're not ready to reveal just yet, but we will start sharing information in the next couple of months.
Thanks a lot for this Miike, my mind is definitely more at ease. Looking forward to what’s in store!!
But way to try and make something negative, congrats.
What you’re missing is I’m not trying to take anything away from you. I want you to continue to have Act 7 on it’s current trajectory, to have Act 6 in it’s tuned down state. I think all of these things are good for the game. But I am asking for other content for people who like the challenge and the opportunity to flex our rosters, because Act 7 is not it. You can have yours, let us have ours as well.
The timeline for act 6 nerfs was good. Enough time to really realise that the content was too niche.