New Arena Structure Feedback

N1nthcloud

I said this in my other post.
But its feedback so im saying it here.



It could be a conspiracy against FTP.

Or

Its a beta/soft launch on a new system that they are hard testing using players feedback.

We can get all conspiratorial.
But im betting its just a sloppy release.




Feedback:
Where you went wrong is you should state more clearly in advance its a soft release that you want everyones feedback on...
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Go all out
with ingame pop up notices before the launch....
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not after & only on forums
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Everyone is freaking out, the sky is falling.
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On big changes like this you need a soft release with abundantly clear notices before the roll out to people that its a soft release for feedback.
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More like how you do when you roll out new chapters and let beta testers test them out.

hungryhungrybbq

Wubbie075 said:

I've seen people say that restoring the old arenas while keeping the new ones would throw the unit economy out of whack. I've also seen defenders of the new arenas say they need the new arenas because the old ones did not offer what they were looking for. And of course, there are all the people saying it is now impossible to get the things they used to get in the old arenas.

With all this in mind, I am not seeing how restoring the old arenas and keeping the new ones will unbalance anything.

Those of us who want the old arenas back are still not going to play the new ones. I know I wouldn't.
And, unless they are lying about what they really want, it does not seem like the people who like the new arenas are going waste their time in the old arenas. Even if they wanted to, It does not seem like there is even enough time.

The only accounts that would probably benefit greatly from this are the bots, and those should be dealt with regardless of the arena structure so they are essentially irrelevant to the discussion.

Instead of limiting our choices with fewer arenas, give us more options, but make choosing each option only worthwhile if you commit to that option. Everyone gets what they want, and no one loses what they had.

Another alternative might be adding more lower level milestones in the 6* arenas, frontloading the unit awards to the lower milestones, so again, we unit grinders can get what we want, and the shard/champ grinders can get what they want.

I'm one of the folks talking about unit economy. Here's the thing, I actually agree with you. The problem will be if the developers do not. Maybe I'm wrong, and they will agree with you. Here's hoping for a good solution one way or the other soon.

Valentinos13

hungryhungrybbq said:

R_jay0027 said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

I do think that it's possible that limiting the type of, or total amount of arenas any particular player can participate in might end up being part of the solution. In order to provide every player with an arena or a set of arenas that is tuned for them. Tuned to be a fair grind for their roster. Of course, within each group, there will be entry level and more advanced rosters (relative to that group). That's just part of the game. But maybe there can be a set of arenas for each subset of players. Whether progression based or whatever. I mentioned this earlier, but it wasn't met with enthusiasm.

The biggest challenge with adding more and more arenas is that it creates the possibility for extra units to enter the economy. How do you combat that? Well, if every player has access to every arena, the only choice is to strip units or shards from all of them so the added arenas don't increase the total amount. The problem with that is it makes each particular arena less valuable. What's the other solution? Well, what Kabam tried to do was merge them all into 3. That obviously didn't work... 😂

Some are calling for a full reverse back to the previous system. While that might be a solution that works for them, it does nothing for all the players who were actually waiting for new arenas forever. And who were excited at the prospect.

What if the 3 arena system is actually viable? Except, instead of a one size fits all (which is next to impossible as we have seen), what if Summoners have 3 arenas available to THEM? Not 3 in total, but 3 that are tuned for their personal progression/roster level. Each set of 3 arenas could have it's own economy. Total units available equals X for each set of arenas. Maybe the idea for a 3 arena system wasn't a bad idea after all. Just implemented incorrectly. What this tiered arena system looks like, I'm not exactly sure, but just throwing it out there.

Or.. it could just be a "pick 3" situation. If we don't want to force anyone into a particular subset. All arenas are presented as you enter the menu. You can choose to participate in up to 3 of them. Of course, as part of the tuning/economy it might have to be predetermined sets of 3. And not select ANY 3. Cause this could again upset the unit economy and the tuning.

See now you are making it even more complex then kabam did.
The top end players need an arena or maybe even 2. Again that's all kabam had to do. Add choice and in adding choice if tmore people went after the newer arenas then it would have sorted itself out. Give people the old arenas and one new to start and if it succeeds and the better players want another thats fine as well.
But kabam basically shat on the little guy. Loyal little guys. Tough to be loyal now.

Respectfully, the part you are missing is that can't just keep adding more arenas. Because Kabam doesn't want any to increase the total amount of units available from all arenas combined. I mentioned this in the first two paragraphs of the idea as the problem that has to be solved. The only way to keep all the arenas indefinitely is to nerf the units you get from each one. Which just hurts the players. Make sense? That's why every player can't have access to every arena of the number of arenas keeps growing.

There are only 3 choices:

Nerf the units in each arena so the total is the same across all as it was before.
(This would be bad, as it would force players to grind more for the same units)

Condense the number of arenas into less, but larger arenas.
(This is what Kabam tried to do and it was awful/current system)

Limit the number of arenas any player can grind per cycle so that there is a maximum units any player can grind.
(This is what I'm proposing. This could be worked in a way that would allow each player to have an opportunity to grind in up to 3 arenas that are best tuned for success with their roster. While also letting the grind for the max allowable units if they wish.)

If there's a fourth idea, that doesn't ignore the fact that Kabam will likely never add more units to the total available, that would be great to hear.

Keep it as is, but the units be on the earlier milestones, enough to correspond to previous grinding time.. On the higher milestones add something else, maybe some 4-5 star shards or gmc shards, or something among this lines, I don't know what it will be possible to be put there

captainraymond

The removal of beginner, intermediate, and advanced players brackets in the arenas is unfair. I made a side account about a month ago so I should be in the beginner to intermediate range. Not only can I not participate in arenas for specific champs since I’m not uncollected, but now the level 60 accounts with every four star available are in the same arena as me and I can’t get good rewards from the summoner trials arena. I feel this is very unfair to new players because we don’t have as many champions and can’t get as high of scores as older accounts. I’ve also noticed a lot of cheater or fake accounts on the leaderboard. There are so many accounts with very similar names and suspicious profiles. It hurts that I might have gotten top rank rewards if these accounts had been investigated and removed, as they probably should have a LONG time ago. In conclusion, this new arena is great for accounts that have been around for five years. But for everyone else this new system sucks and needs to be fixed.

BowTieJohn

This has made the arenas only good for those with large 6* roster or those with 5*s that are 5/65. Not only that, but the death matches show up way too much. The match up between fights is clearly unbalanced and the milestone to get the featured 3*s is ridiculous. You used to get the featured 3* using 3*s for 640,000 now it requires you to reach 6,250,000 to get the featured 3* and unless you have a large enough 6* roster and all your 5*s at around rank 4 55 it is going to be difficult and defeats the purpose of their "quality of life improvements." Amazing them adding the featured 3* in the 3* arena at the final milestone was good (back in September/October last year) and then they do this.

DH_forum_1

I did all milestones in featured arena. My rank rewards were identical to what i used to get for casually scoring 9M in previous 5* featured arena. This took more of my time then before, i got less milestones, and because i had to rely on my 6* roster to get there it was mostly boring. Out of my 50 6* i have about 15 or 20 that i actually care to use because the vast majority is outdated and tedious to even use. I have dozens of rank 5 5* champs that are pretty much useless for this game mode now. What a terrible update to this system that already felt like something I HAD to do rather than something I WANTED to do. I'm F2P with exception of cyber Monday and 4th of July. I still have to explore you're terribly punishing and cruel act 6 and arena milestones makes this possible.... or at least, it used to.

Giuliameij

Oke so the final verdict after this first round, since the rank rewards are in.
I am going to ignore 3 star shards because they have absolutely no value to me.

Normally (old system)
Total rounds: 173
Total units: 470
Total battlechips: ~140k
4* shards: 1300
5* shards: 200+400+1000 = 1600
6* shards: 100

New
Total rounds: 246
Total units: 460
Total battlechips: ~160k
4* shards: 1000
5* shards: 3500
6* shards: 500

One things I must admit is I will not go for a second featured grind anymore, 10m points for 500 5 star shards is worthless

So basically I do 73 rounds more for roughly 2k 5* shards and 400 6* shards.

Guess I will just take less units and forget the second 6* arena if it only gives me 500 shards.
That would result in:

PLAN
Total rounds: 174
Total units: 340
Total battlechips: ~120k
4* shards: 1000
5* shards: 3000
6* shards: 500

Guess the shards are nice, but the units can be compared to something that is usually brown in a healthy individual.

DH_forum_1

3*, 4* and GM crystals do not replace the units I used to get. They do not make up for the extra time required or the fact that I'm left with only my terribly boring 6* roster to use for it. At least make it so that my 5* roster can fit into arena somewhere. This just doesn't make sense to me. This is the video game equivalent of having Luke Skywalker throw his lightsaber over his shoulder and expecting the audience to laugh at it LMAO

GroundedWisdom

madeofhatemcoc said:

As a new cavalier player with not that many champions, I managed to collect just 5 million points in the stadium. This corresponds to a reward of 3250 grandmaster shards and 65 units. My rank: 16634. That corresponds to 500x 5 * shards.

That should be a reward for a Cavalier who had to work like crazy to get only 5 million points in a stadium together?

This is sheer madness that you have caused with these new stages. The programmers at Kabam have no idea about the calculation. I am very upset about this incompetence

I got the same for 9 Mil, so it seems the gaps are large.

johnlaw3742

My experience with the new arenas compared to the old ones.

Pros

• - no unexpected death matches/crazy matches
  
• - easily obtained the featured 4 star champion
  
• - slight increase in ranked rewards of 6 star shard awards (+150)
  
• - another arena to use 6 star champions in (used my 6 star rank 1 champions more than previous arenas and used 5-star rank 5 champions less)
  
• - I like that there is also a 5 star basic champion to go for now which wasn't an option before. I'm only missing a few 5 stars and would likely focus my grind in this arena compared to the 6 star featured when needed.
  
• - I like that I only feel the need to grind 2x a day vs. 3x based on the cooldowns.
  

Cons

• - 100 less units and would be even less when going for the 5 star basic.
  
• - Doesn't feel worth the effort of using my 5-star rank 5 champions because the milestones are so much higher than before
  

Conclusion
The new arenas are good/better for obtaining the 5-star basic and 4-star featured champion at the cost of 100-300 units per 3-day arena cycle.

Since I have enough 4 and 5 star awakening gems, I won't need to grind for any champion twice. When you factor in the lower amount of units for about the same amount of effort, it essentially puts a unit cost on these champions. The cost is less expensive than buying cavs but more expensive than waiting and getting the champions for free from crystals.

Is the cost worth it? I think in some cases yes as I'm still missing 5 or 6-star versions of Aegon, G2099, Omega Red, Hit-Monkey and Ebony Maw but in all other cases, no - I'd rather have the units.

I like the direction that Kabam is going but they still need to work on this. I really don't want to be in this game 24x7 but I do like collecting all the champs. I can't ever imagine going for any 6-star or the 5-star featured champion. Those who do grind for them, God bless you! I couldn't do it.

GroundedWisdom

GroundedWisdom said:

madeofhatemcoc said:

As a new cavalier player with not that many champions, I managed to collect just 5 million points in the stadium. This corresponds to a reward of 3250 grandmaster shards and 65 units. My rank: 16634. That corresponds to 500x 5 * shards.

That should be a reward for a Cavalier who had to work like crazy to get only 5 million points in a stadium together?

This is sheer madness that you have caused with these new stages. The programmers at Kabam have no idea about the calculation. I am very upset about this incompetence

I got the same for 9 Mil, so it seems the gaps are large.

*Mind you, I stopped at the 4* by choice. I'm just pointing out that there are large groupings.

DBLR_989

Grinded 115 million in 6 star arena...thanks for helping me decide to quit this game. It's obvious that arenas are solely made for those with the biggest rosters now. There's no way in hell that ANYONE should grind up 115 million points over a weekend and miss the cutoff for a 6 star. That's way too much time and effort placed for a 5 star. I'm a spender in this game whose roster of 6 stars is just under 40 champs, so there's no way for guys like me to compete with guys with over 100 6 stars. Grinding for these 6 stars would be the only way to try increase that pool. After this weekends grind, I realize that's no longer possible as I do not see myself wanting to grind for over 100 million+ points again. Thanks Kabam. You've lost another paying customer from your player base.

OwGss

Waaay too much effort for a +1 5* sig since I already own him... least let it be a true dupe and iso and 275 shards on top... sure 1k 6* is not bad but considering the massive pool and 10% of random mediocre pull I’ll get... never again...

Searmenis

BigBadWolf said:

Good job this is ridiculous

Absolutely. And to think that a few months ago, Kabam deleted fraud accounts that spammed 60-70M for top rank

Gamer

OwGss said:

Waaay too much effort for a +1 5* sig since I already own him... least let it be a true dupe and iso and 275 shards on top... sure 1k 6* is not bad but considering the massive pool and 10% of random mediocre pull I’ll get... never again...

U grind for a dups u knew it wil only be a basice so it perfectly fine

Rap

When the previous arena ended i almost always ended up with at least 1100 5 star shards. AND THAT! Dear friends, IS THE VERY AND ONLY REASON kabam changed these arenas.!
How many times have the champ arenas been modified while the side arenas remain the same garbage arenas they have been for years???
And maybe you should devote more attention to glitches and game functionality and less on how to xxxx f2p summoners! That would be good! Huh? How bout dat?

CatoFong

Money makes the world go round, world go round, world go round...

Kabam takes all their money to the casino and decides to play roulette and put everyone on black. Paying customers, double up your spending cause the other half is walking away.

MAERvelGOD

Plato92 said:

This new feature and basic arena are cool. Yes there are more milestones but you have to think the game is progressing too and has to change with us. Some of y’all might not like the change but it is needed. Now we get both a 3* and 4* in milestones rewards so that is worth some praise because that eliminated two arenas for the featured champ and one for the basic champ. There is more gold and more battle chips so those of us who complained about not having enough gold can’t complain anymore. Yes it took me over 100 fight to get all the milestones in the featured arena but I was able to do it with minimal effort and was able to keep my streak going till I had all milestones.

so how many R3 6* Champs and Maxed R5 5* Champs do you have? I'm guessing a good amount because that's the ONLY way you could do that, which puts you in the SUPER MINORITY that this favors, thus why almost literally every post is people that HATE it, even many who are Cavalier or Thonebreaker

ClumsyNew

You dumb. Instead making it obvious you're devaluing units you shouldn't cut into peoples' time in the process.

Here's a smart idea. Make units more spendable and put some content to make them spendable. Pump out 7* and get some decent content out for people to spend their units rather than slow down economy...

MAERvelGOD

BigBadWolf said:

Yea im done with this. Zero motivation

Same...

@Mrddr they already are.... I did.... deleted the game Thursday night and won't go back if this isn't addressed fairly to the average typical player

This change was not a QOL, unless you're a whale with a huge max 5* and R3 6* roster

MAERvelGOD

Monk1 said:

Finished with 9 hours to spare.. Sunday is a day off from game for me.

thanks Kabam for finally giving me something to use my whole roster on rather than finishing in a day

Now hopefully secure 1.5k 6* shards and be very happy. Go again on Monday

Just a whale who doesn't care about the community as a whole..... maybe Kabam is hiring... you should apply Monk1

MAERvelGOD

BigBadWolf said:

Good job this is ridiculous

Yes, it is but it's not unexpected

I predicted 125-150M

Snuggzy

I'm not blessed with a great roster, so used to do 4* basic, achieve all milestones, and do enough to guarantee the 4* champion and 300 5* shards, alongside doing just enough in the 5* arena to guarantee 500 5* shards.

With the new setup, however, I had to dedicate my time solely to one arena. I chose 6* basic, so that I could still be guaranteed the 4*. I ensured that my effort remained the same, and finished in the percentile which provided 500 5* shards. This means that I'm 300 shards light of a regular grind, plus down a bunch of units.

It now feels like all the hard work was for nothing, as I'm sure others will agree.

Darth_Saint

The cutoff for the 6 star version of Shang-Chi was 129,000,000+. Everyone below that missed out on the 6-star version of Shang-Chi. No other cutoff for a featured arena has ever reached 90,000,000. If this is what we can expect going forward, I’m done with arenas. Kabam should expand the number of summoners who receive the 6 star version of the champ (top 150 at least) and the 5 star version (top 1000). Give us incentive to push through that godawful grind.

Monk1

MAERvelGOD said:

Monk1 said:

Finished with 9 hours to spare.. Sunday is a day off from game for me.

thanks Kabam for finally giving me something to use my whole roster on rather than finishing in a day

Now hopefully secure 1.5k 6* shards and be very happy. Go again on Monday

Just a whale who doesn't care about the community as a whole..... maybe Kabam is hiring... you should apply Monk1

😂 far from a whale.. I don’t spend, just maximise what’s available in the game.

Less time moaning and more time getting the skills for end game content will see you r accounts grow

Joker1976

Monk1 said:

MAERvelGOD said:

Monk1 said:

Finished with 9 hours to spare.. Sunday is a day off from game for me.

thanks Kabam for finally giving me something to use my whole roster on rather than finishing in a day

Now hopefully secure 1.5k 6* shards and be very happy. Go again on Monday

Just a whale who doesn't care about the community as a whole..... maybe Kabam is hiring... you should apply Monk1

😂 far from a whale.. I don’t spend, just maximise what’s available in the game.

Less time moaning and more time getting the skills for end game content will see you r accounts grow

Omg bro stop going on about moaning ,..you end game players are always crying about something. “This variants way to easy cause I’m such a hot shot cause I did it blindfolded .

This is a issue that mainly benefits end game players and impacts the rest of the community negatively ,...don’t see that as moaning there bud .

hungryhungrybbq

Joker1976 said:

Monk1 said:

MAERvelGOD said:

Monk1 said:

Finished with 9 hours to spare.. Sunday is a day off from game for me.

thanks Kabam for finally giving me something to use my whole roster on rather than finishing in a day

Now hopefully secure 1.5k 6* shards and be very happy. Go again on Monday

Just a whale who doesn't care about the community as a whole..... maybe Kabam is hiring... you should apply Monk1

😂 far from a whale.. I don’t spend, just maximise what’s available in the game.

Less time moaning and more time getting the skills for end game content will see you r accounts grow

Omg bro stop going on about moaning ,..you end game players are always crying about something. “This variants way to easy cause I’m such a hot shot cause I did it blindfolded .

This is a issue that mainly benefits end game players and impacts the rest of the community negatively ,...don’t see that as moaning there bud .

While I'm not taking anyone's side here. I can agree with Monk on one thing. The term "whale" is being tossed around way too loosely and erroneously all the time here. People seem to throw that term out (sometimes hatefully) for anyone who is more successful in the game than they are. I'm also tired of it. I'm not a whale, but I have a great account. And it's from grinding content for 4 years. Nice account doesn't equal whale... It often equals someone who put in hard work for years.

Oakenshield

OK back to provide round 2 of feedback now that I’ve wrapped up the grind and rewards have been distributed. My round 1 of feedback was balanced. After the past few days my round 2 is less so. Definitely a lot more work for parity on shards and a fairly significant reduction in chips and units as many others are seeing.

For perspective, I’m a relatively new player (10 months) and have invested significant time as well as money over that time. I made cavalier about 2 months ago and feel like I’ve got a solid roster after the investments - 89 5*s, 14 of which are rank 4+ and 18 6*s - all of which are R1 since the RNG has been much less friendly for my 6* roster vs. my 5*. While I’m not a whale, I have invested enough $ that I’m probably in the tier just below whale.

What has worked for me over that time is that I could get reasonable roster progression between arena, monthly events, and story content. I could then invest $ for significant accelerators or to plug holes in my roster. This mix of time and $ investment worked for me and has allowed me to make good progress quickly. The Arenas were a major contributor to units, shards, gold, as well as iso via the dupes from the shards.

The new format definitely reduces my ability to progress at the rate I have been without investing substantially more time or $. I definitely am not willing to invest $ if that is the only way to progress. My roster is such that I can establish but not maintain an infinite streak unless I leave the bulk of my 5*s sitting on the bench, which greatly reduces the amount of points I can put on the board unless I’m willing to take a bunch of death matches and keep starting the streak over again, which was a key reason it took a lot more time to put up the same results.

So, from my end, while I probably won’t quit I definitely will be spending less time in the arenas unless a better solution is found. Since I’m not willing to accept a spend as the only path to progression model, I’ll spend less overall time playing and will definitely spend far less $ - particularly in the upcoming July event. Kabam, its your content so your call. If you are making your revenue and player engagement targets, all good. That said, I’m guessing players like me - future end gamers who are willing to invest a more substantial amount of $ - are your 2nd priority behind the whales, so maybe you will take this under consideration.

For the community - Kabam is going to do what makes the most sense for them - this is all about self interest. They are going to want to maximize revenue and player engagement. The reason they have noted they aren’t going to immediately shift to something else despite the complaints is that they are probably looking at their numbers from this weekend and seeing increase player engagement, and importantly highly increased engagement from their most valuable target - the whales. Yes, they are also seeing complaints but in a perverse way that also is an indicator of player engagement so not a 100% bad thing. I’d don’t think anyone should expect them to make any additional changes unless they see a reduction in player engagement and/or revenue. Since this weekend was probably big as everyone jumped in to try it out/give it a shot, that means the real driver is what happens in the next 2-3 arenas. If they see a big drop off, then they are going to be willing to make some additional changes. If not, they will have correctly assessed that the player base will complain but then just adapt and move on. As such, I for one am going to make sure they see less engagement and $ from me over the next 1-2 weeks since the new model doesn’t work for me. Up to you all how you want to respond, but the $$ and player engagement metrics are the ones that will move the needle with them so consider that as you vote with your time and $ in the coming weeks.