Why is America Chavez so bad?

Doctor_Strange19Doctor_Strange19 Member Posts: 255 ★★★
in General Discussion
When I read America’s abilities for the first time, she seemed really cool! Her dimensions were a really cool concept, and I hoped the damage would match. Unfortunately, when we saw her gameplay, her damage was only sort of there, and her utility was near-nonexistent. But why is her utility so bad? America Chavez doesn’t have any buffs or debuffs on her base kit.

Buffs and debuffs interact with so many nodes and champions in the game, and a lot of those interactions are positive for the attacker. Those that are negative, like Masochism and Buffet, can be triggered on Parry and Dex, so having no buffs or debuffs on a champions kit almost never is a benefit (except for Red Guardian, but he can’t gain the Dex buff anyways).

So which champions don’t have any native buffs or debuffs on their base kit? Here’s a list:

Rogue
Stryfe
Karnak(?)
America Chavez

However, Rogue can steal buffs, so she can still gain buffs, just not with her own abilities. Stryfe has plenty of passives that are functionally similar to debuffs, and I’m not sure about Karnak because who plays Karnak?

My point is, America Chavez not having any buffs or debuffs is why she’s so light on utility. If she would get a moderate buff, I would love to see her dimensions gain debuff effects, similar to Sorcerer Supreme.

Thanks for reading! Have a fantastic day!
«1

Comments

  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,250 ★★★★★
    I actually really like her the burst is quite nice easy rotation has some utility since can control power gain champs can be unblockable has some regen
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,803 ★★★★★
    edited July 2021
    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    SpideyFunko said:

    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    Last year was the year of failed cosmics. (on release)

    This year is turning out to be the year of failed mystics.

    My man

    Don't disrespect my man
    yeah CGR came out in 2020
    shush, go beat 6.2 champion
    Unfortunately he already has. He should go and beat GM.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Member Posts: 21,955 ★★★★★
    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    SpideyFunko said:

    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    Last year was the year of failed cosmics. (on release)

    This year is turning out to be the year of failed mystics.

    My man

    Don't disrespect my man
    yeah CGR came out in 2020
    shush, go beat 6.2 champion
    Done
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,803 ★★★★★
    SpideyFunko said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    SpideyFunko said:

    ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

    The_Sentry06 said:

    Last year was the year of failed cosmics. (on release)

    This year is turning out to be the year of failed mystics.

    My man

    Don't disrespect my man
    yeah CGR came out in 2020
    shush, go beat 6.2 champion
    Unfortunately he already has. He should go and beat GM.
    I broke my hand playing is hard

    so is typing but that is easier than the game
    Ouch hope it's well soon.

  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 4,008 Guardian
    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
  • Malreck04Malreck04 Member Posts: 3,334 ★★★★★
    I think there is a pretty decent chance she will get a damage upgrade in the future like Odin, because she does have some cool mechanics.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,803 ★★★★★
    BuggyDClown said:

    Every champ can't be OP or beyond god tier. Idk when most of the players will understand it. She's ok but not bad like OG avengers.

    There's a large grey area in between Amerca Chavez currently and champs like CGR, Hercules and Omega. Her wierd-ish utility does not come close to justifying her damage output imo.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 4,008 Guardian
    Saiyan said:

    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    This is 100% true. Look how many people thought and STILL think IHulk is bad cuz videos of him come out not doing so good cuz people didn't know how to use him. Not ever champ has to be CGR, Mags, Apoc, etc etc. Some champs CAN be just good. That's it. Just good. They don't have to be "BEYOND GOD TIER MEGA DAMAGE!!11!!!!!!11!!!!!" all the time.

    SO many champs get overlooked due to this mindset. Even champs who get buffed if they don't LOOK impressive in a few videos in a FEW situations then players over look them. They aren't even shown in so much other places to shine. Vulture is an example of a buff done right. Dude got more damage and MUCH more utility yet people treat him like pre buffed Vulture for "being bad".
    I've been championing YJ for a long time because of it. CCP members think that he sucks because he doesnt give big yellow numbers but if folks actually try him out they will see how much damage he can dish out. He is one of the best buffs given to a single champ.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,443 ★★★★★
    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    Even Silver Surfer suffers (that’s a tongue twister) from this. When I pulled him and then duped him I thought he was just purely a prestige champ and wasn’t any good. Then I played with him and he wrecked house and was a blast to play. Took him to r3 and never regretted it.

    There are tons of champions in this tier. No big yellow (or red) numbers, but still plenty of consistent damage and extremely solid utility. But most importantly, mechanically very fun to play. Gotta try them all to see what you like. Except Psycho Man. Buff that man, he’s worthless.
  • ChikelChikel Member Posts: 2,108 ★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    Even Silver Surfer suffers (that’s a tongue twister) from this. When I pulled him and then duped him I thought he was just purely a prestige champ and wasn’t any good. Then I played with him and he wrecked house and was a blast to play. Took him to r3 and never regretted it.

    There are tons of champions in this tier. No big yellow (or red) numbers, but still plenty of consistent damage and extremely solid utility. But most importantly, mechanically very fun to play. Gotta try them all to see what you like. Except Psycho Man. Buff that man, he’s worthless.
    Silver Surfer's problem is the practicality of his playstle and how much you need the AI to co-operate at just the right time. Outside of situations where you get shock, incenerate or coldsnap applied to you, building up his buffs is a pain.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Member Posts: 7,803 ★★★★★
    Chikel said:

    Wicket329 said:

    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    Even Silver Surfer suffers (that’s a tongue twister) from this. When I pulled him and then duped him I thought he was just purely a prestige champ and wasn’t any good. Then I played with him and he wrecked house and was a blast to play. Took him to r3 and never regretted it.

    There are tons of champions in this tier. No big yellow (or red) numbers, but still plenty of consistent damage and extremely solid utility. But most importantly, mechanically very fun to play. Gotta try them all to see what you like. Except Psycho Man. Buff that man, he’s worthless.
    Silver Surfer's problem is the practicality of his playstle and how much you need the AI to co-operate at just the right time. Outside of situations where you get shock, incenerate or coldsnap applied to you, building up his buffs is a pain.
    His playstyle is pretty practical. Just use a heavy when you first have the power gain, build to a sp1 and use it when you have a fury and then use your heavy again when you an armor up rotating under the grey icon. Then just use your heavy once your power gain buff is gone and spam sp2. It may sound complex but it's a lot easier once you actually do it. His phase allows him to use his heavy whenever you want even if the opponent has a special ready.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,443 ★★★★★
    The_Sentry06 said:

    Chikel said:

    Wicket329 said:

    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    Even Silver Surfer suffers (that’s a tongue twister) from this. When I pulled him and then duped him I thought he was just purely a prestige champ and wasn’t any good. Then I played with him and he wrecked house and was a blast to play. Took him to r3 and never regretted it.

    There are tons of champions in this tier. No big yellow (or red) numbers, but still plenty of consistent damage and extremely solid utility. But most importantly, mechanically very fun to play. Gotta try them all to see what you like. Except Psycho Man. Buff that man, he’s worthless.
    Silver Surfer's problem is the practicality of his playstle and how much you need the AI to co-operate at just the right time. Outside of situations where you get shock, incenerate or coldsnap applied to you, building up his buffs is a pain.
    His playstyle is pretty practical. Just use a heavy when you first have the power gain, build to a sp1 and use it when you have a fury and then use your heavy again when you an armor up rotating under the grey icon. Then just use your heavy once your power gain buff is gone and spam sp2. It may sound complex but it's a lot easier once you actually do it. His phase allows him to use his heavy whenever you want even if the opponent has a special ready.
    Yup, this is the rotation I’ve been using and it’s never been impractical (except against miss counters, which is why I’m not thrilled by the proliferation of True Focus nodes). Only thing I’d add is that in long fights I’ll add an sp3 into the rotation to get that aptitude going.
  • slackerslacker Member Posts: 781 ★★★★
    Saiyan said:

    pseudosane said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I don't really buy your argument. How many situations other than Buffed Up reward you for having buffs on your? A lot fewer than situations which punish you for them.

    Similarly, there are a lot more situations or opponents who punish you for inflicting debuffs than reward them.

    Presumably you've been watching YouTube or something? Why not actually try fighting with her yourself before you come to this conclusion?

    • She can endlessly spam SP1s whilst generating her own power.
    • Reduce or invert the effectiveness of many of the commonest buffs
    • Reduce or invert the opponent's Power Gain effects (two heavy attacks and this is done: that's fast!)
    • Reflect damage back to the opponent like Electro
    • Punish opponents with lots of buffs with a damage boost like Ronan does
    • Chain Heavy attacks after a combo like Wasp
    • Regenerate whilst throwing Unblockable SP2s
    I mean she may not be the next Dr Doom. But this are definite abilities. Part of the issue is that several are defensive and you'll only see them work if you get hit - if you're a skilled endgame player (or a Youtuber apart from Prof Hoff) you probably don't get hit much; so don't see the benefit of inverting your opponents Fury, Precision and Cruelty buffs. For me, that's a lot less chip damage, and a lot less punishment if I mess up.

    Try fighting an opponent on a 90% Armour node, which you've inverted into a -30% Armour node, coincidentally giving you +25% Attack; then say she's got no utility.
    The thing is with the CCP is that generally, if a champion doesn’t excel and isn’t the best champ of the year/doesn’t have huge yellow numbers then there’s no hype for them.

    This isn’t a dig at anyone it’s just a fact. Most CCP members in their videos will take them for a spin in RoL or a path or two in act 6 or 7 and only show that. (They more than likely test more but don’t show it). The truth is, while CCP videos are very helpful to see what a champion can do, at the end of the day, it’s much better to think about their abilities and make your own decision about whether they’re good.

    But this leads me onto a separate issue, it’s too long before the average player starts getting new champions, and by the time we do, the opinion of a champion in the communities mind has been set pretty strongly. And that’s hard to change.

    Jubilee, Overseer and Chavez are just some examples of victims of this. I’ve already seen many times in chats I’m in, someone pulls one of them and says Damn why am I so unlucky to pull this dud. But would be happy to pull BWDO or Red Guardian or someone in a similar level of use in the game. And the reason of this is that it can take up to 90 days for a champion to be available for the wider game base. Many people don’t open featured 6* crystals, and even more don’t open Cavs.

    So the first chance to pull Chavez and really test her out, will be in October. And the opinion of her is already set by the CCP as a bad champion. I think she looks like she can do some decent stuff, and she can be a more on the niche side rank up for some end game players if you enjoy her. The issue is she’s been ragged on from an end game players perspective as not doing anything new or better, and therefore useless. Which is simply not true. She can quickly and easily shut down passive power gain, what if you don’t have/like void? That’s not useless to me.

    This seems to be a perennial issue. People take the word of others and refuse to form their own opinions. A lot of current day issues seem to be like that, in RL too. Lol.
    This is 100% true. Look how many people thought and STILL think IHulk is bad cuz videos of him come out not doing so good cuz people didn't know how to use him. Not ever champ has to be CGR, Mags, Apoc, etc etc. Some champs CAN be just good. That's it. Just good. They don't have to be "BEYOND GOD TIER MEGA DAMAGE!!11!!!!!!11!!!!!" all the time.

    SO many champs get overlooked due to this mindset. Even champs who get buffed if they don't LOOK impressive in a few videos in a FEW situations then players over look them. They aren't even shown in so much other places to shine. Vulture is an example of a buff done right. Dude got more damage and MUCH more utility yet people treat him like pre buffed Vulture for "being bad".
    1000% agree on Vulture, this man just melt any power gain match up, another champ who suffer same case is Overseer, same stuff as Silver Suffer, ppl judge him as character more than gameplay, he's actually really fun to play.
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